I think the heading says it all. We'be been in a false R before, and in & out of R. When do you know for sure that the WS is incapable of being a good spouse?? I just don't know what to think. I'm so disgusted w/ him. I could have handled it better if it was a new OP, but not the original OW because of the type of person she is. Ugh. Is this it? I guess it has to be no matter how painful it is to get a D. My H just doesn't get how painful this is to me. I know many people go through multiple DDays and false R's and now they're truly happy, but I"m just so devastated and I feel so dirty that my H was just holding me and telling me he loved me. What is wrong w/ him? What has become of him? He's sooo different now and I don't think he will ever return to the pre-A H I knew. OK. I'm just babbling now. Anyone out there? Is this it for us?

Butterscotch, I'm so sorry! That is really rotten. I'm not qualified to offer any advice or help to you, but I didn't want you to feel alone. I'm sure more experienced MBers will be along soon.

Oh, I know how this feels! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> What is wrong with these guys?

help, anyone.... do I just throw in the towel? we we're just talking hitting R w/ all our effort and having a great M, and now this... I'm shocked -- completely horrified

ncwalker.. you don't know me, but how did you finally decide to proceed w/ D?

anyone else who's been through this before? when is enough too much? I too shocked to cry at this point -- it's worse than DDay #1

In a way additional dd's are worse, on the other hand your recovery from them w/b quicker. Why? Because you have already been down that road.

Now where are you in your plans? Which ones have your done and what kind of MC support do you have?

L.

thanks Pebbles - I didn't see your reply --- I'm seriously feeling like I'm in shock -- I just can't understand how he could do this, yet alone feel so calm about it and make excuses -- the hypocrisy! and he's oblivious to it...

do I expose A yet again, or do I just divorce?

IMHO, neither..... have you done your plan A and ready to go to plan B? What are your boundaries?

L.

Hi Orchid - thanks for stopping by - I really appreciate it. Well, we have a MC, but H stopped going, and I've counseled w/ SHarley, but H would only speak to him once. I've been in Plan A, then Plan B, then out of Plan A after A ended and NC, then NC broken off & on, and I was supicious that it was more than just talking, and now I know. So, now what do I do? It's so easy to say just Plan B again, but in reality when I read the stories on here the Recoveries required some negotiation and patience. I'm just at a loss as to what to do. Our D has been proceeding again. My H's attitude/thinking is very much that of a WS and I don't know if that will ever change. I don't know if I'm just wasting my time. I do love him, but maybe that's not enough. What do you recommend?

sorry - I keep cross-posting -- I'm just having a complete crisis -- again -- I don't deserve this and I'm having trouble finding the words to express to him just how hurt I am ... all I can say is that "I'm shocked" and "I'm hurt", but that doesn't begin to cover it... how do I express the agony of a BS? He was just playing all these songs for me telling me that he wants me to come home & he love me & blah blah and then I find out just a few weeks ago he was sleeping w/ OW again and says they stopped "seeing each other" again because 'things weren't going well"
when I told him that I felt betrayed again and like he was
playing me, he said he wasn't playing me because we weren't sleeping together at the same time - complete fog talk and justification and I don't know how to express my hurt clearly

Orchid - I was in Plan A and Plan B already, and this was supposed to be Plan R.

One of my boundaries was definitely NC w/ OW or with any other woman who has, or who may, put distance between us. That boundary has clearly been broken.

What do I do in this situation -=-- it's not covered in teh book. help!

I feel completely destroyed. How can he do this to me and our M yet again?! How can she keep sleeping w/ a MM?! I don't understand any of this... I don't know when to just give up... I think I'm too nice and that's why he's so cruel to me ... I guess I'm having a pity party... I'm just horrified

You have identified your boundaries but your plans show they can be broken. You need to get back into counseling with Steve. Not for the WS but for you. Steve will help you get a good plan going and not bouncing back and forth. See the WS doesn't believe you mean what you say and in reality right now neither do you.

Don't do all for the M. Do all to help yourself get stronger. There is no M right now. There is a BS and WS who are at odds.

Learn to turn into the skid to be able to survive. Call Steve ASAP. ok? Then go read the book: His Needs/Her Needs to learn HOW to commicate with your H and the WS. AFter that get ahold of the book: Love must be tough by Dr. James Dobson. It will help you reinforce your plan B.

You have some homework t/d that requires your full attention.

L.

Orchid - just wanted to give you some more info... I've read HN/HN and even Dobson's book, among many ohters, when I went into Plan B I combined the SH Plan B letter w/ the Dobson letter. I mention this only so that you know how much reading and studying i have done. I came out of Plan B only after NC was established, but like many people here, NC was broken and this happened 2x. I feel like I've worked the MB plan to death and it's just teasing me. At what point do I say this is finally it? If the wife in HN/HN had rekindled her A, would there be a HN/HN II? I don't know what to do. Is it worth it at this point? I want to have a family and a good H - when do I throw in the towel w/ my WH?

Your questions are good ones and like you, I also read and had a good MC. Even counseled with Steve. When d/d2, 3, 4, etc. happened at first I wanted to throw in the towel. I did go to see a lawyer to check out my options (not that great for me at that time in CA - me being primary wage earner and all that [email]cr@ap).[/email] Ok, well I had to find another way to tackle this mess.

MB still has a good plan.....but it is for you not the WS. In fact MB plans are never for the WS. Why? Because the WS can NOT be helped until they stop being a WS. What the BS and family can do is show by their actions what the WS will miss as long as he/she remains as such. So it is vital to know the ENs of the WS and for the BS to identify and implement their own boundaries.

Then when the additional d/ds occured, I already had setup my support group, did the exposure thingy, identified my boundaries, implemeneted them, prayed for a clear mind, a calm heart and lots of patience, worked with my MC, posted here for additional support, read, paid close attention when my support group voiced their opinions, worked hard so as NOT to make excuses for the WS behavior, tried NOT t/b a conflict avoider, admitted when I was wrong, worked to improve myself constantly, did not allow the OW to control me, worked hard on NOT allowing the WS to control me and let both the WS and my H know that our family wanted the H back NOT the WS.

Was it easy? No, but it did get easier. I have been posting here for over 4 years, the last recovery for us started in the summer of 2003. Yet the A started dying in Feb 2001. It took a long time to die......and this was with a psycho OW. LOL!!!!

If you don't know when to throw in the towel, then deep inside you are not ready to end your M. You are hurt and need your H back. Not as is but better, even better than before the A.

So take a look, do you know what your H's ENs are? Not the WS, but your H's.

take care,
L.

Orchid.

Thanks for the info. So should I expose again?

My H's top needs are admiration, conversation, SF, affection and household support. We don't live together since I moved out, so SF and household have been more off & on (and SHarley knows about this and approved no SF because of H's A, OW and prostitutes).

I woke up this AM and feel like I should just pack it in w/ WH. I have tried to be strong, but I am looking for a new job thanks to my H, his A and the crazy OW. I cannot go through the depression and turmoil again. I just don't think I"m as strong as you. OUr first round of this junk my H was incredibly cruel and I'm just not up for it again. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> I will call SH for an appointment because even our MC has started to advise me to dump H and move on due to the way he treats me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> This is awful.

A session w/Steve w/b good. Exposure again sounds like a good idea. I did.

What I also did was ask the WS to go and find my H. The real H not this 1/2 crazed OW induced WS. Even the WS agreed he wanted to find H also. So at different moments through the fog, stuff sinks in.

take care,
L.