I am getting to a stage where I am desperate. 26/7 will be 6 months since d-day. H has moved out, I have plan A'd and got good results. He moved out of the house and rents in the city - he says he is committed to it till Sept.

Things went cold last week when I suggested to him that he may need to make a couple of changes if we get back together. Since then he's been foggy.

I'm pretty sure the A is still going. I have a suspicion there is more than one. He says he's confused, dosen't know what he wants. Things were looking really hopefull then went cold.

I have thought about plan B for a while. I have the letter written. I need to sell my house and do all that at the same time. I can't manage it by myself, and H says either way, he will never live there again.

When the house sells, I was thinking to do plan B from then as I can do a financial split and live with dad temporarily.

The problems I am concerned about:

Have I proven to H that I can change? How much is enough? I am satisfied that I have identified problems that occurred. I am working on me and have let go of H. I have thought about making a new life for myself. I often think of life without H but I love him and want him. I want my marriage and I think that I have done all I can to save it. I am becoming inpatient. I am hurting very badly and cannot put on weight because of stress. I lost mum 2 months ago and its added to the burden. I am coping well, but I don't think I can continue like this. I don't know whether what I feel is temporary or if its a slow decline.

What if it takes a year to sell the house? I can't continue on like this.

Help, please, anyone who has been in this situation can you give me advice. How did you do it? I need some ideas. I know that no matter what, H may never come back, I'm getting real here guys. 26/7 was my plan A deadline. I want to at least have something in place by then. I have made lists of all the practical stuff I have to do.

I have never told his parents re the A although I think they have guessed. Should I tell them exactly why I am doing this? SHould I tell them?

Please help. I need some support.

SH

Hi fellow Aussie buddy

I wish I had answers or even reasonable suggestions. I am plan A'ing and when it got bad earlier i was ready to plan b, i have a letter too. And I had deadlines. But I decided I hadnt really dealt with the whole thing enough to seriously plan A properly to start with. Like, Id just had a baby and my hormones have only recently returned to normal 3weeks out of 4. I guess when you first go thru separation it takes a bit to get a handle on and I feel that its only now, 15 months and one baby later that i'm able to really plan A with a sound mind, knowing that I like myself, feel in control of my future on my own and being much more aware of my weaknesses and strengths.

I guess most people would tell you to plan b now. I know youre impatient, i am too. But I hope you can hold out for a bit longer. Keep praying for your house to be sold soon. Dont focus on the worst possible senarios unless they happen, cause they havent, and its eating up your precious energy.

Ive decided not to set deadlines anymore as God always seems to turn things around. I'm going really well with WH at the moment .Ive stood back and kept more to myself but I make sure I show an obvious sign of love once a week, no more, no less. And lately hes been taking more interest and showing he cares about how I'm going, plus he seems to be feeling more relaxed around me.

I'll be thinking of you - I hope you ditch your deadline, but I understand its your journey and I'll support you no matter what.

Take care,
Dancer <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

<small>[ July 05, 2002, 05:50 PM: Message edited by: Dancer ]</small>

Hi Seahorse,

I hear your frustration and pain, that's for sure. I'm no expert, but I'll try to answer some of your questions from my own experience...

Q: Have I proven to H that I can change?

If he's said anything that even implies any recognition of your changes, that's a good thing... It's hard to know if you've "proven" it, but just by doing it, living it, behaving strongly, confidently, independently, etc. is all you can do.

Q: How much is enough?

I mentioned this on DL's poll, but you probably should base it on how you're "feeling". I.e., don't jump to Plan B because you expect it to do something to WS. Sure it happens sometimes, but you've really got to be prepared for it to be THE END. If you're not, then I say stay in Plan A... Keep refining your Plan A until you can say "I can't get any better!" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Q: I have thought about making a new life for myself. I often think of life without H

Well... that kind of sounds like you ARE losing your love, and Plan B should be considered.

Q: but I love him and want him

Okay... maybe more Plan A!? You'll never find a cut-and-dry answer to this dilemma. When I switched to Plan B, I realized that yes, I could have probably Plan A'ed longer... at least I could have gone through the motions, said the right things, etc. But my heart was in it less and less. You also need to realize that you SHOULD go to Plan B while you still have a bit of "gas" left in the tank... You don't want to be totally unmotivated, otherwise Plan B will just become a way for you to exit the M.

