By whatever I have read from your posts she is trying hard to be the wife you deserve. I guess "Actions are better than words". She is showing through her actions how sorry she is. She will come around. She surely must see how much you love her. It is so evident on your posts and you would not be so hurt if you did not love her.

Bob,

You wrote: "Once. I want a heartfelt apology once. Just once. "I am sorry I had an affair, it was all wrong and I regret it. It was not justified in any way". And I could leave this sack of rocks by the side of the road and walk on."

I received several of those kinds of heartfelt apologies after D-Day 1. Very sincere. Very. Didn't make any difference. She was still seeing OM. For another five years.

Although they are very nice to hear, and I hear them occasionally again now, I have to recommend filing them away in the wait-and-see bin. Those words don't matter nearly as much as action. Or lack of action, I suppose.

In my case, I notice the less often and dramatic her statements of regret and sorrow are, the more they seem to be believable. An almost inaudible request for forgiveness late at night when I am nearly asleep seems to be coming from farther down in her soul. From some part of her self she kept locked away for a decade. It's those barely discernable indications that mean the most to me now. And there seem to be more of them (but still rare) as we approach a year and a half from D-Day 2.

The world makes little sense Bob. Sorry.

Been here...I'm almost 2 years into recovery and oldtimers on here told me it would be a good 2 years until I was 'recovered', at least that was the rule of thumb back in the day. I have about 2 months to go from the two year anniversary of the NC letter being sent.

The first year was the hardest, at about 3 months, 6 months, 9 months, and a year I had a crisis of not feeling like our M was progressing...feeling stuck...and worried we were going to go back...

That's the fear isn't it, that we will get cheated on again, or at least have a M that FEELS like we are getting neglected and betrayed like before.

There comes a time when your Taker comes out...you've been fulfilling those EN's and holding back the LB's and you say in your head, "What about me?" I felt I needed to be compensated for my pain...or over-compensated...

Each spin into this cycle was a new challenge for me...it was time for me to ASK for what I wanted in a convincing, humble (non-LB) faxhion, and for the conversation not to end up in an hour-long talk about our R...

At each hurdle I was ready to ditch the whole M, was tired of trying too hard...wondered why I was happy most of hte time, and was I getting fooled again.

I had to ASK for reassurance, set up a system with my H that I asked for what I wanted...for instance, if I paid particualr attention to my hair or makeup I would say..."Tell me how pretty I look..." and if I wanted more I would say, "...more, more, keep it coming." I'd make a joke about it, and it would be fun...but waht I needed.

You need a heartfelt apology, you need remorse...ask for it...say something like...

"I know the A has really hurt you, and you want to wish it from the front of your brain, but I need reassurance you feel bad about it, and that will give me hope to keep going, and that it won't happen again..."

Friends its very comforting to read your examples. I do know insie that we're progressing well; that I have experienced the rollercoaster ups and downs before in recovery and that thsi is just a down. But the anger and hurt are just as real when these downs occur.

Recovery downs are PASSIONATE downs noit just dull, lifeless ones. I guess because pretty much everything else in my life since the A has been progressed ACTIVELY, then problems will be ACTIVE also.

The main frustration I have right now is that I am a recovered conflict avoider. I stuffed conflict for years in teh hope of happiness when all I was doing is fuelling Squids entitlement.

Right now Squids mom is dying - she is full of cancer and is suffering strokes. At 87 she is doing magnificently well to still be alve and smiling most times, but she can't have long left.

It is NOT the right time for me to press for 'me' resolution right now. I feel that as a husband I should be supporting her without inhibition through this time. I must continue to do this, but it feels like an excuse to conflict-avoid to me inside.

this is not true, and I hope by writing this I exorcise the thought.

It is RIGHT that I should invest my love care an dsupport in Squid at this time without making her confront the things I needs following her affair.

Based on thsi we had a discussion last night. I was very gentle and said that " Sometimes I get sad about us, and when I do I just need to be held and kissed. At some time we have more talking to do , but for now just you holding me and loving me is enough. I love you."

