Good morning.

Well 2, hopefully this will all come out okay (I think it will).
I am off for the weekend to my SIL in Phx, Az with H and D.

Have a nice weekend and don't hit the Halloween candy too early (our 5 lb bag is already gone!).

holiday

Happy Halloween!

Rocked, did you see my BRUINS? Did you see the comeback of the year?! Oh my gosh! What an amazing game! My sister and her husband had left, they were so sure we had just gotten our butts kicked. But my H and I stayed and boy were we glad! 8 minutes left to come back from a 21 point deficit and then to win the game in OT! Can I just tell you that the loyal BRUINS who went all the way to Stanford for the game, were going ABSOLUTELY NUTS! It was one of the most exciting UCLA games I've ever been to. That makes us 8-0 Rocked...UNDEFEATED!

Anyway, my H and I had a brutally honest talk last night. It ended with him going for a bike ride at 11:30 at night. Basically I was watching an Oprah about a 9/11 widow and how she was still devestated over what happened. She basically was saying that she'll never be the same and I just said "I know how she feels." So when it was over my H asked me how did I relate to her. And so I told him the truth that my life would never be the same. I would never love the same, trust the same or believe the same. That my dream in life had been totally shattered and I spend most days feeling like life has disappointed me because the biggest dream I ever had (to be home and happy) has been destroyed. I explained that last year at this time, I was living my dream. I was home with my kids, in a beautiful house, able to afford nice luxuries. I had a successful H who I loved and believed in and who I really believed would never hurt me like this. We were happy and healthy and then one day it all came to an end. I explained that with that dream gone, I often feel lost in life and long to dream again. I feel sad that my dream is gone forever and though I'm often able to enjoy the moment (like the football game) I often am unable to enjoy (the way I used to) all the other aspects of life. My zest is clearly gone.

I used his football playing dream shattered when he was injured as an analogy I thought he'd relate to. He did. And unfortunately we came to no conclusions except to go to bed and him for a bike ride. I told him (truthfully) that I still often ponder if staying together was the right thing. He has changed for the better no doubt, but I have not. I am not better than I was a year ago, I'm a lot worse. And I often wonder if I will ever be able to dream about the happy family again with him because of what he's done. I feel I owe it to myself and kids to try and make this work. We have had great times this last year, he has worked very hard, I have forgiven him, but that doesn't change the fact that I will never be the same...I'm afraid I will never feel the same about him...ever.

Deep in my heart though I wonder if we will make it. I wonder if 3 years from now, I still don't have that "believe in you fully love" like I used to have, that I might say "I want to try and find that again....sorry." I don't know. That is how I feel sometimes.

I don't know if this is pre 1 year anniversary of d-day syndrome or not. But truthfully, I have been able to forgive and been able to be happy at times, but I do still grieve daily for my lost dream...and all the other things that come with that. I was explaining that instead of being proud and excited to attend his going away party Friday, I'm consumed with the fear of seeing her. My own son's birthday (this past weekend) is riddled with painful reminders of how just weeks later he started an A. I explained it all, very calmly and I guess you could say it was a "good honest talk", but a painful one because the truth hurts.

Anyway, lots to get ready for Halloween tonight. Sorry to be so long, but I needed to update you guys. Hope you are all doing good.
2

Hi all. Yes, Happy Halloween...one of my favorite holidays!!! I told my H that he had taken away all joy for the next three months awhile ago....that I will never be able to enjoy this time of year again....I guess that has changed a little, since I had a really good pre-Halloween weekend. I am hoping it stops raining so we can go out and not get soaked.

Anyway, I almost wrote on Sat. night. I sorta had the same feelings as you, 2. We were at my MIL's house and I kept thinking...will I ever be able to come into this house without feeling that the ghost of the OW is not haunting it(good Halloween analogy, huh??) She was never in the house, but she haunts it just the same, especially around this time of year. I also wondered if I would ever be able to love my H the same way I did when were at that house during the A. Obviously, I do not want him to love me like he did then, since I think he was losing love for me by the second, but pouring it out to her.

