Frankly, I don’t know where to begin or what I expect from you guys. I go back and forth as to what I think this site is for me, a support group, a place to vent, a place to feel sorry for myself, a place for advice. But for some reason I still feel obligated to let you guys know what’s going on in my life. I want to truly believe that God led me to this site to learn about all the MB concepts and w/that comes the forums but maybe I’m wrong in thinking that and that I should rely on God more. I do know that I’m not ready for plan B, don’t know if I ever will be no matter what happens. Most of you who have stuck w/my posts know I still feel somewhat different from people here because we don’t have kids, we were already living apart when I found out about the A but not because we were having problems, also that the OW is single w/no kids and still lives at home, and that I don’t have the support of my IL’s or the parents of the OW are not doing anything.

I will be scheduling the first available appt w/SH asap to help be decide of what my next course of action or lack of action that is. I am actually house sitting for a friend right now all this week but went to where I live to check on the mail etc. and there was an envelope w/a bunch of my mail and stuff from my H along w/a letter from him. My pastor told me a few weeks ago to expect the worse and to expect everyday that there could be D papers in the mailbox and that has been some good advice for what I was about to read. I really know that my situation is not as bad as others but I’m the only one experiencing it. I also know that many of the WS act and say the same things no matter what but sometimes you still need to hear things based on your own situation and I guess that’s what I’m going to do. This is the letter I received from my H yesterday.

Roughroad,
I’m writing this letter so hopefully you will understand what is going through my head. First I need to applogize once again for what I have done to you. Nobody, no matter what, deserves the grief and pain I caused you. Second I am sorry for not acting like a real man all these years. I have come to realize that if I had acted like a man noe of this may have happened. By not telling you how I was feeling or confronting you when it was necessary I fanned the flames which eventually consumed our relationship. I guess I was a coward in a way. Rather than opening up to you I retreated to within myself hoping that I would get better on it’s own. All I wanted to do was make you happy and as the years went on my hope for this turned to despair. You were unhappy for a very long time and I believe that I was a major part of that. I just didn’t know what else to do for you that would make you enjoy life and love me like I needed to be loved. I have spent the last few years unhappy, lonely, and wondering if you stayed with me out of pity, not wanting to be alone, or because you really loved me. All of this does not excuse how I hurt you, but I was in a lonely and desperate place and just wanted to feel alive again.

I still love you roughroad and you will always hold a place in my heart, but I’m not in love anymore. I have to move on and begin the next chapter of my life an so do you. I struggle on a daily bais with the hurt I have caused and the end of our relationship. But one thing I am certain of is that I must move forward. I don’t really have a plan and I don’t really have anything financially, but I know that I must move on. I will always owe you a lot for what you have done for me. You put up with my childish side, you put up with my stupidity, and most of all you forced me to grow up and probably saved my live. I am so proud of you for what you have accomplished with your life. You area brilliant and motivated woman who I’m sure I’ll see on HBO in Autopsy XXX or whatever number they are at. I am so proud of you for losing the weight and I am truly seeing glimpses of the woman I married all those years ago. I’m just so sad it took these last 3 months for us to finally talk and communicate the way we should have all a long. I will be filing for divorce soon. I hoped that if I allowed some time to pass you would see that we both need a new start. I hope that someday you can forgive me and I hope someday you find the happiness you deserve.

I have forgiven you and no matter what happens I will always remember you in your brilliant moments that I was honored to be a part of. I realize you are probably angry with me, but I hope someday you will look back with a smile and remember my good moments. I will always love you roughroad and I hope that I have helped you somehow through your journey.
With love and gratitude, WH
P.s. everything here is being cared for and the dogs are doing great. I hope to have the house on the market by the end of the month. Call me if you want to xxx-xxx-xxxx


Well, that’s it, now I can add my name to the many who have received a similar letter. Thanks for reading and for any comments I receive. I haven’t given up hope but just having one of those bad days on the rollercoaster. Prayers to all.

Hmmm. Sounds like you are a fantastic woman. My WH always says I'm a good woman, but never goes into details.

The I love you, but not in love with you part is classic fog talk. And it seems promising to me that he says he is sorry. My WH took 8 months after D-day to say he was sorry.

So all in all, who knows what it means. I would just continue on with my life and see what happens next.

RR, I agree with what Believer said. I still keep an e-mail my Wh sent me last month before we went to Toronto. He said similar things, but in much shorter version.

