well here is my latest and greatest...<p>Last night We were watching Everybody love Raymond and my H asked me if I had talked to my friend Sue (she is the only one who really knows everything about what's going on in my life) and told her what we had talked about Saturday. I told him, Yeah we talked a little so he asked me "what did she think?" I just told him that she was Sad for me and just wanted to see me happy again. so I'm sitting there trying not to cry and he looks over about 10 minutes later and asks "what's wrong?" I get Mad! I tell him that you know its one thing if you want out but don't make a joke of our lives - You know this isn't what I want and I cant stop you but I don't want you to make fun. He actually apologized and told me that he was just kidding - I was like, yeah right! and that I understood about wanting life to be different, and needing to change a few things but I just couldn't understand how he could want to throw our whole life together away! So after that I go take a bath, when I come out he tells me again that he is sorry that he doesn't mean to hurt me. So we goto bed and I lean over and give him a kiss - we are laying there and once again he tells me that he is really sorry and that he really hasn't given up hope yet and that I need to be patient with him, with tears in my voice I tell him - I know, and the fact that your still hear gives me hope. He then asks me if I want to have sex? I was like wow - because one of his things has been that he wants me to initiate everything so he hasn't been doing it and he actually kisses me after... Ok so do I take this as good that there may be a ray of light under all this fog or is it him saying goodbye? <p>oh yeah and this morning he actually came in the bathroom to say goodbye before he left.<p>So to sum it all up, I don't know what to think when just 4 days ago he was telling me that he is 80% wanting to leave and 20% wanting to stay but he would let me know after he gets back from his 2 weeks in the reserves what he wants to do - Move out or stay and work on our M. Please let me off the rollercoaster I think I'm getting sick!!!

Chin up! <p>Unfortunately your ride has just begun. There will be many times of uncertainty, even after proclaiming your desire to work things out. It's part of the road ahead. A lot of my uncertainty was spent in the months that my husband knew, but didn't know for sure about the affair. When it all came out and I knew where I wanted to be, it was his turn to be uncertain at times. <p>Be patient, and hang on to the good things (kisses, his initiation, morning good-byes, etc.). It will take time, but with dedication and commitment it is possible. He may want you to initiate things, but in time, when he sees it's natural for you to initiate, it will just happen that one or the other will do it and it won't matter. It will be habit and natural for both of you (my husband had the same request about initiating). Once he sees that you are comfortable with him and initiating things (like sex) he will again become more and more comfortable with you.<p>All is not lost. Understand his confusion, and acknowledge it as you would want him to acknowledge yours. Encourage him that you want the marriage to work and that you not only believe in the "us" but you believe in "him" too. His 2 weeks in the reserves will give him valuable thinking time. <p>Keep believing, and keep being positive toward him and the relationship. I hope this helps some. Take care and I wish you the best.

rd,<p>No great insight into what is happening in your H's head, but I can tell you that I went through the same torture. He'd act like I was the love of his life one day and then the next like I was something he scraped off his shoe. The best thing to do while he's going through his vacillation is to keep yourself as centered as possible so you will survive the rollercoaster. Believe me, you'll be on it whether he's there or not. I remember well what I went through at the end of my last M and getting rid of my ex-H didn't get rid of the emotional rollercoaster ride.<p>Having been through divorce once already, I'm able to see the value of the Plan A/Plan B sequence for me even if I'm heading for divorce again. Plan A prepares you for Plan B, and Plan B prepares you for divorce. Plan A and Plan B also prepare you for marital recovery, and the reason is because you are learning a different lifestyle that will serve your best interest whether you are married or single.<p>I know how hard it is, but eventually you will reach a point where you will connect with yourself so well that you will no longer be so invested in what HE thinks of you, how he sees you, how he treats you, because what you think of yourself, how you see yourself, and how you treat yourself will be good enough so that you don't NEED that reflected sense of self anymore. Just keep trying to connect with your core self and hold onto yourself. You'll be okay. You have the strength to make it through.

