The other thread had 216 posts on it, so I decided it was time to start a new one. I'm sure many of you don't know who I am. I'm a person who is now divorced due to my infidelity. Like others here, I so want my now ex-spouse to give me another try. I asked him to 'try again' before the divorce was final, but I didn't break up with OM until July. Divorce was final in August. My exH said in August that he had less hope for me and him right AFTER D-Day than he did in August of this year. DDay was in February 2001!

It seems I haven't made much progress, but I'll keep trying to again 'earn' his love as I love him very much and feel terrible, beyond words, for the damage I did. What a horrible mistake. I still at times can't believe that this is my life.

I last wrote here on the fifth--no response(JL, Sharon, Kily, Checkers, TMCM, Lisa,ETC,I miss you all! ) but I wanted you to see that posting of a few days back, now--

posted January 05, 2003 12:47 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for letting me vent here, the past few days. I sound a bit like a rat..or I did the other day...but I'm sure you all realize it's my own anger coming out, which is truly directed at me, not him!

In the light of this morning I now feel a bit more patient, again, and thinking that I just need to be even more patient.

I need to keep remembering how long this A went on, and even though I did ask my H to consider a reconciliation as long as 20 months ago, my H didn't SEE any evidence of changed behavior until this past July.

The hard part for me is knowing what to do with my feelings of love for my exH. I need to not think about him perhaps as much, as it makes me cry so easily when he ignores me completely. I won't lose those feelings for him, but I need to curb them a bit for self-protection. I am sure that BS's go through this all the time.

I'll continue SHOWING my love for him, with small gestures . He absolutely seems to HATE to hear from me at all. I'm so dislike feeling that rejection, over and over.

I sent him that gift. I'm sure by now he's received it. Haven't heard a word about it. I'll eventually have to ask him if he received it, of course.

UPDATE--January 9-TODAY
I did get an email thanks for that gift from the exH. He said I didn't have to do it, but thanks anyway. He also brought over a substantial food gift he'd received, so it's here for us to enjoy.
That was progress, right?

A bit more progress came later on this week-
Our daughter asked him to help with home improvement 'stuff', so he was here for 3 hours two days in a row. It turned into a huge job, and he spent a lot of time here fixing it. He had phone help from people at his job, too--in solving it. It would have cost me a fortune to have a professional fix it.

I was at work most of that time he was here, couldn't be helped--as he got here very early in the day. I did see him a bit each day and he was friendly, more talkative than usual, and he did seem relaxed. He even added to my conversation with my daughter!! I couldn't believe it. I feel like there might be some hope, after all. Perhaps I'm simply just projecting my own feelings, but I don't think so. I asked him to stay and eat, but he said he'd eaten a late lunch with the kids so he wasn't hungry.

He needs to return to finish up this one 'job' that my daughter got him into doing. Any suggestions?

The time he was here in the home with me was the happiest time I've had in the past two plus years, since he left--except for the time I spent with him at our son's school event in the fall. I feel very peaceful when he is near me, and I don't know if telling him that puts too much guilt on him, or not. It's hard to explain, but that's how I feel.

Thanks to all here who've helped so much. I 'm very busy at work now so I haven't been around as much. I will catch up as time permits! Take care everyone.

Thanks again , all insight is welcome.

God Bless,
H_P

Hopeful-

The ice around your husbands heart will melt with the things you are doing. My WW will admit no infedelity. No wrong doing, justifies, lies etc...

As you say on so many of your posts, you wish your ex-H would be more like so many of the BS's on here and want to be with their Wayward despite the infedelity and if the condition of the marriage could improve for both parties. I wish so much that my WW would simply face the music that she wronged me. Now she is like you and is considering reconsiliation but my heart is still hard due to the fact she isn't changed. Steve Harley says that "unless you know EXACTLY why you had an affair, the likelihood of it happening again is VERY high.

You have gone thru the gamet of emotions and your behavior is EXACTLT what I would want and over time I would love you again (But thats just me) Unless my WW shows your type of heroic behavior and is consistent with it over many many months (perhaps even a year) I will not ever feel safe. I and I won't be married in fear.

Don't try and tear down the wall, one brick at a time Hopeful!

Take care

Hi H_P,

Sorry I haven't posted to you. And I need to get off so I will write when I have time. Just know I am thinking and praying for you.