I would do whatever you wer doing and sit still. I know how hard it is. I know my Wh is thinking the same thing. But what can we do? We just have to put our trust on GOD. Like my sis said, GOd has a plan for you, it is the best. Hugs, love and prayers for you.

RR -

Don't give up hope. I am praying for you. Most of the comments sound like fog talk to me. My WH told me he was filing to and still nothing. I am seeing more positive signs from him now than I did when he lived with me.

He says that he is seeing glimpses of what he married. Keep showing him that <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Stay positive and keep coming for support, venting and whatever else you need.

RR,

I am a bit confused...you don't want to go to Plan B but you want to give up? is that it?

if you ever decide to give up, please give Plan B a try first...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I really know that my situation is not as bad as others but I&#8217;m the only one experiencing it. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">your situation is bad...painful...confusing...devastating...(aren't I cheerful??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> )...

my point is: don't underestimate or play down how hard it is...you are a wonderful inspirational person, cheerful and upbeat...that is my impression of you anyhow...

let yourself grieve on hard days...receiving this letter is hard...let yourself cry, scream, or stare off in a catatonic state...

let yourself "feel"...

many people assume that Plan A is about sucking up your emotions...not at all! feel your emotions...express them...and then let them go in order to make decisions...

(Plan A is about not inflicting your emotions on someone else, but I know you've already grasped this concept...)

RR: I share many of the same characteristics of your M except I am older and we've been M longer...so I do understand what you are saying about feeling "different"...

we too had no kids, lots of unhappiness, physical separation before the A was "discovered" (although one of us already knew! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> )...

my point to you is not going to be "this will all work out"...my point is FAR more upbeat than that...

RR: you can take this opportunity and learn from it, benefit from it...significant personal growth is rarely (never?) achieved without pain...sadly, we humans don't seek for higher knowledge when we are happy and satisfied!

learn to find happiness within you...seek a place of peace and understanding...do your best with your WH because YOU deserve the best...you will know when it is time to walk away because it will be right for you...

for you, if I was to predict, I would say that you would benefit from continuing a while longer in a peaceful, loving, Plan A...and by sending a beautiful, peaceful, loving response to his letter...he is still stuck in the "you're angry at me!" stage...you can still surprise him...

he is saying the exact same stuff my H said...your WH has not yet realized he is seeking happiness in another person...he has not yet really looked inside himself...

and may never do so...

THAT is why you need to seek within you RR...find your peace...

soppy...sappy...but it is true nonetheless <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> ...this journey is about you and YOU will benefit from it no matter what your WH does...

heal yourself RR...all the best to you...you are an absolute trooper and I love reading your posts...don't EVER lose heart...YOU deserve much better than that...awed

P.S. I guess I should add that my H and I are extremely happy together now...telling you this kind of negates the point of my post <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> ...but perhaps you need a different nugget of inspiration today?

if so: yes...WS can go from feeling like your H does now to feeling like my H does now...a world apart yet oddly, not as far apart as either of you imagine...

BUT...forget about him...you need to let the A play out as it does...focus on YOU...he may not "get it" but you WILL...

<small>[ May 18, 2004, 09:27 AM: Message edited by: awed18 ]</small>

RR
Dont give up hope on your WH. Judging by his letter he is still very much in L with you. It has taken me a while to understand but looking back I know exactly where your WH is at. His letter is the same letter I have thought about writing my BS. I have not told many people my story but I have done a lot of reading in MB for several months. I too am a WH who feels the words your WH writes to you. I do believe that everything is done for a reason, my A was a test from God that I failed misserably at. I still L my wife and believe someday we will be back together. She like yourself has made changes and is looking great. Does your WH read the MB post? I think that the people here is what will make the difference for me and possibly your WH. I would not push him if he does not, but maybe suggest it to him to read it.
Best wishes and Prayers

RR I think that what the other's have posted here is correct. Saying I'm filing for DV and doing it is a whole different ballgame. Like the classic line in Full Metal Jacket. "You talk the talk but do you walk the walk?" Don't get excited until he actually act's on his words. I think personally the WS thinks that if they did come back into the M they would have to live with the guilt for the rest of thier life. They assume that we would make them feel guilty for the rest of thier life. I think this is the main conflict with a WS. JMHO The WS doesn't know how much we care and that we would never hold this against them and until they do some soul searching and see that we wouldn't hold this mistake against them forever this will be thier state of mind. Prayers to you RR.

