I just meant that she was always after him and getting inbetween him and me. She weeded her way into our life, and even gave the kids things...like a virus. AND, August was the month that it all began. I have no doubt that she was after him from the very beginning. Now, I can no longer say that she was not in the picture a year ago...does that make more sense?


Thanks for the prayers!

True

Yes it does. I wonder sometimes too if the OW had her eye on my H from the moment he hired her...three years back!

Aug. 14th last year, we left on a FABULOUS family vacation to the Carribean. I remember getting a sitter for one night and we walked on the beach hand in hand after a lovely dinner. We stopped to sit in the sand and talk. It was so romantic and yet, nothing happened...not even a kiss. He told me about a month later when he moved out that on that night he realized he didn't love me anymore. We were in the most romantic place in the world and he felt nothing for me but "friends". I reminded him several weeks later after the A was revealed that on that same night, as we got up to leave from that spot on the beach, I stopped him, looked him dead in the eye and said "I can't shake this feeling that you are cheating on me with OW." I knew then, called her by name and still believed him when he said to me "We are just friends. But I can only imagine how awful you feel if you really believe that." That is a QUOTE!

So I look back to a year ago and I say to myself "You knew! Why did you ignore it?" I can't answer that. I just don't know.

2

Isn't it amazing! I knew before it ever really began, and just ignored it...in fact told him to not talk to me about her...I look back and ask myself the same question. I think I am a pretty smart woman, so I can not see why I ignored the obvious. I was like you and even said to him that if I didn't trust him, I would think he was cheating on me...he showed all the signs, and I knew who he would be cheating with( heck, she had sent things home for the kids a couple of times by then). I just don't know either. I guess, when it comes down to it, we will never know the why's of some of their actions and the why's of some of our own actions.

Holiday...thoughts and prayers are with you as you go to the doctor.

TTYL!!

True

Hey Girls,
Thank you.
My appts at 11:15 PST. So I'm getting a bit of work done before I go.

Okay...here's a thought for you to help me with, since just reading both your last posts about OW in the workplace.

Do you both remember me telling you about my H's station having a female? She bid into an all male specialty station (they do more high tech rescue and are paid more to be specialists) about 4 months ago.

Anyway, my H had been semi friends with her throughout the years because they had worked together at different stations working overtime days etc. He even met her and her H to help teach them racquetball a few years back.

Well, a few of the guys at the station were "anti" girl and my H and another FF decided to kind of take her in and be the ones to help her adjust (a couple of the guys were extremely bitter towards her).

Since talking with you two, I am sometimes uneasy about her. I have been to the station when she working and I do sense a feeling I make her act different (girl thing...do you know what I mean?).

I told my H the other day that I was concerned about her. He told me that I need not worry. I do worry and I don't worry as my H's issues are more with PA's or ONS's and not EA's...but ya never know.

Any advise on how to handle myself or this sitch?

I will let you know any results at the doc's too later.

Have a good day,

holiday

My only advice is NOT to trust your H. I know that sounds awful, but since we are doing reflecting, long before the A began, I had a feeling that OW was quite fond of my H. I think that is one of the reason I tried to stay "close" and friendly with her. Believing if she knew and liked me, she'd back off my H.

Despite sensing that, I always trusted my H and never thought he'd cheat on me. I didn't think it would matter if Janet Jackson hit on him, I trusted him. And since OW was far from Janet Jackson, I thought I had nothing to worry about.

But, looking back on it, even before the A (they worked together 2 years prior to the A), I felt uneasy about some things that were happening. It bothered me that she ONLY dated black guys and he was often trying to hook her up with his friends. He always seemed overly concerned about who she was dating (I took it as a big brother role) saying "this guys a loser and bad for her." I used to think "Who cares?! She's only your employee."

So my point is, if you feel uneasy about something it is probably for a reason. I remember reading the signs of how to know your spouse is having an A and the first rule is "gut feeling". It was there for me for awhile, but I ignored it.

I don't think your H is cheating, but if you have an uneasy feeling, it IS for a reason. Pay attention to it and act on it. I actually remember after attending a wedding that she was at, telling my H, "she has a crush on you...I can tell." And yet, I did NOTHING. I allowed them to continue on with happy hours, office trips and lunch. I should have said "She has a crush and you and you need to stay away and keep things cool." But I didn't.

