Some of you know my story but here is the quick picture. My wife of 8 years left me for a neighbor last October. The affair ended in December but she remains "friends" with OM. I have been pretty much in plan A since December. I REALLY want this marriage to work.<P>My wife says she loves me but is not "in love" with me. She has encouraged me to date other people if I want to. I mainly think she suggested this because she thinks it might relieve her guilty conscience.<P>Anyhow, I am finally considering dating. I know a couple of nice women who I could go out with on friendly dates (no sexual stuff). Frankly, my main purpose would be to see if this might finally wake up my wife to the fact she really does love me and may lose all we have built. She has even made comments to me about being jealous of women who are interested in me.<P>My Christian counselor thinks this is a bad idea but I'm really beginning to think it is a good idea. Any thoughts out there? I really need some feedback.<P>Thanks,<BR>Struggling.

WHAT?!?!?!?!<P>You are kidding, right? This puts you in the SAME category as SHE's in right now. Cheating on the marriage.<P>For one thing, she can come right back around and cry, "Unfaithful" and divorce you on those grounds. In other words, don't give her any reason to see you as anything other than a faithful, loving husband.<P>Please reconsider this option. I know you feel this is the LAST resort, but I don't believe this is wise. Listen to your counselor, have him give you alternative courses of action.<p>[This message has been edited by Maya (edited April 27, 1999).]

Struggling -- I have fought the urge to go on non-sexual, casual dates with male associates. My H is still in the home although he sleeps in another part of the house. He says he does not love me and we have agreed to let him work on himself through counseling, etc. before making a final decision to separate (although he hasn't done anything yet). It sucks being alone and unloved. We are vulnerable and even if the dates were supposed to be with "just friends" and non-sexual, I know (speaking for myself) that it wouldn't take much to get to that point. Probably isn't a good idea. I just talked myself out of it.

Well I tried to talk myself out of this situation for 1 month. I meant a gentlemen friend and we are just that FRIENDS. He is going through the same thing since October. We have so much in command. We just talk and we've hugged and a kiss on the cheek. Nonething else at this point. I don't feel anything wrong with going to dinner with a friend. Or even hugging or a little kiss on the cheek. I hug my good friends anyway whats the matter. This friend of my has helped me a great deal, and also has woke my husband up a bit. Read my post confused and I don't know what to do. Maybe I'm wrong but I guess I'll pay the price.<P>Good Luck in your decision.<P>Sissy

<BR>YOU GUYS ARE PLAYING WITH FIRE.<P>I thought I was "just friends" with the OM too .... and ended up ON THIS BOARD!<P>HELLO?<P>Guys and Girls CAN'T be just friends. Is anyone reading the posts on this site? You hugged? You kissed (even on the cheek?)<P>We got flags all over the field on this one. WAKE UP!

You don't date until after your marriage is over. Period. And that means divorce and post-divorce recovery period. Look folks: one way or another you'll be in a much different place in a year or so then you are right now---don't make it more difficult now by complicating YOUR life with an affair.<P>Sissy: you are wrong. If you don't stop, you'll pay the price. Please avoid this situation---it'll end up hurting you in the end. Find a woman who can support you in the same way.<P>Janie: good logic. I'm glad that you saved me the trouble of the lecture.<P>

<BR>Okay, sorry. I got outta hand. This topic has just given me the willies in a big bad way.<P>Please re-consider this though. You won't realize how deep you are until you're too deep to get out .....<P>Trust me .... I know.

Thanks to everyone for the quick comments. I admit that the idea of dating totally goes against everything I personally would want to do. I love my wife, I'm in love with her, and I don't want to find someone else. I guess I'm just getting desperate. I know that one day she will regret leaving this marriage, I just want that day to be before it is too late for us to reconcile. <P>I'm trying to find ways to send her a wake up call without losing her or my own dignity. Thanks again for the comments.<P>Struggling

My goodness have we all lost our minds? I mean ask your 'unfaithful' spouse how it started..I know what mine said, I had a bad day and she just asked me what was bothering me, you know she said she was a friend and was there if I ever needed to talk...so they talked...<P>Him: my wife got all over me about being late the other night...<BR>Her: surely your wife didn't do that, why I would never treat my husband that way...<BR>Her: you wouldn't believe what my SO had the nerve to say to me...<BR>Him: he should take another look at you and really appreciate what he has..I know I would...<P>And a few days later: we had just finished up reviewing an account and she just leaned over and kissed me good bye, just a friendly kiss on the cheek, never really thought of her as anything but another one of us account executives, at least not until she did that. <BR>Well, she had been awfully nice to me lately, offering to help and talking to me about my problems. No harm there. It just felt so nice to have someone appreciate me for who I am, just as I am.<P>Once that happened he started looking for her more at the office and she came by to see if he needed any more help with his accounts. Even began offering to stay a little late to help him out. How sweet of her.<P>One day we had an argument before he left for work, and while confiding in her that evening (while working on accounts), she leans over to hold his hand and console him and one thing leads to another...and I don't need to go further because all of us on this side of the fence have very good imaginations about what happens in these situations.<P>And that my dears is typical of how lots of affairs get started.<P>Do you really think your spouse walks into work one day looks around and says 'Hey, I argued with my wife this morning, she doesn't appreciate me, I need to be with someone who really appreciates me for who I am, so today I am going to look around the office and pick me out someone and start up an affair....'<P>Sorry I am in a TOTAL sarcastic mood.

