I am at a loss for words. I have no idea how we got here. It really is like someone eles life. I am still switching back and forth from denial to anger to deep hurt. Hubby and I are trying to pretend things will be OK but I know they will never be the same again. The pain in my heart is so great.

Our families were best freinds. She was my best friend he was my hubbys best friend. Even though my H was with his best friends wife the men.... still want to get past this and heal the relationship. This has been a 8 year freindship that tried to end our 16 year marriage. I so wish I had found this site last July when I first felt their were sparks between them.

5/15/05 is my DDay. We had their family over for a movie as often we would. I walked upstairs to catch them in a passionate embrace her pants unzipped and guess where his hand was. Out of the blue... like a ton of bricks. Our daughter was only 3 feet away in the next room. They were in my dark kitchen. I can not even walk past the fridge with out images and the need to be sick.

I guess I am lucky I did not catch them in bed together.... just in the arms of passion... and no they have not engaged in the sex act just passion. I just when I think I am throught all the big hurt.. I learn more. It just seemed odd to me that I would catch them last July and then a goofy thing happened in November and now this too close contact. So when I asked H... my fear yes, he confirmed, it has been a year of "playing with fire" Him chasing her and backing away and her chasing him and backing away, right in front of me! No not sex....but hubby told me that was just a matter of time. Ouch!!

I am so lost I do not even know what I am feeling. We have started counseling trying to figure how we got here. Together we are seeing both a psychologist and a pastor>>> trying to figure how we got here and where we go next!

I was so very blind!! No all I can ask is how did we fail and how do we move on from here?? Very sad to have lost so very much

Svb,

Welcome to MB. Sorry you are going through this. T/b betrayed by your H and friend is very hard indeed. How you move forward is up to you and we can go over some suggestions. How your WS turns into an Xws then back to your H or even a better H is up to him.

Please consider doing the following:

1. Read a few books to help you understand what you and your WS are going through:
a. Surviving an Affair - Dr W. Harley
b. His Needs/Her Needs - Dr. Harley

2. Read the concepts section above and take the Emotional Needs Questionnaire. See if your WS will take it also. If not then take is twice. 1st as you then as him. Keep a copy of your responses.

3. Call Steve H @ MB for immediate phone counseling. He will help whoever is willing to speak with him get a recovry plan going. 1st recovery w/b for you and if your H wants to participate, then the marital recovery plan w/b for both of you.

4. Read, post & vent here as needed

5. Know that you can't teach a WS. If your H is in denial, he is a WS. This will affect how you move forward.

6. Create a personal support system for yourself. C/b friends, family, pets, anyone or anything that helps you feel good and safe. Do not resort to alcohol or harmful drugs to escape the pain.

7. Secure your finances. A's have a way of hitting all aspects of our lives. Often a WS losing the ability to reason including how they spend their $$. Note: WS' have already proved themselves untrust worthy and while they may claim NOT to hurt the family, they already have. $$ is an area where many BS' families get hurt. This is a precaution that may help if needed.

8. Identify your personal boundaries. Since the trust factor is gone, your personal boundaries will have requirements you never realized. You need to get to know yourself real well (hence the need to read thea above mentioned books). Also realize how you communicate with your WS or H is important.

9. Implement the boundaries which you know can not be altered. You maybe surprised which boundaries end up being the real important deal breakers.

10. Pray for a clear mind, calm heart and lots of patience.

11. Know that anxiety attacks can happen at any time. If you need, see your doctor.

12. Set the requirement for both of you to get tested for STDs. See whether she was a friend or not, you don't know who she has been with. Also if he has had s3x with her, when he does have relations with you, he is exposing you to each man she has had s3x with. Sick but true. Share that piece of reality with him.

13. It is ok to put doubt in his mind as to her loyalty to him. WS and OPs usually claim undying loyalty as they are looking for their next victim. Use that piece of info to your advantage. AS they each try to secure their loyalty to the A, it can backfire on them. Why? Because the A was built on deceit and mistrust.

Let us know how you are doing.

take care,
L.

Sorry to see you here too. I will keep you in my prayers.

I recommend reading the "Monogamy Myth" by Peggy Vaughan. It has been almost 9 months since finding out about my H's second affair and it has been the book I refer to still to this day. She also has a helpful website http://www.dearpeggy.com.

