I first starting browsing this bulletin to get a glimpse of married life; I'm happily single in a committed relationship and marriage is around the corner. What I realized is that most of the postings are on infidelity. I started reading them and felt very depressed about the whole marriage thing. Perhaps I'm young and naive but why does it seem like everyone is cheating. If you have problems in your marriage or are deeply unhappy why not declare a separation - let that be the wake up call - but cheeeating! Why can't the unhappy spouse put a hold on the marriage until the other person starts meeting their needs? Infidelity is just soooo horrible. Shouldn't these spouses be held responsible for such an egregious act. Instead of desperately trying to regain the love shouldn't they be given the boot? No matter what a spouse does wrong - cheating is never justified? Right? Maybe not... For all those married willing to provide some insight I would appreciate it. I guess I really don't have a clue about marriage. Is this what I have to look forward to? <P>It seems like so few people are really happy. 50% of marriages end in divorce, are the remaining 1/2 married cheating on each other?<P>

Well the forum is on infidelity so what did you expect? No everyone is not doing it. But for those of us that have been effected by it , it sure seems that way. Its' like cancer to us. you got it and now you pay close attention to it and it seems like everyone has it now. <BR>If you are worried about an affair in your future you need to read Dr. Harley's writings because he has a good insight to the dynamics that make it possible. Then you may be able to avoid it. I never thought it would happen to me but if it did, I would have plenty of warning. When it happened, it took me off guard. I never thought it could happen so fast.<BR>I thought the way you did about an unhappy spouse leaving the marriage first and then pursuing a happy relationship. It doesn't happen that way. Unhappy spouses find a new relationship and then try to leave the old one. Most (about 90%) of divorces are due to infidelity. So if you can learn the dynamics of this now, you may be the skillful one that avoids it...<p>[This message has been edited by fighter (edited June 10, 1999).]

This is the infidelity board of MB, yes it is most frequented, but most people don't see the need to work on marriage until something is wrong. You're taking a proactive stance and that's great.<P>You are right infidelity is not justified. People should do just as you said, figure out with the partner what is wrong, but that isn't what happened to most of us here. Our spouses got into another relationship and we're doing our best to go on from that point, hopefully salvaging our marriages, not just "desperately trying to regain love". Many of us have long-term marriages, children, homes, businesses--lives so intertwined with our spouse that it is only loving and sensible to do what we can to encourage our spouse's return and not just give them the boot. It isn't as if the relationship, especially with children involved, ends with the boot. We will see our spouses the rest of our lives for graduations, weddings, baptisms, etc. It isn't as if divorce ends the pain, but a recovered marriage just may.

Remember also if you will read the material...<P>Harley says that if you are sure that you would never to it..You are even more susceptible to an affair...<P>If you believe that your spouse will never do it...you are setting yourself up for painful realization...<P>It is constant work...<P>But when running smoothly it is very enjoyable and much better than being single...

Sooooo True!!!<P>I said "I'LL NEVER CHEAT ON MY HUSBAND. HOW COULD ANYONE STOOP SO LOW?"<P>And here I am. Do not fool yourself, Saga. It can happen to ANYONE ... I mean ANYONE.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>It isn't as if divorce ends the pain, but a recovered marriage just may.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I never thought about it that way before, but what a great way to think! Thanks Lor.

In the last 3 months, 3 of my friends have found out about their wives having affairs. 2 of their wives moved out and one just found out last week.

Thanks for the responses. I absolutely don't think I'm immuned to infidelity. It terrifies me, that and just being plain old unhappy in a marriage. You might even say I'm a little committment phobic because of the risks. Realistically I think it would be hard to live 25-30+ years with one person and not make some major mistakes. I guess I just feel angry and disappointed about the reality of it. I am really happy in my relationship now and I'm afraid it will all change once I'm married...so they say i.e. sex, taking each other for granted, complacency, cheating etc... What Lor said about the spouse being so intertwined with your life really seemed to make a lot of sense. And what fighter said about it happening so fast without a lot of warning signs. Where there any? Did you notice any changes in behavior, attitude toward you. Do you lose touch emotionally with your spouse after marriage? <P>And about what Harley said about not acting angry. I just can't see myself not acting like a crazy person if my husband cheated on me. I would just be a complete lunatic...perhaps like Loranna Bobitt...just joking. Anyhow if you have any more insights I would love to hear them. thanks.

