Good morning guys!

Too much to tell you, but know that it was a great weekend and my H and I had a great emotional talk last night. He gave me an incredible piece of jewerly symbolizing a new beginning for us. It actually stirred up some bad feelings, but I HAD to let him know how I was feeling. It turned out to be a great talk, really sharing how we both felt and it ended on a good...OK, great night...I mean note!

True, I thought about you a lot because I was wondering if you looked up the bible verse I suggested? During the retreat, we did a thing on marriage and saw this 15 minute short film about Love. It really reiterated my belief that your H didn't love her. When I first realized that my H didn't love the OW it actually made me feel worse for some time because I kept thinking he did ALL this damage and didn't even love her?!

But after a couple of weeks of intense anger because of all the damage and he didn't even love her, I started to feel better about the situation. Knowing he did not love her (or at least he didn't love her the way he loves me, if you still aren't buying it True) made me put her in the proper perspective of what she really is and what she really meant to my H. It was a HUGE breaking point for me once I was able to take her off of the importance I had given her in his life and reduce her to what she really was...an OW period. Not the love of his life, not his best friend, not the woman of his dreams. She was willing. He would have found someone else because of the void he felt inside. She was just willing.

Anyway, busy day. Try to check in tonight.

True, please read the verse and mediate on it and ask God to reveal to you what it means.
Love you guys!
2

2,

Thanks for your thoughts. I will look up that verse.

True

I'm back...and it's not raining...at the moment!

[color:"blue"]YAY!!! No rain in Florida! NO rain here either!! Just heat and humidity. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

2, I think that you think that I think(hee hee...get all that??) my H was deeply in love with the OW. I don't think that, but I do believe that he was beginning to fall in love with her. He even told me that he felt that he was falling out of love with me at that time. I know he did not have the same kind of love that he has for me, you couldn't possibly acheive that in a couple of months...just as I also believe if you truly love someone, you can NEVER fall out of love with them, no matter what they do or how you grow apart. True love is unconditional.
However, where I really feel the "love" was taken was from that best friend category. She DID become his best friend at that time. He has told me that she came closer to anyone else to my status of best friend. I mean he taklked to her for HOURS everyday, and to me about 15 minutes(ok, that is an exaggeration...but that is what I felt like)....naturally he would be growing closer to her and farther away from me. That's just how things work. Had the relationship gone on longer, I think that she would have over taken me. I always thought that he and I were so close that nobody could come between us; now I know that is delusional thinking.

I hope that explains my feelings a little bit better.

I am glad that you had a wonderful weekend. I think I need one of those too. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

True <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> [/color]

True,

I don't think you realize that what you said IS exactly what happened to me. My H A went on for 10 months and emotional longer than that. He talked to her all day for hours too...me for 15 minutes...exactly!

He told me during his A that he "loved me but wasn't in love with me", you know that crap line they give you? I think he even thought he loved her. No doubt she HAD replaced me, in just about every way. He talked to her more, he cried on her shoulder when he was having a bad day, he bought her gifts, took her on 2 trips and we all know he was screwing her. So there, it happened, she replaced me and you know what True? Is he with her?! NO. Because if she had TRULY replaced me in his heart, he'd be with her. Love conquers all and always perserves right? So then why isn't he with her? Because what we had/have is love. What he had with her was lust and friendship, when boiled down is not really a friendship. Do you think it was friendly of my H to lie to her constantly and tell her he was going to leave me? Or lie and tell her we weren't having sex anymore (yeah right!)? No and that is what their entire relationship was built on. My relationship with my H was built on SOLID ground with a season of lies and deception. Their relationship was BUILT on lies and deception, that is why it didn't stand.

I just think you are focusing too much on his feelings for her then. What matters is what ultimately happened. If he loved her or cared about her as a friend, would he have hurt her so deeply? I told my H that all the time. I said, you didn't really treat her like a friend...don't you think? You used her pretty good to build up your ego. How is that a friend True? That's what your H did. He used her.

