I got an email from my H today about some financial stuff - there was a phone message left for me at the house, and he passed it on. I wrote a short note back to him to make it clear I hadn't made any error on my end financially, but that the person phoning had. And what does he reply with?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">THEY JUST LEFT A MESSAGE WANT TO F$#%?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No, he didn't use the polite symbols I just used.

See? He has no respect for me at all.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

JB

<small>[ January 13, 2003, 08:31 PM: Message edited by: Jen Brown ]</small>

OMG Jen...I'm soooo sorry. I'm not sure how much constructive advice I can give, but if you need someone to be livid with you I'm right here!!! The "emotional reaction" side of me would fly in to "shove this up your @ss mode" and find myself a lawyer the next day...but unfortunatly it would be just to show him I don't have to put up with that kind of crap. But rationally...well...I guess thank him for relaying the message and pretend I never even read the other part. He's being a jerk...trying to get a reaction. Giving him one would just be playing in to his hands. Hang in there Jen!!

I'm not going to reply to his email at all.

Jen, Jen, Jen. You don't deserve this. No one does.

Don't for a second question yourself if this is rational.

WAT

Jen,

I am so sorry he is being an idiot.

AAAAAGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!

He needs taken out behind the woodshed!!

Hang in there

ayslyne

Maybe reply back with an email like:

Since the man I once knew could never treat another human being with such blatant malice and disrespect I am assuming the email was erroneously forwarded to me as a cruel gesture to make me loath myself and the state of my life even more by someone I do not know or does not really know me.

Sincerely,

MRS. Jen Brown

Probably silence is better but man I want to ring his neck for you.

ayslyne

Jen, I know that you love your H very much but unless you start getting some respect from him, your love for him will eventually die and you will not want your M anymore.

Yes you are afraid that you might love bust him and force him to end the M, but you don't have to be demanding in order to want respect from him. You could simply reply to him something along the lines of 'Your reply hurt me very much' and go dark for a short time.

If you don't beleive that disrespect takes its toll on people then I suggest that you read Zoey's latest thread to understand the gravity of its effects.

I would suggest being on the side of showing this man that you once loved that you are a decent human being. The suggestion that this e-mail was sent in error is a good suggestion. Maybe you could put a little text of verses in there, to say something like treat another like you would want yourself treated. Anyways, being kind is Gods way, showing anger and saying words of disrespect is the devil.

This hurts, I know, the hurt is so painful, and they don't realize what they are doing. Just a suggestion. We all would like to ring the wayward spouses neck.

I told my wayward spouse today, that I would like to have adulterous spouses shot. He said really, I said yes, then there would not be so much pain, death is an end, we know where these people are going, and there is no question at the end. So if death was for those who committed an affair, the world would be for those of us who committed ourselves to our marriage.

On the christian program I was listiening to today, they talked about adultery. The pain, the distrust, marriages could be saved after adultery. There is so much pain, and so much distrust. One woman said that she was not the adulterer, cause she made a committment to God. Another said, because we that didn't commit adultery, are christians that believe in the sacraments, and believe in Gods words. Many of the wayward spouses, look into the bible and transverse the words, to make them look okay. There is no where in the bible that says divorce is okay. NO WHERE. The adulter person, who says they didn't have intercourse, was stated in the bible as one who doesn't know what lust was, betrayal, commitment, fantasy. Like Bill Clinton saying he didn't commit sex. Was there lust? Yes. Was there showing their genitals, even if they didn't uncloth all the way? Yes. Was there intent to commit adultery? Yes. To get to where they committed adultery, they had to find a secret place? Yes. Secrets are adultery? Yes. (secrets from their spouse). Lies are adultery? Yes. (lies to their spouse). Not caring if they have a spouse? Yes. (not even thinking about their spouse and family). Denial that they committed adultery, is a sin? Yes. These are the ones that will turn the verses around to justify their actions. Bill Clinton was convicted of adultery.

Thanks for the replies of support folks. Ayslyne...I really like your suggestion for a reply, but I think I am going to sit on this for a day and think about it. That, and if I sent him a reply that was that thoughtful, my guess is he'd ignore it anyway, if not make another short, disrespectful reply. As far as he's concerned probably, he was just being funny, I should be thankful he even replied, and any holier than though reply from me wouldn't make him see otherwise. (I'm the FWS remember? He can treat me however he wants, and I will still want to reconcile with him...I've perhaps even made it seem that way to him with my actions thus far...being doormat plan A girl.)