Q: I am becoming inpatient. I am hurting very badly and cannot put on weight because of stress.

The patience thing is tough... I was in Plan A for 9 months, and have been in Plan B for about 1 month now. And daily I need to remind myself about why I'm in Plan B, still waiting for her to "catch up" to me. It's requiring a new level of patience. The time scale for these things really do drag out, but it comes down to what you're willing to accept. You did set yourself a limit, and you might want to reevaluate where you are at that time.

One interesting thing to ask yourself: Do you think that WH is having his cake and eating it too right now? Are you meeting some of his EN, and OW is meeting others?

If the answer is yes, a long Plan A will buy you less and less over time, I honestly believe. Unless you feel like you could do more / a better Plan A... That's always a tough call. I felt I'd done a so-so one up until about 1-2 months before I left.

I don't know... there's a lot of variables. In the end, I see the statement "but I love him and want him" sticking out... if you can do it, Plan A the best you can for a little longer, maybe. And at this stage, I think that means focusing on making yourself better... If you could start gaining some weight again, that might be a good sign you're turning the corner personally.

Q: Should I tell them exactly why I am doing this? SHould I tell them?

I just dealt with this myself. I told my parents, I let her tell hers. I let her know I was going to tell mine which forced her in a way to tell hers. Now, I don't know what she said to hers. She might have bashed me, but I doubt it - since I know she wants to remain married to me, her bashing me would backfire, take away her "options" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I wouldn't go out of your way to tell the IL's, but if they ask about anything, I'd be open and honest. If things change with WH, you could reevaluate that approach also (e.g. if Dv is started). We're never fixed into a single path here, thankfully.

As for books, my latest suggestion is "The Language of Letting Go"... It's good for any stage of this, Plan A or B.

Take care of yourself!

<small>[ July 04, 2002, 05:09 AM: Message edited by: J.R. ]</small>

Honestly... I dont know... maybe stay away more and when you see him plan a... Modified plan a. I think they need to see what it is like without us... I have seen improvements in my H.. as he truly sees life like this... as a real thing...
But when I do anything hurtful... boy does it hurt... even if I don't answer the phone when he decides to call..

I don't know if I am much help. I would do anything to change my situation and nothing works... it is all about another person... our spouse... and their decidison.s... I guess, be respectful, kind and stay away ... let them have what they want... dont fight.

Hugs and luck, I am sorry it is a hard time for you.

Honey <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Thank you Dancer, JR, Honey..

I am absolutely desperate. I was going along fine till last weekend and now I'm falling apart. I have been a mess most of the week, and I can't stop crying. The pain IS GETTING UNBEARABLE. I'm getting to the point I can't function. I can normally pull myself out of this, but I fear that this is going on too long, and too much this time.

It was two months since mum died last week, I thought that's what its about, but its also about H. I can't see a life for me past him. Everyone says that if he dosen't come back, give up the A then good ridence anyway - so why don't I feel like that?

HELP!!!!!

Help!!!

Hi again,

Hey! It's okay to feel... and to process those feelings... but please, please don't let it run yourself into the ground... I know, I know: easy for me to say!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> But remember we're all in similar boats... some are just at different points along the road to recovery. And it's okay to feel like you're back at square one... if you can take a breather and realize YOU AREN'T... you're much further along than you can imagine.

I wish I could cheer you up! I've got to go by WW's apartment and pick up the last of my stuff... she decided to work today (US holiday) and take Friday off instead... so I get to stand in the place and wonder to myself if that's the last I'll ever see of it. When I left our first apartment back home, it was after we'd been married about 1.5 years. It was SO HARD... I cried like a baby for some reason. And then when we left our house, about 1.5 years ago, I cried and cried again. I find it emotional to close doors on parts of my life. And... Well... I don't think I need to say much more - you can probably sympathize with what I'm thinking / feeling right now about the "closing of doors." Not good... Not good.

But I realize something... there's a lot of beautiful, sexy women out there who'd love to be part of my life. And the same goes for you (well, men). I know you would prefer your H... I'd prefer my W... But I also know that I'm going to be okay, one way or another. It's mostly just a thought right now, with a little bit of feeling starting to accompany it. When it's both a thought and a strong feeling, I think I'll be fully in acceptance. It's not an easy place to get to... I know.

