Hi all!

2, I hope you had fun yesterday. I LOVE amusement parks. The big rollercoasters are the best. My 9 year old is falling in love with them too! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I agree with Holiday. Your hubby did send a nice email. I think our counselor told us that my H should say that anytime he felt I was feeling bad about all of the affair issues. You could kindly say, It is not that I am having a bad day that I brought this up...just want to prepare for Friday. Sometimes, men(sorry, Rocked) just don't get that women like to prepare. I hope today goes well for you. My thoughts will be with you.

Holiday,

I have noticed that affairs happen a lot in the military in general. As for the Iraq thing...there is a lot of fallout from that all around...but I will not get into politics here <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

Rocked, you do sound a little off. I hope all is well.

As for me, I was having some minor issues yesterday. I am better now, and they really had to do more with self confidence, self image than the affair.

Anyway, TTYL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

True <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Really, I am fine. Thank you all for caring.

Sheikra at Busch Gardens is the bomb when it comes to roller-coaster vertical drops. Sissies need not stand in line!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

[color:"green"] Hey guys.....

I was listening to the local Christian radio station today and heard this reference...I had to come home and write it for you all. I can not state it as eloquently as they did, but it mirrors some of the things that I hold true

They said to look at a pearl and think of how it came to be. When a small grain of sand enters an oysters "mouth" it will begin to rub and irritate the soft inner body; the more the irritation, the more beautiful the pearl. God wants to make us into pearls. Whatever irritations there are in life rubbing us wrong, are there to make us even a more beautiful pearl in the end.

Now, I realize that affairs and the fallout from them are more than just irritations, but it still rings true...that all of this is making us stronger and more beautiful.

Like I said, I could not say it as nice as them...but I find it to be true. You all are more beautiful( and handsome) and soo much stronger for all of this.

Talk to you all later. And 2, lets us know how things went today.

True <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> [/color]

Uneventful. Apparently his staff went to lunch together and they were not back by the time I left. I wanted to meet his 2 new employees, but if it meant seeing her today, it was best that I didn't. It was still hard for me seeing people at his company who I'm sure know about the A. I still find it awkward, uncomfortable and humiliating.
2

True,
Great pearl illustration. You shared it most eloquently.

FYI...I found myself counseling someone recently who admitted to being in an affair with her boss at work. It was such a "God-thing" that I felt a great sense of compassion for her and her husband. My own personal feelings (of my wife's A) were tapped but they actually served to help me empathize with this woman's situation.

Ah-ha moment: God allows us to go through hardships so that we will be able to help others who go through the same stuff. It's not fun, and never seems fair. But it's one purpose in the grand sheme of things we can mine out of our difficult circumstances.

Rocked, I'm sure you know that is a bible verse...one I've turned to many time to comfort me during this time. Every time I would ask why this happened I'd refer back to it. Cor. I think. I can find it for you if you need me to because I have it written down, but not yet committed to memory.

I'm glad you were able to help. I find that counseling others (which I'm doing right now with a friend whose H is in an EA (at least) and refuses to end it) that it helps me to take the focus of me always feeling so bad. I realize that things could be worse and that I'm not the only person going through such hardship. Unfortunately, it hasn't given me any understanding into my H's poor behavior and decisions (or her H or anyones for that matter) and it hasn't made the pain go away.

I am not (and probably never will) find myself counseling someone of the opposite sex, so I may never get the insight you got. I hope you were able to help this couple and I'm glad that you got an opportunity to see the other side of the situation. I wish I could. Again, I understand the sex, the thrill. I struggle with the way he turned on me and "replaced" this OW with me so to say. I'd love to understand that. How one day we are praying for the life of our newborn son, sick in the hospital and 2 weeks later he is screwing someone else...and 2 months later, I've been a horrible wife for the whole marriage, and 5 months later he moves out. I still really don't get it.

Anyway, good hearing from you. I hope you'll get yourself back into some kind of MC yourself. I'm hope you could see the help you gave this couple. You guys need the same.