Ask God to reveal to you what love and friendship is. If you ask him, he will reveal it to you with clarity and better understanding...not just worldly views of love and friendship (talking for hours doesn't mean your friends. Co-workers and neighbors talk for hours in some cases and don't consider the other friends.)

Anyway, I will pray that God will release you from this bondage of fear that she replaced you. You are you! And FINALLY and maybe because of this, your H knows that now.

Love ya!
2

Do I have to be the first person to post everyday? Geez!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Hope you all are doing well...very busy week.
ttyvs,
holiday

Hey Rocked I'm here for a little while. If you are still around hit me back.

Had my bible study this morning. It went OK.
ttyl
2

[color:"blue"] Hey all...sorry I am on so late. I had a fun day with my girls. We had a fun morning of shopping <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> Then we saw the new movie Madagascar...very funny. Then we went to the local lake. It was a blast!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Last night my H and I had a long talk. I asked him to read 2's post and tell me if that is what happened...b/c I did not feel that way(sorry 2). He confirmed that parts of what you said was true(which I agree with) and that parts of it were not. He did view this girl as special. When I asked him to stop talking to her, he was hurt and did not want to. He did care for her and her feelings and wished they could remain friends...b/c he still sees her as being a good friend(if nothing else) during that time. I guess I am a lot like my daughter...she is very loyal to one person and gets really upset when that friend goes to another friend...she expects that friend to be as loyal as she is. I am like that and always have been. I do not need a lot of friends...I only needed one. He did not feel like I was completing him like I thought he was completing me. It is a jealousy issue...and I know I need to get over it. I am trying very hard.

Also, last night, I learned that he has been lying to me about some of the details I have been asking him about all this time. I don't really ask a detail question anymore, b/c I think I know everything I need, but sometimes they pop out! I thought I knew what the answer was(to this particular detail) but trusted that since he has told me all these other details that he would be telling me the truth on this already! He was not. They are not important things..and really I only brought it up as a joke( I can do that now). Then, I could tell that he was hiding something...so I asked him again. He sat there and lied and then looked guilty and then lied some more. He LIED again!!!! I told him, H..all you had to say was I remembered something just now and you were right we did do that. I would have been hurt, sure..but heck, it was MINOR. His lying to me was MAJOR. I can't believe that he does not understand that!!! I wonder now what else he has lied to me about all this time.

We also talked about how we are both tired. He is tired of hurting me(which is why he lied), and I am tired of acting like this hurt and depressed weakling. I am tired of crying everyday, and feeling down. I am tired of fighting myself on this issue. You are right 2 about him loving me now. He does...and I need to accept that he lost sight for awhile, but that he never STOPPED loving me(heck he told her all the time how much he loved me and how I did not deserve him in the least) and now loves and appreciates my love more. I will focus on that from now on whenever I think of him with her...or when I think of the things he SAID to her. As I told her(I wrote her in the beginning)...he said what she wanted to hear, but he FELT that way about me.

Sorry so long. I will be back tomorrow to talk to you all!

True <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> [/color]

Ok True, my turn to rant now.

I know your husband is reading this and I am glad, because I want him to know what an INCREDIBLE jerk I think he is. This girl was SPECIAL?! What the heck is so special about a tramp who is willing to throw herself at a married man? So she was his "friend"? What? He couldn't find a male friend, or one who didn't have an alternative motive?! What does that say about him? What does he think is a friend? Someone wiling to stroke his ego because his own self esteem is so low he can't find worth in having a loving wife, loving children and a family?

When this all first broke, my H had told me that the OW was "soooooo supportive" of him. And I said "Really?! She destroyed everything of value to you, everything precious to you. She was willing to destroy your family, make you a part time dad to your children, lose your job that you worked your way up to the top after 9 years of blood, sweat and tears, ruin your reputation that you held so precious, and make a mockery of your relationship with the Lord, and yet you call her supportive?! Amazing!" I think that really hit home for him because it made him realize that an ego stroking tramp who only cared about getting what she wanted (him) was not a friend to him at all.