My H too as I think many a WS liked the chase. Not the end product, but the excitement of the hunt.

We are in recovery, but my pain at times flares up. My H is making great efforts to be honest with me and show that he will fight future temptation.

If I can be of any help, just ask.

Dear Orchid:

Thank you for the post... I guess I should feel comfort that I am indeed following many of the things you suggest. Even in walking down this unknown road I can get some things right.

We just read Dobson's Tough Love. For a week H slept in the basement. Some day's I feel I should have kicked him out. That would have only made it so we would not have had to face things. That week was very hard on our teenage children as they were not sure what was going on. Is mom leaving dad is dad leaving mom? I cannot put my wedding rings on to me they are a reminder of a broken promise, just like me damaged, beyond repair? I hope not>>>

Last July when they kissed they were both very drunk and it was vacation. We read together Emotional Infidelity another really good book but silly me kept saying well it was one kiss they were drunk it really was not infidelity... after all we are such good friends. But things changed and I could not really trust them. She and I called and we still did things as a family but she and I never discussed the kiss, things were no longer the same with us. She never talked about it with her hubby. They laid down new boundaries they were never to be alone together and would no longer drink together.

In November her H was out of town so we had her family over for dinner and I started to notice when we had them to our home she placed her spot next to his this did not bother me until they got into a laughing session at the table in front of the kids and me. Her kids did not catch it but I am sure just like I had my questions my teenagers also had questions. When I sit now at my spot at the table I remember that dinner I know our legs touch I see her sitting there her leg touching my husband's leg and them laughing. When I asked what was happening for the longest time he denied everything. I asked him several times what happened... it was not until 5/15 that he has even started to be honest now all he will say is it was inapropate. He should never have been chasing her.

I read Surviving An Affair (very helpful to know what I am feeling is normal) feel that is what I am trying to do now, survive. Some days all is fine and there is the promise of a better marriage in the future. Other days who am I kidding only me. I have started to read His Needs/Her Needs but I am having a hard time going there right now. I know there is not excuse for this behavior but it hurts even more when I read Dr. Harley discussing why we were at this point and that usually both spouses' emotional tanks are so low that they turn to other people to meet those needs. This makes me very sad... I thought we had a good marriage and I felt like we had been through bad really bad stuff and we were getting better. I had no idea that just around the corner sat the most challenging stuff of our marriage.

No they did not have sex.... so I guess the road could be so much worse. He never called her they really were only together when all of us were together. It was just not healthy chasing each other tempting each other. Now they OW and OWS that they really did not have the picture perfect marriage and they have been going through problems and that is why this happened.... OWS is taking blame for having pushed her into my H's arms. But boy does it hurt to have my H say it was only a matter of time. I felt the heat and I am glad you caught us. He has not called her I have not called her. We have both been in touch with OWH. But we have let that go.... as I think it has to... I do not think we can remain friends... too much betrayal. But funny how both men in this want it to be OK... I have no idea what she wants as we have not talked. Her H says she is so sorry and wants to tell me that but is not sure how I will react... They are also going to a pastor for counseling but would not seek a psychologist as that cost $150 for 45 min>>> too much and not worth it (his words)

Your letter was very good with many helpful points.... It's a good way for me to measure where I am and where I need to go!

It is so very hard I do have friends that I talk to and the counselor has been helpful and we have made good break troughs with the pastor. It was so not easy telling them where we are. Now we are trying to deal with how we got here.... stupid me thought all was good in our marriage. I have been very selective who I talk to and what I say... I really do not want to make him out to be the bad guy... I do so much love him and I bring him more pain. Part of me wanted to tell the whole town just what we are going through. But I really do not want everyone to see how we have failed. I have talked with his sister... we are very close and it was not with Malice and she knows that and has been very helpful. I cannot tell any other family members... it is just too hard to say. Hey guess where we are... instead we try to pretend that all is fine. No one notices the missing rings. My mom is visiting from Texas right now and I so want to say mom I have something to tell you. But I do not what her thinking bad things... he is the perfect son in law.

Counselor called me on this... said you do not want to make things uncomfortable for H and that is not a good place to be. "You have every right to make things uncomfortable for him... he was an A- -. Until we start to deal with your feelings you are not going to heal quit trying to protect him."