Last night, my H was trying on his costume from last year(although he said out of respect for me that he would not wear it). He and I see that costume differently. He looks at it as something that he and I did together, before the A started, and that it is special for US b/c we made it together. I look it as a reminder that he paraded(literally) around with her at work, that she told him he was sooo handsome in it, that he talked to her that night after the kids and I went to bed, that he cared about what she thought more than me. It is a reminder to me that he was lying to me about her even before the "true" A started, and that he didn't care about what I thought at all. I feel stupid, b/c at the time I felt we were bonding while we were designing it, AND b/c of the election last year...we were talking and spending an enormous amount of time together, and I felt really close to him...instead, I was farther from him than I ever was. How could I have been so stupid???

I also grieve daily for my loss. I do not let it bring me down all the time anymore, but I still grieve. I do not think I will ever love him the same way again...nor do I want to. I do miss trusting him completely, and I hate some of the things that have changed about me...but I am also glad he is a better person now. He tells me that he is "in love" with me now more than ever...and I always wish I could tell him the same. There will never be the same connection that we once shared, and that I grieve all the time. Looking back at old pictures this weekend made me really sad...I thought...how could he do what he did? How could he NOT think of me? Look how perfect we have always been. How could I not matter to him even for a second?

You know, I cannot imagine life without him either. I thought, if I met someone new, all I could talk about is my life with him. Not because I am so pathetic I don't have my own life(although, I will shamefully admit that my life is wrapped up in him and my kids...I really don't have an outside life, and I have never really wanted one), but b/c he has been there for half of it, and even if I got divorced from him, he would always be one of the family. He has been around longer than my little brother, and I just cannot imagine him not around. I cannot imagine not talking to him every day. That is why I cannot believe that he could have an A. He is in my every thought...even when I do not want him there. I guess I was just not as important to him...that is a tough pill to swallow.

On the other hand, I also should report that for the first time since d-day when we walked past a bridal store, I did not even think of the A...I thought about how beautiful the dresses were....it was only about a half an hour later that I realized I passed a bridal store and was not sad. Must be a good step, right?

Well, better go. I just want you all to know now that d-days are basically here, I will try to be here when you call. I know that this weekend is going to be really tough for me..and I believe Rocked and 2, you guys might have some rough spots too. I hope I am wrong and we all sail through the weekend spot free. I love ya all!!! We can do it!

TTYL!

True <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

True, our feelings seem the same except the part about not imagining him in my life. I realize he will always be in my life because of the kids. He will never go away and I think we could be friends...like Demi Moore and Bruce Willis. I like to think that I would be delighted if he got a chance to marry someone and do things TOTALLY right this time and I think sometimes that I would like to do the same...marry someone else and return to that feeling of being so loved, cherished and respected that my H could never look at another person...or at least I could think that.

Prior to d-day I never imagined life without him...now I do all the time. Maybe I came closer to any of you of thinking that was really going to happen...my H moved out, exactly one week from today last year. I wasn't sure he was coming back after I learned of his EA with OW. Reminder I didn't learn of real A until after he had moved back home.

He had move out and the very next day I learned of the phone calls. I had to call him that night and actually ask him if he was leaving me for OW. I really thought he might. I don't know if any of you came that close to being left...but I feel I was and so I had to imagine life without him and I have done so with some satisfaction actually.

Today is the anniversary of my H proposing to me. Halloween night 1996. I hadn't even thought about it and now that I am, I'm so sad I could cry. Wouldn't say yes today.

This is a very bad time of year. 2 years ago his A started and 1 year ago I found out everything. So it is a double whammy of hurt and pain for me. My actual d-day isn't til the 29th of Nov., but next week is when I found the phone bills and everything began to fall apart.

So yes, I will try to be here for everyone as much as I can with the grief very strong. I am glad that 1 year later, we are all still here, still friends, still for each other.

Bless you guys
2

Happy Halloween!

Okay you two...now I am going to "stir the pot"!