True's H, a friend is someone who would say "Go be with that wife of yours you claim you love. Quit talking to me, tell her how you feel, have lunch with her today instead of me. Go home and make passionate love to your wife and quit coming on to me." That is a friend. She is what I've said all along an OW, period.

I think it is unfortunate that not only you True, but that your H continues to place this low life, immoral woman in such high esteem. Your H needs to get a grip and realize that ALL she was was someone to stroke his ego. He could have replaced her with a 100 others like her. Instead of taking responsiblity and saying "she was a low life scum bag I used to stroke my low ego" he tries to justify what he did by saying she was "special". BULL****! Don't buy it True. Just because he can't admit it to himself doesn't mean you should buy that this woman was "special" to him. Again, if she meant so much, he'd be with her.

Your H needs to be disgusted that he stooped so low to risk all he did risk for a sleazy, self absorded hooker! Once my H came to his senses (which I hope by now your H would have too), he became disgusted that he had an A with such a woman or ever even considered her a friend before this. She (like the OW in your case) is clearly troubled, suffering from EXTEMELY low self esteem and is an immoral floozy who cared nothing about herself or your H and all he was throwing away. True's H...this woman didn't give 2 flips about you! Quit making her seem so "special"! She wanted what she wanted without any regard to the damage it was going to cause you, or that of those you love, your wife and children. It makes me sick (really!) to think that you are buying into some B.S. that she was your friend or was special in some way. To me it sounds like you are sorry you hurt your wife, BUT this OW was special, so it was worth it. She was/is NOTHING! Accept that. You messed up big time by risking everything you had for a tramp. Yes, you did it. Admit it, quit making excuses.

The other thing that bothers me about your post is that he is willing to lie to you about some "minor" detail to spare your feelings, but won't lie to you about how he felt about this woman to spare your feelings. I think that makes him a JERK too! Fake it True's H! What better way to make your wife feel "special" by denying that your little tramp meant anything to you. True's H, haven't you seen the way it is eating your wife up that you have her buying the fact that you were falling in love with this woman so you can somehow excuse away what you did? I see it! And it should matter to you how much this one aspect causes her to suffer. So whether you mean it or not, tell her the woman meant nothing and you just couldn't face yourself for doing something so reckless with a common, random woman, willing to spread her legs for anyone that made her feel special. You got used True's H, just like my H did. Totally used by someone trying to do the same thing you were trying to do, feel "special or important" by allowing someone who means NOTHING to stroke your ego and your body. STUPID, WREAKLESS, DANGEROUS, WRONG! You did it! Face up! And if you still can't face yourself for doing it, then you keep kidding yourself that this woman was so "SPECIAL", but you owe it to True to let her know that this RANDOM worthless woman means nothing to you then or now.

So there! I'm done ranting. I'm glad that I can curl up next to my H and know that the OW meant nothing to him but to fulfill the purpose of ego stroker because he found himself in a place of low self esteem that had nothing to do with me. I think he cringes when he thinks about how he let this monster infiltrate our lives. He is disgusted by her and should be and that makes me happy. Not just that he has come to appreciate me, but that he came to realize what this woman really was. I hope you will soon too.

Good night!
2

Hmmm, I would say 2-I agree with most of your post.

Yes, the OW should never be considered "special". She was a stupid, destructive, manipulative, uncaring, selfish moment. Not a relationship, more like a spaceship.

But, in True's H defense, I think he meant he thought she was "special" to him at the time, not now (am I reading True's posts wrong?).

If I am wrong and he thinks this now, then this might explain True's feelings of not being able to move forward and why she's having these "images" flash in her mind all the time.

And yes, True's H should continually tell True and make True understand that the OW was and is absolutely nothing to him and that True is everything.

I feel WS not only don't want the shame of hurting us, but the shame of pulling someone else into their lives and hurting them also. I know, I know, why should anyone worry about hurting a conieving, selfish homewrecker into their lives, but they did and began false feelings, but feelings just the same and True's H may be still processing the whole thing. The healing takes time.

This definitely should be a topic for True and her H at their next MC session.

