Here's an alternative term to "psycho"... if you's like a suggestion:

"BS may behave like a wounded animal"

which I found to be accurate most of the time

You know, like if you come upon a dog or cat still alive after being struck by a car

sort of dazed
often agressive
and mostly out of it

and.... generally unpredictable

Pep

I continue to sometimes act like the "WOUNDED ANIMAL", as PEP describes, after 18 months in RECOVERY. My FWH sometimes shows glimpses of "THE FOG", making "ALIEN" remarks. This particularly brings out the "WOUNDED ANIMAL". Make note that this is a longstanding characteristic of BSes.




YEP! YEP!


I definitely go through these phases. I was wondering about this.

Thanks, PEP!

Patriot,

I don't mind at all. I hope I didn't come across as dictating how people should speak to each other. I was just trying to say keep other peoples feelings in mind. Just trying to help...

chack

WOW! I really wished my WH was in a place where he could read this. It covers all the bases. Thanks! Maybe someday.....but then again maybe not.

This may be a dumb question, but at what point could it be a good thing to let WH read this? The A is over (I believe), but he is still, I believe, deeply fogbound.

For A WH to read this before he is ready would possibly have the wrong effect, don't you think? So, some questions?

Would it be necessary for a WH to feel remorse before this thread would do any good?

Would it be necessary for a WH to be completely out of the fog before this would be helpful?

Would it be possible to have a positive effect from this with a WH who has probably ended the A and you're 98% sure he has ended contact, but there is the slightest fragment of doubt?

I wouldn't point him this direction anyway until you are through with changing things and getting it in the form and wording you want it in, and possibly started a new thread with it.

Any ideas on my questions?

Hi starz - hopefully a FWS will answer your question.

In my view, your suspicions are headed in the right direction. You should probably default to the standard "don't try to educate" him until he seeks it out himself. So, this info is no different than handing him a copy of SAA and expecting him to embrace it.

WAT

PAT, I cannot tell you how glad I was to see you use the term "psycho" in referring to the BS. No, really. My WH refers to me as "Psycho B*tch" and claims he can't understand AT ALL why I have been so upset. Maybe this would show him that I'm not the only BS to go "psycho."

Please hurry up and finish this!
Mulan

I am not a professional at this, but I will give my views to your questions.

I don't think a WS would be "damaged" further by reading this if they are not ready, although I am not completely sure when "ready" would happen. It is information. If the WS totally disagrees with or can not identify with any of my guidelines, then in my opinion, they are not were they need to be for this to help them. My requirement is a remorseful WS. One who has teh beginnings of understanding that they did something wrong. That it was destructive. And that they want to be part of the solution for the BS. That solution being repair the damage as best they can. As I stated in the rules... the WS being "good" enough to help the BS out of this does not buy them an "avoid divorce" ticket. Really... it is about making what you did wrong, right. Nursing back to health, if you will.

Yes.. remorse is an indicator of "I did something wrong" That said, the evil twin "guilt" is to be guarded against. Sure the WS will feel guilty... but guilt is something your mother made you feel for not doing something she told you... and you resented her for it. Remorse is YOU recognizing that you did something wrong and that you wish to make right of the situation.

As far as completely out of the fog... I don't think so. I think this Guide can help get them out of the fog. At least, that is my hope.

My hope is that this has a positive effect on WS's because it is centered around the MB principles on this site, it is from the view-point of someone who has been there and is still there learning, and that it is getting community input that I am truly trying to keep an open mind to and discuss.

I hope this is helpful in answering your concerns.

What happened in my experience is this:

When actively involved in the A, still a WH, he refused to read any MB stuff, saying "this does not apply to me".

When he moved into the "shame" phase, after exposure, he had counseling with Steve H, read the material but continued with the A. Can't explain this....

Steve H. told me "you can't be a teacher if you don't have a student".

Now, my FWH is truly remorseful, sad and traumatized about his A. He reads alot about this stuff on his own. However, it seems to hurt him if I suggest any reading. This is a phase that you can probably understand better. I know he does not want it to brought up to him how much he has hurt me and our boys. He seems fully aware of this and pained by this. However, I don't feel comfortable asking him to read stuff and I don't feel it is really necessary right now.

I think you are being helpful in helping us BSes understand our WAYWARDS....

Ok... I greatly respect and appreciate all suggestions. Some I have included. Some I have not. The ones I have not I gave a reason why... so if your very important suggestion did not get addressed as to why I wasn't putting it in... then please point that out. Also, I took some ideas from the links posted by Pep and Suzet(i think that is the right person) and then molded things I said to be more in line with those posts. The withdrawl stuff for WSs is important and I would like to address it better. 2Oak is a no-nonsense guy and I really liked reading his post. So thanks for that.

So again... if you think I missed something please re-iterate it. I am sure you understand with login issues on this board, it might be a logistical challenge to deal with all the info when one is pissy at the very boards they are trying to post upon <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

P.S. I'm sticking with psycho. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> I also favor shell shock over post traumatic stress diorder. Besides... I was looking for something that I could get the WS to identify and say "yeah... and they are mean too... those big meanies" and then me turn right around and say, "Yeah? well that would be all YOUR fault" Kind of a reality check. Kick in the nads. Whatever.

this is from 2Oak

"Recovery isn't the absence of an affair, it is the presence of a healthy relationship."

.... and I just love that.... try and sneak this in somewhere

^bump^ for danj

sorry...bumped the wrong thread

bumping because my husband just read this thread

fingers crossed,
Shul

Sorry, bumped this by mistake! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

I'm BW. MB has helped me with a through Plan A & ..... still going.......

Checked out this & found this very insightful re WS.

The question that's being on my mind recently is remorse.
Whatever WH has or has not done, I am bothered cos I judge that WH lacks remorse.

Without remorse, WH will always remain a malfunctioning compass. How can WH get there? Anything anyone, BS, friends, church etc can help get WH there? Can BS help at all? Should BS help? Does this remorse have to be found by WH on his own? But WH is in the fog......

Brief background story
- WH called over the phone to break off with OW 2 weeks ago. No NC letter yet. In absence of NC letter, I made WH swear (on something not exactly pleasant, shall not elaborate here. I did it in moment of anger., regret....)

- WH admitted they have been in contact for biz. They are biz partners.

-Did not followup & insist on NC letter or start WW3 with biz contact due to biz financial issues. Some financial crisis that's having much bigger mindshare of WH than A.

-WH been treating me nice enough & spending time with me. Been updating me activities...

endofworldnomore

me - BW 41
WH 47
Married 16 years, together 19 years
3 kids (14,11, 2)
1st D-day jun05, 2nd D-day jan06
A todate 3 years
OW married to divorcee, separated due to A with another man before WH

Too soon for remorse, EOW...

Has to really be in no contact...none at all, then withdrawal...and judging his remorse will eat your own lunch.

Three years is an LTA, I think. Long withdrawal period ahead...you're looking for a lot and still there are financial binds?

How have you been doing inside of you? Things you are choosing to do...elminating LBs, knowing your own ENs and how much you meet them; seeing relationship patterns, how you both dance, and changing your steps?

LA

Hi LA

Thanks for responding. You've certinly answered my question though must admit it's not the answer I was hoping to get.

I dont mean to mess up this wonderful thread of Pat's. So I started a new thread to reply you. Pls see new thread I posted "Remorse - how does WH get there?" also under Gen Q II.

Thanks once again.

endofworldnomore