You have every right (especially in light of his previous A) to ask him and expect him to keep his distance from this lady. Just tell him the truth, you have a bad feeling and you would appreciate it if he would respect that.

That is my advice.

Good luck and keep us posted.
2

Hey Guys,

I want your thoughts. I was chatting with a friend of mine this morning whose H left her for the OW a year and a half ago. I got to know L, through a mutal friend K who knew both our situations. So I met L a year after her H left her. Unfortunately, she is having a VERY difficult time dealing with the end of her marriage, and I being able to relate to her hurt, anger and sadness have been speaking with her often to try to help her through this.

A couple of days ago our mutal friend K was over to visit. We started talking about A's and she asked me why I thought my H stayed and L's husband didn't? She (K) kept wanting to attribute it to my H's walk, believing that he was a "better" Christian than L's H. I disagreed with her.

Talking with L this morning really had me thinking "Why did my H stay and her's leave her?" They have 2 kids, been married about the same number of years, both Christians and according to L were very happily married. She said he started dating his OW (also someone from work...he's a firefighter too Holiday) in Dec. They celebrated a romantic Valentine's day together and he left her in early March. She was dumbfounded...poor thing still is. I asked my H that awhile back, and he said, L's H left too early...before he got a chance to be with the OW long enough to realize her flaws.

I don't know. Is it just the grace of God? I think sometimes it is because L's H picked a "better" OW. My H picked a basket case (did I tell you guys he told me the other day that she is grossly skinny and said she must be bulimic again. I said 'She's bulimic too?! My gosh what redeeming quality did you see in her again?") I certainly don't think it is because I'm a better wife than L or my H is a "better" man than her H. Is it just the grace of God? What do you guys think?

True, why did we make it and DogMom didn't? I'm not asking for details, but why didn't they survive this and we here did? I guess I want to know in case it will help someone else.

Anyway, just the thought for the day. What is your take?
2

First, Holiday,

I would say to your H that this woman makes you feel uncomfortable, and that he should distance himself from her. He should not divulge any personal info about himself and his life with you. Put up a wall around his relationship with you, and do not allow her to chip away at it. And I do not mean that she would do this on purpose, like my OW..but, I just mean, my hubby felt a true friendship with the woman before anything ever happened. It progressed very slowly until she kissed him...then everything he tried to do to protect himself no longer mattered to him. Nice, huh? I think you should definitely share this with your hubby( and look it that Not Just Friends book to help you). Why risk a friendship with another woman when he knows he has fallen in the past? In my opinion, cheaters should stay as far away from the opposite sex as possible. Recovering alcoholics stay as far away from liquor as possible...so should recovering cheaters...the opposite sex is their liquor. Does that make sense?

Now 2, I think DogMom didn't make it b/c her relationship was in trouble before anything ever happened. Then, after it happened, and remember her hubby had basically EA's, that progressed to kissing...twice. He did not really see her pain, and from her viewpoint did not do anything to correct it. I have chatted with him, and of course he claims that he did do a lot of things..but from things she told me, I wanted to go kick his *ss sometimes too.

Plus, after she decided to get divorced, she found a new man, and I think that has helped her move on faster than she might normally. The guys she is dating had a wife who cheated on him too. So, they are very good for each other in that way. He is a very good Christian...a pastor...and he really seems to care about her.

As for my H, I have no doubt in my mind that if the OW had not ended it, my H would have gotten more and more involved, and would have left me in the end. Of course, we were different in the fact that he knew that he would be moving away in two months when he started the PA part of the A, so I suppose he just figured that would end it...but he already had started feeling out of love with me, and he had only been involved a month really(well, PA) so after two months I am sure that I would have become some horrible *itch(especially since he heard her refer to me as that every time he mentioned me) and he already looked at the OW as being someone so special( although she sounds a lot like your OW) and someone who had a lot in common with him...and I don't. Some parts of me think he would be happier if he was with her today.