Sharon

Hey, H_P

Sounds like progress. GREAT. Just keep it up. I know it is hard but with a little show like this from H it should be enough to keep the ole love bank ka-chinging. When he returns why not order in pizza to thank him and so everyone can have a little informal get-together. DON'T ASK HIM. just DO IT. I think at this point in my relationship with my H if he asked I would say NO to almost everything, thats just where I am. But if he just DID nice things. What am I gonna do?

Hang in there girl. I think 2003 is going to be a great year. I for one am glad to kiss 2002 goodbye. I feel like really starting over and the new year is the perfect way to make the change.

Anyway H_P, I will keep posted on you. I don't often feel like posting my own stuff anymore. There just doesn't seem to be a need or desire on my part. Hopefully my D will move quickly, and I can get this all in the past and look completely toward the future.

Love ya,

Sharon

Hi HP-

I'm so happy to hear the news. Just remember, he WILL withdraw again so don't get too disappointed! I think it's a sign of things to come. Good Work.

I'm just wondering how much of his actions are related to the email that you sent - flaming him for the way he treated your son. Perhaps that os what he needed. To see you as a confident woman that is firm about what she wants. Is it possible that the weeping, pleading version of you is just scaring the heck out of him?

Nice to hear from you.....You've been in my thoughts.

Hi H_P

Don't worry if we don't all post as often as we like, I'm always thinking of and wondering how my MB Superstars are doing!! I also think it was a good thing to start a new thread, as sometimes they become a bit unmangeable, and if someone new came here, they may not feel like reading through a long post.

Anyway, I think this is a very positive sign that your H has been "happy" to be around you and the family and help with some household chores. I agree with both Sharon and Kily, the pizza is a good idea, and the children will enjoy that, but equally he will probably pull back. Neil used an analogy with my H of being a rubber band, reaches out a certain way and then snaps back.

Sadly, my own situation has taken a very grave downturn, but I will remain focussed on improving myself and learning more about me, and this is what you too must do. For me, I think Spanish classes (after much threatening for a number of months!), continue my councilling, and maybe a bit of voluntary work. A while back I was invited to work with a woman's voluntary group (woman who are subjected to violence), but I could not commit to the dates they needed for their committee. I may relook at this too.

H_P I am sure that whatever happens between you and your H, you will find a better person inside you, a person you are proud of, a person who has grown and learnt. Hopefully, your H will be able to recognise that too.

Wishing you well from London (no more snow, but still cold!).

Lisa

H_P,

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Your Daughter is doing what I suspected needed to be done. She can be the intermediary without him having to address his issues or feel as if he is a sucker for helping. I do suspect your strong email was a help. He probably needed someone to kick him off dead center.

In that regard honesty is a GOOD thing. He needs to hear honest, heart felt things. I am not sure he is ready to hear how you feel when he is around, but H_P if the opportunity presents itself to tell him, do just that.

Alot of what you are doing is like cutting oil. You put it on, and then you have to let it work its way into the rusted and unused hinge. Time and patience for you young lady. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

You will know when it is time to do anything else.

God Bless,

JL

Thanks to all of you for your replies and support. I do feel there is more positive hope than there was two weeks ago, but I sure do have some bad times too. I know this sounds crazy to say it again, but I STILL wake up and can't believe this is my life. It's like I was truly 'hijacked' by aliens for a part of my life, when I was in the A. I'm not saying it to make an excuse, it is just how I see it.

Rlyhurtin
Thanks for your reply. I looked for your thread several days ago, and couldn't find anything. I was wondering how you were doing. Where are you posting now? Thanks, Rly, for your kind encouragement of saying the ice around his heart will melt with the things I'm doing. I hope and pray so.

I remember thinking, in June, that my exH would take me back right away if I ended it with OM. What was my problem? Too much ego?? I can't believe I was that stupid, to think he'd just say, "Sure, come back now, into my life." Maybe in time he WILL forgive me, and love me again.

RLY, perhaps in time your wife will think as I do. She sounds to be in 'deep fog'. In the meantime, you need to take good care of yourself and your children. (daughters, right?) Perhaps she'll go with you to counseling, as you mentioned she wants a reconciliation. Give it all time.