I was doing a great plan A until he told me that "he wasnt sorry" for the A - That he felt guilty but not sorry - Then about 3 days later after I had been being a total "Bitc*" for that time he asks me what has been wrong with me - Why have I been acting this way - So I told him, I just needed a little bit of hope to keep trying and he just couldnt give it to me - that if he had been sorry I could go on, he actually looked at me that said "well, I told you that I was sorry and guilty" I was like - NO - you said you werent sorry to which he replied, "I dont remember saying that" ohmygod!!!!! He crushed me and doesnt even remember it. So now I'm back to Plan A, trying to make all the days up until he leaves for the reserves good ones so maybe, just maybe he will realize what a good thing we have......<p>Hey it cant hurt to hope -right?

My husband, too, at one point has said that he feels guilty and knows A was wrong, but that he thinks it was "supposed to happen." In other words, I didn't hear any "I'm sorry it happened."<p>It sucks, but I hope it will get better. I'll be hoping for you, too :-)

thanks Dani - Isnt it amazing that there memories can go - They remember what works for them - Every sistuation in our lives he has managed to turn into something bad - I had a card he had given me about 4 years ago for my birthday - we had moved back to MI on my b-day from GA and had to do it over 4 days (everything from packing the old house, driving up here and unpacking everything in the new house) and then he had to be back in GA right after, it was when we were in the process of getting out of the Army - anyways in the card he was telling me how much he loved me and missed me and that our move was crazy and how no one could believe we got it all done in that amount of time - I gave him the card to read and he didnt see any of the fun we had on that trip or the adventure - All he said was "you *****ed the whole time" and I dont remember it that way at all... <p>Wow - I guess they just have selective memeory problems..

I think it's easier for them to deal with what they've done if they remember all the bad stuff we've done. <p>Lately, I've brought up a couple of good memories I have of when we dated, just to remind him of how much in love we were then. This song played on the radio the other day, "Angel" by Aerosmith, and I remembered that we were dancing to that song when I realized I was in love with him. So I told him. I have always had a hard time sharing my good feelings; fear of rejection I guess. But I'm going to share them now. Anyway, I don't mention things like the song all the time, cuz then he'd think I was trying to pressure him, but when I do mention something nice about our past, he seems to like it. Maybe because I'm not hiding behind apathy anymore.<p>So, I guess what I'm saying is maybe mention something good that you remember about the trip or whatever you guys are talking about, just to jog his memory a little. Then maybe he'd remember the good, too.<p>Sorry...I'm not good at being short and to the point. I sometimes tell a whole story and hope at the end that I even made a point :-)

Dani - You sound a lot like me - I cant just say something with a few words- I write the whole book... oh well hopefully people understand where I was going eventually.<p>I have always had the fear of rejection also (mostly sexually)- and to be honest I have no idea why - infact it has been one of the things my H mentioned that he wanted us to work on - He has always felt that he had to initate everything in our relationship and that I would never turn him down but he didnt want to the only one who started things - I have been trying to do this more but unfortunately the fear is worse now because of the whole A thing but I'm not letting that stop me!<p>I'm working on me daily and have realized that I'm a much stronger person than I was even a few months ago and that if he leaves I will be ok - that I love him and want him in my life but I dont need him!

The thing that bothers me the most (besides the A, of course) is the emotional highs and lows that I'm having. One day, I'm thinking "I can do this, I'm strong, I'll be okay," and the next day I fall apart and wish I could just disappear. I really don't think of much else besides this situation now, and it's a wonder I'm doing my job okay.<p>Strangely, it makes me feel better to know that there are others going thru the same thing.

I feel the same way - its a good thing I have understanding bosses or I wouldnt have a job anymore. the highs and lows for no reason! Somedays I'm very strong and think I can do anything and others I feel like I'm going to die and fall apart.