My secret... so I suffer in silence. I came and I have enjoyed reading the advice and comments... others who know my heart. I was the first in my family to go to college and that we celebrated... but now to say he guess what I am the first in my family whose H had an affair, yeah he liked my best friend too.... My parents know what good friends we are and even asked about them.... now we lie... oh they are fine they are out of town for the holiday.... (we have no idea) have not talked to them for weeks. OH gee mom meant to tell you... He got intimate with her right here in this room.... see that fridge over there... boy do I wish it could talk to tell me who kissed how this started cause H can't remember even lied about it the first night.... but I knew.... even though he was drunk he went first to wash his hands. Had I not come upstairs then they would have been caught by Tina (my daughter) or maybe by her four-year-old son Grant who can't sit still... but no I caught them.... Had no one caught them and they had more time... perhaps it would have been our bed where they were found had they only had more time.... So yeah mom the friendship is doing great!!

OK I have rambled like a crazy woman... thanks for letting me vent and thanks for the suggestions.... It is comforting to be here.... with others that have been on this road... Thanks for listening>>>

Thanks Holiday:

I so covet your prayers... I think we can make it through this. H is very remorseful and sees the pain.. and yes, just like has been written all is fine one day and then... boom I am knocked out flat again.... where did that one come from? When I find myself crying myself to sleep in his arms I say this can't be right... you are the one to cause such pain... how can I turn to you to try and comfort me....

Thanks for the reading suggestions... Yes, I have done much reading>>> much! But it does help to know I am not the first person to ever be here. I will check out what you have suggested. Yes, I am sure you are correct the chase was exciting.... what would he have done once he caught her I do not know.... but that she was even allowing him to chase her... makes me sick... no thought to the five kids and two other spouses. the 30 plus years of marriage between us>> or our friendship... she was after my husband.

Thank you for your honesty... Many days I feel as if this is all about me and if I can simply forgive we will feel better faster.... but the counselor has said no.. it is about brokenness, mistrust betrayal and sin... not about my not being about to forgive. It will take a while... he said well over a year...

He helped me and maybe this will help some one else. I am a pretty strong person and I do not like to admit that I need other people. What he told me is .... "You have been wounded so very badly. You have suffered the greatest of all emotional and physical wounds you have been betrayed by your best friend and by your husband, lay there do not even try to get up... let the wounds heal! Allow yourself the time it will get better but do not expect his to happen over night." He has offered such great insight.... yet, I always want to take the blame...

You are where we hope to be.... First the psychologist, as my H has no idea how he got here.... or what to do so that it will not happen again. The morally wrong switch was switched off in his brain and because she was chasing him also it was OK... and nothing else mattered... We are also looking at Alcohol and the pastor has said straight up he is an alcoholic (Hubby did not like hearing that but has not had a drink since) Said you should be able to remember what happened and since you can not ... you drank too much. We had an issue early on in our marriage where he had too much to drink and so had my single sister and he had been joking about a threesome I had no idea it was not a joke... after I went to bed one thing lead to another and my sister gave my husband oral sex. This has always been a pain in my heart... he was honest and told me the next morning. For ten years this had not been an issue my sister knows I know but she was not interested in my husband and we moved on. He has never given that a second thought. I think Hubby is thinking that we will move on this time and once again be all good friends. OWH hopes so... our children do not know what is going on but they want to do things again with them... Thank goodness is summer and we have lots of vacations and plans we can simply be just too busy.

These things have all been very painful to deal with. It is comforting to know that these is hope!! You are where I hope to be... I see the promise of an ever better relationship... I see him trying to make things right... but some days I ask myself ... is it worth going through all of this pain? I guess if we split up there would still be pain... but a different pain and maybe a more hurtful pain... at least now there is hope!

Thanks so much for the prayers!

Soveryblind,

I know your pain all too well. My H A was with someone I knew and liked and trusted. We were not friends, but she worked for him (still does) and often when I went to work functions I usually buddied up with her.

Anyway, your comment about Dr. Harley's book His Needs/Her Needs, prompted me to respond. I too did not like that book as I felt we had a great marriage before. We both learned in MC that my H has an "emotional need" for admiration that is unrealistic. So I just never really felt that book applied to me.