thanks believer, lostnhurt, havinghope, awed, and lost in life, tinman for your replies.

i haven't lost hope and i'm not giving up. i guess i'm just having one of those days that awed said i can have <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> and just really feeling my emomtions today. afterall, i know that God has worked a miracle in me and has changed my heart. i have prayed for years for God to be w/me and my H and for him to help me be the person he would have me be. Of course this is not at all what i wanted to go through to be that person. but again how can i possibly believe that God is working w/me and has saved me but yet not believe that he can work a miracle w/my husband? I can't, i have to believe both. but even the best of God's people, say Job from the old testament for instance had times when he was sad he was even regretted being born. of course that's extreme but i think you get what i mean.

i guess part of my sadness is that i just don't have anyone right now to physically reach out too. the friend i'm living w/is deployed, my other friend here is gone and that's why i'm house sitting, my sister lives out west, my family lives 5 hours away, i couldn't get in touch w/my pastor last night and i don't know anyone well enough at my church to call (i just started going there shortly after Dday). i didn't feel i could call my mom last night and just felt really alone. so i prayed and went to bed and cried.

lost in life, at the behest of my counselor from MB i have to be extremenly sensitive and cautious w/the way i deal w/my H. for that i can't right now suggest he come here. i think i more afraid that he will use what he learns here against me and use it in his "new" relationship. i have talked a little to him about needs and had him read a letter from one of the old members (truehearts letter) even though i maybe shouldn't have. trueheart's letter is from the perspective of a FWS and it was very good and i had hoped it might have planted seeds, i did tell him that not all of it applied to our situation. my H did read it said that it was good but that he never talked bad about me and defended me if anything. but i'm glad you have come here and hope that you can turn things around w/God's help.

thanks again all and just going to try and make it through today. i did talk to my pastor this morning and we talked about him talking to one of the church member who is a lawyer and finding out if she can offer any advice or suggest a lawyer i can talk to. he said he would talk to her and see if she would call me. continued prayers to you guys.

<small>[ May 18, 2004, 09:48 AM: Message edited by: roughroad ]</small>

rr,

Since you are not in Plan B (although please please do not rule that out...especially if he actually files), I see no reason that you can't write a letter of your own. Did you know that Plan A can be done in a letter? Oftentimes, when a Plan A has to be done from afar, it is one of the few avenues left to travel. It might go something like this:

H,

Thank for your letter and your apologies. I think it's also important for you to know what is going through my head. Yes, I wish that you had been able to open up to me long ago, but I won't judge your actions...only let you know that it's still not too late to do all that can be done. Being "in love" is a funny thing. That feeling of infatuation is a fleeting thing and one that I didn't really expect to last....because it doesn't. The highs of infatuation will fade in every relationship....and keeping love alive afterwards requires effort and commitment...and yes, even courage. The bonds that form with lasting love are much stronger than you imagine. Right now, while you are still enamored with someone else...that's impossible to see. And yet even that relationship will reach the same milestone. We all seem to understand the relationship between hard work, dedication and success...in every other thing we do...but we expect love to be effortless. New love is effortless, but only for a short time...lasting love never is.

I don't doubt that you love me...or feel out of love with me now....because over the years we stopped protecting and caring for each other. I am still committed to changing that. I am still committed to working on the things that made our relationship unhappy. I have no plans to stop.

I can't decide for you, but I am not ready to move on and give up on this marriage. I cannot change how you feel, but I am not where you are. From everything I know about how marriage, love, and affairs work....as certain as you feel that you are ready....as long as you are involved with someone else, you won't truly know. Right now, there is a filter over your eyes that will not go away until you are looking at me without someone between us. If you truly want to know whether there is any hope for our marriage....that cannot be done while you are involved with X.

I encourage you to move forward...that is something I want for you. But move forward alone for now and really find out where your heart lies. Spend enough time alone that you can look at each of us without the shadow of the other falling in your eyes. When you need neither of us....is when you are truly free to choose.