While I was cooking dinner I had this insane temptation to forward that email to his female buddy (really his new best friend) from work...the one I still see socially occasionally, and who treats me well....and say to her, "Read this...this is how your new best friend treats me now. See? He's not quite the saint he portrays himself to be to you, is he?" But I know better than to do that. It puts her in a position she doesn't deserve to be put in. That and it would make him so mad, he'd cut off contact with me for sure.

TMCM: Zoey and I have become quite good friends via MSN. Her situation is on my mind more than you know....If I can help it, I don't want to end up at that point down the road, hence my other thread I started tonight under "In recovery": Questions for BSs who took back their FWS

Faith4me: Perhaps you misunderstood me, but I am the FWS. I don't really want to ring my own neck. Early on I did search the bible for verses that suited my purposes, that encouraged my H to forgive me, and to work on the marriage instead of pushing me out the door, and learned indeed that God hates divorce. However, my H has pointed out that the one case in the bible that supports divorce is in the event of adultery. I think it's the only verse he's read in months.

Folks, my biggest problem here is that if I try to stand up for myself and demand some self respect here, that he'll brush me off, say he was just being funny, and AGAIN won't really hear me, won't really listen. That's probably half of my reluctance to even dignify that email with a response.

JB

Jen:

I'm appalled. I'm also a big guy, so if you point me in his direction... ...well, I wouldn't really do anything violent. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I agree with the "ignore it" ideas. Probably the best thing to do. But something occurred to me: Why not say, simply "No, I don't. Not now, maybe not ever."

That kind of man gives the rest of us a bad rap. I wish that goof would make some real effort here and stop playing mind games with you.

I still think that Dr.H's sample conversation rocks... I especially like starting it with "Listen, Buster"!

Here's the whole article:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5062_qa.html

If you're interested in another seemingly hopeless story of a FWS and ignorant FBS (and who turned it around), do a search for a poster called "Juliet" on **edit** Things started to turn around for her once she stopped taking her H's B.S.

Thanks T-zero and JR. JR, you have no idea how many times I've read and reread the conversation part of that article:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> "Listen Buster, do you love me? Do you want me to love you? Do you want to spend the rest of your life with me? If the answers to any of those questions is 'yes' you sure are going about it the wrong way. You are not doing things that I admire, you're doing things that I find disgusting!"

What if he says, "Fine, then lets just get a divorce and end it all."

To that I would say, "It's up to you. I married you for life, but if you want a divorce, it's your call. If you want to be in a love relationship with me, however, you're going to have to treat me much better than you have been treating me. You must never again bring up my affair, and if you are upset with me, you will have to treat me with respect until we can solve the problem. If you are upset with our sexual relationship, I want us to discuss it as adults and solve it with mutual respect. I refuse to be treated like this, especially by the man I love." </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I would love to say those words to my H, and for him to actually listen, and consider them carefully in his mind. However, it would seem premature to demand he not bring up the affair again, would it not?

I'm such a fool, I'm afraid to stand up to him, for fear he cuts off contact with me again, or responds with comments about my unending number of weaknesses (ie. for fear he's mean to me). It just hurts so much when he does that, that I just want to avoid it all together. Maybe I'm a chronic conflict avoider...who knows.

Thanks JR for the idea to go over to Divorce Busting and look up Juliet's posts. The only huge difference is, upon a first peek, and going as far back in her posts as I think is possible, is that she and her H were attending counselling. I am awaiting "administrator approval" over at DB so I can post and ask her more about her tale. Incidentally, I just bought the book "Divorce Busting" on the weekend. Haven't cracked it yet, life's too busy again now that I'm back at work, but I'll get to it eventually!

Sometimes I just don't think I have it in me to keep at this. Maybe my H is right and maybe I am really just a very selfish person, since I had an affair and now I want him to treat me even better than he did before the A.

Jen <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

<small>[ January 07, 2003, 10:59 PM: Message edited by: Jen Brown ]</small>

Okay, I'm on my way to bed, but here's a draft email I wrote, that I may send to my H tomorrow, if I still like it when I wake up and read it again. You'll notice some similarities to the mock Harley conversation.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Do you care about me at all, even if you claim that you no longer love me? Do you have any desire at all, however remote, to perhaps one day save our marriage and be together again? Do you want me to love you? Do you want me to continue to be as devoted as I am to you and to saving this marriage?

