Holiday, this is THE OW who he still works with. This is her parents number. Apparently he called her there over labor day of last year...so yes, a 10 month old phone bill.

Any signs? He came home late last night! Said he'd be home at 7:45 called me at 8 to say he was on his way. Apologized and gave me the number of a co-worker friend of his to verify his story. I'm not going to do that. Seemed a little fishy to me. What do you think?
2

Old phone bill, old calls, don't think of it any further. It's been over by his actions for the past 10 months.
About last night, everything he does, like being late (mixed with the new number you found) will seem dishonest.

When my PT told me the tale of the girl at the gym etc...my mind wondered and wondered and didn't stop. Every little thing my H did that seemed suspicious became "suspicious" that whole week. Then my H would look at me and see my suffering and ask questions. I thank God that he gave my H the words to say to me and to relieve my worries.

Your H called you and left you a number. That sounds like he is truly trying to regain your trust.

2, bottomline, you and I have to stop this. We can't function can we? If our H's know divorce is our last ditch option, why wouldn't they just leave us for these OW?

I know, but I feel like I could have stumbled upon a way to know FOR SURE if they are talking behind my back. He knows I don't know her home phone number. I could get it and just double, triple check! The temptation to know for sure is killing me! I'll try to leave it alone.
Thanks!
2

2...I think more things will come up like this. Tests in life.
Do you feel like I do?, that now it's almost (don't really know what to call it) like an addiction?
It's like I can be so blanketed by the hurt that if I'm hurt even more, just alittle more my numbness might disappear.

I was told yesterday by my PT (he works with alot of women in my classes who I've met/seen) that a couple of the women told him I was very nice, but kind of standoffish, meaning...to myself. My insides were screaming "I wish you all knew", not so anyone would feel sorry for me, but understand who I am, that just a few years ago I was considered the "greeter girl with the big smile" with all the people downtown where I walked everyday. I told my PT that this is not who I am, that I am working to find her again.

Guys, I know it is the weekend and that everyone is busy. Sorry to post, but I am losing it here.

My H and I were up to 2am last night talking. I told him after 6 months, I still am not happy even when I'm happy. I told him that I feel a chapter in the book of my life is missing and I can't make sense of it. My life doesn't feel the same. I no longer feel fulfillment about being a stay at home wife and mother. I no longer appreciate home like I used to. I feel like he has all these answers to why he did what he did, he's discovering himself and what makes him tick. I'm left reeling with a year of my life missing.

I asked him if when he was stalking the OW and called her parents house over labor day if her mother was nice to him. Did they chat? Was she delighted her daughter was following in her footsteps? He wouldn't answer me. I wouldn't be surprised if my H met her mom, but he won't tell me. And I used that as my point. I said you have all the answers from the last year...I have nothing.

I really feel sometimes like we've made a lot of progress, but then I feel like it isn't enough. Nothing will ever be enough. The marriage I had is over...truly over. All I can do is try to build another one. Never wanted to do that. I was happy.

I know people say "your marriage can be stronger than ever if you get through this." I just don't see that happening. Our marriage was strong and happy. He didn't cheat because I was a bad wife, he cheated because he needed to feel special, seek an escape, build his pitiful ego. We had a perfectly good marriage, so how can it be better when I thought it was great to begin with?

He told me that on good days he doesn't think our marriage will make it. On bad days he wishes he was dead so my pain could go away. I told him even if he dies, the pain won't go away. It is here to stay and forever something could trigger it and the pain will come back. Memories of my dad's A's has done that to me over the years. So imagine the pain of my own H repeating the sins of my father.

He told me that he is frustrated that the OW has been able to move on with her life (Heard she lives with new boyfriend and talking marriage), but he can't go on with his. I pointed out that had he been single and free, he could do the same thing she is, but that one little ingrediant (wedding vow) now causes destruction forever. She doesn't have to look the person she betrayed in the eyes everyday and share a bed and share a life...I do. She was completely unattached and free to move on. He however was not and too bad the consquences are greater for him.

I feel so yucky today. Just want to walk away and never see him again. Waiting for the other shoe to drop and find out he is still lying to me and seeing her. Feeling like nothing we do will ever fix this. Feel like I go through the motions out of obedience to God. Feel totally unhappy and miserable. Prime candidate for an A huh? What was his excuse?

Anyway, need a place to vent because I feel so bad today. Pray for me and if anyone is around to hug me and share my pain, I'd love to hear from you.

2

2-

2...Your H was happy in his marriage on the surface, but not happy within himself. Have you looked at this with that in mind at all. This wasn't about you, it was all about him. Research why he was feeling this way. MC should be one on one with him. The bigger the ego, the lower the internal self esteem. She pumped him up while you were dealing with your children.