I have already forgiven you, and I still choose us.

rr

thanks starfish for taking a great deal of time in writing the reply you gave me and the letter you suggested. i will talk about doing something like that w/SH tomorrow. i bumped a post of mine that i did last month about a conversation i had w/H and 2 letters that i had my H read. the only thing about the letter you wrote is when you said "if you truly want to know whether there is any hope for our M..." i don't think he thinks this at all, hence the letter he sent me. i would agree w/what tinman said about the WS thinking it the A would be held over their heads for the rest of their lives & i think a big part of it is also that they (the WS) believe that any changes we (the BS) have been made won't last past a few years. afterall, he is just so happy right now, so alive, feels like such a man now.

anyway, i am also realistic to think that i might have to do a plan B or that it might take my H getting out on his own to wake up but i'm trying to be cautious and not do things in haste which has been my trademark in the past. thanks again and God bless.

wow -- what Star said!!! great letter <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

and RR, what I like about it is that it is NOT trying to educate the WS, it is all about how you feel...doesn't matter that you've said it to him before...

in fact, my H told me that he took out my letter and read it over and over again...actually, it went in and out of his wallet so often he wore out the paper...

don't anticipate the result on him (nor expect anything in particular in the short-term)...it is enough that you have made YOUR best effort...go grrl! awed

rr,

The only think that I'm expressing in this letter that hasn't been said in the others is your depth of commitment....and by all means, feel free to cut and edit. You are not giving up. You still intend to correct those things you can. You are not ready to throw this away. You do not want a divorce and that forgiveness is already his. That may fall on deaf ears....but still needs to be said. Sometimes, marriages can't be turned around. Believe me, it's hard to build happiness on the misery of others....don't be too sure that he is completely happy. Complete happiness is a product of feeling good about what you do. The letter he wrote, sounds like a desire to get your approval and sanction to just move on. Don't give it to him. Let him know you aren't ready.

thanks starfish, that made a lot of sense. i just got off the phone w/my mom and she said something similar. it was related to my career aspirations or what i have done to get me to that career and she felt that the letter my H sent addressed this and she feels that i need to make it clear to him that my interests or career aspirations (forensics) is not in my future anymore or that i don't have a desire for that anymore, which i don't. it's not worth it to me i did a lot of things for me and my career at the expense of my H and my M, i tried to tell myself it was for us because if i had a job i enjoyed then i would be able to be happy w/H (for lack of a better description). my mom said that she still thinks my H feels that i don't need him, that i can go on and be successful. i know i can but don't want to because it has cost me too much. i might feel differently in a few years but not any time soon.

again, thanks for the comments and will discuss the commitment level w/SH. the only other thing is that i have been hell-bent on doing what i want in my M and i guess i'm trying to do a balancing act between working on my M, telling my H i'm not ready to give up, and him just perceiving this as something i'm doing regardless of how he feels. God Bless, RR

<small>[ May 18, 2004, 11:49 AM: Message edited by: roughroad ]</small>

RR...

Your H is a conflict avoider. By bailing on you and the marriage he is running from the unavoidable conflict of recovering.

He says you've helped him "grow up". He hasn't grown up. This letter is an example of the same childish behavior that got him into the situation he's in.

Don't let the high noble self sacrificing sound of this note make you think he's any more out of the fog than before.

Low

thanks low, of course you're right, he hasn't grown up and as soon as i read about the conflict avoider concept i knew that's what my H was. i know what he has said is mostly fog talk and besides God that's one of the things that's getting me through this. because i'm sure he is going w/what he is feeling now and using that to really get me to see how bad things were. i know that we didn't have a perfect M and that i was not the W i should have been but i also know that there are many people in the same position we were/are in and i guess that's how i approached many things in my M. that i knew we weren't the only married couple to experience what we were or weren't.

i am just not sure what i should do w/my H now that i have this letter. i will probably go w/SH's stamp of approval on whatever he says but i am still trying to gleam what i can from what others have posted as well for me to do. do i do nothing? talk (try to anyway) like i didn't get it or dismiss it if he asks if i got it? do i call him and say something? do i write a letter of my own?

the lady who is an attorney in our church called and i gave her most of the story. she didn't really say a lot but put a spin on things that i hadn't really thought of. she said that since we were married for at least 10years and one of us were in the military for that time that i should start w/the base legal office. my H has been out of the military for 4 years and i've been out of the military since september so first of all i didn't even think i could talk to anyone there. she said i shouldn't rule it out and that he is probably entitled to half of what i have. my thought was even in the case of infidelity? we didn't go into that. she did say that since the house is in both of our names that my H can't sell it without me. i'm not really comfortable talking to someone on base, i think they would give me information but i think they would try to tell me to do stuff that i'm not willing to do and think i was stupid. they don't have a vested interest in my situation and they are overworked like everyone is in the military.