Saga,<BR> I'm glad you are asking questions like this now, fore warned is fore armed. Will your husband to be cheat on you? I don't know. No everyone doesn't do it, but like some of the others have said this forum is on infidilty. Don't get the wrong idea, no one says that an affair is justified, it isn't but those of us who are here are every level of recovery, some have had to start moving on with their spouses and some have just discovered the affair, some have just stopped affairs. We are all here to try and work things out, I can remember being young and saying that if my husband ever cheated on me his butt was gone, I had broken up with boyfriend for that reason. But marriage is a whole diffrent ballgame, I've been married 21 years and my husband has left me once for another woman, been so emotionaly tied up with 2 others that it caused us bad problems, and had another affair which I discovered last September. Did these things hurt ? you better believe it but when it came down to divorce, I couldn't do it you see I truely love this man with every fiber of my being, i have given birth to his children, we have been through h*** and back, why should I just say to some little skank to borrow a phrase for someone else who posts here, oh okay I'll just step aside and let you have my husband, I won't try to keep my marriage together. not in this life time I won't do that. Please understand I'm don't mean to sound harsh with you I really don't but till you've been here you have no idea what you'll do, I pray you'll never have to find out. <P>------------------<BR>Deb<BR>------------------------<BR>I could have missed the pain, but I'd have had to miss the dance- His Garthness Garth Brooks - The Dance<P>

When you are cheated on you are insane. It is hard to think, breathe, eat and just function. The lesson is that you are completely correct. Never is it ok to cheat. No more than it would be okay to steal from your boss because you think you are underpaid. I will never understand why people decide to do it. And they all say that it just happened to them. Bull sh--. I had a co-worker working hard on me a couple of years ago. He would come in every day and tell me about a dream he would have about me. They were all erotic and he was very sexy and good looking. But, I am married and so is he. I told him no many times. Not that I wasn't tempted. My H wasn't giving me any attention or sex at that time. But, I have to look in the mirror at myself for the rest of my life and I want to be able to like what I see.

Cheyba posted a topic this morning called "What do I do. My mom and friends think I am stupid for taking him back." There were some good responses that I think could help answer some of your questions about "the boot".<P>Also, you have a definate advantage. You've come looking for help BEFORE the trouble starts. I think we all wish we could've found this site before our marriages suffered. Read as much as you can hear and hopefully you can get your fiance to do the same. Good luck.

Saga:<P>I would venture to say that MANY (perhaps a majority?) of affairs happen because people don't know how to handle problems in their marriages. It can be VERY similar in committed relationships where one partner cheats on another. Perhaps there is no bond of marriage being broken, but there IS a bond of love and commitment that is being broken.<P>I know that my W's affair was unbelievable to me. We had drifted apart because we didn't work on the things we should have been working on. I was busy trying to study for the Texas bar exam. She was making new friends at work, and pretty soon, she began relying on one friend in particular: the OM. Before long, he made a move and she didn't stop it.<P>It sneaks up on you, just as the others have said. You become less and less attached to your spouse without knowing it. If you'd have asked me at the time of my W's affair if I thought things were fine between us, I'd have said "You bet." So would my W. We weren't unhappy, just not connected.<P>I never understood the phrase "Marriage is a lot of work" until this happened. My W and I had let our marriage slip because we DIDN'T work on it. That is the key. Always be honest with each other. If you find yourself keeping things from your spouse, you've GOT to ask yourself WHY?<P>I'm glad you're here. It shows you want to go into marriage with your eyes open. I applaud that. I wish I'd done it. Never thought this kind of thing would happen to me, but as Maya said: It can happen to ANYONE. You MUST guard against it.<P>Good luck.<P>------------------<BR>/// Lone Star * ///<BR>