Holiday is a good friend of mine from another chat room. We've been talking since Oct of last year. We do not agree on the Monogamy Myth. I thought it was garbage, full of excuses of why people cheat, instead of calling it what it is...weak, immoral and irresponsible behavior. As a Christian woman, I felt she was irresponsible in not pointing out more biblical principles about monogamy. I didn't like it and don't recommend it.

Anyway, I write to let you know that I read a couple of really good books. The one that I like was After the Affair by Janis Abrahms Spring. This one talks more about external factors in a persons life that may cause an A. I saw that with my H. New promotion, new baby, sick baby, fight with Mom and turning 30. There was a lot going on in his life, all of which had nothing to do with me except I birthed the sick baby (he's fine now). Anyway, after reading a couple of chapters of Dr. Harvey's book, which sent me into a spiral downhill, I had my pastor say something great. He said "you can look to all kinds of books, or you can go to the good book...the bible." As always, I found great comfort in that book. I've since moved passed "relationship" books and am reading Christian books in general. I love Beth Moore. She is awesome!

I say all this to say, every A is different and every way to handle it is different. My girlfriend who is getting married visited me yesterday and said "I notice most of my friends have problems in their marriage after 2 kids. Maybe I'll have one." and I said "There is no magic formula or we'd all do it." She agreed. Every situation is different. If you find that Dr. Harvey's book doesn't seem to apply to your situation, then it probably doesn't. It did not fit for mine.

Anyway, did you mention that you were reading Boundries in Marriage by Dr. Cloud? That might be great for you as the contributing factor to your H's A seems to be a boundries issue. Anyway, best of luck and don't forget the most important book of all...the Bible!
Blessings.
2

2 >>>

Thanks for taking care of my heart>>>> It comforts me to know someone can identify with my feeling... some moments I am not even sure I can identify with my own feelings. I did try to read HNHN. I got so much help from Surviving the A and while I can agree that love Tank and language are very important... I think in this case he was just stupid and like you and our MC and pastor have told him in front of me... nothing I could have done excuses this... if your love tank is empty say something... do not break your vows.

Like you I have downward spirals when I read such things. I have talked about this with the MC and have been told... DO NOT OWN this. It is when I try to own it that I fall on my face. He still chose her over us.

I appreciated your comments and insight! I thought how could I agree so much with one book and not the other?

We are working with our MC for down the road a recommit ceremony. Some days it seems way way down the road. These first days have been so painful it has been like time has stood still... like we will never get to the recommit....

Good to hear baby is fine now... I like the recommendation of After the Affair by Janis Abrahms Spring. External factors... yes, can agree there, we have spent last year dealing with the death of his father and a very controlling MIL and then we lost my nephew (my sister's baby, Yes, I only have one sister) We are not meant to know why he died but we had to say good-bye to him at 15 months... Next month he would be turning two... so life has not been easy for us.

I can also appreciate your comment about "emotional need" for admiration that is unrealistic. Wow... that is one factor we have talked about ... only more in dealing with the expectations of others and placing my needs last. Not even thinking about what my wife needs and placing me in the situation of having to always tell him what I need because he is so out of touch with his own feelings and has no idea of how to be in touch with my feelings. Being so driven that he cannot simply be happy with himself. We both read together Captivating by the Eldriges it was pretty neat that he wanted to understand better a woman's heart so he eagerly devoured the book.

I have to fight with all my strength from calling OW and OWS they used to be called by the names of our best friends, change in name wow that loss hurts. We were in the same building yesterday, first time since Dday. I did not see them... they did not see us... or son saw them... but the excuse was we have to go now... we have some where else to be.

I did not mention the book Boundaries in Marriage by Dr. Cloud rather said we are working with the pastor and MC what boundaries we must have in place... maybe should have had in place... closing the barn door after all the horses are gone>> But I will check into that book sounds helpful.

Weekly appointments with Pastor and MC are just our reminder that we are not fine...

Yes, the Bible has been one of my most comforting books to read. While I used to claim Jeremiah 29:11... I have changed my verse... Psalms 34:18 He promises to draw near and comfort the broken hearted. I have also found great comfort in the song by Natalie Grant... "HELD” when I am completely empty and ready to give up it seems that HELD comes on the radio to give me the extra shot in the arm that I need.!!

Thanks for reaching out!!

