I have been reading as per ZP's request, and I think we can help FindingMe, but no one has really responded over at EN, so I hope you don't mind Finding Me, but I posted your threads here to get more help and support for you.

*******

Posted by FindingMe

but I guess I was fooling myself.

He just left.

Thursday DH and I spent a couple hours working on the house together. Everything seemed fine. Then we went to bed and an argument ensued. He hit one of my soft spots by telling me he went to see an ex-friend of mine the other day, and I said things I shouldn't have, but by the end, I thought we were ok again. He had said he was going to leave when he got home this morning, but I didn't believe him. He's said that before. I was wrong.

This ex-friend of mine thing has really had me concerned for a while. Our friendship turned sour a last winter, and in the spring I found out he had been talking to her. He mentioned that she went back to her husband a few months ago, and that's when I found out about it. I started checking phone bills. He was calling her while I was at work and DS was in bed. I talked to him about it, told him I was NOT comfortable with him being friends with her no matter how innocent he felt it to be. He defended himself, but the cell phone bill did show the calls had stopped. Now he's gone to see her.

He still swears there is nothing going on with any other woman. I don't know if I should believe him or not.

I've been trying so hard to work on his ENs. DS is one, I joined up with FlyLady and there has been much improvement. Now he says I need a better job, I'm looking. I'm also supposed to be going back to school, though, and it's hard to find a job better than what I have that will allow me to do that! I need flexible and flexible doesn't usually come with great pay.

He left with tears in his eyes and gave me a lingering hug before bolting out the door. I couldn't believe it, but I was the strong one through the whole thing. I didn't tear up, I didn't get angry. My voice cracked once or twice, that was it. I was trying to make that last interaction a positive one for him to remember. Trying to remember what I learned here a long time ago.

I was in bed as he started loading his things. I got up and just kind of wandered the house a few minutes then went and sat on our bed. I asked him was he sure this was what he wanted. He said no, but something has to give. He needed some time away. I'm so scared! I know that being apart doesn't help love grow. Time apart is part of what got us here. I work mornings, he works evenings at NWA and is a fireman. In the last 3 weeks we've only had Thursday evening together. Other than that we saw each other only in passing. So I guess being separated won't be much different for me, but it's going to be very different for him.

I guess I can only hope that wherever he's going he's going to be uncomfortable.

I asked how were we going to handle our finances. He said he didn't know. I told him we needed to get a house payment off this weekend, because losing the house wouldn't help either one of us no matter what happened between us. I reminded him that 2 payments for my truck are already scheduled to go out Monday, and I can't look for a better job without one. He agreed.

We actually had a very good conversation, I think. I only slipped up once. I asked where he was going and he said not to worry about it. I said why, because it somewhere I wouldn't let you come back from? He said no. I immediately wished I hadn't said that, but he seemed to take it in stride.

What do I do now? Plan B will be quite impossible for financial reasons. Do I ONLY talk to him when it concerns that? Does Plan B apply in our situation? We didn't talk much as it was, just act like nothing has changed when we do talk? Act like I don't care? HELP!!

*****

Update:

DH came back a little while ago looking for his wallet. I think he left quite confused and a little rattled.

I told him I hadn't seen his wallet, but I'd let him know if I did. He said thanks and was about to go when I said, "Um, if you don't live here anymore, then there doesn't need to be any of this coming and going as you please." He looked at me like he couldn't believe I had just said that.

He replied back with, "As long as I'm paying the bills I will."

I had realized right after I said it that he didn't have to help with the bills, and I might have just stabbed myself in the back, but I recovered. I said, "OK, so I can mail a house payment this weekend and the money will still be in the account to cover it and my truck note?"

"Yea, I guess."

I smiled and said, "OK, I didn't get that much out of you this morning, and I needed that clarified."

