A new BS who I pointed at you wonderful people. Hit sit seems SO saveable its untrue, but he needs our help.

Please contribute if you can !

Hello mate ! Welcome to the best club in the world that nobody wants to be a member of <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

As I already said you're doing GREAT so far ! There is GREAT HOPE for your marriage HONESTLY !

I think what you need to do first is study and execute 'marriagebuilders Plan A'.

To quote the wise and excellent Pepperband


There is a lot of help for a new betrayed Spouse ( BS)in the New BS Toolkit .

It pulls together a lot of stuff that many people contributed.

Pour a long drink and study.

I took the liberty of opening your post up to the wider board, I hope you don't mind !

You'll get more specific help there as most folks here are in the US of A.

I know from our exchanges that you have the grit and love to get your baby back, Ibiza.

These boards are FILLED with exemplary tales of heroism and love where broken hearted BS get their babys back.

You can do it !

All blessings !

^bump ^

Hi Bob,

Thanks for redistributing my message; I need access to as much wisdom & experience as possible.

As regards two stick & carrot aspects of plan A, I have these concerns...

I've read Dr Harley's thoughts on plan A & he advises caution on allowing the WS to 'pick & mix' the 2 men in her life. If I continue to meet her emotional needs, am I not playing along with this? He seems to hint that my situation could call for an early move to plan B. If the affair is (hopefully) doomed, won't I be helping this by making her rely more on the OM and discovering his shortcomings sooner?

On exposure, our children know, but her family, our nieghbours and most of our friends don't. Many will in time, but broadcasting her actions to the whole world might be perceived as vindictive by her and counter-productive.

My thoughts are much clearer now and I'm glad to say I'm gathering my strength for the battle ahead. I just don't want to make any mistakes.

It's good to know I'm not alone.

You are NOT alone my friend. And you already have a stalwart ally in bOb. Read his thread, it gave me a lot of hope in a seemingly hopeless situation. To quote what a wise man said to me here your pain is unique but your situation is sadly common. I am also a BS and you can read my thread here if you like. It's quite long but the wisdom of bOb and K and others shines through. I am no expert on our mutually horrible fix but there are many here who are.

All I can tell you is that I went from feeling like I was going to blow my brains out a month or so ago to feeling real hope for the future of my marriage. I have had some personal discoveries as well since d-day, many of them as a result of what I learned on this website. All I can tell you right now is to hang on one day at a time and INHALE everything this place has to offer, not just the forums. bOb is da man and I am just a humble disciple but I'm gonna stick with you too. Sounds like you can use some MB magic right now.

It depends on what sort of a spouse you were pre-A. Sometimes (perhaps NOT in your case, and perhaps yes) the BS has a lot of ground to make up for as far as their contribution to the state of the marriage.

For instance: If you were neglectful, or rude, or not affectionate for a good long while before the A ... you need to demonstrate consistency and willingness to make the necessary changes ....

If you were a stand-up guy pre-A ... then the Plan A might be shortened a bit and Plan B sooner ... so it really matters how honest you are with yourself at giving yourself a pre-A marriage report card.

This is an unrealistic expectation ... all of us made mistakes, and you will too.

Plan ahead ... and the mistakes are fewer.

NOT exposing right away is a HUGE mistake... just so you know.

was I a stand up sort of guy? My WS would say I was too supportive, loving and affectionate. I was and still am deeply in love with her. For me this has grown stronger everday for 35 years; it's stronger still today. My WS felt smothered by this at times. I was/am the classic guy who loves too much.

So its not a question of being nicer to her. One decision I've taken though, is to be stronger & more independent. I'm also taking more control, taking time to think things through before making my next move.

Boundaries, Ibiza. You need to set inviolable boundaries for your protection.

Study will help you identify these.

I bet you didn;t expect homework from me when your Son introduced us ! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

You'll do fine.

All blessings !

Hi and welcome to MB,

There is a lot of pain many of bring when we come here but the support and tools we are introduced to help many of us survive the hurtful A.

It is good you have Bob to provide support for you. As for your plan, plan A is one which allows the BS to learn how to improve themselves so that when the WS decides to return as a spouse, the BS' recovery is done and then assistance c/b provided to the Xws.

A common mistake is to try and 'teach' a WS state of mind. That's impossible. The WS is not prone to learning. In fact the WS' mind is trained to twist all good actions of a BS and family. Also WS' like to use and manipulate all to enable the A.

Herein lies the key on when to switch to plan B. Plan B btw is implemented in behalf of the BS and family in order for the BS and family to preserve the love they have for their spouse/parent. With personal recovery for the BS completed, the BS can implement a reduce contact plan (plan B w/children and in many cases via a 3rd party) causing the WS' ENs NOT t/b met thus NOT enabling the A.

What this will do is mess with the WS' plans which normally the WS plans include getting the BS and family to enable the A. Often this could bring on false charges and angry outbursts along with manipulative tactics on the part of the WS. The BS must know their own personal boundaries and implement them while pulling in their personal support group as needed.