One thing that helped me with the highs and lows was, when I had a low day I would say to myself "goodie a good day is just around the corner" and it always is, thats the thing about a coaster it is not flat! of course I rolled my eyes when I said that but.....

Sad - I actually just sent you a message on MAW's thread - <p>I dont know how to link it but I will copy it here.<p>Jen<p>Sad,
I know your a friend of MAW's and I saw your signature line and saw that you FWH still works with his OW - I need advice on how to deal with this - MY FWH still works with OW but they do not talk (at least that is what I've been told) but I still have the constant worry and fears...She called if off (after I called her H) but I cant get over the "what if she wants him back?" question. I know my WH still cares about her - I was on-line the other night and saw that he had checked her Horoscope, it kills me everytime I think about it...Open to suggestions?

up!

This is going to be very easy for me to ask. but he is in a place it sounds where he is confused about what he wants to do. I would not have a clue exactly what he would be confused about, but it seems everyone that has a affair gets confused about these things. In the mean time we are so hurt that we just want them back, and we try so hard to get them to come back. I believe it is a combination of wanting back what was so horribly taken from us, our marriage. Wanting to know that our spouse of so many years desired and loved us more then someone else, and in the long run they would come back to us. Being scared of being alone and having to start over in so many ways. Also a number of other things. Because of our fear of these things I think we do everything in our power to try to get the spouse back and in the long run push them away. I think you have to face all your fears about potentially not having a relationship with your husband. Write them down on a piece of paper, and spend some time thinking about them, and what really would happen. After you face these fears, hopefully you will realize that you could survive and get on with your life with or without your spouse. You would feel alot of pain in not understanding, but you would realize no matter what type of things happened in your relationship, the choice of a spouse to have a affair is completely unacceptable, and that spouse has some issues they need to deal with above any of your issues to make things work. The other things could have been worked through separation or counselling before the affair started. Once you look at the world from the other side, you will know that you can make it, you can be happy, and you will start to look forward to the future. At this point your spouse will feel the pressure start to drop off, realize that you are at the point you can make it yourself, and they will be more likely to want to work things out with you, or decide to just go away. Either choice is okay at this point, because you will know that with or without them your life can be satisfactory. This is how I feel I have been handling my wifes affair. I see no evidence she will come back, but I have looked the future in face without her, while raising five kids and working, and most of the time I can say "I am looking forward to what tomorrow brings, be it good or bad." I have bad days, but I know that my wife had an affair only partly because of me, but mainly because she couldn't handle all that was going on in our life. I know that if I meet or don't meet life that I will continue to enjoy it, and the fact that my wife may never come back to me no matter how ignorant things she may say at times does not mean the guy she chose is a better person, or has more to offer then me. I know I made some mistakes, but nothing that justifies her doing what she did, and I will not carry her guilt around with me ever. At present she is a long way from me physically and mentally, but who knows what will happen a year from now, I don't know where I will be or where she will be, but I know that I can make it with or without her. Hope this helps.

Lost in space,
you are so right, I will print your post and try to do some of the facing the future things today. I am still plan aing soon to move to plan b July 6, WH picked sept. but in need to be the one to make the decision. I have a thing about everything always being done to me. I need to take charge of me and the decisions that effect me and mine (kids) He chose to have an A, he doesn't get to make all the decisions about our life now. I will not wait for him to come out of the fog forever, it is actually making me angry now that he expects me to just be there when ever he gets mad enough at this OW to not talk to her any more and decides he wants to make it with me. and like he says it will happen eventually. GOLLY what a moron. I refuse to be second, and he only comes back to me because they can't get along. I think i will start on my plan b letter. It will take me a month to write it im sure. thanks for the help.