(((((((((((((((((((seahorse))))))))))))

I am sorry you are on a downward part of the roller coaster ride. Unfortunately, the ups and downs go on for quite a while.

In my own experience, the time spent at the bottom lessened each time. I was able to pull myself out of it more quickly......eventually. It took time, and there were many times when I was very sad for days on end. But I found that the happier days were increasing, and the sad ones decreasing with each ride.

SO I guess I am trying to say that what is happening to you now is very normal, and you WILL pull out of it. But it is very important to let yourself grieve. Holding it in means you are holding ON to it, so let it out, and it WILL get better.

As far as Plan B goes, I did not have a deadline, because I did not know how long my patience could hold out. But I did promise myself that when I finally found out for sure that he was with OW, that would be the day I began Plan B. It was my armour.

Well that day came, and I did go straight to Plan B. And a funny thing happened. Because I was not talking to him, having to listen to his monotone deadpan voice, beause I was NOT wanting to hear from him unless it was to tell me that it was over with her, I stopped fretting so much, and was able to think more clearly about the situation I was in. For ME, Plan B was a Godsend.

That you are questioning your own deadline, not feeling confident of your changes being evident and also not sure if it is what you want to do, I would hold off going to Plan B. I think we discussed this before. You will KNOW, without a shadow of a doubt, when it is time to Plan B. And you will feel some relief from it.

I have read and read here, and there just does not seem to be a truly consistent time-line for these things. The time spent in Plan A and then B is up to the individual...it should be based on how much YOU can endure, and work at it.

YOU will KNOW when it is time.

Love and light,

Jacky

Seahorse -

If you haven't noticed the holiday here in the US has kept the boards rather quiet. I wasn't going to log in but felt the need to try and give you a little support.

First of all, I'm sorry things are down for you right now. We all go through bad periods and if you haven't noticed most of us are still around (no matter how things turn out). I've followed some of your threads in the past and it sounds to me like you are a great person and things will work out for you in the long run.

Second, it sounds to me like selling your house is very important right now. Maybee you could focus your energy on this to take your mind off focusing on the signs your WH is giving you. I know you have also done things for yourself in the past to get through hard times so it is probably time to treat yourself again.

I'll refrain from offering advice on plan A or plan B (I'm a firm believer you will know the right time).

Keep your chin up and focus on taking care of yourself. How about a smile (even if you have to force it). Cheers.

Dear Seahorse,

I read your post earlier. I could not post until I had a chance to figure out how to write my thoughts to you, so sorry if this took a while.

Need to let you know that your feelings are not abnormal. Very very normal. You are starting to face your needs and finding out that you are in the red. That is what happens to the BS when plan A starts to near it's end.

Love does not go on or by a date. A date is a date and love is love. Hm...... that means you can not set a time limit on your love. You can set a limit on how long you choose to work on yourself or tolerate enabling the A or working with a billigerent and unrepentant WS. But you can not put a time or date on how long your love will last nor how long your patience will last.

With that in mind, what is your date based on now? REmember, plan A is NOT about recovering the WS back to an H, it is about the BS becoming a better person and learning the skills to move forward. In that time, we learn how to handle the ever changing WS' attitude. Learn how to stand up to them and how to show them that we still love them without becoming a doormat.

Plan B gives us the ability to move forward to guard the love in our hearts. Not just of the H or W but of ourselves and life itself. Many a BS could be very bitter at the opposite s3x because of their personal painful experience and some even choose never to love again. Plan B however, does teach us to let go and move forward. Our lives do get better because we make choices to do so.

Whether the WS returns or not, those choices still lead us to happiness our personal happienss. Some WS do come back, others do not. Either way the BS, all BS in plan B move forward. With great accomplishments for the most part. If you only knew what some of the BS here have gone through, you'd be amazed and even more have done so over the years.

If you can find Redhat's sig line, read the thread about the 5 stages of grieving. It is a thread written by 2 MBers who post on the d/d site. The info there is beneficial. It helped me know that how I felt at any given time and what I may experience in the near future. That really helped.

You may be having anxiety attacks now that you are focusing on yourself. Your body and mind are finally coming to terms with all you have been through and maybe throwing you for a loop.

See if you can visit with an IC or doctor. Let them know how you are feeling. You should not have to go through this alone.