SVB

SVB -

Welcome to marriagebuilders. Glad you have found us. I urge you to put your wedding rings back on today. They are a symbol of the convenant between you, your husband, and the Lord.

Also the MB plan is to never have contact of any kind again with her. And to do that, you will probably not be able to have contact with her husband. Sad how this friendship had to end, but when boundaries are crossed, that is what is necessary.

Believer>>

Crying... now>... I wish I could put them back on. I have happy visions of H giving them back to me with a new promise. Perhaps that's a silly childish dreams.... but we are not there yet. I wish we were. Our marriage verse was "A cord of three... is not quickly torn apart." It was the theme for our wedding. Braids everywhere... those braids represented God, H and Me so yes, I am very aware of the symbol and the covenant I also know it is that first cord that is binding us through this painful time.

Yes, I know the MB plan... no contact and I will not contact. It breaks my heart... We are Grant's "god parents" been there since the day of his conception and saw him born... their daughter has been a part of our family since she took her first steps. My pain is so very magnified and so very deep. They crossed the boundaries and now we are all broken. They did not care enough about either marriage or any of our children. OWS and I were in the dark... now it is like someone turned the light on and it NOW makes sense... I want to go back to the dark>>> I want to turn back the clock.

Deep hurt>>>

Soveryblind -

Sorry you are hurting so much right now. If you are a believer, when you got married, you made a covenant with the Lord. Apart from what your husband has done, in my opinion, it is necessary to keep your part of the promise.

My husband has been living with the OW for 3 years. I still wear my rings. I will until we divorce.

If you have a dream of your husband giving them back to you, why not renew your vows later?

SVB,

It is sad. I saw this happen to 2 good friends of mine from church. An EA began and the families had to be torn apart. Everyone suffers...even the kids who had been best friends.

Your faith is strong and it will get you through. Sounds like you and your H are getting to the root of the problem with your H and what would have him act so wrecklessly. I too was advised not to own this in any way. He threw the vow he made with me and God to the wind. That had nothing to do with me.

Stay strong. You will get through this if you both want to.
Blessings.
2

Thanks 2

Yes, we want it to work out... but that sure does not make it easy. We have only begun with the MC....(still in the diagonisis phase) we both felt better with the pastor than the MC.

Yes, we meet at church... since this we have changed churches we could not chance seeing them.... but guess what they have come to our new church... we have talked this over with the new pastor... they are wonderful and so very helpful.... It is OK... there are four services... the deal is OW and OWH are to attend in the evening chuch we are to attend in the mroning... but yesterday they were at church in the morning my son saw them... He was so excited he wanted to run up and say what are you doing here but he had to be a soccer camp in less than an hour so we said... we'll give a call later in the week and check on things (a lie to cover and get him out the door)

Hubby is being great and trying real hard... I find myself waiting for the "other shoe to drop" We can't fix it if we do not know what caused it... Why do we keep coming back here?

Thank you all so much for letting me rant... and for listening>>> wow it helps a lot!

SVB

SVB,
I can only say that your letter has opened my eyes again as to what my husband must be thinking and feeling as I am the WW who had the A with Best Friend. Like yours - Our families have been Best Friends for the last 8 years - starting with our 15 year boys who became friends in first grade. Unfortunately, our story is almost exactly the same, the chase was on, we wouldnt see other for a while, then I would chase him, etc...Flirt all the time even with husband/wife in same area. Whenever we would play games, or watch movies, I always found my spot near him...and vice versa. Oh what a Terrible mess WE have made with our families. We have always spent the 4th of July with them and it was hard yesterday remembering last year ...and where we are this year. At the same time, it was the 4th last year when the 'fireworks' really started sparking...and it only spiraled from there! The PA was only one time in December. but the EA was from July through Dec...How I wish I could turn back the clock and choose a different path. I cannot, so I must make amends to fix my problems now. I have owned up to my part in this A and my husband and I are working on our relationship. The OM and family have completely chosen to make everything MY fault...(She kicked him out in Nov and he came to live with us because we were all best friends...that is the only reason that things came to a head.) He won't take any responsibility in this A. They have chosen to tell their children EVERYTHING!!!! And my husband and I have said this was between him and I and have chosen not to tell our children. We are still together and working on our relationship as I stated earlier.

In any case, I sympathize with you and wish I could change things also. I will say a prayer for you.

