Luki - I'm not sure what you should do if you choose not to move back in, other than consult an attorney about your options regarding access to your home and pursue a separation document that spells out the division of assets, etc., including who controls the home.

The purpose of Plan B is to isolate the BS from painful and love busting treatment by the WS while isolating any benefit the WS gets from the BS. It's the BS saying, "You decided to separate, I'm deciding to STAY separated until I think you're ready to work."

I'm not sure what you mean by, "I would not get the benefit of having more time for a Plan B" in your situation. She's already isolated you. If you mean you fear that divorce would be sped up, OK, I understand. But Plan B or not, it seems that she may have to see, as you say, what the ramifications of separation/divorce are to see if she has the meddle to go through with it. What better way to accomplish that other than to move back in and see if she'll move out into the real world? (No matter what happens, I don't think she can force you out of your house without your agreement.) Yep, that'll put a bee in her bonnet, but it also gets you fully back into Plan A until she moves out or until a legal separation is secured - either way you're protected. By not moving back in, what motivation does she have to do anything other than maintain the status quo?

I hope you get more ideas from others- I feel like I'm either exactly right - or WAY wrong.

WAT

I've said all along - MOVE BACK IN! If she wants to live her life with the OM, let her -- somewhere else. I really think that having to find somewhere else and all that that entails, will be a bit like reality setting in.

I think that's what she needs.

You are making it tooo easy on her. Let her work for it.
DB

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> If you mean you fear that divorce would be sped up, OK, I understand. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yeah, that's what I am getting at. I want this thing to go the whole 9 yards as far as time goes. If I went back it would cause permanent damage that could not be undone. She would go into perma-fog.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> By not moving back in, what motivation does she have to do anything other than maintain the status quo? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The status quo not as good as reconciliation but it is better than the D process.

I think I will gain access to the house but I will not use it. I'll will be the 800 lb gorilla sitting quietly.

Oh yeah, I told her that EVERYONE knows about the A. She was not sure who knew, exactly. Now there is complete daylight on this thing in her mind. I was tired of playing games around this.

The walls are closing in. She has cut all the important people out of her life. All her good friends and her parents. I feel that at this point I have to let this thing die the natural death. Moving back would not do this in my opinion. Gaining access to home followed by a legal separation would strike a balance don't you think?

Luki ...

Ditto WAT. You have move in and dig in there, she will be the on who 'll move out. If you get the legal proceeding you will still loose <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> , they (cops) will just give you time to move your stuff out. You already have a place of resident. Sooo either call a keysmith and show your id to get the key made and move back in or send your plan B.

Yes, plan B is formality but you have to do it otherwise you are enabeling your WW' A.

About legal separation, I really strongly against it unless you have a lot too loose or willing to loose it. Let her do it.

-rh-

Hi RH, Hope things are going well for you.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Sooo either call a keysmith and show your id to get the key made and move back in or send your plan B. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am thinking about a combonation of both. I want to get a key made and then go into Plan B.

I am thinking about legal separation as a tool to bring a dose of reality to her world. I really think that she thinks that a D will not be a big deal and that I will roll over on the division of marital property. Does that make any sense?

(Thanks 3 for deleting those dup. posts. I read your posts 9 times anyway <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> )

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Luki:
<strong>Hi RH, Hope things are going well for you.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am still licking my wound <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> but it is no longer bleeding <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> . I am ok and thank for asking. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>I am thinking about a combonation of both. I want to get a key made and then go into Plan B.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Nope. One LB at a time ... your plan B will lost it clearity in the midst of huge LB moving in. Get ready for batlle of the roses.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>I am thinking about legal separation as a tool to bring a dose of reality to her world. I really think that she thinks that a D will not be a big deal and that I will roll over on the division of marital property. Does that make any sense?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">IMVHO. This is a wrong decision to do. It might work the other way around too, she will say it is not that bad ... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> . Your actions should not depends on making her understand. You are interfering with natural death of A.
-rh-

By not moving back in, what motivation does she have to do anything other than maintain the status quo?

The status quo not as good as reconciliation but it is better than the D process.
Probably not. With no contact, it is too easy to go on indefinitely. I know. My ex hasn't spoken to me in over 2 years & very little since she moved out 4 years ago. I've been divorced over a year now & she doesn't even know it yet.