Another thing t/d is secure your finances and reassure your children of your love and commitment to them. Ask for their help and reassure them of yours. Form a bond that will withstand the attacks of a WS. Yes, even a parent/spouse will turn on their family to keep the A going. This has happend. Be prepared that it may happen to varying degress in your situation.

Please read Love must be Tough by Dr. James Dobson and another book called Boundaries.

take care,
L.

Nope, second page will never do. Bump.

C'mon people, this is bOb pure* asking for OUR help!

1. My WS would say I was too supportive, loving and affectionate.

Give an example of things you did (your actions or words or whatever) that were "too supportive" and "too loving" and "too affectionate" and made your wife want to escape your company.


2. My WS felt smothered by this at times. I was/am the classic guy who loves too much.

This is going to need study.

What does "love too much" look like ?

hmmmmmmmmm I am wondering why any mentally balanced healthy woman would walk away from a really loving man.

What does she gain by escaping your marriage?

CD
You embarrass me.
I'm just a bloke who did the best he could.

That's fact not modesty.


Do the right thing and be embarassed in a year like me <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Thanks for your help & support so far all my new friends out there.

My thoughts are much clearer now & I'm building up my strength for the biggest fight of my life.

I've stopped beating myself up about the shortcomings of our marriage. I think my main 'fault'was being too eager to please, but I was a very long way from being a slave. Of course it wasn't perfect, but it was a strong loving bond. We provided mutual support and safety; the sex got better & better; we made each other laugh; we were best friends; we supported each other's careers; we brought up 2 wonderful sons who are adults now and are also our best friends.

My WS is nearly 52 but looks a very beautiful 35; she's highly intelligent & creative & has built up a successful business with my support. She has always been strong, gentle & caring.

I think you can see why I can't just walk away!

The woman I meet now looks like her, but her body is occupied by a stranger. Our eldest son said 'it feels like I've lost my mum & I'm talking to a stranger'. Our younger son said she was behaving like an out of control, lovesick teenager.

Our family live in England. A year ago we moved to the mediterranean island of Ibiza. It isn't entirely in 'the real world' The sun is always shining, the scenery & buildings are beautiful. There are exotic people, musicians, artists and other bohemians. I settled in straight away, keeping my feet firmly on the ground. It took my BS a lot longer but we eventually found new friends & she threw her self headlong into a new hedonistic lifestyle. She then told me she was deeply in love with a guy she had been sleeping with for 2 weeks while I was away back in England helping the kids and the business.

The off the rails teenager looks about right doesn't it?

Right now I told her that I did not want contact from thursday until monday (tomorrow). Seeing her is painful & I don't think that it's good to rely on me for all the missing ENs. I'm setting bounderies for my protection and to help her focus on the ENs which are not being provided by the OM.

Despite my request she has sent me 2 texts & phoned me once, all for trivial things.

I'm still keeping the door open though I need to be approachable to talk about us when she's ready; I need to give her a peek at the missing ENs.

She's going back to England in 3 days to see our sons & DIL. They still can't believe what's happened...we were such a beacon to them. It's going to be emotional, even angry. My WS is not looking forward to it. I'll see how she feels about things when she's back in a weeks time.

I am now making contact with her family. I don't expect them to side with me but I know they will find it hard to believe what's happend. I also intend to see the OM while she's away, not to fight or argue but to give him a chance to look me in the eye, after all he was my friend. He doesn't have a BS or family so he is the only one on his side I can approach.

How am I doing so far? I know I'll have a far bigger job to do if she comes back but first things first.

I hope all you guys are well on the way to finding your own peace...you deserve it for the help you're giving me.

Ibiza, think about and answer pep's questions mate.

You will have to get used to a very unEnglish emotional articulacy if you're going to make the best of this place !

The affair is 100% your wifes but the marriage it grew from was 50% yours.

Taking responsibility for changes YOU need to make is not rewarding her affair, but required to rebuild your M and your self esteem.

but her affair is her 100% responsibility and choice.

The OM ( other man) Doesn;t seem exactly committed to a lifetime with your WW does he? She comes home after they've banged ? Hardly groundwork for a soul pairing is it ? LOL !

IS this man going with your W to England ?

Make sure all your family know about her affair BTW. Tell them that you love her very much and am trying very hard to rebuild your marriage.

Exposure is hard, but necesary.

It will NOT push her away from you but will force her to look at what she's doing in the critical sight of others.

Now many people in England think " follow your heart" or similar [censored], but in truth affars are usually temporary addictions.

My own Squid was besotted with her OM but I got her back <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

You're doing pretty good mate. I was totally dysfunctional for two weeks at least after d-day.

Read up on exposure, I'll ask WAT and MelodyLane ( Exposure wizards) to check in on ya.

Study mate. You need to read 'Surviving an affair' by Willard Harley and Judith Chalmers. You can have my copy if you want, but I don;t know how much the postage will be to Ibiza.

Study.