If your H should show interest in you, let him know that you are kinda shaky right now and have to pray for a clear mind and a calm heart. Let him go figure what that means. Don't explain it, not right yet anyway.

Hugz,
L.

Thank you for your support. I'm taking this hour by hour right now. There are things you said that i haven't thouht about.

I don't know what to do anymore. I think too much is going through my head, and I'm in overload. I'm stunned at this hitiing me so hard this week, but you say its normal. I will read the post about grief and see what else I should be expecting.

I've booked in for my IC this Sunday. As for plan a/b? I can't decide so i'm not goingto.

Hopefully God will send me a little peace soon.

Hour by hour, minute by minute, second by second, moment by moment--that's right. You'll get there! Just faith for each moment, that's all you need!

And forget the "what if" thinking... It is just going to stress you out. Perhaps you can get more support from your side of the family? Do they know? Maybe if you told his parents that would be a love buster and you can't afford a LB right now, after such a good Plan A.

Hang in there! What you stand to gain is worth all the pain. You can do this! You ARE doing it!

Are you seeing a doctor about your appetite? Do you think anti-depressants would help you? You DO need to try to eat!!! Take care of yourself! You're gonna make it!!! Don't give up on yourself! Keep the faith! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Hi Liz,

What a great thread. Many words of wisdom.

It looks like you went from thinking you may be able to start recovery to wondering if it is hopeless again. All your doubt and fears from all those long hard months came back to you. You still don't know what will happen. I am sorry that you don't have a better hope, but you still don't know.

How diffucult to loose some of your comfortable suroundings in the midst of all this. Don't give up on yourself. Don't give up on God. Liz, you really can make it.

SS

Seahorse,
It's ok to spend some time crying, if that's what you feel like. It is sad, it is a loss regarding both your mom & husband.

It's good you will see your IC soon. I went on anti-deps for 6 months at a point where I couldn't decide what to do anymore. I really didn't want to try them, thought I should be able manage my life, but they did help.

Can you take some time to try to do something you enjoy? Or used to enjoy, if the possibility of joy seems unlikely. Get a massage, a haircut, go for a hike, something to change your environment, even temporarily.

You don't have to make all these decision today. Plan B doesn't take more than a short preparation when you are already separated. If it is time, I believe you will know it. If you try B & it doesn't work for you, shoot, I failed at it twice <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> , so you wouldn't be the first.

Do the best you can under these circumstances. One thing about time, it does pass.

I have thought much and not at all this weekend. I've sought out friends and family and its helped. I've let people know things are not good and I'm not coping right now. They have helped.

I have considered why I want to plan B. Immediately its springs to mind that I want to do it to get a reaction from him to make him make a decision. I can see this is wrong, very wrong and would backfire. Having said that, I am running out of steam and I know I cannot do this for too much longer.

But, I have realised that I LB'd too, SS pointed out in one of my posts a big demand I made. I actually didn't realise till after what I'd done. I think I still have something to learn about the way I communicate what I want to my H.

I spoke to my IC today, who thinks that I really must look at setting a life up for myself, decide what I want from him and the relationship, set some boundaries and communicate these clearly to him. All what you have said to me.

She is concerned that continuing on as I am right now will be bad for my emotional health. That if I keep going on like this it will lead to problems.

She suggested that it might be wise to move slowly with the house. I think she is right, I am rushing ahead to a step that I'm not fully prepared for. Its where I'm heading, but I'm not quite there yet. I will talk to agents, etc, but not hurry it.

I went to the library today and got lots of books, one in particular may help very much, I started reading this afternoon. Its called "After the Breakup - Women sort through the rubble and rebuild lives of new possibilites". This may help me convince myself that I can live without H and make moving to plan B less traumatic for me. I told my counsellor how I felt about not having 'life after H', but it makes me cry whenever I think about it. It a very hard concept for me to deal with. They didn't have language of letting go, but I will track it - it sounds like a good book for me.

Other than these things, I have just taken it easy on myself. I went out on a friends boat yesterday (it was too choppy to dive) then I hit some golf balls at the driving range. I don't see H till next weekend, so I have some time to build up my reserves.

Thanks for all that replied- bintheredunthat, ss, lor, all of you. I am feeling stronger today and am trying to push upward now.

<small>[ July 07, 2002, 05:55 AM: Message edited by: Seahorse ]</small>