YOu said,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> You have gone thru the gamet of emotions and your behavior is EXACTLT what I would want and over time I would love you again (But thats just me) Unless my WW shows your type of heroic behavior and is consistent with it over many many months (perhaps even a year) I will not ever feel safe. I and I won't be married in fear.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Lisa of London read that too! Thanks, Rly, so you want a YEAR of consistent behavior. That helps me so much, reading that. It is like when someone stops drinking, or using drugs--I've heard experts say that the spouse should see if they're really off the substance by waiting at least a year for proof. I need to remember that.

Thanks too Rly for your analogy of one brick at a time, not all at once in tearing down the wall around my exH. I appreciate it.

Sharon,
Thanks for taking time out of your life to answer me, too.

You're right, I'll just order that pizza without asking.

You said,



</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> think at this point in my relationship with my H if he asked I would say NO to almost everything, thats just where I am. But if he just DID nice things. What am I gonna do?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That's interesting, knowing that you do come here and you WANT to save your marriage. You'd still say 'No'. I suppose it's natural, when we've been wronged so deeply.

I was surprised he did write a thanks for the gift, but at least he didn't say 'Don't do this ever again." I guess the door isn't shut completely, is it?

It's nice to know you're reading here, even if you're not posting. Please do sometime, so I can know how you're feeling, too. Sometimes Sharon I try to get all of this out of my head, but it just doesn't go away. I so want to rebuild with exH, but it seems so impossible in certain moments. Hang in there, too!
Kily,
Thanks too for responding, Kily. You're right when you say he'll withdraw again. I'm sure he will.

I've wondered too if the email I sent him kind of awakened him in some way, that I wasn't going to stand by passively with everything. I really don't know. I mentioned in it too that I was upset he hadn't called to wish the kids a nice new year--and it was already the 2nd of Jan.

You said, </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Is it possible that the weeping, pleading version of you is just scaring the heck out of him? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That could be, yes. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
One of the days he came over, he even did another repair that he'd coached our eldest son to do! It involved more work in the garage, etc. I'm so glad that exH did it, as I don't have the same confidence in son's abilities, nowhere near!

How are things going for you? I will look sometime this weekend for your thread!

Lisa,
Thanks for your thoughts, too. It sounds like you and I have such similar feelings through all of this. Thanks for sharing Neil's analogy of the rubber band. I need to remember that!

I read and responded on your thread this morning. Please, it's not grave yet. It never will be, until your H remarries!! That is how I see it, perhaps I am the eternal optimist.

It's good you've made plans of things to do, to keep 'busy'. I mentioned on your thread that it's the first time since the late seventies I've been without a man's romantic love. It's an adjustment, as for me 'love' is everything. But, one can certainly focus on so many other things. The longer that exH sees I'm alone and loving him still, it will help him see I'm serious about a reconciliation.

My eldest brother pointed out to me that I shouldn't give up hope at all . AS he pointed out, by this time exH could be remarried even! So, I guess we have to be patient, Lisa. This is hard for me to do, but it's so necessary.

I hope my exH does see that I'm a better person. Interesting thing happened when he was here. He asked me, "Is it okay if I leave these rooms like this, without electricity until tomorrow?" This meant there'd be no internet, etc, no power in bathroom #2. I said, "Sure , it's fine with me."

He's still so polite and thoughtful in this sort of way. Maybe he thought I needed computer/internet for work, I don't know. Maybe in the past, when we were first married , I would have been more upset about it. I don't think so though, I've never been a shrew about things. But, perhaps he doesn't know me anymore at all!!! Either way, it was very nice of him to ask.

J.L.,

You're right, JL, my daughter is doing what needed to be done. The odd thing is, I certainly didn't ask her to do it, and she doesn't know I wrote him an upset letter regarding the furniture-building, new year's issue. Interesting.

Do you think my email to him made him mad, or just made him think? I feel like at this point I don't know WHAT he thinks and feels.

I feel still so at a loss to know how much to say to him. It was rather shocking, while he was here, that he chimed in and added to the conversation with my daughter. He truly appeared to be very comfortable to be here again in the home. Daughter said he even had to venture back into our bedroom area (my perfectionistic tendencies tell me it should have been CLEANER!) so that was perhaps quite a big STEP for him, on some sort of level. (He hasn't been in there since October 2000)

I haven't communicated with him since the final day he was here,repairing. He'll come back one day this coming week. I feel I walk a fine line between bugging, pressuring him--and letting him know how thankful I am. Perhaps a quick call of 30 seconds 'thanks' later on this weekend is better than the 'chicken,safe' email way.