I think we have made it this far b/c my H has done his best to show me that he was a fool and that he does love me. He has taken responsibilty for everything, and has changed in many ways. Plus, I think we have all made it where others have failed, b/c WE wanted it to, and in the end, so did our H's. It takes to to make it this far.

TTYL!

True <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

True, why do you think your husband would have left you? My H went all the way. He was involved for almost a year, moved out for a few weeks, said he didn't love me anymore, blamed me for everything wrong in life, the whole bit. He didn't end up leaving me. That is my point. Why? Why did L's husband leave and mine didn't? I don't think if your H would have become more and more involved that he would have left necessarily. That doesn't seem to be the criteria for why some leave. I guess it is just the grace of God (or as I said earlier, my H picked another woman who was such an ENORMOUS loser, he knew in the end he didn't want to be with her.)

I'm glad DogMom is happy, but sad her marriage didn't work. I have a friend from church whose marriage is ending. They have been married 8 years and like Dog, have no children. But it is so sad. She filed for his infidelity, she's dating again too, but she is sad. Send Dog our best.

Yes, I think we made it because we both wanted it too, but why? Poor L wants it worse than most. After a year and a half, she'd take him back in a N.Y. minute. I'd be dating again! Why didn't he want it? OW better? I don't understand.

Why would you say something so ridiculous as sometimes you think your H would be happier with OW? I know without a shadow of a doubt that if my H would have left me for OW, it would have never worked and he'd be totally miserable. As a matter of fact he'd be miserable with ANYONE other than me. OW was just so OBVIOUSLY a poor choice, but even a "better" OW couldn't make him as happy as me. And ultimately with all that has happened, I feel the same way which is why I stayed even after all this.

Anyway, thanks for your insight. Holiday? Thoughts?
2

Hi,

No news on my ultrasound. Doc appt had to be moved to Mon...she's an OB too and had unexpected deliveries on Fri...thank goodness I wasn't dying!

As far as a WS staying or leaving, I think it depends on why they think they needed the A in the first place.

I think, if the WS thinks things are so bad at home, usually the A starts as a friendship. Someone to "tell" their life story to. Someone to "comfort" them (sorry these sentences make me want to throw up, but all the same some reasons I have heard).

In L's case, she'd really have to evaluate what she saw in this person from the begining, prior to marrying him. He had signs of problems probably early on and she wasn't tuned in or he didn't let her tune in. We can't change someone else without changing ourselves first. If the WS has really low self esteem, instead of correcting their issues with the present relationship, they instead create a new one to escape. All the time thinking that it's the "other person's" fault for all "their" unhappiness. A few of them "wake up" once they really see the OP for who they are, a temporary painkiller.

I talked to my H yesterday about my feelings about his female co worker. He understood of course where I was coming from. He tried hard to reassure me that I don't need to worry. That since his last indiscretion he was "committed" to working on us and only having eyes for me. He was very sincere, but I told him my radar is on, so continue to prove me wrong.

I saw this great T shirt at the gym the other day and I told my H what it said:

"COMMITMENTS ARE FOR WINNERS"
"PROMISES ARE FOR LOSERS"

My H took this in big time when I told him about it. It's the truth.

I'm still uncomfortable, but working through this aghh, backache.


Hope you both have a great day,

holiday

Hi all!

2,
I was thinking more about your previous question about why some spouses leave and others don't...then I looked at my H and his OW. He stayed with his family and she left her fiance, so I thought why was he comitted to the family and she just left her man(probably making him think it was his fault). I came to realize that she ended up leaving b/c she liked the "in-love" feeling. She craved it. Heck, after she got "caught" talking to a different man, she ended it with my H out of guilt supposeably, but to be honest, she had already started talking to this other guy...so she was in two affairs. She craved the feelings it gave her. I wonder if that is why the H of your friend left. He needed that feeling.

Also, for me, if I had been my H and found myself "in love" with someone else, and feeling out of love with him...I would have said, well, I must not really love him, b/c you can only be in love with one person at a time. That fairy tale of someone loving the other person exclusively until death, is no longer in my head...but it would have guided my feelings before. I still do not think I would have left, though, b/c I am an extremely loyal person. I made a committment, and I will stand by it. However, I always thought my H was extremely loyal, and now I know that he is not. So, maybe it comes down to if the person is a loyal person...someone who will choose others needs over their own in the end. They may be having an affair, which is selfish, but to take care of those that are their family is more important in the long run. One reason I stayed. My kids were more important than my own feelings.