If I remember, we all told you to move back in a few weeks ago. Move back in and let her know you still want the marriage, then the pot gets stirred and something may happen.

Thanks guys/gals,

You've given me something to think about. I will chew on this for a few days and try to figure this out.

Chris you are right, something will definitely happen if I go back. It might not be what I want though. But if I get access and then I don't move back... I'm thinking that maybe the way to go.

RH that is a good point about one LB at a time. But if I get a key and then back off and go to plan B, won't that go down a one LB.

I am thinking about legal separation because, I will earn more money this year than I ever have and anything I aquire I want to be protected. I suppose that a retro-active agreement could always be put in place.

Chris you are right, something will definitely happen if I go back. It might not be what I want though.
But you KNOW she will continue to have an affair if you do nothing! You definitely don't want that (right?)

But if I get access and then I don't move back... I'm thinking that maybe the way to go.
So you get a key to the house. What's that gonna do? She finds out that someone was in there & calls the cops?

But if I get a key and then back off and go to plan B, won't that go down a one LB.
Sometimes you have to LB. Yes, Plan B is a LB, but at this point, almost anything you do is LB. First you do what you need to save the marriage, then worry about LB's.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Luki:
<strong>RH that is a good point about one LB at a time. But if I get a key and then back off and go to plan B, won't that go down a one LB.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Two separate opposite issues. One issue for you to move in to work on M and the other to separate to force her away from you. Like Chris said, stir the pot and see what you get. NO LB.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>I am thinking about legal separation because, I will earn more money this year than I ever have and anything I aquire I want to be protected. I suppose that a retro-active agreement could always be put in place.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You answer your own question <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> ... yes and it depends on how long is the support. Meanwhile she could drag you rear behind to the court every time there is a change in income by filinf a very simple form. Unless you get unmodifiedable settlement. My WW will be on my rear behind for 8 years until my YD reach 18.

-rh-

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Luki:
<strong>Oh yeah, I told her that EVERYONE knows about the A. She was not sure who knew, exactly. Now there is complete daylight on this thing in her mind. I was tired of playing games around this.

The walls are closing in. She has cut all the important people out of her life. All her good friends and her parents. I feel that at this point I have to let this thing die the natural death.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">OK, Luki, can you elaborate on this some more? Do you detect that turmoil is increasing? Is this why you say the walls are closing in? Bottom line, do you see evidence - real evidence - of decreasing contentment on her part?

If so, waiting and doing nothing for a little while may not be a bad idea. But only if the walls are really closing in and the affair is headed north (that's the way we southerners say it <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> ). In other words, if it's REALLY in its death throes, you don't need to help it and any bad juju you introduce can give it new "life".

Chris? rh? kily? others? 3? (only one answer, please <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> )

WAT

Luki- I am so sorry it has come to this. I have read your post and have some comments.

Move home as soon as possible
Give her some time before you plan B her
Only as a last resort file a legal separation

We live in the same state and yes it is a 50/50 state but at the time divorce or separation is petitioned it DOES make a difference who is living at the property. As I understand it she does have a right to change the locks (I did) but she can't keep you out of the house. She HAS to make the house available to you if you choose to move back in.

Once you move back in, she will probably move out since you are hindering her A. At that time you should go to plan b. Not before, IMVHO.

If you are really concerned about money (assets or debt) then file for separation. If not don't push her away it will only serve to support her A. Just my opinion!

Good luck Luki, I am sorry you are at this point.
STTSI

HI - I am so glad I amused everyone . Its ok I can take the RAZ , after all if you read my post Iput up with more then that LOL

Any way I am still say move back . BYE <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

UPDATE: A PROZAC MOMENT FOR LUKI.

I went over to get a package that had arrived at home. I notified WW as to the time. I was 15 minutes early. OMs car was in my spot!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> So I get my package go back to my car and was about to call her and tell her to give me a key or I will have one made. She came out before I could dial. She looked so guilty. For the first time in a long time she was walking on egg shells. I asked her why she even came out. I said I don't need this right now. We chit chatted about other things. She was shaken as was I. But I kept my cool. They were going to go rock cimbing(indoors). I she said that they though I would get there later. I was pretty matter of fact with her. Got some stuff and left w/o saying goodbye until she said bye.