You know the thing that frightens me almost more than him leaving and being alone is the money issue - We are just scrapping by together and I worry daily how the heck are we going to make it? I have realized that it will work out but god it scares me.<p>My counselor told me that I'm doing good, being very supportive, more so than most people would be at this point. My H has decided that his counseling is not working, that she is focused on his childhood, thinks that everything that is wrong with him is because of what happen to him as a kid (lots of abuse), I can agree that what happen to him has had influence on who he is and how he is handleing things right now but I dont think that is why he is doing these things. So he told his counselor that he will comeback on last time - she wants him to write a letter to his father forgiving him for the past, My H has agreed to do this but really how does this help me? It doesnt! My H has said that he "might" want to try talking to my Counselor becauses I seem much better since I've been seeing her. This is encouraging but I will have to wait and see what happens until after he comes back from the reserves in June.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Lost in space:
<strong> the choice of a spouse to have a affair is completely unacceptable, and that spouse has some issues they need to deal with above any of your issues to make things work. The other things could have been worked through separation or counselling before the affair started.<p>I know I made some mistakes, but nothing that justifies her doing what she did, and I will not carry her guilt around with me ever. </strong><hr></blockquote><p>Lost,<p>Your post really hit me today. On the way home I was thinking to myself that I need to stop apologizing for being my H's victim. Not that I've done this verbally, but for so long my demeanor has been kind of apologetic for needing what I need as a result of his infidelity, and it is not doing our R any good.<p>OF COURSE I need him to choose me over the OW's workplace! OF COURSE I need to see evidence of empathy and insight from him! OF COURSE I need him to follow the extraordinary precautions! OF COURSE I need us to follow a plan of recovery! Anybody and everybody who's been through what I have needs these things. There's nothing strange or unusual about my reactions to what he's done to me and the M. There would be something wrong with me if I DIDN'T need these things.

rdvpmm - I hope you can continue to look at what your life will be without your spouse. As cruel as that sounds you will relax alot more when you do truly come to believe you can do things on your own again. You will find that his disappointments will not hurt you as much as they do right now, based on this he will feel you start to relax. This will not in anyway make things work or not, because he has his own issues to work on, and as you start to fell you can make it on your own, you will start to question if you want to be in the relationship. All I can say is whatever happens life deals us some very bad times, and some good times. It is very easy to wreck a good tiem with something bad, but it is alot easier to take a bad time and make it something good. These are things you can do for yourself by knowing that you can get over anything and survive and find happiness again however things turn out.
Conqueror - You are so right that you have the right to feel all the emotions and want the things you do, but at the same time wanting those things top much without looking at what your life is going to be like without them will only continue to cause you pain. I hope you can continue to know what you need in your relationshjip or what you need to make it work, but at the same time know you did not do something wrong here that made him go ot and have a affair. If anyone tells you that, or if you beleive that then you will carry that for a long time. If a relationship dosen;t work, both partners have equal responsibility, but when one steps outside of the marriage that person is 100% accountable for their actions, adn they gave up on the marriage because they didn't have what it took to face the problems and work on the problems. My wife is the living example of this, when she walked away, she aditted that she was giving up, and didn't know what to do. she had lots of choices to handle this in a civil wau that we both would have come to understand, be that a good result or a bad result. Don't ever beat yourself up for what your spouse did, rather realize you have the abiltiy to handle things they don't, and they are the week one.

rdvppm,
I am running off to work now so have to be brief. Please look for the thread on OW working together, it might be in recovery.
Anyway it has a few of us who's H continue to work with the OW. Leilana, LOR, and lostva, to name a few.I think the consensus is - it can work but it is so much harder and you will pay a higher price for a longer time..
Hope this helps.
L

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Lost in space:
<strong> they gave up on the marriage because they didn't have what it took to face the problems and work on the problems. My wife is the living example of this, when she walked away, she aditted that she was giving up, and didn't know what to do.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>My H's explanation for how he got caught up in the A is that he considered himself single and me as his ex-W that he was giving all his money to. He's never answered my question as to why I never received the memo letting me know *I* was single as well--why he gave HIMSELF permission to be single, but forced me to remain married to a ghost. "If I was your ex-W, wouldn't that make me single, too? Why wasn't I allowed to know I'd been dumped?"