Have you both read your posts over? Granted, you are due your feelings, truly...but there are sure alot of "me's" and "my's" floating through them...if you catch my drift.

holiday

I don't.
2

Yes, Holiday, they are selfish. I tend to be a little more selfish now. It is not a habit that I admire about myself, but I am tired of being the giver. Betrayed spouses should not have to be the giver, yet they are. I bet if you look at all of our marriages pre-A, you will find that WE are the ones who gave to the marriage from day one, that we actually should have been more likely to have an A, but b/c we are givers we didn't. Now, after the A, we are still giving and giving and giving. We push away the hurt everyday just so that we can function, we forgive an unforgivable sin so that we can give our children the lives they deserve, and so that we can love our spouses again with that giver spirit. It is draining, and I know that you know it. I get tired of giving. I get tired of trying to forget that my H stopped loving me. I want to feel loved beyond belief and believe that I am so special that the man that I love will be devoted to me for life. I KNOW that is selfish and filled with "I's"...but somedays, **mnit, I GET to be selfish too. I GET to be a taker.

It is hard to watch the person who hurt you beyond belief not only become a better person out of the pain he has caused, but get to enjoy life without any real consequence while you continue to die inside. It is hard to be a giver when all you want to do is scream...How can someone who did something so evil get to have the life that he has always wanted, while I continue to give up the things that I love to do so that he won't feel rejected or whatever you say you felt before the A???

I vent to you guys, I do not vent to my H. And he is never on here anymore. I have not told you guys how I have felt my H pull away from me the last couple of weeks. It has been tough for me. I have noticed little things that make me suspicious and I do not know if I should be or if it is just my mind playing tricks on me. So, if I come across a little more selfish and maybe a little more bitter than normal...that is the reason. I hate being suspicious, and I hate believing that there should be a reason. I always felt assured before of my H's love and devotion...now, I know that he had none for me, and that I now REALLY have reason.

Holiday, I do admire you. I do not know how you do it. All I can say is that I am not you and I cannot be the giver you are asking me to be right now. Maybe in January...maybe even December, but not right now.

TTYL!

True

Hey True,

Sorry to hear about your suspicions. We know about the strange phone call, what else is going on?

Yeah, my H left last night at 11:30pm for a "bike ride" after our talk. Of course part of me was suspicious and the other part of really didn't care. That is what makes me sad. When I do get suspicious and wonder if he is cheating on me again, I 1) expect it and 2) sometimes hope for it so I can really be done and move on.

Holiday, these post were "our" feelings, but I'm not sure why that is relavant. That is the point!
2

No, no, you aren't catching my drift...

I, in no way, think you are being selfish.

I just feel (my feelings here only), that when you say that your relationships will never be the same, I want to say DUH!!!!!!

I feel that this in time could make your relationship stronger. Perhaps from the ashes, a new foundation will be built.

WE WILL NEVER HAVE EXACTLY WHAT WE HAD BEFORE, OVER AND DONE.

What we will have is something different. Which with, again, comes no guarantees. Isn't that called life? We each have gone through a family crisis and with God's help we are surviving it.

If our FWS choose to move on, or we choose to move on, at least we tried. We most definitely tried. And I don't think in one year or probably in even two, we will ever be able to feel the innocence of love we once had for our spouses. How could we?

Venting is wondeful here. We do have rights to our feelings. It's just sometimes when one or both or all of us get into a "funk", somebody best turn on the positive, or we all may slide.

I still get suspicious, I still have feelings of betrayal, I still have doubts, and yes, I still don't understand completely why this happened to ME, twice even.

I do think I get through this, as I have said before, because that is my choice to, just as you both are continuing to do.

I am not asking that either of you be a giver. I was a giver beyond a giver's requirements too. It was my choice. Giver's get themselves in these sitchs and then hold resentments. I don't give as much as before, but you know, my H doesn't even know the difference.

I don't think you truly believe you are the only one in your marriage True, that is going through the pain of all this. My H just needs to look at my face on a down day. I don't think he's proud of his actions at all. I think he feels he's not quite worth my time.

