We got into it BIG this morning. I asked him if he wanted to discuss anything before we went to MC. I was thinking perhaps he had a weekend to reflect and consult the word and change his mind. He did not. He went into this speech about all the things I do that he doesn't like, but just has to take. I told him the things I do aren't wreakless behaviors that have proven to be a place of weakness in the past. We went back and forth. Finally I said "Do what you want, but there will be huge consquences if anything like this happens again or if I catch you lying about it because you felt I'd get mad. That is the rule. Do what you want...because I know you will." He told me I was being his mother. I told him to fly a kite and that was it.

Right now, we aren't looking to good. And you know what? I don't even care. What matters is that I will take care of myself and my heart. I will not allow it to be crapped on again. And I really feel this time (unlike last time because of the shock I guess) that if we don't make it, he isn't worth it anyway. It is so sad that I feel this way...but I do.

Let you know what happens at MC.

I am sorry to have got so frustrated yesterday and put my frustrated words here on my posts.

What happened to 2 this morning is what I am afraid will/would happen. I know you must think I am a submissive old lady, but only partially and with a big heart where my H is concerned. I try very hard to stop myself from going to the "dark side" of past and try to analyze it all out before talking to him.

Have either of you really, really studied the differences between men and women? I read so much and understand that we both talk such different languages. And like True stated "love languages" are different too.

I don't know how to articulate this other than we are dealing with "men". Yes, our tones, how we react and YES WE DESERVE TO BE ABLE TO REACT ANY **MN TIME WE WANT TO, but we will receive REACTION, so that is what I mean by our tone and adding here, our body language need to be on guard most of the time. If not, our lectures etc will be interpreted as being "his Mother" etc. I don't want to be my H's Mother because to tell you the truth, I don't feel she did a good job. I want to be his wife and friend...best friend, so that is how I choose to talk to him at all times...well, most times if I think before I speak.

Not going to a bar, not staying up late etc, will not prevent the next A. Yes again, these are triggers to hurt feelings if we LET them become that.

And both are sad choices on our H's part should they do it again once asked not to. But they have to decide that all by themselves. And if they do not decide to change, then we must decide whether they are worth it. No threats, no tantrums just quietly serve him papers.

2, I really do pray your marriage will survive all this. I wish too, that you and True were having coffee with me so you can see I'm not a hardened *itch or a passive wife. It's just that I have walked down your road before and I will tell you all my righteousness that "I" never could do anything like this to someone placed me so far away from my H that he just never felt even a bit equal to me with his love. That is what we are working to change this time. He was upset yesterday (I only wanted his "male" take on 2's feelings) because we had been there before. A place where I was ready for him to leave and I didn't "care" anymore. I had no feelings left in me for him on the inside. Perhaps that is why this all happened again. Who knows.

Or perhaps I might just be in a different league, so to speak, as my H's A's were not EA ones they were considered PA's. Still took a chase, but were short lived all in all. So maybe my take would be like your's on all this. I can only imagine how much more hurt you both feel.

I read the Monogamy Myth. 2, I don't think it gargage. I use that book as a guide to what people are going through in this world, Christian and otherwise.

And 2, I hope all goes well in MC today,

holiday

Holiday,

First, I do not think you are a hardened *icth...Just the opposite. I think your heart is very huge and very forgiving. I wish that I were the same. I do think you are more passive than me...but my H has always liked that about me, especially since his mom was so submissive. Different men like different things...so, it does not matter to me that you are less "independent"(for lack of a better word) than I am.

I have told my H repeatedly that if I had been in a similar sitch and feeling as low as he had, that I can not HONESTLY say that I would have never done what he did. I am not that naive. I don't think I would have, but I can't say that for sure. We never know what we will really do in any given sitch..do we??? However, I think you are not equal in the love that you and your H have...I think the BS(or at least all of us on this thread, from what I have seen) have much more love and respect for their spouse. The fact that your H, my H, 2's H or Rocked's W, could not hold on to that love and made a choice against us(and we have not done that)shows me that we love and respect our spouses more....and I do not think it hurts to let them know that we do(not rub it in their noses..but do remind them). In some ways, it says...this is what I want you to be like. I love you sooo much that I can fogive you for what you did...next time, remember that I love you that much. Does that make sense???