If the answer to any of those questions above is yes, you're going about it the wrong way. You're not doing things that I can admire or find attractive, you are being disrespectful and disgusting. It's bad enough you can barely be bothered to spend time with me, and won't allow me to contact you. If you want to be in any kind of relationship with me, you're going to have to treat me better than doing things like asking me in an email, "WANNA F$%#?"

My guess is that you either think that it was funny to do that, or you think that I deserve that kind of treatment.

It just makes me feel like I'm nothing more to you than a sexual outlet. Yes, I've said that before a few times in somewhat different words. But really, after all that we have shared together, even in light of the selfish and hurtful things I've done, I don't know how you can live with yourself treating me this way.

I may have made some horrible, hurtful mistakes (for which I am truly sorry), but I don't think I deserve to be treated this way.

Jen <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Any thoughts? Any suggestions? What's the worst thing that you think can happen if I send it?

If I send it, my guess is he'll shut me out, won't reply, and I won't hear from him for days. Or, he'll show up here tomorrow night, mad, and ask me where I get off asking him to treat me better after the way I've treated him.

Oh also, something I came across on another thread was a link to a site (LINK) with stats and explanations for affairs and divorce. I found the reasons for having affairs very interesting, there were reasons there that I haven't seen before, and I've been doing a lot of reading in the past 7 months! A quote that really struck me was this one (which I think relates to my situation): </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Women give sex to get love and men give love to get sex. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sigh, I'm finding myself spending more and more time here at MB, when I should really be doing other things....talk about a needy person with a low self-esteem seeking reassurance, eh?

Jen <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Jen, the email is fine...don't worry about his reaction to it. If he chooses to punish you further, that's HIS PROBLEM!! At some point he has to quit running and fighting his feelings and face them...or self destruct. Either way, you've DONE WHAT YOU COULD and you do not have to take his disrespectfullness. I have a feeling he'll punish you by silence and then threats of DV or some other thing. If he does, it's truly his loss at an opportunity to regain his life. If he is involved in an EA, which is most likely the case...he's acting just like a WS and will continue to lash out like one. He can't heal that way...but it's his choice to make.

Jen-
Seriously, what have you got to lose either way? You don't send the email and there is NC until another phone message comes along or he wants to F*** again OR you send the email and he gets mad and doesn't contact you for awhile? At least you will have gotten this off your chest and just maybe he'll think about it.

This man is doing the same things with TWO WOMEN that you did with only ONE MAN (except for the PA part). How can he possibly judge you???? Turn the tables on him.
DB

Done, sent, and I'm glad I did. I edited it a bit first, and added some loving sounding final lines:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I may have made some horrible, hurtful mistakes (for which I am truly sorry), but I don't think I deserve to be treated this way.

I miss the kind, gentle, loving, sensitive and even romantic H that I fell in love with, is he still around?

I love you so very much H, and want to be with you, but I had to tell you how much it hurt to read your e-mail.

Jen:( </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">In a demented way, his poor behaviour in that email last night gave me a chance to tell him how that kind of behaviour makes me feel, finally. Now we'll just have to see what his reaction is. Crazy thing is I'm here all day today, but tomorrow I leave town until late Sat. night. I'm not sure he knows that.....

Sigh, on with my day,

Jen

Hmm...your mysterious leave of absence could actually work for you. I hope it's to go do something fun! You need a vacation! Heck...I need a vacation! Let's ALL VACATION!!! (but I have to be back in time for work...that gives me like 40 minutes so it'll have to be a quicky vacation) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

well written!

You husband seems to be operating on the assumption that one good turn deserves another. He is wrong. Plan B the hell out of him!!!!. take care. wu

Jen-

I'm sorry to hear that your H has stooped to such a low level to express his feelings. It's really a shame that he refuses to acknowledge your sincere efforts at R OR to recognize how fortunate he is. I would guess that his lashing out makes him feel better in the short term but will have a detrimental effect on his recovery in the long run. For some reason, the whole "sex" thing with the A seems to be a much bigger deal if the BS is a guy. That's certainly not any excuse as I (and hopefully most others) learned to work through those feelings without demeaning our WW's. Good luck with all of this and gather comfort from the thought that you're taking responsiblity for YOUR actions.