Funny, Holiday. I was going to clarify that this morning after having a night to sleep on this. I was going to say that I'm sure he thought his feelings for her were real and I'm sure he cared about her (I think my H did), but once reality hits he should NOW be realizing that both of their so called "feelings" were shallow and based on lies and that this girl is as far from "special" as a person gets!

I think it is wrong that True's H somehow tries to make this look better than it was by giving this girl the title of "special". I remember right after d-day (about 3 weeks), my H sat staring at the ground one day looking very dejected. I asked him what was on his mind and he said "The first rule of dating that I ever learned was to treat a ho like a ho" (sorry, this was his 'old' days). He said he couldn't believe that he let a common ho enter his life in this way. He was truly horrified he lost sight in so many ways and was in awe of how Satan was able to take a common ho and make her look appealing, desirable, "special" in his eyes. Just like the story of Samson. A "prostitute" brought down this mighty man because he let lust rule his heart. Very similar to my H.

Anyway, I wanted to clarify as well that by NOW, True's H should be able to see this woman for what she is. If he is still struggling with that, yes like Holiday said, discuss it in depth in counseling.

Have a blessed day! I've got MC myself today.
2

Hi 2 and Holiday,

First 2, I want to thank you for being so protective of me. I can tell that you care by what you write.

Next, I have felt many of the similar things. I think my H can be a jerk..and sometimes say to him..why can't you just lie to me and tell me that she meant nothing. Why can you just not tell me that she was a worthless piece of *hit. He just feels like he needs to be honest with me(yes, I know...he was not honest about those little details..but on most things he has been).

2, here is what I think...I think you are right, I focus way too much on his feelings for her. The feelings were real AT THE TIME..if they were not, he could have never been in that position. But, I should not focus on the past, but the present and future. Holiday had it right, feelings are feelings, even if they are misguided. Like you said, I need to focus on the feelings that are now and remember that he has always felt love for me. True love.

Plus, in the end...I want to snuggle in bed with him at night, knowing he has told me the complete truth. Knowing what he felt for her, and still chose me. I want to know that he can be honest with me about everything(which is why the other night bothered me so much.)

My H is truly remorseful and also cringes when he thinks of what he did. He wishes that he could erase everything from both of our memories. He wishes that he could tell me that she meant nothing to him, but then he would be lying..and I do not need any more lies.


Like I said, I thank you for being so protective. I really mean it. It is nice to know that there are people caring about my feelings.


True <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Oh Holiday...I tried to look up your stuff on ebay. I could not find it...you will have to let me know where to look <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Yes, he is being honest with you, but lying to himself. Like I said last night this OW didn't give 2 flips about him (didn't she dump him?!) and if he wants to live in la-la land like she was so "special" to him then he can. I just hope you don't buy it. He is lying to himself. Won't admit what a louse he's been. Shame on you True's H!

I'm glad you are able to see how much we care about you and not get upset at all the venom I spewed last night! I just kept thinking "how dare he! How dare he believe a tramp is special" Have him read Judges 16:1-20 about how Samson let a prostitute take him down. He isn't the first person in the world to be tricked into feelings for a low life hooker. I just wish he'd admit it...to himself!

Anyway I was pounding away so hard on these keyboards last night, my H came into the room and asked me what I was typing. I told him I was posting on the net. He seemed curious and I offered to let him read it, but he just said "that's Ok. I was just wondering" and left. If he ends up reading in the future, I'll let you know.

Have a blessed day. Off to lunch with my dad and aunt.

2

No, 2...he admits he has been a louse. He feels like scum of the earth...really! He just is telling me that he felt she was special and was a good friend AT THE TIME.
He has admitted that she is psychotic, and that he now realizes that. But, he can't change the fact that she did mean something to him then, even if he wants to. He cared for her, and yes, he knows he messed her up too. He said he knew that she had all these issues, and he said that he would be the one friend did not take advantange of her...well, I guess he forgot about that as well as his love and repect for me.
He was selfish...he knows that..that is the part where you were wrong. He is completely sorry for everything and takes full responisbility for his actions...he doesn't even want to blame OW, b/c in the end it was his choice, and he should have resisted no matter how aggressive she was(and boy was she aggressive).