I am also curious about how you came back from having no feelings left inside of you. That is awesome and I hope that I acheive that myself. I DO love my H...and I would be very hurt if he had given me the same attitude as 2's H.

I do think that the EA part is much harder to get over than the PA. It is hard to know that your H has told someone he "loved" her...or that he treated her "special". Giving away what was supposed to be yours alone. I think all affairs are hard...but some aspects are harder to forgive than others.

2,
Listen to me. You sound so much like DogMom did before she decided to leave her H(I don't think I told you guys that...she is getting divorced). I want you to remain as calm as you can, and think about what it would really mean to divorce this man. Do not only remember these bad things...there have been good things as well. You two have beautiful kids together...please try and listen and share and just be strong. I do think that some people just cannot get over this. I may be one of them too...but I will do whatever it takes to keep my kids in a home where both parents are there. I will also pray that you find some comfort in MC today, and that your marriage heads back down the recovery trail. Did you ever think that maybe these feelings are coming from the fact that you were away from your H these past two weeks...and that they are more "trigger" type feelings instead of true ones?? I am about to be away from my H for the rest of the week....so I am preparing myself for those.

Anyway, I seem to be very long winded lately. Please forgive me:)

My thoughts are with you both today.

True <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I'm sorry DogMom is getting divorced. What happened that made her come to that conclusion?

I don't want a divorce. If I did, I wouldn't have stayed. But I will not sit back like last time and allow him to behave is disrespectful, inconsiderate behavior. Period! If that means having to leave him, then I will. I will not be a doormat for love again since I see where it got me.

I am fully prepared to stand my ground if that means saying goodbye. If he can't see the wrong in his ways and how disrespectful this was to me, and make the changes necessary to keep the family together, then I don't care to be with him and he obviously doesn't care about us. I took a back seat to his job for many years, during and before the A. Will NOT happen. He needs to know that. If your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off! If his job causes him to sin, to disrespect his wife, to engage in inappropriate behavior (he would NEVER go to a bar with ANYONE, but his work people), to have an A then quit! I will NOT ask him to. He has to get that on his own. I will not be the bad guy and responsible forever for him giving up the job of his dreams.

But like Holiday said, I will quietly divorce him since I have made my position clear. It won't come out of left field. He knows where I stand and I intend to stand by it.

So a few more hours to MC. I'll update you tomorrow as tonight will be busy when I return from MC.
2

OK, so we are back. I love my MC she is the best! Anyway, she had us focus on what had driven the feelings behind his behavior and my reaction. She wanted us to try and understand where the other was coming from. My H admitted to behaving "rebelliously" because he felt the parent child relationship when I pointed out that it wasn't appropriate to be in a bar at 1:30 in the morning. Our MC pointed out that he needs to 1) be aware of the rebellious feelings arrising and 2) understand that for some time, in order for me to feel "safe" the relationship may be parent child as we establish boundries and safe behaviors. He needs to recognize that and not react from a position of his childhood wound.

So we are supposed to talk more tonight, but I don't know if we'll have time because I've got somewhere to go. So that was the just.
2

My H just sprung on me that he read my post here till late last night. He has infiltrated my "safe" place to vent. I probably will sign off. I no longer have the freedom of expression as my post are being monitored.

Sorry! I'm very sad!
2

Why do you think him reading your posts is "monitoring" you?
He should know by now this is a place to vent.
What's up?
holiday

I guess he doesn't. He was offended by a lot of what he read here.
2

[color:"blue"] Hey 2,
As you know my H used to read here regularly...he doesn't so much anymore. I was like you; I said I should have a place to freely vent. There are some times that I just wish he would not read my feelings. What it comes down to though is, that if I place them down here, he can see what I am feeling, but not necessarily feel the anger. Ya know?