Thanks again to all of you, for your help and insight. I can't say enough how helpful you've all been to me.

Take care,
H_P

Hi H_P,

Just read your post to me. Don't worry about putting me on the defensive. I am hear to learn and listen. I am not sure I am here to rebuild my M anymore though. More just to see what is going on with my friends.

I was telling a good friend that I was ready for the D, because things had changed. She asked "Why have you found out more about him?" and I said "No I found out more about ME!"

H_P don't let my change of heart discourage you. I think as far as our relationships go there are some MAJOR differences in why I think there is a chance for you. Here is my perspective. I don't know you or your H except what I read here so I may be WAY OFF base here. In my view YOU were the major giver in your R. Also the emotional one the one who valued your R more from an "I need this R it is part of me" standpoint. That was me. My H was like your H stand offish, and unemotional. Closed I guess is a good word. So that right there changes the paradigm. YOU- the giver cheated. HIM (my H) the taker cheated. I hope you can see the point I'm trying to make. I have started to see that maybe I don't want to give my all to someone who takes and drains me dry. This last year has drained me dry. That is why I don't know if there is a chance for us anymore. I don't think my H can make the fundamental changes to be more of a giver. You however don't need your H to change to want him back. And I think all he needs is to know that you are serious and sincere.

Anyway, take care. Don't let this stuff I am saying get you down. I am happy. I am satisfied and I am ready to get on with my life. That is why I don't want to delay the D. It is dragging me down. I want it over. You have to realize it would take ALOT for us to recover and it certainly isn't going to happen with him living in Ill. And unlike you, my H has NEVER ONCE said one single word or showed ANY interest in getting back together so........

Take care and keep up your GREAT plan A. You are the best and deserve the best. Remember that

Love,

Sharon

hopeful_person, I wake up everyday hoping for my WW to act as you are now.

I am sending you a {{{H_P}}} in that you may get what you want and that your family might be restored in 2003.

Neil.

Thanks,Sharon and Neil!

It means so much to me!! I don't have much time now here.

Neil, your reply was especially heart-lifting, thanks!

Sharon,
Thanks for explaining your feelings/situation to me. I understand better now, completely.

JUST WANTED TO SHARE SOME 'kinda' good news...
For the first time in ages, exH actually answered an email where I didn't ask a direct child-related ? that needed answering. I had sent him a long note thanking him for help around here. HE wrote back you're welcome, and he also complimented our daughter on her household stuff.

Quite amazing. Many other 'thanks' I've sent off have NEVER been acknowledged at all.

Is this progress, or am I just hanging on to hardly a thing? I mean it, it feels like progress, but then again--it is so little that he did,but a lot compared to before. Please MB Buddies...what do ya think?

Take care,
H_P

<small>[ January 14, 2003, 12:57 AM: Message edited by: hopeful_person ]</small>

HP-

The door is opening. Just don't force it open. Let him come out and test the waters. Wait a little bit and see what happens. I think if you handle this correctly, he might accept the next time there is an invitation for coffee extended.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Good Work.

HIP HIP HOORAY!!!! SOUNDS LIKE A GOOD DAY!!!

THINKING OF YOU <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Sharon

Hi Everyone,

I haven't seen exH since a week ago Wednesday, when he did the repairs. He did more yesterday. I called home from work to see what I could bring by, for dinner. My sons said he had invited them out to dinner already. So I asked son to please tell him I would bring something home, and he said he wasn't interested in the first food choice I named. He then said , "I don't know" to pizza---and then he said, "I'm not hungry yet."

I got home about 15 minutes later and all of the males were gone, including my exH. My daughter was still here, she was going to eat with me. I hadn't stopped to get food as the answer had been no, and I know exH well enough that he isn't the sort to eat without hunger--unlike many people.

I said to my daughter, "I thought they weren't hungry, and they already left." When the boys came over later I asked them if they'd eaten right away. He said they'd hung out at their dad's place awhile, before eating.

I'd wanted to ask exH a computer question, I'll have to do that another time. He is an expert in the program about which I have a question!

It seems this man was comfortable here, the other day. He however doesn't wish to make any sort of sign to show he wishes to be near me at all.