This is very difficult. I think K is right, but I personally am not following his advice.<P>The problem is that we betrayed are feeling very victimized. We try to do a lot of things to make ourselves feel better. And frankly, it makes us feel a lot better to go out and have fun with friends, and better still to realize members of the opposite sex are attracted to us. It helps our self esteem, which has been shot down by the rejection of our spouses. Also, it feels like "why shouldn't I. he's doing it (and much more)."<P>But it is playing with fire. It has the potential to really complicate things should the wayward spouse ever come around. We also could fall in love with our opposite sex friend, and stop trying to save the marriage.<P>Major decisions, like ending or saving a marriage, should be made without distractions and with minimal amounts of emotional influence. Opposite sex friends are risky.<P>For myself, I have a very good opposite sex friend of ten years who I suspect is waiting for my marriage to blow up. I see him but I'm careful about it. I involve others when we get together and I try to limit interaction to every two weeks or so. I seldom call him, but I do talk to him when he calls. I limit discussion about the details of my marriage and he knows that I'm pulling out all the stops to save it. I have talked about holding off on dating until/unless I am divorced, and never suggested to him that he would be someone I would date. I have a lot of personal resolve and do not want to date now. At the same time, I want to keep my options open in the event that I don't reconcile with my husband.<BR>

WOW ! will we never learn?<P>IMHO K & Maya are right on track.<P>------------------<BR>Thank You,<BR> L

Well, let me add something here you all might just care to read...I'll try to be brief. I witnessed my wife's affair of 2+ yrs. Did all I could, tried plan A numerous times and decided plan B might be the trick. Nope, plan B did nothing more than make it easier for the 2 of them to get together. So there I was in plan B, getting nowhere for a year+. Finally I decided that it was all over, she wasn't willing to take any steps toward fixing things, although she claimed she would. It was all just to keep me around in order to pay the bills while she played with him. One day I realized I'd had enough and I called her and told her flat out I'm filing papers! She cried asking again and again what she could do to "fix" things. I told her to read everything Dr. Harley suggests again and carry it through, she promised she would. Well to say the least, she didn't. I took it upon myself to call Dr. Harley and get the ball rolling. She was to call him next while I did the assignment he gave me. This was 3 months ago, she has yet to call him, or do anything else she's suppose to do for that matter. As you can figure, I decided to move on with my life. One night I stopped for dinner on the way home from work and sat at the bar and met a very nice young woman. One thing let to another, we exchanged numbers and had our first date. Being the honest guy I am, I told my (ex)wife all about this woman and that we had a date and such. She didn't act shocked at first, stating how she figured it was gonna happen soon enough. But it started to eat away at her. Now she knows that she has not only lost her lover (he decided to stay with his wife since they were now expecting another child - what a slimeball... ) but she also has lost me or is in the process of. Well now she's all over me. Every weekend I'm there to pick up our son, she's all lovey-dovey. Does she think I'm gonna fall for that again? I told her she needs to do what needs to be done, first step to call Dr. Harley and then do as he suggests. Once again she claims she will just as long as I come back. I told her I won't come back until she starts the ball rolling. That was 1.5 months ago...has she done anything yet? NOPE! Well, at this point I've had only 3 dates with this other woman and things are going pretty well. I told her flat out, nothing to involved yet, I want to resolve my issues first. So that's the speed we are going at. My (ex)wife still acts the same when I'm there and she can't seem to get the hint that I'm NOT coming back. I guess the story is that me dating and her knowing WAS her wake up call, but she's still hitting the snooze button and rolling over, but she's also realizing, I'm not on the other side of the bed anymore. I'm also afraid that when it does finally hit her, it's gonna hit her hard and I'll be sorry when it does. For I do still love her, always will, but it just isn't there anymore for me, I need to move on with my life and see to it I do all I can for our son as a father. Good luck.<p>[This message has been edited by Blues (edited April 27, 1999).]

Blues:<P>How do you explain your wife's behavior? It seems incongruous that she be all over you to come back, yet won't follow through on things you ask. I would really like to understand this, as I see some of this behavior in my husband (the not following through part, unfortunately not the wanting to reconcile part).