I do not think he should be offended. Your feelings are your feelings...and he should realize that you are allowed to have them. YOU ARE ALLOWED, 2! Do not let him tell you otherwise. Explain to him that you vent some of your frustrations here so that he does not get the brunt of it. You are recovering from a major trauma...he should know that you are going to feel hurt and angry and all that. I just cannot see what he would be offended by.

If he is offended by what we say...then I would have to say...oh well. We are all trying to support YOU and you alone. Maybe it will open his eyes. Or, like my H...just make him say..I am not going to read that stuff anymore...those people don't know me or my feelings:)

I am sorry in any case that he was dihonest about reading it. And, yes, he was. He told you the truth eventually, but went behind you in the first place to read what was going on. That is deceitful, and he should own up to it. There is a difference in finding out info and spying. Maybe I am wrong and his goal WAS to improve his talking(relationship) to you...in that case deceit is allowed...but not to throw your feelings back in your face...sorry. If you are not prepared for the raw emotion...don't read it.

Well, I hope you do not leave just yet...and 2's H..if you are reading this...GO AWAY! OR join in and share. My H chose to go away. Heck, write to HIM...he needs someone to share with(especially someone who likes the White Sox).

Take care

True <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> [/color]

In a nutshell, he felt the things I was saying here was "evidence" that I was not totally committed to the marriage. I need to decide if I'm going to stay once and for all. I told him, I'm not gonna stay with a guy who hangs out til 2am in bars! So I don't know what I'm gonna do. I have to figure out who this man is I find myself marriaged to. Then I'll decide. That is the best answer I can give him. I told him if he doesn't like it...sorry! Do what you gotta do.

Anyway, he won't post here. Not his style at ALL. He is probably reading, so I will "edit" my comments as not to offend him.

Anyway, I'm really sad and mad and feeling totally hopeless (yes honey, I am). I'm about to take a nap, do my prayer time and hope that prayers will lifts me out of this dreaded situation.

You know what is the saddest part? All I want is to be happy and I can't find it anymore. This took all my happiness away. Happiness never feels real anymore. Crying! Bye.
2

2,

I know everybody is telling you to decide whether you are going to stay...but you do not have to do that right now. Your H is being a jerk if he tells you otherwise. This is a major thing. You are TRYING. IT TAKES A LONG TIME, *AMNIT!!! You should NOT rush your recovery...your H needs to get that through his head. What he did was horrible...how can people expect their spouses to just get past it! AAAGGGGHHHH...that makes me so mad!!!

You have been doing sooo much better than you were when we first met. You have made TREMENDOUS progress. I am sooo sorry that your H can not see that.

I know what you mean about the happiness part. I feel the same way a lot of the time. I feel for you.

I will say prayers for you and your H! I am sooo sorry you are feeling sooo bad.

True

2, I say...if he wants to read all this, good for him, better for him if he starts to understand how greatly people here hurt, hopefully will make him see the big picture and it is BIG!
My H doesn't have any bad feelings about me writing here or not. I only brought him in the other day because I was telling him on how you were feeling with your H and I felt you were just about done with your marriage by some of your comments and I didn't want you to be.
I feel we can turn all this around, but our hurt needs an "attitude adjustment" every now and again.
2, if your H is looking for ammo here against you, he really won't find any. If he is looking here on trying to figure out what he can do to help you, tell him I welcome him.
holiday

I want you guys to know that I really love you with all my heart. During my nap time, I dreamt that we were all at some restuarant meeting each other for the first time with our spouses and the OW?! It was a dream. The point was we were all so happy and getting along. I felt true happiness...it felt like heaven.