Just want the best for you. Love ya!
2

2,

Some of those questions may never be answered for us BS. I do have insight to my hubby's actions, and can sometimes even see where his head was at the time, which caused him to make such reckless choices, but that does not mean that I can comprehend that with my heart. I will never truly understand how he says that at the time, he loved me completely and thought what we had was so wonderful and special, and he could still do the one thing that he knew I would leave him over. PLUS, after the sex thing, he did the unthinkable and "fell in love" with the girl. Why he did not say, woooahhhh...I told True she could never fall for anyone else...that is unforgiveable...I need to stop...I will never know.

I think what I do now, or what I try to do, is look at him and say...do I feel like I am his one and only now? DO I feel like he loves me the way he should? Do I think he is capable of cheating on me in THIS VERY INSTANT??? No, I don't. We have both learned a lot through this. I will do my part to make sure he never does it again, and believe that he will do his. If I ever feel differently, the I will leave!

Rocked, thanks for the compliment on my writing:)


Holiday, how was your weekend?


Have a super day, all!

True <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Here's the verse II Cor. 3-4 "Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of compassion and the God of all comforts who comforts us in all our troubles, so that we can comfort those in any trouble with the comfort we ourselves have received from God."

Like I said, very important verse for me. However, it doesn't make me understand my H, his actions or any of this. It only makes me see how God uses everything for his glory.

True, I hear you about the whole "Am I his only one now" stuff, but that doesn't work for me. Really. I was his one and only on one day and the next day, I wasn't. I never thought he'd cheat on me in the first place, so asking if I think he would now, the answer is yes for me. I don't think my H is at all shocked at my pain, my reaction, my hurt. He knew what this was going to do to me when he was doing it. He didn't care then, and I have no guarentee that he won't care tomorrow.

Spent the week distant again. I find that it helps me cope. Times when I feel tears rising, I put on the shut off mode and it keeps me from being emotional. As I mentioned, it also keeps me from loving fully. He picked up on it again and asked me about it. The only answer I could give was that while preparing to see OW Friday (which didn't happen) I had to switch to shut off mode. It worked, but I realize seeing people at his job who I know know, doesn't make me feel good either. So to prevent a breakdown, I shut off for several days. I don't know what else to do. It seems to be either this, or crying spells again. I don't know what is worse.

Anyway, like I said, I don't get any of his actions except the lust part. But even that I struggle with because I know when I've dealt with that issue, I've taken it to the Lord til it goes away. He is able to do ALL things. I don't try to understand...really. But when Rocked mentioned it, it made me sad becaue I'm no better off today understanding why he did what he did, than I was on d-day.

Last night my mother got on me because I was insistant that my H change our son's diaper. I was tired and didn't want to and he leaves tomorrow for 3 days for work. That means I get 3 days on diaper duty. Plus, he has a year of making up to do. I spent a year changing diapers while he was partying with his mistress. Do I think he should have to do diaper duty when I don't want to? You bet! She told me I was wrong which also infuriates me sometimes the way she favors him, even after what he did to me. So, I'm looking forward to a day at home with the kids, but like I said before, I dont' find the joy in this much anymore either.

Anyway, hope you guys are good.
2

2,

I think you are wrong about one thing. Your H did not know what it would do to you...actually, he knew what it would do IF you found out...but I would bet that he thought you never would. He thought he could handle it all, and was so clever, that you would never be the wiser...so, in that sense, he did not do it with the knowledge of the hurt it would inflict. My H admits to this. He thought, True is silly for thinking sex should be among marriage only...it is just sex...what she doesn't know won't hurt her. He never wanted to hurt me...and he TRULY thought I would never find out about it. That does not make it any better, I know.

About the cheating again...well, if we get right down to it, I am like you....I think he did it once, he did not think of me then, what is the difference now? He will cheat again. That is why I only ask myself if I think he will cheat at that moment in time. His head is not in the same place as it was before( and I doubt your h's is either). If they were to just brush this under the rug, or not understand our pain, then I would not say anything...but it sounds like your H does know...and so does mine.

I would be ticked off at my mom too if she sided with my H on things like that. Why shouldn't the father of your baby change his diaper??? I mean regardless of whether he had an affair or not...you do it all day long...and your son is his baby too!