Last night I had a dream, AGAIN, that he and I were reconciled. It was beautiful, and we were even on a helicopter ride in Hawaii. We've never been there. During our marriage, we never had any extra money to travel anywhere. Now we would, of course, but we don't have each other.

Any suggestions on how to continue showing him I love him, and I could be good in his life? He seems perfectly happy alone, the way things are.

I feel if I could 'trap him' alone somewhere...this is pure imagination...on a deserted island, for example, things could be better in a short time. The problem is--he doesn't wish to be near me. HUGE PROBLEM IN THE PROCESS, right? C'est la vie.

Suggestions, again? Please, especially the males here. What would you want to happen, if in the dark recesses of your heart you did have some sort of feeling...but you didn't want to be forced into acting on them? He wants to think it's his idea. (Did anyone see My Big Fat Greek Wedding--remember how the women said they had to make it the papa's idea, but they planted it?)

Thanks for all your support.

Must dash now,
H_P

Kily-Thanks for your support. You're right, he certainly has pulled back. I am beginning to think that his kindness in helping out was simply a fluke, and not any sort of indication of feelings of any sort at all. It was just for the kids, so that's fine--Indeed!!

Sharon,
Thanks to you too for your words of encouragement.

Aw H_P,

Will you please just CHILL. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

You are worrying about things that you cannot control. How do you show your exH you love him??? Simple, just be loving toward him in the things you say and the things you think. When he is ready he will receive the message. You won't know when that will happen but it will.

I suspect he fears you more than he dislikes you. In fact, if he disliked you it would be easier for him. I suspect that gradually the fear will go. Perhaps in the near future you will need to TELL him that he is going to sit and listen to you and you can then lay it all on him. That day may be soon. I suspect he views what he is doing as helping the family, specifically the kids. That is good. Write him a letter and tell him how much you appreciate all that he is doing. This would be appropriate following your other email about your son. You were right to send that one as well.

Do you see what I am saying? Give him honest feedback on how he is doing with his children. Give him honest feedback on how he is doing with you.

H_P, there are a variety of outcomes to this. Most are not WHAT you want. But, they can all be positive IF you continue your efforts. I think it is far too early to see much beyond what you have indeed seen. I don't have much time but if you haven't read SKM's Chronicles in the RECOVERY section search for them and read them. It details her recovery from HER affair. Why is that important? Because although your exH is the BS he is going through some of the same steps I am sure. So did you.

Have patience. You are doing better than you think. ANd H_P it is worth remembering that "as we dream, so we go." <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

God Bless,

JL

Thanks, JL, for your reply! I will try and CHILL, but it's hard. I've wanted to undo all of this for a long time, and it has weighed on my mind so very much.

But you're right, this is stuff I can't control.

Thanks for the support, you said when he's ready to receive my message, he will. I frankly don't see that happening at this point. He just seems to have shut me out.

I hope and pray you're correct when you say:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I suspect he fears you more than he dislikes you. In fact, if he disliked you it would be easier for him. I suspect that gradually the fear will go. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't know if he'll let me TELL him anything, JL. But I will certainly try it sometime in the near future.

I'll look for those chronicles of SKM. I take it that SKM is the name, not an abbreviation. I do feel I've gone through a process, too. I also feel that as each day passes, that's another day I haven't been allowed the joy of having a partner to love, and one who loves me. It makes me feel that life has cheated me completely, and I brought myself to this point. It's ironic, the affair began due to my own feelings of loneliness, and who knows what else--and now I'm lonely beyond words for my husband . Is that what is called poetic justice?

I like that, "As we dream, we go." I hope it is true in this case.

take care...Thanks for your support and encouragement.
God bless you JL--
H_P

H_P,

Here is SKM's Chronicles SKM

I think you will see how long it takes for people to get the heads straight. I was going to send you to read MortarMan's latest posts, but I think it will depress you.

H_P, I think that if you give up or do nothing your H will be moving on and leave this behind. It is normal. What isn't normal is that the WS hangs in there and works on things. Leaves the door open and allows TIME for the healing to occur. Then the outcome can be different. IF MortarMan's W doesn't come around he is moving on and you can see by how he is thinking he may be a lot like your exH. BUT, one thing is different. Your exH hasn't found anothere woman as MM seems to have or Kily's exBF has.

All I know is that one needs to leave doors open, do their best, and see what happens. As for being lonely H_P I do think I have a clue. But, I also think it is time that you realize that what defines you is not another persons love. It is you and how you treat other people.