Love,
holiday

Good point Holiday. I know my H doesn't feel like he is living life without a care in the world because he too knows how much he hurt me. I believe it hurts him too.

True, have you given any thought to what you would do if you found out your husband was talking with OW again? In light of my H departure from his job, it is very fresh in my mind...their last good-bye, what if she contacts him now that he's left and he entertains the idea?

I have made it very clear that if I should find out that he even talked to her one time after he leaves and doesn't tell me about it, I will bounce! I know they interacted while he worked there. But now that he is leaving...not even 1 time. If she contacts him, he better tell me because if he doesn't and I find out, then it is lying to me and hiding it from me and betraying me and I am NOT doing that again!

You just might want to put it all out there for your H True what you will do...then you have to do it!

Anyway, I'll be doing MC by myself tomorrow because my H has going away stuff to do. That's good because I have a lot to say that he probably won't want to hear.

Talk tomorrow!
2

Holiday,
I see where you are coming from, but just b/c we are here and are chosing to try and make a better life does not mean that I do not grieve the old one. You know, we all say that we don't want the pre-A marriage back, b/c it was vulnerable for the A, but the truth of the matter is...I do want that back. I would give anything to go back to that marriage, even if just for a day. Actually, I guess what I really wish is that I could have done what was necessary before the A and now be trying for that new marriage without the hurt I feel.

As for me being the only one in pain....no, I do not believe that, but I also do not believe that any of our H's(or W in Rocked's case) could possibly feel the hurt we feel. When I said move on with very little consequence, I was talking about my H in particular, b/c he is very good at putting things behind him quickly. He is over the A, and my bad moods do bring him back to the reality of the sitch, but I bet your H's would also say that they cannot believe that you are feeling the amount of hurt you are feeling still, after one year, when they have all basically moved on. Plus, I also feel like my H is getting this "better" wife and what do I get? A better H? Yes, in some respects, but also the H who did not love me enough when it counted, one who I will always wonder if he is off doing someone else, one who will always hold the title cheater...even if I never bring it up again.

As to your question 2, yes I have also told my H that if there is EVER contact then I find out later, I am gone. However, he did contact her one other time right after d-day, to tell her not to call his cell phone, and I found out a week later. I had already told him NC and I was still around...so, I am now changing my position on what i would do a little.

I want him to always be honest with me, and to tell me whenever ANYONE comes on to him like the OW did. One of the reasons he kept it from me was he knew how I would react, and I do not want to shut the door on him coming to me when something like that happens again. Also, he did not tell me about the kiss, b/c I had once told him that if he even KISSED another woman, I would be gone. Now, I would give anything for that kiss to have been it. I would have gone and kicked the OW's *ss.

Plus, I will never again say "I will leave you if you cheat on me", b/c I said it once and I didn't leave when it happened, so why say things that I have proven to be a liar about?? I already showed him that I will stay with him no matter what he does, so why should he ever "obey" any ultimatum that I put out there. I guess obey is a bad word...why should he ever choose to care that I have said "I will leave" when I once told him that there were only two things that would EVER make me leave him...physical abuse, or cheating...and he didn't care then...and now, I have shown him that I won't. There is no reason for him to ever be faithful to me again, b/c he already knows he can get away with it.

Anyway, hope you all had a good Halloween. We did, except it never did stop raining. Oh well.

TTYL!

True <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Hey all. Not sure if I told you of recent happenings with ole' Rocked. I had surgery (minor) last week, attended funeral of my Grandmother, and the Jags lost.

I'm doing much better (Dance shows will have to be put on hold for awhile), Grandmother is in heaven, and the Jags need to take lessons from the BRUINS! Congrats, 2.

My (D)iscovery-Day is Nov.10; Confrontation Day Nov.11. I would appreciate your prayers, as I will pray for you all. I've had similiar momentary feelings about things never being the same again as originally between my W and I. And though that is true there can still be very good times together...just different. God doesn't waste a hurt. Holiday has a point too...if we remain too "me" focused we'll NEVER get past the hurt feelings. Besides, I've always been a proponent that BOTH partners have/had a part in creating the environment for an affair. I don't mean both are "guilty", just both have had a hand in the climate of the marriage.