I have considered this. I even mentioned to his therapist that "Prince Charming would literally have to knock on my front door 'cause I'm not in any position to meet anybody." He all but begged me "Please don't do that. THINK! How would you feel if you did that?" And this comes from my husband's (and son's) therapist who should know better than anybody else where this marriage is headed - and who won't tell me a damn thing one way or the other, but I get the feeling he doesn't hold much hope.<P>DON'T DO IT. As lonely as you are... DON'T DO IT. We've all seen the hell that those who have affairs go through - not to mention what we who have been betrayed suffer with. And we like to talk about setting an example for the kids? Save that sort of thing for after the time when possible chances/opportunities for reconciliation have been exhausted and the divorce is final. It's just not worth it.

My idea of plan B is to cut all ties, finanicial and emotional. When my wife moved out, I told her that she was not to stop by to see me or the kids without finding someone to act as an intermeadiary for her. Her schedule and my willingness to accomodate it our what allowed her to have an affair in the first place. I don't think I could go through a prolonged quasi seperation that allowed her and him to get their needs met and me to get squat. I also don't think I would see other women, unless I knew my wife was not my wife anymore. I have been temped, but never allowed my self to go anyfurther. Good luck and get tough.

I had to add my two cents worth on this thread. During the period of time that my H and I weren't getting along (I didn't know about the OW), he used to basically challenge me to find someone else. You know,,,"I was such a lousy wife no one else would ever want me anyway,,, if he was so terrible and I thought I could do better go ahead & try,,,I wish you'd just meet someone else and leave me alone",,,and so on. I work in a male dominated profession, am not totally ugly and had many opportunities for dates,(contrary to my H's opinion at the time) if that's what I had been looking for. I never did. After I found out about the OW and we decided to work on our marriage, I asked him "What would you have done if I had decided to take your advice and date someone else? What would you have done?" He said " I don't know. I just knew you wouldn't. I knew you'd always be there." SOOOO,,what does that mean? Would that have made him "wake up" and end the affair sooner? I doubt it. I think we each would have gone our own ways, never owning up to our true feelings and it would have ended our marriage. Regardless, no matter how it would have turned out, I know I can say I was always faithful to him, I never forgot my vows, and I never "used" another innocent person to wake up my H. We've been in recovery for almost 15 months and things are better than ever for us. I hate what we went through to get here but the end result has been better than I ever thought possible.

Distressed, <P>Explain? Huh, I wish I could explain why she does this. Actually a little update. I got a call from her early this morning (now if she reads this BB she'll know who I am), seems she has now just started to realize what she has put me through and she's feeling extremely bad about it. (I'd say so!) She did admit that the reason for her "coming around" of late was the fact that she knew I was dating and she got a taste of what it felt like to have the tables turned on her. She didn't like it. (how about that huh?) She also, for the first time told me she had an emotional breakdown with him on the phone a while back and admitted that she knows now that he was doing nothing more than using her for the sex. He was NEVER planning on leaving his family, he just wanted to see if he could "catch" a very attractive woman and on top of that , a married one. Ladies, please, don't lump all us guys into the scum pool this guy crawled out of. We are not all like that. Some of us actually have morals. Anyways, she begged me to forgive her and to give her another chance so she can prove to me that her goal now is to make sure my needs are met and that I'll be happy and proud to claim that she is my wife. She also stated that it's about time she wrote "that" letter to him that Dr. Harley suggests. Maybe the next step will be her finally calling him..?? Well on top of all that, we are planning on meeting at some halfway point for a weekend getaway. Maybe we can finally get things straightened out, one way or the other. <P>All in all, I think her actions or lack thereof were just a matter of not wanting to admit they were wrong or atleast do the action that would show they admit it was wrong. It's just something they don't want to do...which is funny because the act they did and all the lies they made is actually harder than the simple acts that are being asked.<BR>Did that make any sense?<p>[This message has been edited by Blues (edited April 28, 1999).]

I guess I stirred up a hornets nest with this topic. For now I have decided to remain true to myself and not date. Thanks everyone for the comments. It just gets SO hard sometimes waiting to see if the lights will ever go on for our betrayers. <P>Its in God's hands now. I won't take his role on and try to get my wife to "see the light". Good luck everyone,<P>Still Struggling

You are smart to refrain from dating another right now. Let God work ... be patient. (ha--like I can even take my own advice!)<P>We're all here for you. Stay strong!

Stuggling.....<BR>I'm glad to hear you are going to "dodge" that bullet. If you did not come back to your post I was going to (and still am) suggest that you try plan B before you complicate yours (and someone elses) life any more. Remember that you will be bringing in other people into this mess, do you want to be responsible for that. Like the song says "don't be reckless with other peoples hearts"<BR>

Stuggling.....<BR>I'm glad to hear you are going to "dodge" that bullet. If you did not come back to your post I was going to (and still am) suggest that you try plan B before you complicate yours (and someone elses) life any more. Remember that you will be bringing in other people into this mess, do you want to be responsible for that. Like the song says "don't be reckless with other peoples hearts"<BR>