Anyway, Holiday, I love that shirt...I think we should all get one made! We can wear it to the Old Newbie's party:) I hope your appointment goes well today. And, I hope your hubby really got a sense of your feelings about this OW. Like 2 said, trust your gut more than your H. It sounds bad...but which one has been proven to be more trustworthy??

Have a super day!

True

Hey Guys,

Thought about all of us yesterday in church services. The pastor did a sermon on "love" and went on to talk about how important it is. He gave several verses that talk about the importance God places on loving one another and reconciling with each other. He openly commended those of us who had "reason" to leave our marriages, but stayed. It made me feel good (instead of the fool I often feel) that I'm doing something that pleases the Lord. You guys should feel good too!

He did go on to say that reconcilation is important, but not always possible (like me and OW) but we need to love and pray for our enemies. I hope you guys are praying for the OW! I do all the time and I pray she will never destroy another marriage.

Anyway, I just wanted to say "good job!" to you guys for sticking it out and not taking the easy way out. I look at DogMom and think "I'd like to be "in love" again with some great guy like she is", but then I realize how much easier that would be. I'm believing God sees our hard work and smiles at us from above.

True, your thoughts could be right. Sometimes I think it is simply pride. For our spouses to have to admit (and publicly in my case) that they made a HUGE mistake and have to work THIS hard to rebuild, is huge! They've had to go to counseling, watch us grieve, endure our rage...not easy. It would be sooooo much easier and less humilating to say "I did the RIGHT thing! I fell for OW, because my wife sucks!" and leave.

Anyway, you guys have a great day!
2

So last night my H comes home from work and ask to speak with me upstairs (my dad was there). So I stop cooking dinner to go up with him. I knew he met with his boss's boss yesterday (the BIG DOG who hired him and is really responsible for promoting him over the 9 years he's been there) and I knew he'd have some stuff to tell me.

We had talked about him letting the Big Dog know that ideally, he'd like the OW not to work for him anymore. After d-day the big Dog (who has had his own fair share of extra-marital scandals) called my H to let him know the company was there for him and offered him as much time as he needed to "work on his family". So I'm waiting and waiting for him to tell me about that and my H is going on and on about what the big dog told him as far as opportunities for him in the near future etc. So the big dog says let me know what of these options you might like to do and my H tells him "wherever you think I'm best suited" and that was IT! So I said "did you tell him that ideally you'd like it if OW doesn't report to you anymore?" and he said "no, it didn't come up". So I got up and walked out of the room and went back to making dinner.

We didn't talk about it anymore the whole night. But honestly, how I feel today is like "You called me upstairs and made me stop dinner. That got my hopes all up knowing you'd met with the Big Dog that something was finally going to happen with OW and NOTHING! Just some thoughts about what MIGHT be ahead for him? I really thought it was kind of insensitive. As far as I was concerned, it wasn't really any earth shattering news that HAD to be discussed the second he walked in the door!

I felt bad later realizing that he was excited about the potential opportunities for his career and that what I did was probably a LB. But I didn't want him to see my terrible disappointment that he didn't mention it to Big Dog, so I just walked out without a word or a look.

Today is MC and I guess I will discuss that I realize I was probably a buzz killer and love buster to him last night, but I hope he sees how disappointing that was to me. I feel like he blew an opportunity that doesn't come around much. They meet just the 2 of them about twice a year! The big dog knows all about it and can probably relate having been there himself. Why won't my H discuss it and try harder to do something about getting rid of her? I'm really annoyed!

2

Yep, that was it. Remember, he will always be a "man" first with you. Not like that's a bad thing, just they don't always think like we do. He was probably just happy to share his meeting with the BD to let you know that he's still very important to his company, despite all the past goings on.

We'll just keep praying that the OW will eventually move away, okay?