Squids eyes glaze over she she came over and held me like her life depended on it.

Then ( as usual since we resumed intimacy after her affair) conversation just rolled out of her. Sport, friends, wants, aspirations, dreams, fears...just came tumbling from her as it does so very often.

I never knew conversation was such a need for her until her affair. In truth sport talk hurts me, but again this is not the time to make a big deal of that. My shoulders are broad enough to be what she needs at this crisis time.

I just wish Squid would realise independently of being asked that a heartfelt apology is needed.

Aphelion most of Squids actions ar ethose of a contrite and repentant wife, but the words mean something to me. Squid has alwasy had difficulty with attribution - that is accepting blame or responsibility and making amends. And my CA has allowed her to do this for years.

But she must overcome her reticence to apologise to me some time soon else I will live with regret.

Life improves...thanks again all..

Bob, I am glad you wrote all that cause I have much of the same thought in my head about the OW and the way my husband is handling himself in our situation. It is unreal how they can just sit back and let us think all these un answered questions and say OH your being silly or childish. I don't remember how long it took me to stop thinking those kinds of thoughts when my first husband cheated on me the First time. But he did it again so we divorced. That is another question on my mind with this one do it again. Probably. Well I admire you for trying. I have still not decided whether or not we are going to stay together. thanks for the incite.

Bob:

I am not trying to downplay the importance of a voiced apology to you. I understand that need.

However, this is a form of an apology that I often see in my FWH. This is your description of your W:



She is saying "I'm sorry" but not in words.

Had a wonderful 2 x 4 all typed..and poof...

the gist of what I said was....

You are making excuses again like the good CA you are. There wil always be more and more reasons NOT to talk with her...just do it.

Recovery is about learning to do it differently, it doesn't have to be a fight. Ask for what you want without an argument, this is your challenge.

You sitting back and EXPECTING her to apologize and not getting it, will build up resentment in you...even more resentment I mean. She can't read your mind...and EXPECTING something from her without giving her a clue about what you want is dishonest, not fair, and not marriage building, but marriage breaking...

I know, I know, you can argue she should just know...you Have given her clues (like the exasperated expression you get when she talks about her hobby...) Not good enough bucko.

Do you talk with her more than you talk on here? If not, why not?

SHMIley I have talked with Squid endlessly about this stuff. She knows I feel I have not received a direct enough apology.

This lunchtime Squid and I went for a Thai lunch and we talked and talked and talked.

I said I love her enormously despite the [censored] she put me through,and she said "I know and I'm sorry, but know I love you SO much".

I won't press it because of the other more important issues in her life right now.

I have examined and it is not CA to have compassion during such a life-defining time of sadness for her. If you think it is, well, we disagree, friend.

Thanks for all your comments though. I am confident I have said 'enough' for now and we can resolve all this stuff when the time is right ( after MIL is dead and we have grieved).

Bob, first ((((BOB)))) and :P,

Now, I have said this before, maybe Squid is not yet able to hold herself fully accountable for her actions, therefore an apology would be an admittance to wrong doing, a wrong doing she is not yet ready to face.

I'm not saying she doesn't know it was wrong, but I'm guessing she is still justifying, therefore, she is not yet holding herself accountable.

Much MB love, my friend - Jelly

I guess I'm unclear about this...

What do you want?

How do you know you haven't received it?

How does squid know she hasn't given it to your satisfaction?

Why do you need it? (Or how often?)

Think about each of these questions carefully...and why you can't ask now? Because what you are asking for are not the words, but the remorse, the sorrow behind it, and asking her to be remorseful about the A at a time when she is grieving her mother is cruel...correct?

My challenge to you is that you have an EXPECTATION about what kind of remorse you want her to feel, about what kind of reaction you want from her...this reaction you want is not about HER, but about YOU and YOUR expectations...what are you going to do about that? My suggestion, talk with her about YOU and YOUR thoughts...let her decide what she can or wants to do about that...but this is something YOU need to resolve within YOURSELF...