I really don't think you can get over that your H "liked" someone else and that is completely understandable, but maybe you were holding resentments about being an at home Mommy that you weren't aware of. Maybe he didn't feel the same way before and during the A.


I know per all the MC's and books that A's aren't about the BS, but I think it is indirectly. If it really has nothing to do with "us" then why does it hurt "us" so terribly????

2, Have you made yourself easier to talk to since all this? I mean really? Have you made yourself open minded to his words of what happened, to understand it all so he will want to tell you more? Are you truly on the road to forgiveness??


And, of course we can improve to make a better marriage! Of course we can learn to love again. We only need make it our choice.


I have this feeling you weren't happy before in your marriage as you think you were. You had a career. A place in society that called on you. And then you married man, had his children and became a "Mommy". Kinda deflating in today's society (I think you are great!) and it shouldn't be.


That's how I felt over the years. So after being a stay at home Mom, I went back to work. Built my ego, prestige etc. Earned money. Was away from home alot and you know what??? My children suffered, my family suffered. Find something that makes you feel good about yourself, but not at the expense of your family.


I never wished for this to all happen to our family again, but it did. I was and am a great wife and Mother. But, I can't control what he does, I can only pray he won't hurt us again. He is a great Father. The H part he will continually be working on and he is doing so and so is your H.


Here's my hug to you (oooooooooooooooox)! Don't give up. Don't let the past keep pulling you back. You and your H are a great team, had a bad season, but with work you could be heading to a future Superbowl. 2, you gotta want it!!!!!

Thanks for mentioning Superbowl. He spent his first Superbowl with her while I sat home.

You are stating my point. We talk all the time. He has all this understanding into himself and why he did this. He's openning up, sharing all this great revelation.

I on the other hand feel horrible. I loved being home! I proudly gave up my career to be "just a mommy and wife" and found great worth in that. Not anymore. I'm starting to hate it.

My dad and I have talked and I understand how he felt like my mother didn't make him a priority. She didn't a lot of times, but that is no excuse. Sorry, it isn't. He should have and could have found a better road, just like my husband but he chose reckless and dangerous behavior with dire consquences...just like my H.

My H wasn't happy with himself, not with the marriage per se. Now he isn't happy with either and neither and am I.

What did he think was going to happen?
Thanks for responding. Off for a couple of hours.
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Happy Father's Day Rocked!

I hope you enjoy it. You should be proud of the fact that you are a man who has been a role model and example to your children. Good father's are so hard to come by. Congratulations for a job well done. You should be proud of yourself.

Last year, I put all this effort into Father's day. Had my kids dress in my H favorite sport team outfits and had these adorable portraits taken. It was so cute! Didn't seem to make him realize the importance of them however as he continued to lie to us and "work" late so he could screw his girlfriend.

Didn't do much for him this year needless to say. Can he blame me?

We are talking seperation again. Will discuss with MC Tuesday.

2

2, just reading your last post and I think seperation is a good idea for you right now. You are still holding alot of anger and I don't see you moving forward until it passes. Perhaps you being on your own too will give you a better picture and understanding.
I will say a prayer for you and your family.
God Bless,
holiday
Happy Father's Day too Rocked and to 2's H and True's H!

[color:"green"] Hey guys!

2, I am sorry I was not here for you this weekend. I hope things have gotten somewhat better. I think you have hit the 6 months anger phase that I have heard so much about. You are happy that you have saved your marriage, but now all the anger and resentment and unfainess of it all surfaces.

I can completely understand what you are feeling. I feel the same way....even when I am happy, I am never truly happy anymore. There is always a dark storm cloud hanging over our head. It is just like a death of a loved one. You move on with life, but there is always a void...always something missing.

I am also with you when you talk about your marriage being a good one before. I think all marriages have some problems, but my marriage was basically a happy marriage too, with a lot of sharing and most important, honesty. I think my H was completely honest with me until the OW entered his life. I do not know why she changed him, or why he felt like he needed to lie about her, especially when they were "just friends"...but the fact is that he did. Even our first counselor said, after hearing all about us, that we had an extrodinary marriage that seemed to be strong and healthy(except the A). I also wonder how can I get better than extrodinary? How can people who are so "perfectly matched"(as my mom has told me) get any better? And if we were so good in the first place...why in the *ell did he feel like he needed anyone else? How do I trust that he won't feel like that again?