Anyway...hope you had a great lunch.
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
True

Hey True,
I tried to send you an email but it's no longer good to give you my ebay info. Do you have a new one you can send me?
holiday

True, I'm glad to hear that. I guess instead of saying how much he cared for her then, he needs to let go of it (since it was all fake anyway) and focus on how much he cares for you now. Quit asking him about it too True. What are you getting out of it? Dr. Phil always says "How's that working for you?" If you are miserable hearing him say he cared for this girl (under the guise of being honest), then don't prompt him to say it! Plain and simple. I can't help but wonder what you are getting out of dwelling on his feelings for her. Feeling sorry for yourself, hating him, making him suffer? We don't do things repeatedly unless we get something out of it. Are you in some way getting something (obviously not something good, but something non-the-less) by dwelling on his feelings for her. Think about that.

I had a wonderful lunch with my dad and aunt and it made me realize how glad I am that I did not let the OW rob me of this joy, by leaving town and doing all that stuff. She took enough and my life is going on just fine without all the drama of job changes, financial issues and moving. I'm glad I didn't give her that power.

Lunching with my H next week and may see her. Good! I want her to see how happy I am and how good I look!
2

OH MY GOSH! ARE YOU GUYS SITTING DOWN? THIS IS HUGE. JUST MOMENTS AGO I GOT AN E-MAIL FROM THE OW.

Here it is:

Hi 2,
I just received this email as I was looking for a text message from my boyfriend. Regardless, I wanted to foremost thank you for the kind holiday wishes. You have exhibited a side of you that emulates the qualities of a christian woman as stated in the bible.

Secondly, to answer your question, (which you probably already know the answer too by now) the relationship between H and I ended prior to the call you made to me last November. After you found out about the relationship, H and I have never began speaking again on a personal basis. Our interactions are still and will always be few and far between and only involve work topics.

I have prayed for you and your family throughout this time and I have been thinking of sending you a card to simply say "I'm sorry". Once I saw this email, I was moved to reply. I apologize for the pain endured by you and your family from the decisions and actions I made involving H. I will continue to keep you in my prayers. But rest assured that the relationship between he and I is and has been over for quite awhile.

May God bless you 2,
OW

I sent her an e-mail at Christmas time, just about a month after the A. I asked her to let me know if H was still lying to both of us and if she was still involved with him. I never heard from her, until today...some 6 months later.

I am completely flabergasted, moved, awestruck, amazed that I heard from her and at what she said. I am not sure what I should do. What would you do?
2

2,
Simply accept it for what it is...an apology, and say "thank you." (Pray for her too). God could be sending you a message that it's time to move on "in every way" and release to your H the trust, respect and tenderness you may have been w/holding that he needs so much. To look backward, issue blame, say "but he/she..." in any way would be choosing to keep the can of worms open and alive when everyone else has moved on.

Just my HO b/c I want to support you and see your marriage thrive!

Thanks Rocked. I was wondering where you were all day yesterday. Are you doing well?

I felt very relieved by her e-mail and I feel I need to respond in some way. I guess I'm trying to decide now if I should do as you say and send her a simple thank you, or if I should also express to her how I too have prayed for her and hope she will continue to embrace Christ.

I have no intentions of looking backward and haven't for quite some time. I have prayed EVERYDAY for her salvation and so now I feel some sense of wondering if God is somehow, by her reaching out to me, calling me to reach out to her. It is very confusing to know what to do. I really am at a loss.

Yesterday in MC I told the counselor that we were doing well and that in just about everything, things are back to normal. But I did tell her that I times, even though things are going well, feel this tremendous sorrow...as if someone you loved died and though you go on in life, there is a void in your heart, longing for this person. That is how I feel, a void, a loss that peeks through sometimes even during the good times. She told me it was normal, to be excepted and will pass with time. Do any of you feel this way too?

Anyway, I am in deep prayer for guidance as a result of this situation. Please pray the same for me.
2