And you seemed to rankle when I suggested that the excuse of not bringing this up right now with the events occurring on the home front with Squid was CAing...may I suggest that you drop it now too then, that perhaps you resent having these thoughts, or that this grief for your MIL is bringing up thoughts for you...what is truly behind these questions may be the grief you feel for the loss of your MIL?

Bob, I think you want the same thing I want and cannot get. It's not so much an apology, because I get "I'm sorry I hurt you" and it seems you get versions of the same.

What we are really looking for is "DEAR GOD, I WISH I HAD NEVER DONE THAT. I WISH I'D SPENT THAT TIME WITH YOU INSTEAD OF WASTING IT WITH OP."

We would like to think that they regret their actions and wish they'd never done them, but I think you and I both know that's not the case. It is sickening to know that even though a (F)WS is "sorry they hurt you," they will always look back on their cheating as a great fun time for them. It will always be a wonderful and exciting memory for them. They might regret f***ing up their marriage, but they DON'T regret the fun and excitement and attention they got to enjoy while f***king it up.

We've gotten apologies.

What we'd like to see is genuine regret for their actions.

Does that make sense?
Mulan

I want some questions answered and an apology.

I want to know if Squid still believes some of the statements ets she made soon after D-day.

And I want to know what she is sorry for her affair.

I have have learned what is CA and what is decency. Not pressing for this now is decency.

Doesn;t mean I can't moan in here though ;o)

Mulan

I would like to know she really regrets her actions. But I can't manipulate Squid into that. Nor would I want to hear those words if they're not meant.

But I'd settle for an apology.

I haven't had one yet.

Bob,

I think that your apology will come years down the road when you and Squid share an unspoken moment and perhaps a clutch of fingers that say" Thank the Lord we have each other". Words.....actions .. all subservient to time. The great educator.

I agree with this!

TIME AND PATIENCE....

Hey KY !

I cede to your personal experience on this one.

It stings a bit to have these things unresolved, but its small fry in the face of what else we got going on.

I think she realises what she did was very wrong not just sinful but wrong FOR HER HEART but is too ashamed to face it.

I love her though., And she loves me.

I got dressed up really nice to take her to lunch today and she was like a giddy schoolgirl in love with me. 'cept she had fantastic marimbas. OY VEY ! yes !

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

{{{{KY}}}}

I think so too. In the words of that overblown song Time Love and Tenderness have paid me huge dividends since Squids affair ended.

But I need to vent somewhere right ? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Thanks guys

Why do you want to hear an apology?

This is important, because your answer to this question will guide the way you ask her for it...

I needed to hear remorse to feel better that he was truly over it and was not pining for the OW and I felt more confident he wouldn't do it again.

My apology came in the form of him yelling at me, "I feel so bad, I don't want to think about it anymore. I feel like a bad person..." I needed to hear that.

So why do you need to hear it?

Bob,

You broke my heart with your questions.

She must have remorse....NO?

Show her the list....Or email her the list and ask for answers. What could it hurt?

Some of the questions cut deep.

How much do you think about it every day? As much as 6 months ago? If yes, then that is not a good thing.

Counsling should be considered. Maybe just you, if not Squiddy too.

I love you and all your goodness. I don't like to see you sad. (I am not gay!)

k

SHMIley

TRULY why I want an apology ?

Squid said some things just after d-day that if still true would mean I would not stay with her.

She said that she was not sorry or guilty for her affair, lying , sex or manipulation, only sorry that she was caught and she hurt me.

She said that OM was a better man than me in every possible measurable way.

She said OM was the 'second great love of her life' and some other stuff.

Yes, fog , blah blah but I have heard a retraction only of the last one.

If Squid is STILL only sorry she hurt me, but doe snot recognise the wrongness of her actions I cannot remain with her.

If Squid , knowing the facts now, still believes that OM is a better man than me, or even barely decent against a common yardstick, I cannot remain with her.

A heartfelt apology or at least a recognition of the true facts of the case ( not just my interpretation of them)would allow me to unclench the fist in my guts.

Krusht, thanks mate. I'll be OK. This 'coaster has brutal down rails <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I'll be up again soon.


{{{{krusht}}}}