Our anniversary was this weekend. We had a nice time in downtown Chicago...went to the White Sox game and stayed in an awesome hotel. It was such a fun time, watching fireworks and just being together...but I kept thinking, "gosh, this would be so awesome if he had not ruined our marriage. This day would have been perfect." We did not say Happy Anniversary to each other the whole day, and I refused to open any anniverary cards. He said to me that he and I look at things differently. I look at us as having a failed marriage...he says it has not failed b/c we are still together. He stills sees us as happily married. I don't. I see everything as tainted. I suppose he is right and that I do view things differently than him, but then again, I am not the one who betrayed his trust, respect, friendship, and love. Maybe that is why it was so easy for him to have an A in the first place...b/c to him it did not mean the marriage failed. It was just some fun to enhance his own self image. To me, when he did that...he did fail, and I failed in my part as a wife as well. I did not "keep" my man.

However, I also told him this weekend that I DO forgive him. I think I needed to say that. I wrote him this big long letter, that pointed out all the vows that we said to each other on our wedding day, and told him that I still meant those vows, and that I knew that he did try to meet all of them. He did not believe in monogamy and actually resisted it for 10 years. It does not make what he did any easier, or justified in any way, but if I look at it like that, I do feel better. I told him that I offer to him all that I am..and still choose him to be my H. I was expecting him to break down and cry or hold me close and thank me or gosh I don't know....anything remotely similar to those reactions. You know what he did do???? Nothing . He did not thank me or tell me that he was glad that I finally forgave him or anything. He read it and just looked at me like I was crazy. He broke my heart in that instant. It took me days to get up the courage to sit down and write that(to admit that I DO feel like I have forgiven him) and then another day or two to get my feelings out on paper...then NOTHING.

I feel him pulling away from me, and I don't know why. I am afraid to know why, to be honest. I have done my best. I have treated him with love and respect, despite all my hurt, despite that emptiness I feel...and he still pulls away. I, too, am waiting for that other shoe to drop. I am waiting to find out that he is in contact with her, or anyone else. I am tired of being suspicious. I am exhausted with all that we have to do everyday just to make our marriage work.

Sorry this is so long. I guess I just wanted you to all know where I am right now.

Keep me posted on everything. I am saying extra prayers for all of you tonight.

True <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> [/color]

I know when anything like this happens between my H and I, I wait and wait for even a tiny shread of "something" from his mouth. The littlest thought, but I then remember, he's not me and also, he is a man and he sees everything so different than I do.

True, I don't think he knows what to do around you. Same as 2's H. Through your posts, your H's have sounded like they have done all that they can at this time and now it's up to the both of you to move forward. If you both think the marriage has such a hole and will never recover and is impossible to make a brand new start then don't waste any of your time any further doing so. What's the use?

2 and True, don't give up. No one's marriage is ever or was ever perfectly happy "all" the time. Not one person is happy all of the time and when you mix that with another the percentages go up and down. Marriage is a constant working unit.


I think maybe me posting here under my sitch may scare the both of you even more since you see that it can happen again. MB has shown me that every story has a story. That nothing on God's earth is set in stone, only God's love for us, for me. He guides us. I don't think he's keeping you in your marriage's to hold resentments and anger. How about going 30 days in "complete love"? An intimate, loving relationship, even if you have to fake your feelings for 30 days without words spoken of the past? We can't keep beating ourselves up for the rest of our lives.

Holiday,

You ask what's the use??? Daughter #1, #2, and #3. They are the reason that I will work til I can work no more. They are why I will stay here even if I feel a void. I will keep them in a family.

Don't get me wrong. I still love my H. Heck, I still view him as being my best friend...but I am also hurt.

My H HAS done everything in his power to make it up to me...and it is up to me to move on...but, for me, it is very hard. I AM trying. There will always be a void for me, but that does not mean that I cannot move on and be happy; I know that.

I am glad you can put this all behind you...and I hope to be able to do that someday too.

Thanks for your input! I really do appreciate it. And no, it does not scare me that you post that it can happen twice. I am well aware of that fact, so please, keep posting and sharing!!! I value it!

True

True...glad to see I put a little spark in ya!

That's what I meant to do with the "what's the use". Of course, for your family. But, not in the sense to take a beating of the heart or to be submissive.

I don't think I nor anyone can put it "all" behind them. I just choose to think of it less (when I make the concious effort...somedays are still hard).

I just don't want you and especially 2 right now to give up hope. I love you guys!

holiday

Oh and how about that 30 day plan I talked about? Start today...

I'll start today! My H is gone for 2 weeks! That will help me to be successful! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> kidding.

True, reading your post from last night was like I wrote it. My MC said today (just her and me since my H is gone) that it is obvious we were good friends...probably best friends. But that the level of intimacy needed for my H was missing. She does not think he even realized that he needed more of that. And yet, he is the one who has the biggest problem sharing his feelings...not me. She continues to work on that with him.