Knowledge of the dynamics of affairs AND the precedents on this site are GREAT weapons to you now.

I'm hungover this morning, but I'll check in later. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Bit of a party on the patio with my baby and some friends last night <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I don;t get drunk since my little 'car' incident last year, this was my first since ! yuk !

All blessings
BTW you said OM was younger than your W. Squids OM was 15 years older and an unemployed serial womaniser. Heres a section from a great article by Frank Pittman as to why affairees can choose terrible affair partners.

Thanks for that Bob...the quote hits things on the head.

I've picked up an enormous amount of knowledge and leads to more knowledge, so far. This will help me understand my situation & knowledge is power!

No, the OM isn't going over to England with my W; I think the boys might kill him!

I hope I'm not coming over as a stiff upper lip englishman; this Brit tends to wear his heart on his sleave.

Enjoy your afternoon; I'm starting to socialise again. I need to take myself out of the A so's not to let it take over all of my life.

As for the book, Tim is trying to get out here soon & I'm definitely going back soon to see the boys & Kaye. Maybe we can cover the cost of getting it to Lancaster. I'll talk to tim about this.

Hi Pep,

I'm still beating myself up aren't I?

I'm a supportive,loving, affectionate kind of guy...nothing wrong with that. You can't really love too much either can you?

My WS was also very supportive and loving too. She's a different person who was less outgoing than me on the affection front. I didn't want her to change though. I loved her how she was & still do. When she showed affection it made it more precious to me.

I know if we get the chance to rebuild our marriage, I must be prepared to be confronted with my weaknesses. Some I know, some will come as a shock. Whatever, I'll have to face up to them & it won't be easy.

What's my WS got gain by abandoning our marriage? NOTHING! she's got everything to lose though. So have I; so have the family.

Ib, you still there? Got a couple of thoughts for you if you are. Hang in there bro.

Hi CD, I'm still here. I've seen my WS today and she's made some requests. I've now got some more thinking so I can work out my options.

When it's a bit clearer in my head, I'll be posting some more questions.

Still hanging in over here in sunny spain. It's difficult when the whole of europe seems to be over here having a good time when I'm not!

Decisions, decisions, decisions!

My WS came round today to see if I was OK. She wants to make sure I’m looking after myself & not going to do anything stupid. This really annoys me because she knows there’s only way she can stop my agony. I don’t want her concern.

She’s been coming to the house every afternoon and I find it painful to spend too much time with her while she’s hurting me so much. I explained that I would have to limit access for both our sakes. She took this well.

I explained calmly that I was eating properly, exercising and doing some work. I paint & take photographs. I told her that I was thinking clearly and feeling much stronger because the most important thing I had to do was stand by her and win her back. She looked a t me as if I was insane.

We managed to keep this conversation calm & courteous.

She flies back to England this week to see our sons & DIL, aged 25, 27 & 24. They are going to give her a hard time. She is beating herself up because our close family will never be the same again. She thinks that they will hate her and lose respect for her.

I’ve spoken to her brother & he feels that she has temporarily taken leave of her senses. He advised me to be tougher with her. Her only other living close relative is her aunt in Scotland. Her relationship is nearer to mother & daughter. Although she’s getting old, her aunt is compassionate but ‘no nonsense’ & has a strong sense of right & wrong. I suggested that it would be good to talk things through with her. She won’t & I think it’s because she’s ashamed. I’m going to contact her aunt.

My concern is if she’s forced back to me because of guilt, shame & family pressure. Will the fact that she hasn’t found out whether the OM is the ‘real deal’ and feels trapped & resentful hurt our chances of reconciliation?

Our house is for sale at the moment. We moved into a newly-built house 18 months ago to start a new life. We decided before the A to look for an older ‘character’ house to renovate & improve. We’ve done this kind of thing before.

We’ve been told that someone is interested in the house and we’ve got to say how far we will move on the price to clinch the deal. WS is keen to sell. She lives 200 yards away in the WS’s apartment. It’s very small even for 1 let alone 2. They want to find something bigger. I’m no longer in a hurry to sell & I think it’s too soon after 4 weeks for WS and a stranger to be setting up home in a larger property. I also thought ‘you made your bed, now you can lie in it’ (do you use this expression in the US?). If I take the house off the market, she will take it badly & this could start a war..there’s been no bitterness towards me so far.
Since the A she’s started to rationalise her irrational behaviour by digging up my faults (at first she said I had done nothing wrong). One of these faults is that I was too eager to please her & she respected me for less because of it. I’m inclined to take the house off the market.

One other thing, the family car… I’ve been letting her use it when I don’t need it. OMs car is dangerous. You Americans won’t believe how small & flimsy OM’s Fiat Panda is. He paid less that $100 for it. It’s about 20 years old unsafe and is completely illegal. He’s no documents, including insurance. I’m concerned about WS driving it she could have an accident or get stopped by the police. This is another ‘bed & lie in it’ situation. Am I being petty if I stop her using our car as my sons & BIL suggest?

Any advice out there?