Enough of that. Gotta run. Probably already stirred the pot a bit too much on such a tender weekend for us all. I too care very much for all you all.

When's the party in Vegas?

Oops. I hadn't read this whole page of comments before posting mine. My favorite quote (from True) that I identify with all too much is...

"It is hard to watch the person who hurt you beyond belief not only become a better person out of the pain he has caused, but get to enjoy life without any real consequence while you continue to die inside."

Later!

Holiday and I already had a party in Vegas Rocked. You missed it! Sorry to hear about your surgery and Grandma, but I love your perspective. You stay positive...in which case you might not want to read what I'm going to write below!

Still in a very bad place. Still feeling like this thing isn't going to work in the long run. It's been since Sunday since I've been able to look at him. When I get this way, I can't even look him in the eye.

After this weekend with my sister and her H who by all accounts are doing well in marriage, I've begun to wonder again if my H and I are meant to be together. I feel like we are not really compatible and that is why the A happened in the first place. My H and I are very different people, from very different backgrounds and now I see how that has greatly affected our marriage. I don't want to get into a hundred examples of what I mean and bore you to death, but I will say that aside from Football, Christianity and our children, we have about nothing else in common. And I don't think that necessarily defines a good marriage, but coupled with the TOTALLY different upbringing and background and I feel like this isn't going to work out.

After my 5 year relationship with my high school nightmare, I changed my views on love and believing that it is much more important to be with a person for life who has other characteristics like hard worker, good father, Christian, etc. I married my H based on these and felt so fortunately to geniunely love and adore him. But when I think about what was the GREATEST attraction for me to him, what made me love him so deeply it was without a doubt the fact that I admired him. He picked himself up from a very underprivelged life to excel professionally and by all accounts in life with a devoted wife, kids and lovely home. But I don't admire him anymore. He is average joe man now and I am no longer impressed with where he came from, I'm disgusted by where he has been.

Now I find myself saying that all the things I thought were so important, hard working, good father, etc. don't matter as much as just feeling loved by the one you are with. I still have a hard time feeling his love for me. I guess I don't believe it.

On the contrary True, I always told my H that cheating 1 time was forgivable but more than that not. We are entitled to make mistakes. But now that I'm in this, I don't feel that way anymore. I feel like so much has been destroyed, so much stolen away by this, that I don't want to stick around. It isn't about forgiveness, it is about knowing when to say enough and I feel close to that these days.

An analogy I gave my H was he is about to embark upon a business venture and pursue his dream. Let's say they are tremendously successful and he does well. Then let's say 5 years into the company he finds out his partner (a Christian) has embezzled an enormous sum of money and the business is bankrupt. Now lets say my H losses everything, car, house and livlihood to pay back debt and most importantly his dream that he was living. Let's say my H is able to forgive his former partner and pick himself up and move on. Would he ever go into business with this guy again? Would he ever trust this guy the same in any other endeavors? Maybe we'd have him over for dinner, but would we ever give him a cent of our money to handle? I think not!

And yet, that is what I'm being asked to do. To stay in a partnership and give myself and my heart to someone who has bankrupt me and shattered all my dreams. How does this make sense? It isn't about forgiveness, it is about common sense. And the Bible made the exception for divorce adultry...why? Could it be that our God understands how this destroys the absolute foundation of a happy and healthy marriage?

I know that many people go forward from adultry and do fine. My parents never did. My mother told me many times "I never felt the same toward him." A year later, that is where I am. I think of Halle Berry who divorced her H after his A's years later. She said, I just couldn't deal with the fact that what was once never a thought, was a contast thought. If he went out for milk the thought wasn't "Oh, he's going out for milk", the thought became "I wonder if he is really going to be with someone else." She decided she didn't want to live like that anymore. And seeing that she tried for many years to make her marriage work, I do not fault her for that. The other night when my H went on a bike ride, same kind of thought entered my mind. I don't want to live like that.