He's really looking confused now, and I walked off to the bedroom. He follows me in there and I turn around to face him. At this point the longer I look at him, the stronger I feel. So I just give him a blank stare. He stammers, "I guess I'll see ya later, then."

"OK, bye!"

He just stares a minute longer and then laughs. I have to ask what's so funny and he says me. What's so funny about me? "You are fighting it so hard."

"Fighting what?" As I look in his eyes I see a mixture of amusement, concern, nervousness, and respect. Yep, even respect!

He puts his arms around me and says, "You know what I'm talking about," and heads to the door. So now I've gotten more hugs from him in one day than in the last 3 weeks. He asked what my mother had said and I told him about that. She told me to just hang in there, dad wants me to just stay here until I get thrown out (foreclosed), but mom wants me to try to keep up payments since it's cheaper than rent, and they might help me refinance the house. DH takes that to mean I've got it all figured out. No, I tell him, "you asked what my mother said and I told you. I told you without hiding anything, being totally open and honest with you. Don't take this to mean I'm not terrified."

"Terrified of what?"

"You could yank the world out from under my feet and you know it. You know I can't support myself and DS right now." Fishing for intent here.

He made a smart comment about right now nothing, I never could. I reminded him that I was doing so just fine before he came into my life and I could do it again, that's why I said RIGHT NOW.

He opens the door and says see ya later again, to which I again answered with simply bye. He walks to the truck shaking his head.

--------------------
Amanda

Trying to find my way back to who I was....

Amanda, where did he go?

I strongly suspect he is having an affair with your friend. Your best weapon against this is EXPOSURE. You must find out the facts and then expose to the OW's husband, her family, your H's family and any close friends. Exposure RUINS affairs because they thrive on secrecy. Exposure will likely end or hasten the end of the affair.

Secondly, you should run to the bookstore and get the book Surviving an Affair so you can understand what is happening here. In the meantime, please read the link in my signature about Plan A. You should be in Plan A right now doing everything you can to avoid lovebusters.

Dorry,

Thank you very much for doing this for FM. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I really appreciate you taking the time.

Thanks, also, Melody.

I would like to update about where I was hitting a wall.

It's certainly on the financial situation they're in. I'll let FM tell what she wants about what we discussed, but the issue I'm having trouble advising on is her legal rights if he was to wipe the bank account and not provide anything for bills.

Could she take him to court at all for that? She's been working, so probably no alimony. Her son is not his, so no CS from him on that to help with the house.

We did get some things straight re: her sitch if she received no help. I was just wondering if there was financial protection for her.

If she has other questions, I hope she will ask here.

Okay, on Plan A. She has been working at this for years. She was in an accident (pretty sure she posted here a long time ago about it) and hurt her back so working and housework are a bit more difficult. Before that, I think she was on top of the housework.

Nothing she has been doing to meet his needs has helped him overcome his demands.

Still, FM has worked to meet his needs as best she could and as much as he would let her (he basically shuts her out of meeting his needs for RC). I don't think FM has been negotiating effectively and he tries to keep the upper hand. He does this in various ways including fabrications over minor things, things she wouldn't really care about happening. He also tries to implicate her in wrongdoing, that she has not done.

I think it's time for Plan B.

Just posting this in case someone else has another opinion that may help FM.

Thanks again,

~ZP

zuzupetals, how long has he been in the affair?

Can you ask her to come over here so we can ask her some questions? Thanks.

Hello everyone and thank you for your responses.I have contacted the OW's H. Here is what I wrote and what he wrote back.

"This is AE, P's old friend. I just thought you needed to know about the amazing friendship our spouses have with each other. H is so into his friendship with P, that he puts their friendship over our marriage and refuses to end contact with her, even though I've told him I'm not comfortable with it. I have no idea what happened between me and P, but I do know that H talking to her is NOT going to help our marriage or yours. P told one of the kids in the neighborhood that she had a crush on H, so it wouldn't take much for a "friendship" to evolve into something more.