Sunday night we actually had a good talk. It was a horrible weekend and Sunday night conversation (Father's Day) was going the same way. But then there was a breaking point. I said something that made my H cry (hurtful) but then that is what it took to make him open up. Suddenly he was pouring his heart out to me about what he thinks of me. About how wonderful a person I am and that he loves me more than words could ever express. He recognized the pain he's caused me and the daily grief he experiences because of what he's done. He told me basically that he'd climb the highest mountain and swim the longest sea (he doesn't swim, but you get the just) to prove his love for me. It was beautiful. It was what I needed to feel better, to know he knows how much he hurt me.

Anyway, until this point, he kept asking me, "What do you want me to say? What do you want me to do?" Finally I said "Just admit what I'm saying is TRUE!" He struggled for about 10 more minutes, but finally when I pointed out something he had done especially painful to me and the kids, he finally broke down and owned it all.

I discussed that with the MC today and she said that is a helpful strategy. Maybe True, tell your H how you want him to react. I know it seems wrong, but it really does feel right when they do it.

Onto another point. I realize as I was rewriting my response to the OW apology that I am terribly jealous of her. I hate that because I'm not a jealous person. But I realize that I am SOOOO jealous of the things she got that I didn't, like Superbowl, and trips to Vegas, and lunch break screws in his truck. I'm jealous of all the conversation she got that I didn't, the gifts he bought her that I should have had, the compliments he paid her. I'm totally and completely jealous and I hate feeling that way.

On my final note, I discussed the reply letter with my MC today and told her I only desire to be courtesy and not let her know how much she hurt me like my MC had orignially suggested. She agreed for me, being polite is probably the best response. So I think I am finally ready to reply.

Keep you posted. Nice having you guys back. I miss Rocked though!
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True, I had this revelation today and was wondering if you find yourself in a similar situation. I realized that I forgive my husband for the ACT of infidelity, but am still struggling to forgive him for the pain he has caused me. I just am beginning to understand that those are 2 different things and I need to address them in prayer as 2 different things. I forgive him for being unfaithful, for having sex with another woman, for giving her his time, attention and affection. But it is the pain he caused me that I'm struggling with still. Does that make sense?

A couple of things triggered this realization. MC of course and a book I'm reading. Neither one, said this specifically, but this is what I got out of it.

So now my prayers will change. I will ask God to help me forgive the pain he caused. I kept thinking I'd forgiven him because I forgave one aspect of it, but now I realize I haven't forgiven all.

Wanted to share in case it helps you.
2

Sorry for the absence. Had a few dance shows out of town and some extra work on my abs to do. My boss is so anal about how we look to the customers. Have read most of the posts. Seems we're all still dealing with our stuff in diff ways. In general, I echo Holiday when she encouraged you all not to give up hope. Thank you for whatever prayers you've thrown my way. I pray for you 3 too.

Hi all!

Rocked.....HA HA HA HA!!!

2, As for your question...hmmmm.....yes, I do forgive my H for the actual act of infidelity, but the pain..hmmmm...yes that might be a different thing. I think that pain comes from the bond that he formed with her more than anything...and I cannot completely forgive that...but like I told him..forgiveness is a choice that I make every single second of every single day. So, it is when I think of that bond that I have to decided if I forgive it in that moment or not.

I do forgive the sex part, especially b/c I sorta understand that part, but I think it is more not fogiving the choice that he made. He chose a path that he knew could ruin all of our lives...so, that might be the pain you are talking about.

I guess my long ramble just means...yes, I think you are on to something:)

Keep strong...we can forgive everything in time..or at least that is what I am choosing to believe


True

Hi Guys! Rocked, welcome back! Any updates for us with you and your wife? How is MC going?

True, you expressed exactly what I was trying to say. The poor choices he made, the pain it caused me is hard to forgive. The actual ACT, I forgive. I even forgive the gifts and the trips she got. But it is the pain. He was supposed to protect my heart, not pee on it. and I think that is what I'm struggling to forgive.

Also came to the realization that I forgive my father for the pain he caused me, but not for the pain he caused my mother. She was a good woman and didn't deserve what he did to her. I think that if I'm able to forgive him that offense, I might find forgiveness with my H for doing the same to me. I have A LOT of work to do. Oh yeah, and I'm still pissed I have to work this hard for the problem he created!

Anyway, he gets back in town Friday and I decided that I'm going to share my revelation with him. I think it might make things clearer for him when I still get sad and angry if he knows I'm still trying to forgive some of it. I'm sure he won't like hearing it, but isn't that what we are supposed to do? Be radically honest?

Anyway, blessing guys! Pray for me and this stronghold. True, you know I got you covered!
2

Hope you are all doing well and have a wonderful weekend!
holiday