Nice story for all of you....We were at the store the other day and I was looking at the magaziines at the checkout. I think my H could see that look in my eyes that said, I wish that I was as beautiful as those women. I wish this, I wish that...I wasn't good enough to keep my man, etc.....those flash through my head now and again. Well, he leaned over and whispered in my ear...You are soo beautiful, and I love you soo much. I am the luckiest man on earth. I almost started crying. He finally gets it! I hope he never forgets.

Some days that works for me too, when my H tells me how beautiful I am. Most days it doesn't though.

Just talked to a friend from church who right after d-day was counseling me through this and a book that she had done with other women at our church who had been through affairs. They are getting divorced. He is at it again, even after a job change, MC and support groups of his own. She was the one who really advised me against making my H quit, because she did and it didn't help. She felt in some ways it hurt.

Anyway, that was a doozy! Some days (like today) I'm jealous of her and want to start over and fall in love again with someone else. I just don't love him the same and it sucks!
2

Hope you are all doing well. I need to take some time and read thoroughly through your posts. I only glanced at a few. Pulled a muscle in my back and heading to the chiro this afternoon, most uncomfortable (okay...so I'm gettin old <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />).

2, I need to say...please slow down on the past. When you use comments like your H has a year to make up, it makes me feel you are still punishing him. Start today and let all be in your past. From today on, make your marriage your new, better marriage. Who cares who changes who's diapers. Your Mom might have offered and let you both rest!



True, I think this says it all in a nutshell. In fact, I am waiting for a book to read about just that very thing.

I will write a bit more later when sitting isn't so ouchy.

Have a great day,
holiday

OK, so today going along with the policy of radical honesty, I told my H that I'm not happy and haven't been since d-day. We are almost 8 months out. We do weekly MC, we are involved in church. We longer discuss the A. We talk, spend time together and get along rather well...just like before his A. Yet, I'm not happy. Maybe that is how he felt before the A. So I decided, unlike he did, to tell him. But now what? He just passed the buck, saying he was doing the best job he could (like I was) and that he can't make me happy. So then I thought, what was the point of being radically honest? Especially since it was a HUGE love buster I'm sure.

Things are quiet now after the storm and I don't like the way it feels. Everything has returned to "normal" and normal is what got me here. I don't feel any sense of fulfillment or joy in anything I do...except work out and scrapbook. What am I to do?

I don't feel depressed. I suffered with that right after d-day. It isn't the same feeling, it is just a lingering sadness like I can't find happiness anymore. It's like if you were living a dream (which I felt I was most time) and then the dream is shattered by a crocked partner. You would be gun shy to pursue the dream again...and probably not at all with the same partner. So if you are locked into a contract (which I feel I am), then you might entertain the dream with the partner, but not want to do it again because 1) it didn't work the first time 2) your partner is crocked. That is where I am. And I don't know how to get out of it.

I did tell him today that I was unhappy (he just left for 3 days for work), but now what? I mean if he would have told me before the A that he was unhappy and I made some changes and they still weren't enough, so he went to counceling and it still wasn't enough, then what? He would have had his A anyway. Nothing is enough to make me happy now. I find comfort from my sadness through the Lord, but comfort...not happiness.

So now what? I feel like I'm spinning my wheels...doing what got me here in the first place. I hate it.
2

Well, 2,

I am having a sad day myself. I have been so good for so long, but today there is a deep sadness that I am also having a hard time getting out of.

I have just seen this downward spiral in you since right before the bar incident. I think that broke you. I do not think your husband knows how to heal you, but I think he has done a good job of healing himself, and cannot understand why you are not in that same great place he is now in. Plus, I do not think your MC is the best if all she does is agree with you and never shows you where he is coming from( I do not know if she does this, but it has sounded like this before...if she doesn't just ignore that comment), or if she does not help him see what he NEEDS to do to make you happy. That is WHY you are in counseling...she needs to step up to the plate and help you guys fall in love again...not just heal from this wound.