I don't know what I'll do. I felt like he was looking for ammo to say "See! You aren't doing everything right either!" That is his biggest comeback to me is that in my anger (nevermind he created it!) that I act sinful or inappropriately. I know I do. But I'm not behaving in behavior that led to an A! BIG DIFFERENCE! He doesn't see it that way. A sin is a sin, wrong is wrong...you know.

We didn't get much time to talk last night. Resolving his behavior while he was away is what we focused on. Maybe when we get a chance to dicuss his negative feelings around this board, I'll let you know what I'm going to do.

Know I love ya!
2

2,

Just checkin in to see how you are doing?? I hope you and you H had a productive talk. I have been thinking about you all night and hoping that you and your H work things out.

Holiday, you never answered my question on how you got back the love from last time. I am curious. I want those loving feelings to come back so desperately. I know, I am not at the lowest point where there are no feeling left, but I just want the ones I have to grow, does that make sense???

I hope you both are doing well today. I have been away from H for 2 days. It is nice to see him miss me as much as he does, but also makes me sad that he did not think so highly of me back in November. I try not to focus on that past one, and stay in the nice feeling of him missing me:)

TTYL!!!

True

2, me too here...hope you don't leave us and you and you H are working this out.

Hmmm, True, my feelings back, well I don't think they really came back totally after the first A, I mean, I was more like "making myself" happy. You know, on the surface, but I thought that was going to be enough. I, like 2 and you wanted "the man I thought I married", I wanted it to be back the way I "thought" it was. It was almost dream like, and I guess my H felt it from my inside (does this make sense?).

We had moved here and I hated it, but tryed to keep my chin up. I was becoming somewhat depressed moving to a place too hot to go outside everyday like I was used to. Everything was happening at once, plus the affects of the A were still haunting me. Now I had a new house, new decor, new everything...but I wanted everything that used to have, I would have been happy with everything old again.

So after this last A and my hurt and anger somewhat subsided, I made the "choice" to put love in my heart. I thought, what will it hurt? the worse case senario had already been played...twice! I thought, just go for it and I try to live everyday with just that...my choice. My choice has made such a difference in my H. He can't wait to get home to me and now doesn't like to be away too long.

This is the "new marriage", the one better than what I used to have...see I don't think any of us realizes that it takes two to make a good marriage, meaning when we say "I thought we had a good marriage", well that was probably one sided without us knowing it or until a wake up call like all of this. We work on communication no matter how hard it is to get the words out and by arranging our words not as arrows but as embraces. (I hope this kind of makes sense.)

holiday

Just mad as hell. He doesn't understand at all. I really thought he did, but he doesn't. He had the nerve to tell me he thinks this website is a trigger for me! A trigger! Like he would know anything about that. Let's see today, shopping at Old Navy trigger, seeing someone who reselmed her trigger, dress shopping to attend a wedding trigger and the day is only half over! He can't seem to understand why I'm not over this and keeps looking for things that might be the cause instead of realizing HE IS THE CAUSE.

I don't know if he's reading...don't care. Probably isn't since he found no solid "evidence" that I was doing anything inappropriate. He so wanted to be able to say "Well I was in a bar til 2am, but you...you did X." He wasn't able to find that here, so he is probably done. Just a place to vent and he doesn't even want to allow me that. He is so clueless it makes me so mad.

We talked again last night and again resolved nothing!
2

Okay...after all this 2, do you think he's going to go to a bar in the near future until 2 am without you? Do you think he got that much yet?? Hopefully??

Holiday,

Thank you for the insight. I know how you feel about the move. I felt the same way when we moved to Utah. I was actually happy in NC when I got an awesome house, got to be a stay-at-home mom, nice things finally(since my teacher's income was no longer keeping us alive). The only problem with that is the my H was absolutely MISERABLE. He had no friends and his job made him feel worthless. I felt miserable in Utah, but I did have people to talk to and my job was a worthwhile one. Amazing how feeling down about yourself(plus his own curiousity) can lead to things you never thought yourself capable of, huh?