Well, the ultra sound found nothing. I am in perfect health by the tests other than old age syndrome, ha. The doctor gave me one option (due to the chronic pain) and I don't think it's what I need, but I will research it. Have either of you heard of NOVASURE? Without being too graphic it's basically like a hysterectomy with out removing organs. I don't think that's my problem. I will see how long I can go before I need to seek another type of doctor.

Not much here this week. We are heading to Escondido this weekend for a wedding. Should be fun.

Hope you both are well,

holiday

Holiday, I'm glad nothings wrong. Haven't heard of Novasure. Do your research.
2

Hi!

First, Holiday...glad things are ok. I have never heard of Novasure either, sorry.

2,

I agree with you that you probably created a love buster, BUT you should come before your H's career everytime...even my H said that your H messed up big time. He said that your H knew that he needed to bring that up the whole time they were talking but did not do it b/c he is a conflict avoider...and he should know since he is one as well:) Your hubby had one job to do when he went into that meeting and he dropped the ball. Come on he is a pretty important guy in business, and the one thing he was supposed to talk about just didn't come up??? I don't buy it. My hubby was annoyed at him for you, too!

Did you end up talking about it in MC?


As for me, I have been having a lot of bad dreams lately...will these ever go away? I think they are worse now, b/c before if I ever dreamed things about my H, I knew they were not real, and believe that he really loved me too much to do anything like that...now I know different, and now when I have these dreams, I get so heartbroken that he did it again. I actually woke up sobbing this morning with that ache in my heart and emptiness in my stomach, just like on d-day. I hate those dreams.

Anyway, hope you are all having a good day.

TTYL!

True

Hi,

2...was this meeting with BD suppose to be about the OW? I thought the meeting was out of the blue (did I miss a post?).

I really don't think BD needs to hear anymore about 2's H's past issues. Legally, they can't move her anywhere for awhile, so I am confused as why they should be talking about it anyway.

Yes, would have been great if two masterminds could come up with a quick solution, but I think it could or would create more problems for 2's H later on, like discrimination.

Worse case senario would be that both should be moved out of the company, not just one, as punishment if it need be.

Sorry True that you are having bad dreams. What are you eating before bed? Chocolate? ice cream? These two items can cause some dozzie dreams. I've been having tons of dreams myself, not bad, just alot lately. Okay, I've had a scoop of vanilla ice cream with a few chocolate chips...could be the problem <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.

Hope you both have a great day,

holiday

I wish I had found this site the devastating day I found out about my husband's affair. That was over 6 years ago and my husband became a model husband afterward. I thought everything would be alright, but the hurt inside me is so deep that nothing he has done can make up for it. We have been through 4 years of counseling to no avail. I still feel the need to vent my feelings, but have no safe place to do it. When I tell him that I am having a hurting day, because something has triggered the memory, he is impatient with me and says that I am "pounding" him. He becomes angry and abusive. He wants to forget this ever happened, but I cannot. I wish that I had divorced him had I known that I would not be able to get over this. Hopefully some one here has some ideas. Please help if you can.

Hi Everyone!

H left for work til Sat. Sometimes these are the best times for me. I get a break!

Yes we discussed the situation about my H meeting with BD. It did NOT get resolved because we didn't have time to finish the points we both wanted to make. To clarify, the meeting was set up by my H to discuss his future growth opportunities with the company AKA find a different position to get away from OW. I told my H I wish he'd be honest with the BD when asked why he wanted to leave his current post. My H NEVER agreed to do that, but agreed only to look at other opportunities and that is what the meeting was about.

NOW, I don't understand why my H is sooooooo afraid to merely bring up the point. I didn't want him to ask anything, demand anything, only honestly say when asked (which he was) that the REAL reason he wants out of his current post is because working with OW continues to be awkward and uncomfortable. With BD having his own scandals, I know he'd understand and I feel be sympathatic to my H situation (he remains married too after numerous A with company people which seemed to stop about 3 years ago). I thought with BD knowing my H's REAL issue, he'd keep it in mind in terms of trying to help change things.