If you are truly this unhappy...then maybe you should consider a real separation from your H. Some BS cannot get passed this...in fact, many. I do not think you being unhappy all the time is good for you or your kids. If I was as sad as I am today( which puts me about where you are in most of your posts)everyday, then I would leave. I am like you and feel like I am sealed into a marriage contract, which is why I am choosing to love the man I have, and not expect any more. My kids deserve their parents together if they are happy and can provide a happy home...but, I remember some of the comments my kids made to me right after d-day and I will never forget how they sensed my sadness and anger even though I was trying to be strong. I will not do that to them for the rest of their time in our house.

2, I love ya...but enough wallowing...happiness is also a choice. We can choose to learn and grow and be happy...or we can choose to wallow, self-hate, harden our hearts, and be miserable bitter people.
Right now, I am one of those wallowers too, I know....so, ignore my advice if you wish.

Maya Angelou( I may have used this quote before) said...." I can be changed by what happens to me, but I refuse to be reduced by it." Do not let this event in your life reduce who you are...you are a beautiful, loving, happy, and caring woman!!!!


True <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

True, sorry you are having a bad day too. I'm off to MC shortly. She feels (and I agree) that you can't fall in love till you heal. When I had my knee surgery, they didn't have me walking again until I healed. We have done some "falling in love" stuff, but then there is usually a setback.

I have learned, I have grown tremendously in my faith and I choose to be happy when I spend time with my kids and one on one with my husband. But it is that...a choice. It doesn't come natural, it doesn't feel real and the happiness fades very quickly.

There is no self hate, I am not bitter or miserable...I'm unhappy. And there is a difference. I just don't know what to do anymore. If I thought seperation would make me happy, I'd do that. If I thought working again would make me happy, I'd do that. If I thought an A (like our idiot spouses) or re-marriage would make me happy, I'd do that. I don't know what would. That is what is so hard.

So I indulge in scrapbooking and working out as much as possible to escape. It the the activities I don't mind working hard at because I see the wonderful rewards! Doesn't happen that way in marriage.

2

2,

I must respectfully disagree with you and your counselor. I think you can fall in love before you heal completely...I am proof of that. I know you love her...but she has said many things that make me question her abilities as a counselor...and the fact that you are still in such turmoil this far out makes me question her counseling skills even more.

You say that you and your H hardly ever talk of the affair anymore...have you ever thought that might mean something?? My H and I still discuss the affair often, and I think that it does help. It does not mean that I am dwelling...it is just that we know that it is an important event in our life( I said important...not good), and if my mom or dad was murdered, or accidently killed, or one of our kids died that way...do you think I would just say...oh, I am going to stop talking about that b/c it is unpleasant? No...talking about it HELPS THE HEALING!!! There was a study, the couples that discussed it the most, healed the best. Think about it.


True <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />


P.S. I did not mean that you had self-hate( that was more for me at the moment)...but I do feel like you are miserable..and you have shown a lot of bitterness as well...we all have, haven't we???

OOOOPPPPSSSSS......................


Holiday, I meant to also say that I hope you are feeling better. Those back injuries can be killers...I know, trust me:)

True

Went to MC and I love her. She makes me feel so normal. I was so down, and she just reminded me that I'm going through the grieving process (textbook case she said) and I'm doing fine. She reminded me that I went through denial, anger/rage and now in sadness/depression. She told me to just go through the motions, even if I don't want to and one day I'll find myself out of it. She said, people who don't go through the process and heal too quickly always end up in some marital crisis again. I think that happened with my parents. Holiday, did that happen with you the first time?

So it sucks! I hate feeling down. But at least I feel normal about it. At least I know I'm not the only person still grieving the loss of her marriage 8 months later. She told me of course my H was going to get over the grief faster than I was, but if it takes me 10 years to grieve the loss, it takes me 10 years. You can't speed up the process...everyone is different.

So that is where I am right now. Saw War of the Worlds with my mom tonight. Liked it, but very intense!

Chat later!
2

2,

I am glad you had a good counseling session. She actually said something that I agree with. We all heal at our own pace, we all have to go through the grieving process, AND if we try and heal too quickly, it will lead to disaster. However, you should also know that although you may be going through the "textbook" case...some people never reach that acceptance stage. AND it is perfectly normal to go back to one of those earlier stages too. I have read extensively on the subject.