I can see both sides of this issue. But, I can also see that your exH doesn't see how UNIQUE you are. For most WS's move on, or simply come back because it is more convenient than the alternative. MM is facing that question with his W. Your exH may be also dealing with the "how to determine what is real" question.

So I see that you do have hope. I see that your exH hasn't done things that completely slammed the door (marrying someone else for example), but he is not ready to trust himself and you, YET.

Something will have to soften his heart and this generally only happens with time.

So, hang in there for awhile. It will work out as it is supposed to.

God Bless,

JL

Hi JL,
Thanks for the link to SKM's Chronicles. I read a bit last night, and I'll look more today. I appreciate it so much!

Yes, it does take time to get heads straight. I think at times I worry as I know how my exH is. He doesn't spend much time thinking about things, at all. He always told me that, and I feel it's apparent through all of this stuff. He is not one to analyze, and he's said so, himself. So be it, I can't change him, and I love him just the same.

Thanks for your kindness/observation of saying I'm unique in wanting to work things out with my exH. How do I convey that to him? I think at this point he is feeling bitter, and feels that I want him mainly for a better lifestyle than I have now with the children.

I am hoping that time heals my exH , and I have had a few glimpses of some small types of healing. I am worried that he will find someone else, in the interim, but if that happens--I can't control it. Then I'll have to tell myself, I did my best--and that's all I can do.

JL's words:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> As for being lonely H_P I do think I have a clue. But, I also think it is time that you realize that what defines you is not another persons love. It is you and how you treat other people. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Interesting--and yes I realize I'm not defined by another person's love. I knew that years ago. I was never one of those girly-girls who had to have a date, or what not, to feel 'alive'. I am talking about the beauty of a close, intimate relationship that I miss--and I don't just mean SN. It's something I haven't been without for a long, long time. It is actually getting easier now, than it was at first.

So wise,too, as you said, "It will work out as it is supposed to." This is what I need to remember.

I've never pursued a man in my life, but I will continue. It is so very hard to be rejected, and after the first few times it almost seems like masochism to keep asking again. But, I will do it.

Take care, and thanks to all for your support,
H_P

H_P,

What do you think your exH would say if you said: "I know you fear getting involved with me again. But, I would very much like a relationship with you. Not necessarily marriage although that would be great from my point of view, but simply to be with you from time to time. Do you think we could try this?"

You are right he doesn't trust you or himself. It is safer to do what he is doing. But, perhaps a slightly different approach would work. I don't know if he has a sense of humor or not. But, if he does, radical honesty can be done in a humorous way. I could see you asking the questions above and then "telling him sooner or later you are going to jump his bones." <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

But, the point is that honesty is crucial. It also needs to be done with a point in mind. It may be that your H is the kind that won't do anything, but wouldn't fight you if you went over to his place, grabbed him by the lapels and said "Buster we are going to eat and you WILL enjoy it." <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I am serious. If you did that he is at no risk. He could tell everyone you "forced" him to go. He didn't see how he could refuse without going to jail. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Sometimes, it is necessary for people to be "forced" (Yeah right?) to do things. Men, do like this in their own way. Men, aren't completely dumb and when W's try to manipulate them they generally know. They allow it because they enjoy the fact that the woman is doing something ACTIVE toward them.

As you said you have never chased a man before, not even your H. But, he may need chasing. I can see two obvious outcomes. One, it wears him down and he agrees. Two, he really really doesn't want any relationship with you and it will force him to admit as much. In either case you are out of limbo.

So think about this. He may need a strong firm woman to LEAD him out of this. That would be you, H_P. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

God Bless,

JL

HP and JL -

I absolutely LOVE it! I can just picture HP showing up at her H house in black leather with the chains and whips! Darling you are coming with me to dinner tonight and you WILL like it! Snap of the whip! H's mouth hits the floor as he stands there salivating over the things that will happen after dinner....WAHOO! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
(Guys it's been much 2long so please forgive the fantasy sequence here!)

Wow that was fun.....

Seriously, he responded positively when you were aggressive with your email about the kids. You will have your answers if you play this out the way JL suggested. It's been almost 5 months now.

How long are you going to sit passively and wait for him to come to you? We need to figure out a new plan of attack.....

Hope I made you smile...