My H feels like holiday stated...bringing it up will only make things worse. I screamed in MC yesterday "If they didn't fire you for F-ing your employee, they aren't going to fire you or think worse of you because you tell them you don't want her in your department ANYMORE!" I think it is an excuse (like True stated) to be a conflict avoider. The BD knows what happened and would probably respect my H desire to be away from his former mistress. I understand fully that BD may not have been able to do anything, but I don't think it would have hurt anything (and only helped) for him to know that SHE is an issue for him. I again yelled "BD should know, everyone should know AND especially SHE should know that you don't want her working for you and yet, NOBODY knows...not even her!" That was the end of MC. Our MC begged us to let it go for the night (since my H left this morning) and try to focus on other things. She promised we'd revisit the subject next Tues. We did. As I mentioned he's gone til Sat. so that helps!

Now Merri. Welcome! As you may tell we are a group of 3 now, formerly 5 that have been talking since Dec. last year. This site has truly been a HUGE sounding board and place to vent for me.

Your story scares me as it is my fear. I am so afraid that 10 years later I will continue to look at my H with disgust and wonder why I stayed. He too has been the perfect H, but I always thought he was before. I was NEVER unhappy being married to him...now I am.

I have no advice for you. How could I? You are 6 years out and I'm less than a year! I have not yet healed and therefore do not think that I can offer any advice to you.

I would like to know more about your story. How long was his A? Who with? I think some of the 'factors' may contribute to how soon we get over this. As you may know from my story, my H was involved with one of his employees for almost a year. I knew her and they continue to work together. Holiday's H had 2 A, but they were brief and not emotional. True's H had 1 A with a co-worker that was brief, but like my H's was pretty involved. Rocked wife was involved for 3 years with another man. So we have varied backgrounds and how we each handle this has depended some on the situation and ALOT on our personalities. Plus our religious beliefs.

All I can say is I hope you hang in there. After all these years, it would be such a shame to let something from 6 years ago cause the end of your marriage. Feel free to vent as much as you need to. We are here often!
2

2,

I am sorry that you did not get the issue resolved, but am happy that you let it go before he left. That must have been tough( well, it would have been for me).

Holiday,

I read on another post that you will be leaving for the weekend...have fun! I have a wedding to go to in mid-Sept. and I am not looking forward to the triggers involved...how do you do it??? I have made alternate plans for the day of the rehersal(my H is in the wedding). Our hotel is very nice, so if the wedding gets to be too much, I can always relax there. Heck, it is so nice, maybe even if I am not bothered hubby and I will "relax" there...hee hee!

Merri6,

Yes, welcome. I am sorry that you find yourself here. This thread is down to three, but there are sooo many people here on the site that can help. 2 gave you all of our basic stories...and we welcome you to join in our little thread as much as you need.

I, too, am a little scared by your story, as 2 and I are usually pretty similar in our feelings. I wonder if 6 years down the road if I will be in your position as well. Please feel free to vent to us, and although we are all still new to this...we will offer you advice and friendship, and maybe even hope.

Tell us your story.

Have a good night all!

True

Sorry 2, now I understand why you feel upset and hurt by your H's "non actions" in the meeting.
However, talking from a man's point of view...Mr BD might have a different take on the "OW" thing, like everyone should "get over it", yadayada, not understanding how, "you" the wife feels as he has been the WS in his past. I wouldn't put trust in his judgement and perhaps your H feels the same way...only a thought.

Merri, so sorry to see you here, but this is the bestest place to come to. We are all glad to help if we can.

I'm the oldest (not always the wisest, unless Rocked is trying to gain points with me, ha!...sure do miss him), but through my experiences with my H's A's and as I have told 2 and True, I made a choice.

True, that is still how I do it. I love the man and I know he loves me. He has done stupid things and has shown regret and hopefully his committment to our marriage is sincere. I love being with him because he is my best friend even though he has hurt me deeply. All I can do is open my heart again, or dry up and die inside and I won't have that.

Merri, I would think after 6 years and you still feel this way, I too as a FWS would be a bit upset. Angry and "abusive" I would not stand for. That is scarey. My H tells me it's not what I say, but how I say it...the delivery. Men and women speak and hear things so differently. We both work on that fact with our communication.

And yes, Merri let us know what's going on...some history.

I will check on you all Monday,

holiday