Wow Beth>> so much hurt… I think God brought you to me… If you only knew how our stories parallel. Part of me started to cry as I read what you wrote and the other part of me went into straight fear… You even write like my Former Best Friend, I think that is a kinder title than OW... The thought of her reading my thoughts and seeing what I have written scared me. You know it is really you (OW) I cannot stop thinking about. WE (I) hold no blame for her alone, they are both adults. OK One side of me does… she chased back. I would never have done that to her… our friendship was too important she meant too much to me…She never told me that she and H were having problems and boy my hubby looks really good. Her H has told me over and over again… we can be friends this will never happen again. He takes the blame for pushing her to my husband, his best friend. Part of me sees her as my husband's pawn who he used, the other part of me is so very mad at her for taunting him when he was such an emotional wreck, which she knew.

You described us to a T, everything flirting right in front of the spouses. You even hit a nerve with July 4th and fireworks last year. I am not sure but in thinking back that could be when our sparks first flew. Her H was our of town and we took all the kids and went to fire works. We had always done this… they took me in when my hubby was out of town and we took her in… not to live… not just family activities, dinner and the transportation of kids like neighbors when you can't be in two places at once and you have to car pool. To people on the outside it really could have looked like an open marriage… we even joked that others just would not understand. Now it looks so unhealthy but I really had no reason not to trust. I now know I should not have trusted.

I see it now, how I wish I saw it before it was too late… her choosing to sit by my husband always, usually an innocent reason. If I HAD called her on it would we be here now? It broke my heart to learn that while I did know of three different times where boundaries were crossed I had not idea of this chase. Even my H is not sure when or why the chase began (that is why the MC) but had she said no, there would have been no chase. He was drunk on Dday he cannot tell me who kissed first, I get no pieces to the puzzle. I am sure he is the one who undid her pants. I am very sad, had I not come upstairs this would have led to sex in my bed, and there was nothing compelling them to stop, not our friendship, not our marriage, and not our children… WHY???

NO Beth I would not put all the blame back on you. I feel very bad for you that they have done that. The OM should be ashamed for that. That must hurt with your withdrawal and the feelings you have for him. But on the other hand you cannot blame him now for fighting to save his marriage, isn't that always the case when we are about to loose something we realize that it really is what we want.

I find myself grieving for our lost friendship. I fight the urge to pick up the phone, drive by their house, hope yet also dread that the phone might be her. We were in the same building… I so wanted to see them together and happy... I so wanted her to see us together and happy… I look great… dropped 20 lbs (I threw up every day the first week could not eat a thing) had on a new outfit, new hair cut and even added color (a first for me). H tells me it is over and I believe him that it is. He said… for him getting caught was the cure. Like he was crying out for my attention saying, hey I don't trust me, why do you, will you still love me if I cross the line. Since the death of his dad there have been many battles, we did not need this one on top of all the others, but depression is one thing he has been battling, so in a way this is a good thing... it has forced us to look at where he is emotionally and where he has been hiding the past year. Part of me says she knew he was weak and moved I for the kill… I do not know I have not talked to her… but I know they are working just as hard on their marriage. Yes, there is the part of me that is very mad… I want to say since she knew he was drunk she came on to him and teased and kissed and undid her pants, how could he fight the fire… but I know better… they both fell! They both only cared about the passion. Whishing does not make it untrue.

To top things off just one month after Dday, they found themselves right where our nightmare began, right where my H started losing it, with the lost of his father. In the same way with no warning, just gone car carsh. I know that for us this was the beginning of our long road that has lead to where we are right now… and I cannot even imagine the pain. But my H was asked to sing at the funeral. Yes, NC means NC. That was the hardest decision to make. They were our best friends when we lost my FIL, so supportive, so strong, and to honor NC we had to choose not to go. That was the most difficult decision to make. It was clear to the pastor and the MC but to us it was not clear. I know it has a reason but yet, it also seems like no one wants this friendship to be better. We decided not to go not for OWH but for OW, not to put her through the difficulty of seeing my H. I know how we (women) are wired. I know she is thinking about him and probably pretty mad that she has to go this alone, and perhaps feeling like you that we together have completely blamed her. We have not talked to them, and worked very hard to keep it from our children, who know something is up.