saga,<BR>I think you are lucky to be here and I also think you are a person with a lot of forsight to be asking the questions you are asking. Keep reading and keep asking, it's better to find out all the stuff you can prior to getting married. They make you get a college education to be in a career but very little is required to get married most of the time. Have your boyfriend read this forum also. This is something I think every couple should talk about before they get married. There are also all kinds of books on building great marriages.... take the time now to study, it will put you in good stead down the road. Learn the signs of falling into the pit of infidelity so you can run, not walk away from it...<BR>Marriges don't have to go thru this.... take care

Before cheating I was insane, tired of being ignored, tired of saying what I wanted and needed, Tired of feeling rejected etc. Sure, it is not an excuse, but it sure isn't as if you say one day." Hmm, I am not happy, I think I will go cheat. "<BR>Remember this, when you don't fullfill your part of the vows, it is cheating on them. Yes, we are all human - the betrayers as well as the betrayed. <BR>"Pride goeth before a fall."

Dear "You win I Quit"<P>I don't think that anyone who has posted thinks that they are superior. At least I don't. But, life is full of choices and that is the bottom line. No one makes us make bad decisions. And, yes there are reasons but never excuses. Does that make someone inhuman? No. And I happen to love a cheater. And, I consider myself a great candidate to cheat. And I can never say I won't. One thing I can say is that it will be my decision. period.

My boyfriend has not been to this bulletin but he did read Harley's book. I bought the book and accidently left it at his apartment (no slips are by accident according to Freud). We got into a fight about something and he was feeling distraught and just picked it up and starting reading it. My boyfriend and I have talked extensively about fidelity but it seems more ideological in nature but it's only because we haven't experienced it. We really don't know how it happens...maybe because we are really in love right now and haven't experienced the day to day of living with a spouse. I think we take care of our relationship now but I wonder if one of us will get too comfortable. <P>I'm very glad to read some very insightful responses. It seems very scary that it can creep up without your detection. I hope that doesn't mean it's out of your control. <BR>For those of you who have been through it and back what are some of the lessons you have taken with you. What do you do differently now? <P>Lonestar - when you mentioned that neither you nor your wife would have said you were unhappy at the time but the infidelity happened despite that...what do you and your wife do to protect against it? what do you mean by "work on your marriage" - that phrase always seemed vague to me. <P>For those who have cheated on your spouse...was there ever a point when you said to yourself "I can't believe this might happen should I do something about my unhappiness (in my marriage)?" or did it just happen and hindsight is 20/20.<P>I was hoping to pick everyone's brain...I don't mean seem too intrusive.

Saga,<BR> first I'm sorry if I sounded harsh with you in my earlier post, i didn't mean to.<BR>Ok onto the questions, <BR> you can read my whole sad sick story in my post " just when I get it together I forget where I put it' its probably a page or two back by now. <BR> When my husband first left me for another woman i was floored, when he told me he had never loved me I was dastroyed, we had been married 8 years then. Were there problems ? oh yes, many many problems, but I would have staked my life that this man loved me deeply, and would never choose another over me, how foolish i was then at 28, too foolish. With that situation (he won't call it an affair since they didn't sleep together till he left, they had seen each other once and talked on the phone every day for a week, was that love or what)like I said I knew we were having problems and most of them were caused by my attitudes, temper ect.., what I try to do now (I'm not always sucessful, is I try to keep lovebusters to a minamum. That means I try not to throw fits, yell, call names ect.. and if I slip I always say I'm sorry and try to explain my feelings. I have to admit there are still many problems and it's not easy to put our marriage back on track, like Lone Star said working on a marriage Is work, but I have more hope now than I ever did before. Can I say I trust him 100% NO, will I ever again/ I don't know, I'm just trying the best I can, one thing i have learned is that you can't control what another person does, but you can help to "affair proof " your marriage, by learning what makes him feel loved cared for respected I wish I had, then this pain might not have been a part of my marriage and my life. would it have been a guarentee ? nope there is no such thing, but it might have keep this from happening over and over again. Keep posting, Keep asking none of us here want to see someone else where we are, no matter which side of the issue we all hurt equally bad. <P>------------------<BR>Deb<BR>------------------------<BR>I could have missed the pain, but I'd have had to miss the dance- His Garthness Garth Brooks - The Dance<P>