And although I am going to drop my comments about your counselor(b/c it is obvious that she does for you what you need her to), I wonder if your Hubby likes her as much as you. She seems to favor you, from your posts. I do not think that is good either. He might be like my h, and think he deserves any negative thing he gets...but it is not healthy. I think that is why sometimes I leave our MC sessions sorta raw, b/c our counselor forces me to see my husband's side of things, and let me know that although I am a wonderful person...not all of my actions are perfect and helpful...normal, maybe, but not helpful. But, like I said, that is the last thing I will say about it.

I hope you do not think that when I was talking to you, I was saying that you should be done with your grieving. I know that I am NO where NEAR healed. I grieve my loss everyday. If I was grieving for 10 years, I would hope that I had left my husband though...that would make for a miserable life for him and me. I think some people do not get to that acceptance phase until they are away from the sitch. That would probably be me, if I was not so willing to work through this. That is me though...and like you said, we are all different in our healing.

Glad you got to go out with your mom. Sounds fun.

Hope your day is a good one.


True

My H sees her weekly by himself. He seems to love her as much as I do. She has helped him to discover what would cause him to do something so wreakless.

I think my MC does favor my side. Let's face it, I did nothing wrong and my H ruined our marriage. She points out things that I do that are not helpful too, but again, it is normal and it is the result of my h murdering our marriage. She always has us compare this to a death, because in so many ways it is. And she says, things like (H if she was angry that her child was murdered, would you think she was wrong? or if I still grieved 8 months later? or if I had good days and bad days? or EVERYTHING seemed to remind me of my loss? or I was jealous of people who still had their kid?)

Unfortunately, I have never done well with death. My H knows this as he has seen my cry over loved ones who have been dead for years. Something will remind me of them and in some cases (like my favorite uncle) I cried for 3 + years after he died. His death (like that of my marriage) was tragic and sad. When my grandpa died who I loved, not the same reaction. He had a good long life.

Anyway, busy day, so this will be all you hear from me for awhile. I'm sure you're happy about that! I can stop monopologizing the room!
2

Hi all,
Typing from a most uncomfortable position, but I had read through the posts yesterday and this am and need to post.



Back to this post from True. I too 2, think your counselor needs to up the pace. She might like your $$, so she's "tickling" your ears with her sessions.

I too feel you can fall in love during the healing process. True is giving you some valid points.

2, you asked if this is what happened the first time with my H's A. No, it didn't. What happened in MC was that she (the counselor) gave us the skills to move forward, but we stopped talking about the A immediately once it was exposed and detailed. I felt I really didn't have the energy nor the right to keep bringing it up. WRONG MEDICINE!!!

This time on our own, we talked out the details, the emotional states we were both in and we still do. Perhaps not as intensely as months ago, but we still and I still can ask anything I wish about it. I like True feel, if you don't keep it's memory it will come back to haunt you.

2, do you think you were "in love" prior to your H's A? Maybe you can really re evaluate your feelings back then. Do you think you might have been in depression back then too? You became a Mom instead of a career woman you were hoping to be. Don't get me wrong and don't think I don't think being a Mom is not the greatest thing this world has to offer, but women of the 90's and the 00's are really tuned into the "Super Mom/Career Woman" sydrome. We want it all!

2, I really, really, really (with an extremely open mind, for me) suggest you pick up that book on the Monogamy Myth and her later book Beyond Affairs. It's not a book on dismissing A's, only to help understand them. The book Beyond Affairs is very interesting on how her H's affairs were not about "her" and that he thought that what she didn't know wouldn't hurt her (but it did) and that he loved his wife immensely throughout everything.

I'm on some heavy Motrin right now and getting tired. I went to the Chriro and she thinks it's internal. So now I have an appt with my GYN (again, after only 30 days with a clean bill of health)...woohoo (sorry Rocked for TMI). Getting up in the 40's is tough.
I will check on you as soon as I can,
holiday