I thank you for your prayers…you will be in mine… I also thank you for insight into your mind… that was very helpful for me… If it helps… I have a feeling your H does not have the same deep emotions that I have… I know I was mad at OWH as he did not get it.. OK lets forgive and forget…we have been too good of friends to let this happen… I love you man… touch my wife again and you're a dead man… but this time was your one get out of jail free card. I could not help but feel… wow… if that were me and H said that… I think I would have to leave. Another man touched me and compromised our marriage and you are giving him the get out of jail free card. Yes, I do think about her, my friend and what I would say to her had she not been the OW would I would say had it been any other woman and she came to me and said… I think it's too hot in the kitchen… That sisterhood that binds us that is different than what we have with our spouse… womanhood. How would I react if this were still my Best Friend but if it was not my H. How would I support her then…??

Thanks Beth!

SVB

Wow, there is just too much of this going on lately. I am finding myself wanting to repeat what I've read in your posts...you have no idea how our stories parallel!
Our friendship with the "other" family wasn't long-term, but it certainly was hard-fought. We were joined by common life experiences, common faith, common interests, and the fact that we're both military families. Husbands were deployed to Iraq together and that was the glue that cemented our bond. When OWH went overseas for an unaccompanied tour, things went horribly wrong. I don't know what it was other than genuine care for a friend that just got prideful and lost its convictions, but my H started "pursuing" her to keep her from feeling neglected and the two of them ended up seeing each other behind my back. The EA became a PA after not too long. Her husband was seeing things I refused to and he tried desperately to get them them to stop it, but they were able to look both him and me in the face and lie about what was going on. I was so blind I was actually defending them and the "questionable" things people at church were bringing to our attention. I saw so much that I wasn't willing to acknowledge, so when H finally admitted that they'd had an A, my entire world crashed down and left me feeling completely worthless. So much betrayal in so many ways...it would have been SO much easier had it been a total stranger!
Of course there's more to add, but I'm short on time right now, so I just wanted to let each of you know that unfortunately, you're not alone.

Ok, having a major "duh" day today, forgot to mention one HUGE detail. I AM rebuilding my friendship with the "FOW". It's a much different friendship now than it ever was--this time, it's the real deal, except my husband isn't involved. I wouldn't ever expect the same of her husband, though. They're divorcing as a result of this and he absolutely detests even the thought of my husband right now. Yeah, I've gone totally out of my mind. It's against every bit of common sense out there. But it's what's keeping me from my own bitterness. I just know that THIS time, God is right in the middle of this friendship.

Wow CKW you are amazing!!

I find this so for a number of reasons... your D-day was just a month before my D-day. Your are just ahead of me on this roller coaster ride. I found comfort in your signature Recovery going great except for my lagging heart. Boy do I know about the lagging heart...

I find myself saying all would be fine again if I just let it go... we all could be friends again. But all the advice around me says no you can never go there again. She has not even called and I know I should not be the first to call. Her H said she wants to but just does not know how. He put it as one of his conditions that she would call me. He feels that her refusal to call means she is not over my H and that she is not sorry. I know her better she just does not say sorry. Never did for any disagreement we had. You are friends wow…. H must also have had a change of heart?

Even though they never were alone together and he never called her or wrote her... their only contact was really right in front of us. I cannot risk another time... can't risk her chasing him and him giving in again... he says no possibility... says God took all desire away from him by getting caught. I so want to believe him but do not really have the desire to put him back in the fire... he also has sworn to never drink again.

I would say you have no lagging heart!! If I had the hope of being where you are in a month I would rejoice.

For me I think the pain comes because H has no idea how we got here and how he could disregard my feelings so much. I do not think he even really wanted to call this an A since he had no sex... but both the pastor and the MC set us both straight... he has a Wondering heart and He needs to understand his feelings. This is the only way we can be certain to never be here again and until he understands those feelings we are certain to wind up here again. So yes, the big bill for the psychologist (MC) and a calendar filled with weekly appointments for him, for me, for us, every week. Pastor is wonderful and I feel has given us the best advice but he was not comfortable dealing with the all the other issues. I am very surprised both the pastor and MC have said to me… do not own any part of this… you did not drive him to someone else, you are not a bad wife… even though you know I asked all of those questions… if only I was more…


Thank you for writing… would love to hear from you!! You give me hope!!