Ok now to the analysis:

WAT,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">OK, Luki, can you elaborate on this some more? Do you detect that turmoil is increasing? Is this why you say the walls are closing in? Bottom line, do you see evidence - real evidence - of decreasing contentment on her part? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, I do. I called her close friend and woman idol w/ whom she had lunch with today. WW told her that she didn't know what was going to happen with OM and that she didn't know how much longer he could take this. This is what I mean by following the script. If I went back it would foil this "progress". It may not be in the death throws yet but it is following the Harley timeline. I have to continue to tread lightly.

STTSI,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> If you are really concerned about money (assets or debt) then file for separation. If not don't push her away it will only serve to support her A. Just my opinion!
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">With this new knowledge I will hold off on the legal separation. Good point.

Chris, RH, and 3,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> But you KNOW she will continue to have an affair if you do nothing! You definitely don't want that (right?) </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">From what I just learned, the longer I can keep this in limbo the more likely that OM will do some major LBing. It sounds like this is already starting to happen.

It had to throw her off balance how I acted. For the first time in a long time she recognized that I was not pursuing her and that I had had enough of her crap. I'm still in a little bit of shock but I am a little more hopeful.

What do you guys think of this?

We weren't there to see her eggshell walk, only you can assess this. But it sounds like you had an impact. Hmmm - rock climbing? Leading to castles in the sky?

If it's true that things are going north <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> in LaLa Land, perhaps holding off has its benefits. On the other hand, if you move back, she either leaves and she and OM have to shack up in some refrigerator box OR she stays, PO'ing OM because he will NOT like that and LBs back to the stone age.

Who knows??

Please remind me about his living arrangements, family status, employment status, etc. Sorry, I can't remember.

WAT

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Please remind me about his living arrangements, family status, employment status, etc. Sorry, I can't remember. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Living Arrangements/Family Status: At home w/ Dad(Mom ran off with OM, go figure) He's 27-28 years old.

Employment Status: Builds Churches(No, I am not making this up). He is a laborer or something.

Education: High School. 1 Credit short of getting a degree so he can be a gym teacher or something like that. He never went back.

Things are going "el norte". If I went back they may shack up, things would end, but I have a feeling things would also end between us. That's why I am hesitant. I had rather have him force her to make a decision than me.

Luki, I'm afraid I have to ditto what WAT is saying. I think moving back in may not be a bad idea. At least have a key made so she knows you have uncontested access to the home. Make things as HARD as possible for her and OM to "do their thing". The fact she looked guilty should say something. Sounds like she's still deep in the fog, but she's hearing the fog horns and caught a glimpse of the light from the lighthouse. Be firm but loving, don't LB, but don't do nothing either. Remember the Rush song?? "If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice" Sooner or later your going to have to bet the house. JMHO

MTD

Glad to hear that things may be going north. Maybe waiting another week or two would be in order??? Could you handle waiting longer?

If things really are starting to fall apart for her, moving back home and/or filing for separation would only give justification to her feelings that you are a jerk and she should not work on the M. Maybe by staying the course she will find you more attractive than being pushy about it. On the other hand if you move home your WW probably wouldn't be able to move in with OM since he lives with Dad. Tough call, but I would say stay where you are if the A really is ending.

MTD Quote "I think moving back in may not be a bad idea. At least have a key made so she knows you have uncontested access to the home. Make things as HARD as possible for her and OM to "do their thing". "

Why make a key if you are not going to use it? To me that seems very controlling and would be a LB to me. My opinion.

Kind of ironic that he builds churches isn't it? My WW said she wanted to go to church and never did, turns out her OM lives across the street from a church, a message? Ahh, yes, the little ironies in life.

I sent my WW an email last night saying how hurtful the experience had been earlier that evening. But I also added that I was committed and was not giving up. Sort of a plan A email.

Not much to do now other than wait it out a few more weeks before "official" Plan B even though its a defacto plan B now. Oh well. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Thanks for all the input.

I forgot to add this:

OM is PO'd at my ILs for trying to control my WW!! This is good news to me, don't you agree?

-Luki