I will take your words to heart and make that choice like you said. I think you are right, that part of me is fearful of what can happen IF I choose to love him again. I am soo afraid of going through *ell again. But, if I left him, I would be taking that chance as well, wouldn't I? You are very wise. Thank you for sharing.

2,

I am sooo sorry you are hurting. He does sound clueless(but a lot of WS just don't understand...even my H(who I think does get it most of the time told me the other day that I should no longer think/talk about the OW...we did that for 6 mo. I should be done). I think the WS gets over the OP quite easily once they decide to work on the marriage...and they think since they no longer think of that person, we should be over it as well. That person is no longer a threat...a distant memory of a terible mistake, so we should view it as that as well. We should look at it as the mistake they think it is and not the fractured fairy tale that we look at it as. I hope in his reading...he has seen somewhat that you are not alone. We are all going through all of the same things! I don't know if he read more than your posts...maybe he should.


Take care. My thoughts/prayers are with you all!!

True <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

He read some of the other post, but felt that this is a poor sampling of everyone who has been through infidelity. An excuse to say, misery loves company and that is all this is. Plenty of people who aren't on this site, are doing fine!

You know I was watching Dr. Phil and it made me think of something. Let's say you go out drinking one night and make the HORRIBLE decision to drive home. One time thing. On the way home, you hit another car and seriously injury that person for life. Do you know what? The only thing you can do is say "I'm sorry." How shallow does that sound to someone in a wheelchair?

Well, that is what happened. Our WS decide not once, but daily for almost a year in my case, to drive drunk so to say. Now, my life is seriously injuried...I'm in a wheelchair and he is saying "I'm sorry, get over it." If they looked at what they did as making the STUPID decision to drive drunk and harm someone so deeply as what they did to us, then maybe they'd realize how pathetic sorry sounds. It just does.

Holiday, I agree with True that you gave some great insight. Like I explained to my H the other day, I get it in my head (like how he got it in his head that he shouldnt' screw his employees and cheat on his wife and kids) but don't feel it in my heart (guess he didn't either). I guess I'm not ready. I pray all the time that God will forgive me for my unforgiveness and restore my love for him. For awhile it was working, but talk about a buzz kill when he blantantly disregards my feelings and goes bar hoping til 2am.

Do I think he'll do it again? No! But did I think he'd have an affair? NO! So what good is thinking something?
2

2,

Good analogy with the drunken driver thing. I think that is right...except you need to add that it is someone you see everyday. I think this would be different for all of them if we had left. It is one thing to really be sorry(which I am sure all of our spouses are) but to have to look at the person you hurt everyday, and know that you caused that pain...that must be tough. In a way, our spouses did leave us in proverbial wheelchairs. We are injured for life...but look at some of the people who you hear about who take the accident that injured them and make their life sooo much better. I hope to do the same with mine.

I also pray daily that God will open my heart to forgiveness and love. In fact, every time I am feeling anger at my H...I say a prayer...so God hears from me quit a bit these days:)

Tonight I am dealing with the fact that my H has a life outside of mine. I know this is good, and I want that, since I think that is part of the environment that led to the affair, but it is still a little uneasy. I was having a rough day and I sorta needed to talk with my H. I guess I should have told him that, but I felt like he needs time to do things without me, and since I am hundreds of miles from him at the moment anyway, he should not have to stay home and be bored.

Anyway, have a good night. TTYL!!!!


True <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

edited to add: 2, if your H thinks this is a poor sampling...I would be happy to give him other websites to look at. He will see the same pattern no matter where he looks. Also, he should as your MC about it...I bet she would tell him that what you are feeling and how you are venting on this board, and maybe even to him, are perfectly normal. Maybe you should bring this up to your MC next time just to make sure that is good for you and to show him that it is/isn't. If she says it is good for you...tell him to back off. If she thinks it could be bad for you...then stop coming here and we will completely understand. Just my thoughts <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />