I picked truetoself, b/c I feel like I need to be that. The one person that I truly believed would never hurt me had just done the unthinkable. See( I think I have probably told you all of this...so forgive me if I repeat myself)...my H is the first person who made me feel worthwhile...my parents loved me and were very supportive, but I always felt like they had to be. I have always had a low self-esteem, and being a freckleface overweight person in the school I went to was a sure sign of a big loser. I actually had people call me horrible names. I definitely was not one of those popular kids. Then my H came into the picture. He was so handsome, and so kind and wonderful...and he just seemed real. I had never had anybody that great like me...now, yes, I was only 17...but I fell for him hard. All these years he has written me and told me some of the most amazing things about the way he feels about me. I have read some of the older letters where he truly told me how he felt, and am just brought to tears by the feelings he carried for me. I have read the letter he wrote to me 2 Octobers ago...and can FEEL the love pouring out. I think that is why I never worried about an A...even after he started talking about swinging. I knew that even though he viewed sex as just sex...he loved me so completely that he would always be faithful to me and respect my views on what sex meant. I honestly do not know what happened to make him not love me like that...I guess I never will. That is the thing that makes me the saddest. I do not miss the man that my H became during the A, but I do miss the man that fell in love with me and loved me so much. I miss the man that made me feel like I was finally worth something. My H is a wonderful husband, someone who does love me, and who is showing me everyday how lucky he feels to still be married to me, and he is still my best friend in the whole world...but I will never get the man back that I innocently believed was different than other men and made me feel the way he did. I will always have a part in me that knows that all those things I believed about myself must have been true...b/c even my H couldn't continue loving me like he once did. I became replacable...something he always said I never could be.

So, truetoself comes from the fact that I realized that I could no longer count on anyone to be true to me but myself. I could only trust me to do what was right and to do the things that I valued. As much as I sometimes wish that I could have complete control over every sitch...I can't. I will remain to true to me, and b/c of who I am and things that I believe, I will also remain true to those I hold closest to my heart.

Long answer for such a short question...sorry.

True <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I chose RockedNFla b/c HandsomeTenderWhiteManWhoseWifeUnzippedForAnotherDude" was already taken. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

See I've learned so much about you from your answers. True, I appreciate you pouring out your heart. I had issues of being accepted for who I was...but I never really had low self esteem. I was popular and cute (well I thought so anyway obviously) but I was always an individual who didn't always do what everyone else did. Sometime I bucked the system on purpose...just to see who would support me and still be around for me. That is where my H comes into play. I felt very accepted by him...even my little quirks. I too never thought he'd stop loving me...but you know that he did...for almost a year.

Unlike you True, with low self esteem, I can't believe he'd cheat on me because I am such an awesome person! I really mean that. I look in the mirror and aside from wishing I was about 20lbs thinner, I like me! I know I am a good person, I know I am a kind person, I know am fun and witty and cute. So my esteem has suffered now in wondering if I'm not really all these things that I believed about myself...not the other way around. Interesting isn't it?

Rocked, I learned that you are always funny <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Later guys!
2

Good morning all. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

2,
I guess I cannot honestly say that I have ALWAYS had low self-esteem, b/c I have always been outspoken and speak up for the things I believe in. I think before I moved to the suburbs of Chicago when I was barely a teen, I was pretty confident. The town I grew up in, however, did not foster good self-esteem for those of us who were new to the area, and did not fit the "mold". I was from a very urban area, and used to seeing things a little differently than the people I met there.

You know, a part of me DID always know that my H would cheat some day...b/c I knew how much he wanted that other experience(that is one part of the Monogamy myth that I have seen that I agree with...society certainly has told him that being with only one person made him a loser...not an excuse though, I know). I told him and our families many times that if given the opportunity, he would say yes with no second thoughts( and remember he had none...and very little guilt). I don't know if most men are like this, but he just cannot say no to sex when it is offered aggressively. I also think that is part of the reason that I fear it will happen again. However, I think he has realized that he cannot even let a woman get close enough to BE that aggressive. I do not think he will ever think of sex like I do...but I can only pray that he has seen what can happen and at least has those boundries in place.

I am so happy that you can look in the mirror and feel good about yourself. DO NOT LET HIS A TAKE THAT AWAY!!!!! I know it is a natural thing to do after an A, but you ARE all those things that you believe about yourself. Feel proud that you can now add EXTREMELY forgiving and compassionate, too <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Yes, Rocked....funny man. Do you ever give a straight answer??? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> Ha ha

Oh...I would also like to ask for prayers as we are going to the doc today to check out some problems that my H has been having with his joints. One doctor told him what it was, but now we are going to a specialist..b/c the first guy was a quack! Any prayer would be greatly appreciated.

TTYL!!!

True <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

True, I often wondered how shocked you really were to find out your H cheated. If my H would ever bring up swinging in a somewhat serious way, we would have been to MC the next day! Not to say you failed in anyway, but that is a pretty BIG red flag. Of course I had my own BIG red flags that I ignored, because you simply can't put your head around the fact that it could be true. So I understand why you may have ignored it. I'm sure I could tell you guys things that happened and you would be saying "DUH! Pretty BIG red flag!"

Anyway, I never thought my H would cheat because of what you are saying True. My H (and I) both had our fair share of sexual adventures before we were saved and then married. He started at 14 and kept up a pretty constant pace till we met when he was 19 and had given his life to the Lord. I too had several years of indiscriminate sex between a serious high school boyfriend and my H. I thought we were both done with that...I know I was. We had sowed our wild oats!

So that is why I struggled so much with believing my H loved OW because it would not have been just for the sex. Wild oats were sowed, we had an active and fun sex life, I was very accommodating in bed. He must have loved her.

But I now believe he lusted for her. Why? I'm not sure. He could have had a much prettier girl. But I think it was like you said True, allowing someone to get so close that curiousity creaps in. After learning about my H poor boundries that he has had in place since we married, I've often been surprised that she was the only one.

I think my H has learned how lax boundries can be very dangerous. I fully expect him to behave appropriately in the future.

I'm home sick today. I couldn't even make it to my beloved bible study group on tuesday mornings. Feeling pretty bad. I should be around all day for anyone feeling like chatting today.

2

Have I ever given a straight answer?

No. I mean, yes.

HA HA Rocked.

2,
Yes, swinging could be a red flag, but it was never brought up in a way that I thought he would have an A. That probably doesn't make sense, but there are different kinds of swinging and the kind that appealed to him was us together...no private meetings. I have to admit that sometimes my curiosity arose and I said that it would be fun to try those types of things. I had even consider really giving it a try when I could see that he would never let the thought of it go. I know that is not the right way, but every time we had sex he brought it up and I was almost like...heck, let's get this out of the way so he can see that sex is sex no matter who you do it with. He always told me that he just wanted variety. I was also VERY accomidating in the bedroom(even OW wouldn't so some of things we did). I was honestly happy being with just him. I never had a problem with being a virgin when we met. I had done my fair share of experimenting in other ways...I really believed that sex should be saved for the one you truly love. It was a sacred bond. It linked you forever. Now, he is linked to her forever as well as me. I understand his curiosity, don't get me wrong...I just can't believe the way he satisfied it.

I unlike you however, still believe it was about more than just sex. If it had been...he would have gotten what he wanted and then been done. Instead, he wrote her a beautiful "love" letter the next day expressing how close the night before had made them, and that it was not just sex but something much bigger than that. If you are just out to do it and find out what it is all about, you do not think to yourself how you and your "friend" can never go back to just being friends...you are now more than that...even before the sex occured. I believe that it must have been love(maybe in it's lowest form, but love nonetheless) b/c even before the sex ever came into the picture he cared more about her feelings than mine when he didn't tell me that she had basically told him that she thought they were on the path to more than just friendship and he had to set her straight(which even in THAT letter he admitted to her that he has wished that they could be more than just friends...then saying UNFORTUNATELY I am married). If it had just been sex, the next day when he realized that he had "started" to develop feelings for her(which he told me I could never do if I slept with someone else) he would have ended it then and there. He would have said to himself that sex with her was not worth losing even one feeling for me and giving it to her. Heck, if it was just sex...I don't think there would have ever even been that feeling of "closeness" during or afterward. So, no, I do not believe that my H went into the A for just sex. He may have fooled himself into believing that to justify it in his own mind...but there is no way you can do what he did and feel the way he did with her in the SHORT time they were together unless you consciously decided to do so, or maybe more accurately...are willfully blind to what is happening.

I am sorry that you are feeling bad. Being sick SUCKS!

Well, off to do those motherly duties we all love soooo much!

True

So...how 'bout them White Sox???



See, I am here to bring back balance when necessary and keep you gals from "overdwelling-itus".



Go Brewin's!!!!!!!!!

I will have to go back when I have more time to read more indepth your posts...
but for now....holiday, well thats the time of year this was happening. I made the "h" not "H", for it was not a joyous Holiday. My holidays last year were pretty rotten.


2-this is where I was after the first A...but I am doing so much better. I too didn't think my self esteem was low, but a WS's A can bring you so far down.

Rocked- I thought because your witt likes to "rock the boat", ha! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

peace,
holiday

So at MC today our C starts preparing us for the "grief and mourning stage" of my H leaving his job. It is the only job he's had our entire marriage. I"ve seen him grow up there. We both have great memories of Grammy's and concerts and games and lots of other fun things. I know him leaving will be hard on me, but I never thought of it as a "loss" that would require a grieving period. As soon as she said "mourning the loss" I wanted to scream, "Forget it! I can't mourn anymore losses!" But instead I said "I never thought of it that way. I guess I need to prepare for that." Uugghh!

I feel so tired from a year of grieving the loss of my marriage and my H. I don't know if I feel up for grieving something else. I feel exhausted!

True, I know you moved shortly after the A. I know you wanted it, but was there any grief or issues that arose from that that complicated healing from the A?

We are watching the game in the 10th inning right now. Baseball's not so bad when you only watch 1 inning a year!

Go BRUINS! Ha ha Rocked Brew'ins at other less academic schools...like maybe USC.
2

First I need to say once again....GOOOOOOOO SOX!!! Woo Hoo!

Now, on to your question. Hmmm...grief from leaving NC??? Well, yes and no. I am certainly glad that I do not have to deal with him working with her and accidently running into her somewhere....but there were disadvantages.

Although I am still at home now, it looks like for us to survive I am going to have to go back to work. There will be a great sadness when that day comes.

It may sound shallow, but I also miss the material things that we had. I LOVED our house, and when we moved here, the house came with the job(one of the reasons that we could take the pay cut) and the house is old, and beat up and small. It has put us back to living like we did when we first got married. I cannot just go out for a day of shopping anymore, and we live so far from anything anyway...who would want to?

There was no real grief with the job, like you might have. My H had only been there for 2 years, and he hated it the whole time. He never really had anything to do there, and they did not have as good of benefits as it sounds like your H has had. I think that job was a major cause for the A. You know how they talk about EN? Well, you cannot meet all of those when your S is so miserable for 10 hours everyday, and you are not near. She could meet some of those needs, and she was in the same building offering herself up. My councelor said that she was like a savior figure in many ways to him when the A started. I think that is true.

So, I guess I really do not have many issues with him leaving his job...except the finances...but he did work for the government, so with Bush cutting all that funding, who knows how long he would have had that job anyway.

Talk to you later.

True

Going back to work is my biggest fear. I loved my job prior to kids, but don't think I could handle the stress and long hours of returning to that kind of work. So I'm not sure what I'd do if I went back to work. I really don't want to either. I have my heart set on a career change when my son goes to pre-school next year. I have a lot of prep work for that career that I plan on starting in Jan. If it got sidelined because I had to work, I'd be pretty crushed. Yet, I realize with this job change, it could be a possibility. I'd hate that. What kind of work do you do True?

After MC I realized that our whole lifestyle will change. We no longer can just show up to any event we want. We will lose our membership to a country club, trips to Vegas (like when I met Holiday) are no more. Of course if my H makes the money he expects, it won't matter because we'll be able to pay for it all ourselves. But that will take some time getting up and running and so for now, I too have to prepare for no more shopping sprees, no more massages when I feel like it, no more fancy dinners just cuz. It will be a big adjustment and my MC is right, I will probably mourn it. Keep that in prayers for me.

Feeling better today after a good night sleep. Taking the kids out today to the pumpkin patch.

Have a blessed one!
2

Hi 2,

I was a first grade teacher before my 3rd D was born. After her, we were finally making enough money, my H had just gotten his PhD and his new job, and we decided that to put three kids in daycare would cost probably as much as I would be making.

I have seriously considered going back to school to become a counselor. My mom is a counselor and when I was younger I wanted to be one as well. I was always afraid that I would take my job home, though, so I never pursued it. Now, I don't think I would do that. I was able to separate school from home when I needed to. Plus, I feel that I have had some life events that could guide me in many different types of cases. The only thing I fear is that I would probably tell a FWS that he/she needs to take all responsibility and needs to completely give himself to the BS. That he/she must give up all rights or entitlement feelings...he/she has already done enough damage. I don't think that would go over well <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" />

I do not think I want to go back to teaching. Too many people nowadays blame the public school teachers for all of the educational woes...and I do not want to deal with those politics again. Teachers are the most underappreciated group of workers out there, who do one of the most beneficial things for us all(you know the old saying...no other job is possible without the help of a teacher). I am just sick of people like Pres. Bush who blame them, when the real problems lie with the parents, the economic sitch of our country, very little funding, and some poor teachers who cannot be replaced b/c teachers make so little money that they cannot bring/keep anyone in the profession. That's my soapbox for the day.

However, I do get a little twitch to go back now and then when my kids come home and tell me that their teachers are doing this or that. I think...heck, I could do that better...or I did that and my kids in my class had soooo much fun.

Anyway, glad you are feeling better. We did not get to bed until 2am since we watched ALL 14 innings of the WS game. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> So, I am tired today, but actually quite peppy. I finished my costume and it looks really good. I should get some sewing tips from you, Holiday, as I am just learning and cannot make a straight line to save my life...hee hee. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

TTYL!!!

True <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Hey Guys,

I'm about to rant. So let me thank you ahead of time for listening. I have not called my H yet, because I'm hoping ranting here will make me feel better.

My H assistant called me about an hour ago to say that in addition to the company going away, his department wants to do a going away with staff and significant others. So she starts going over options of things we could do. I said, "maybe we'll just have everyone over our house!" She knows about the A and we talked about it before, so she says to me "Won't that put you in a difficult position?" So I said "Oh, she won't come." So she says "Well, we've discussed it at work and she said as long as significant others are invited she would come." So I said "I highly doubt it. But if we do do it at our house, she doesn't have to be invited!" And she said "OK, let me know what you want to do."

So after I hung up with her I started thinking, "Why would she come? She e-mailed my H a month ago letting him know she is avoiding him, and now she wants to come to his going away party?" So I'm totally bothered to say the least. I thought about it and thought about it and decided that she's not coming. I don't want to sit around uncomfortable all night while I see her try to make my H jealous by hanging all over her new loser boyfriend. That is the only reason I can see that she'd want to come....to put on some front that she is so happy with new boyfriend. Maybe she is...I don't care! So I don't want her there. I expect her to show to the all staff going away which is just a stop in and say good-bye, but maybe she won't. But to hang with her and her boyfriend all night...NOT GOING TO HAPPEN!

So I initally wanted to call my H and go off about it and tell him NO WAY IS SHE COMING! But I decided to calm down and vent here instead. So I'll try to discuss it with him rationally tonight. I'm sure he doesn't want her there either, but finding a tactful way to invite everyone but her might pose a dilemma. But at this point...I don't care!

So there is my rant.

Anyway, True I agree that teachers get no respect. Few jobs do anymore these days...especially stay at home moms! But none the less I'm sure it is a rewarding and fulfilling job and in the whole scheme of things having the opportunity to greatly affect the life of a child is wonderful.

I too had considered being a family counselor before D-day. My interest is now gone. I don't think I can be objective either based on my experience. Besides I have other goals.

I'll let you know what we do about OW at party.
2

Congrats True! I watched the last 2 innings with my H. He was elated! I'm sure everyone's hubbys are thrilled tonight.

So I discussed the above scenerio with my H. I have some thoughts, but it is late, so I'll share tomorrow. Just wanted to congratulate you True.

Go BRUINS!
2

Did the WS win the series?

Who do the powder blue play this weekend?

Nothing I need to rant about so I'll sign off.

Yes, WS won. UCLA plays Stanford. We leave tomorrow morning to go for the game.

Feeling really lousey today. Spent last night crying for an hour. Wish my life hadn't turned out this way.

Go BRUINS!
2

2,

I am sooooo sorry that you are feeling lousy. I hate those down times when you just wish your life was different.

I think you are right in not inviting the OW. If it is at your house you have every right to say who is there and who is not. Do not feel guilty and do not worry about any problems...your H is LEAVING that job...what can they do if you don't invite her...fire him??? She does not need to be there, and I can't believe that she would want to put herself in that sitch other than the reasons you mentioned before.

How did the talk go with your H? What were his thoughts? Have you decided anything? Let us know if you need us.


Yes, Rocked, WS won. My hubby was spraying Champagne all over the place outside. He got it all over our porch and door! I was so tired from some allergy med. that I took that it was a muted happiness for me...I think I was in shock also. How are you feeling today? Good I hope. How is life in your neck of the woods lately? I also hope it is good.

Anyway, I better go. Driving up to Chi Town early tomorrow. The are having a parade for the Sox. Hee hee. We are not actually going up FOR that, but maybe we will go to it. We'll see.

Hope you all have a good weekend, and I will try to check in, just in case somebody needs to chat.

TTYL.

True

Watch out that no parade confetti gets in your eye. That could be painful.

Go Bruins!

Go Jags!

Go away OW!

Yes, I talked to my H about it last night. I think that is why I'm down today. Just the fact that my reality now includes all this drama he created.

Anyway, I told him I didn't want her there. He asked what my suggestion was. I said 1) we flat out do not invite her or 2) make a general invitation to all the staff then send her an e-mail and "respectfully request" that she not attend. That is what we both are leaning toward.

Now, do I send the e-mail forwarding the earlier e-mail where she made it clear that she was avoiding my H and say "OW, per your earlier e-mail attached, we hope that you will continue to honor the agreement with H to avoid each other. Therefore we respectfully request that you do not attend any going away parties for H. I wish you the best at company and in life. Sincerly, 2" or does my H send her an e-mail that says basically the same thing. The reason I'm thinking of sending it is 1) it will continue with the NC outside of work situation and it doesn't call for a chance for her to respond to him and 2) she'll know that he forwarded me the last e-mail she sent him and give her a heads up on any others that she might think to send.

Orginally, I only cared if she came to the staff going away that was going to be more intimate. But the more I think about it, I don't want her at either. So I'm thinking she needs to be sentthat e-mail early next week. Thoughts?

Anyway, that's whats up with me.
2