she said that they might be able to refer me to some of the civilian lawyers in the office and i asked what i things i could ask or look for in an attorney that would make me think i had a "good" lawyer. she said that anyone i talk to her in this area is generally only going to know the laws of this state and not the laws where my h and our house is. they could find out but they won't be well versed. so i thanked her for her time and just thought more of what am i supposed to do? i have a Sheperd's guide phonebook that lists some attorney's that are Christians but still i don't really have the money and what are they going to be able to do for me? so i tried to think of everyone my family knew or maybe was in my mom's church, etc. and i remembered i had a cousin who was a lawyer. can't believe i didn't think of him before so i called my mom who is yet in another state.

she said she couldn't believe she didn't think of him either (he's a distant cousin) but that he did work for the state and probably had some dealings w/other states and would probably be able to point me in the right direction. at least i would be able to trust him and he's a Christian and also, my mom said that he's been where i am. i didn't know that. she said that his first wife left him and he didn't think he could ever get over it and almost didn't. but know he is married again and they just had a baby last fall and he is happier than ever. so he would be able to relate to me on that plane as well.

i'm well aware that people go on to be remarried and have happy lives etc. i'm glad for those people and there's many of them here and i know several personally. but i'm all about be able to look back and know i did everything i could. so my mom asked if i would like for her to call him and i said yes. she asked what she should tell him and i just said as much as she can because i want to be prepared for anything and everything. so again, God sent someone my way that was under my nose all the time. i'm sure anything my cousin can find out or tell me will be helpful even if it's get a lawyer in such and such state.

just thought i would let you guys know the latest, prayers to all of you.

pep, of course i read your post after i sent my reply to low orbit. when i was at our house in march i did the picture thing. i left some pictures and notes in various places around the house. i don't know what he thought of them because he has never said anything and i haven't asked. i got a picture of me on our wedding day and left a note w/it that said i was the same woman he married and that i was coming back because of him and said thanks. then i got another picture of us that was taken within the first 6 months we were married. it was of me and my H kissing in front of a field in korea and it was taken by a friend and i left it in the bathroom w/a note that said that it wasn't too late that it could be better than ever. i left another picture of us standing together in a garden in nova scotia where we went for our 5th anniversary and a note that said that even if i wasn't by his side physically i was there in spirit. the last picture i left was of us at one of his brother's high school graduation, we looked great and i said something along the lines that we had the tools now to have a great marriage, etc.

i also left some quotes around the house and a letter on the TV. he wasn't staying there when i was there so i left those things around the house and then left to come back to where i live now. i could still continue to do those things but i don't actually have a lot of things w/me. i brought the bare minimum w/me to come here last fall because i knew (or thought) it wasn't going to be a permanent separation. anyway, i'll start working on a letter even though i may just read it to him instead of sending it. afterall i want to make sure he hears/reads it and doesn't just throw it away.

thanks once again, prayers to all.

RR,

I agree with everyone here, especially star*fish and loworbit. I think your husband's letter is a bunch of fogtalk. It certainly did not sound 'grown-up' and would not get too worked up about the divorce talk unless he actually files for it.

I think it is a very good idea to talk to your cousin-lawyer and I'm sure that he will be able to give you some good ideas and helpful suggestions. Regarding the military stuff, I'm not sure if he is actually entitled to 50% of anything that you have. Do you have a military retirement? I think it really depends on the circumstances, but I think it is best for you to get some good legal advice and know your rights and protect yourself. Other than that, I would just continue in Plan A as best as you can.

My thoughts are with you.

Kati

thanks kati, no we don't have a military retirement and that's why i'm questionning what she said. as well as the fact neither one of us is in the miitary anymore. but at the same time, i don't want to leave any stone unturned and don't want to get blindsided on any front. we don't have anything except the house and a lot of bills. so i'm not sure what him getting half of anything would do. if he got some of my salary for instance well he's also going to get half the bills too.

thanks for reaching out and posting to me, God bless, RR

RR, you are getting a lot of good advice here. I feel that i am not capable of saying any smart things. I just prayed for you.

{{{{{{{{HUG}}}}}}}}

I wish we are closer. Starfish's letter is so inspiring. I may want to write one to give it to my WH.