SVB

SVB, this isn't something you SHOULD just "let go" of. Like I told my friend, we can't live like it never happened and we certainly can't live the same way we did when it was going on. Things are radically different for us now. Both of us have actually been able to laugh about the fact that some of the conversations we have now are so totally WEIRD given the circumstances. It's not all warm fuzzies, but she's my friend and my sister in Christ and I love her. Maybe I have too much of my Godly great-grandmother in me, I just can't turn off love because somebody's been a jerk. I had to redefine it, though.
Yes, my H has had a GIGANTIC change of heart. He told me on D-Day that he had gotten to the point a week or so before that where he just couldn't live with himself anymore and he was tired of the lies, the deception, the justification, the hiding, all of it, most especially the SIN. I don't think either of them looks back on any of it "positively" anymore. I'm sure my friend believes it affected her life far more than it affected my H's life since her husband is choosing divorce while I'm...well, I'm not choosing divorce. I chose to let my H decide where he wanted to live out his days, and he chose to stay. But it really did ruin everything he and I had together. We are having to start anew with everything, and the trust and overwhelming pain are keeping things raw. Sometimes I really do believe divorce would be MUCH easier.
I wish I could say my heart isn't "lagging" but it would be a lie. I'm having a VERY hard time with all of this, but none of it really has anything to do with my re-building my friendship with my friend. It has to do with what this A did to me as a person. I'm just a shell of who I was before, and the regrowth process isn't anything but painful.
However, I'm very thankful that we didn't have to go through the whole PlanA/PlanB garbage. I don't think I could do it. There's not enough of me left to fight for a man who wouldn't fight for me.

I would imagine that facing you would be one of the hardest things (next to facing her own husband) that your friend will ever have to do. That phone call may literally be too much for her to handle. Would you consider a letter? Have you emailed her? I don't think it's wise (at least not now.....who knows what the Lord can do with time and the right hearts?) for ALL of your relationships to be restored, but healing is helpful on any level. You will all be in my prayers. We may not know one another, but there's company here for your misery! LOL <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

SVB,
I feel like I should be able to call you up on the phone and talk to you. Your letter just hits me so hard because I understand so very much of what you are saying except from the other side....It is almost like "hearing" my Former Best Friend talk about what her husband and I did. The only difference is that she kicked him out in November and told him she was filing for divorce..and it had nothing to do with us because we weren't even an US at that time. They had been having problems for almost 2 years...and were just barely getting along. He had been sleeping on the couch for the last year before she kicked him out. She expected A LOT from him and he tried but she just didn't want to budge herself to do any more...in any case, thats all past now...The hurtful part is that our boys are no longer friends. The OM told many lies to her about me and 'us" and he also told those same lies to their children. We have decided not to tell ours but our kids are not stupid either...they know that something happened to make the OM leave our house - or rather than we asked him to leave...and now our entire families are no longer friends. The hardest part too is our 5 year old who grew up with them and called them aunt/uncle and whose birthday is also the same as the OMs wants to know we can't visit Aunt ** and Uncle ** anymore. They were having many many financial troubles and were evicted from their home and didn't they find an apartment right down the road from my house - the road that we usually go to to walk because of it being rural...so now wwe don't have our walking spot anymore either...and when we did walk there, the 5 yr old knew they lived there...and still wants to know why we can't go there. Sometimes it is so hard to sit and type all this out because you have so much to say and you want to talk to someone and really say it allll..... I wish you the best and hope that we'll keep writing.

Thanks.

I know how hard it is to bear this alone, but I need to say this to you. You do not need to tell anyone in your life about this. The only reason, IMVHO, to ever tell about an A is when you are exposing an A b/c the WS will not stop seeing/contacting the OW.

You have this forum. It is a tremendous source of support.

You are going to get through this. Believe me, there are many success stories here. What you absolutely do NOT need, after you Recover, is for your family members/friends to be gossipping about your M/giving your H the evil eye/ you name it. You are going to forgive your H a lot sooner than your mother will. Trust me on this.

I told no one. My only support system is MB. And, you know what? That is fine. I didn't think so a year ago, when I felt as though my heart had been cut out without anesthesia, but boy, am I glad now that I did it this way.

You are in myprayers. Post often. Read the threads. Read the books. Do the EN questionnaires together. Good luck.