I, too, said that if he cheated I would leave. I never thought that I would care about someone like I do him. What i have found is that in this throw away world we live in, marriage should not be considered easier to throw out than to fix.<P>There is no good justification for cheating. The way it happens is through making a bad choice. Forgiveness is so hard but it is worth the rewards. I love my husband and want no other. I am willing to work on our marriage if he is willing to do the same. Thus far he is. I pray that it continues.<P>I hate how it made me feel and the anger I displayed when I first suspected it was horrible, but I think that the anger was part of what convinced him that I was willing to work on us. <P>I said until death do us part and I meant it. So many people don't anymore. When you say it mean it. And the part about "keeping yourself only for him/her" mean that too. Be honest nad loving and watch out for each other. YOu will have a rewarding life.<P>Good luck and may God bless your marriage.

Saga,<P>I will add something for you to consider among the excellent posts here that are filled with insight and wisdom borne of painful experience....<P>Pain and hurt are our greatest teachers and in the long term it matters less of how the learning was gained as to what lessons were learned......example: a person may learn about betrayal, anger, frustration, loneliness, aloneness, terror,insecurity,anxiety,loss, abandonment,powerlessness, lack of self esteem, lack of self worth, isolation, fear etc, from being exposed to infidelity of a marriage partner.......very true.....<P>yet those same lessons can be learned from death of a loved one, betrayal of a business partner/family member/friend, loss of money/work/job, going broke in business, no future prospects of work/place to live/friends to rely on/, misunderstandings between friends/associates/family,ill health, fighting between children and parents that isolate one from the other, war involvement, terrorism, family feuds, murder violence, corruption and so on.....very true and can be just as/or more painful as/than the infidelity example... <P>The lessons gained either way always will bring us to self realization.....to inner peace...to self love....to self care....to deep understanding....to compassion....to self empowerment....to breaking free of fear/pain/hurt/entrapment...to acceptance of self and others....to unconditional love....finally to spiritual essence/enlightenment/state of no need/peaceful coexistence/self knowledge/self love and acceptance/a one with all/to know the God I am within.....<P><BR> Consider this....<P>Cheating is a label of judgement we use to describe something we all do not think is right.....<BR>Would we all still use that same term when we reach enlightenment..? or would we say things like.....we must have chosen the experiences we have had because we needed to learn the lessons we have learnt in life...and the experience of infidelity was the quickest and most profound experience I could have chosen to bring me to self understanding and personal growth that I wanted...?....and therefore how could I considered it to have been right or wrong...? could I not accept that I needed the experience for my own growth to a higher conciousness...? maybe it was my own choice..?....or maybe my souls choice for my learning...?<P>This is philosophical I know.....but understanding of why we do some of the things we do can bring light to confusion, a gentle subtle healing to hurt pain anxiety and fear, a direction thru the fog of despair, and a joy to the discovery of inner power strength and love.....<P>You may not have choosen infidelity as a life lesson so may never be affected by its ravages.....but rest assured you may choose/have chosen something maybe just as/more painful should you wish/wished to learn the lessons that this life has the opportunity of offering to you...<P> take care<P>regards<P>cossie<P>------------------<BR>To know who you are is to see who I am....<P><BR>

Ubu,<BR>I did think I was above cheating...<BR>I wasn't posting saying that people felt<BR>they were. However, I feel often that the<BR>lack of understanding can at times seem prideful and I was definitely surprised by the ability to choose the things I chose after saying the same things many of us have said ie. I could/would NEVER cheat on my mate. <BR>Sorry if I offended you, didn't mean to.<BR>