Anyway, MC today by myself. Asked H to e-mail OW and ask her not to come Friday to his party. I'll keep you posted.

Sorry so long and that I'm in such a bad place.
Blessings!
2

Never be sorry that you are in a bad place and that you post long posts. That is why we are here.

I can relate to your feelings. I have felt those many times, and can tell you that the only thing that kept me here many times were the three beautiful faces looking up at me and telling me that they loved me AND their dad.

It is funny that you mention Halle Berry. I just watched Catwoman and throughout that whole movie I thought..."How in the **ll could her husband cheat on her???" She is so beautiful. How could he possible want sex from someone else??? I did not know that she worked years on the marriage...I just thought that he was a sex addict and she left. But, I can totally relate to what she said. I think that is where my suspicion has been coming from lately. Little things that never would have bothered me before now consume my thoughts. Why did he sign on the computer at work and not IM me? Why is he going into the lab a lot more now? Why did he say at 2 am that he forgot to turn off one of the drains at work and leave for 15 minutes? We live at the same place he works and it still drives me crazy when he goes back over there unexpectedly. I am like you, 2, when I get suspicious, I sort of expect him to be cheating, sometimes hope he is so that I can leave and at the same time dread finding out and taking my kids and start a life that would be pretty tough as a single mom.

It is always tough for me to be around my family members who marriages seem to be doing well. It always reminds me of what I had at one time, and have now lost and will never get back.

My H and also have nothing in common(ok...I know Holiday will hit me with a 2x4 for saying nothing...so we do have SOME things in common). I have told him many times that we are uncompatible. I also believe this is one of the reasons he had the A. He and the OW had much more in common. I think mostly, there main ENs were the same...so, they took care of them easily. My H and I are not like that at all. I love to read..he hates it...my reading always made him feel rejected by me, b/c when I am "in" to a book I lose all track of time and reason...he wanted me to be like that to him all the time. So now I don't read anymore. He is a night owl, and I am a morning person...one reason he started the emailing with the OW was b/c she stayed up and talked to him while her fiance was sleeping. He had a companion at night for once. Now, I stay up with him until at least midnight every night. He also finally found someone sexually compatible with him. Not that we did not have a good sex life, but she was much more in tune with his views of sex. I haven't changed this, but have even considered it(as I told you before).

So, 2, I know what you mean. We have always been different. I once thought it was a good thing...we could love each other immensely and be closer than anyone we knew, but still be independent and like our own things...now I see that it was a curse.

Anyway, I hope your MC session goes well. I have seriously considered IC. I would not do it with my MC though. I have issues of my own to deal with and do not necessarily want the woman who is trying to save my marriage to try and work with me on them. They are my own and she does not need to know about them.


Have a good night all....talk to you tomorrow.

True <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

OH!!! Rocked, sorry I missed you....I meant to say earlier...I am glad your surgery went well, and am VERY sorry to hear about your grandmother. I hope you are well.

test

Hey guys I was thinking it is time to start a new thread. Are you OK with Old Newbies at 1 year?

I'm exhausted today. I was up late getting stuff ready for the event Sat. I love it, but it is crunch time and I'm so busy I am exhausted.

Anyway, off to my H job with the kids today for their final farewell. I may see OW, I don't know. I will be back to his job Friday for the BIG good-bye party. Still waiting for my H to e-mail OW about not going. I'll keep you updated.

2

2,

Sounds good to me(about the new thread). Glad you are keeping busy. It helps keep our minds focused on other things.

I do not have a busy day planned, but you know whenever I think I get a nice easy day, something comes up....so we'll see.

TTYL!

True

Yesterday at MC my MC told me to keep busy over the next few weeks as anniversary dates arrise. She said it will ease the pain. Well see! Leaving shortly.
2

If we start a new thread would we come up with a whole new name? I'm just curious...now that we've been at this for almost 1 year, what would you 3 gals rename your MB ID? (Be creative!)

And 2...you and Holiday may have "fellowshipped" in Vegas, but with out True and Rocked you definitely DID NOT PARTY!!!