Anyway, I don't know what you will want to do with this information, but I thought you would probably like to know. I know I would have wanted you to tell me if you knew. Of course, still have to see if you'll even get it. If not, I'll try again."

The response:

"I'm not concerned about any "budding" relationship between H and P. I do not think there is an "amazing friendship" there at all. I think either H or you is romanticizing it quite a bit. I also don't believe anything about P having a "crush" on H. I think too much stock is placed into the word of a child or children. They like to stir up things and have a tendency to exaggerate any conversation, especially the kids I've come across in the area. Something as benign as, "I think H's a nice guy" or similar can quickly turn into a "crush" or a wild fling or anything. And, it's not just the kids. There's a lot of gossiping and crap that goes on in this town and, frankly, I'm quite sick of all of it.

I know H has called P and has shown up at the house before she's left for work. She told me about it. I admit it's awkward with him coming by the house, but I trust P completely. It sounds like you can't put the same trust in H and I'm sorry about that. However, that is an issue you and he need to work on and not try to transfer any blame on P or try to drag her and/or I into it. If P wants to have a friendship with H, I'm not worried about it "evolving" into anything more. I'm also not going to tell P that she can't be friends with anyone. She's a grown woman and can make those choices for herself. I trust her to make the right choices.

You and I have never really hit it off that well and I barely know H. However, I am sorry the two of you are apparently having troubles. P and I have had our problems, but they were our problems and not an issue with any 3rd parties. We have worked through our issues and have come through the other side. I can't say it's been easy, but we continue to work on it. I think that's where you and H are going to have to get to either on your own or through counseling or something.

This is my business account. If you wish to continue this conversation, please use my personal account.... "

This is what I'm thinking about sending back. Is it good?

"I don't believe there is anything physical going on with them, YET, but there is such a thing as an emotional affair. It is a short step to physical. P may not be as involved as H is, but anytime an opposite sex friendship is held with higher esteem than the marriage relationship, you are asking for problems.

The phone calls were all while I was a salary manager at McD's and H was laid off. On nights I closed, he was calling her at 10:30pm. This was while she lived at the end of our street. After I had to take some time off work after reinjuring my back at work, the calls stopped. I was always here. He changed her name in his phone to "Tater Brown" trying to hide her number, then put her number under his cousin's wife's name. All of this is suspicious of something inappropriate, wouldn't you think? Again, inappropriate doesn't mean sex, but P is meeting some need that H won't allow me to meet. Our relationship has steadily crumbled since P came to live here with us. And I don't know why she won't talk to me anymore. Is it guilt? Who knows.

I told you about it because my counselor told me it was my next step. Exposure.

I tried for months to talk to P to find out why she doesn't want our friendship anymore. She's lie to me and tell me she'd come by, but she wouldn't. I was very upset about it for a long time. Like I said, I have no idea what happened between us, unless it was H that happened between us. She won't talk to me, and that is why I'm so uncomfortable with their friendship. Why would you want a friendship with someone who apparantly hates your wife?

I hope you are right in trusting her now since she has a history of emotional affairs. I'm sure you know exactly who I'm talking about. I wish I could trust H. It's more than this friendship that doesn't allow me to."

Amanda,

This guy is in the "men and women can be friends only" trap. I'm glad you see that.

Perhaps just refer him to the book "NOT 'Just Friends!'" I wouldn't try to talk to him more about it. It seems like he's made up his mind.

~ZP

Oh yeah, and maybe a quick list of the fact. Put it in list form, I mean, and focus on P's behavior instead of your Hs.

~ZP

http://www.shirleyglass.com/

Maybe include this link, too.

~ZP

I'm feeling weak right now guys. I want to pick up my phone and call him crying, make him feel bad and make him come home. I miss him so much and I'm losing my mind. I can't concentrate on anything else but wanting him home. I can't even get into NASCAR, and I'm glued to the TV every Sunday for NASCAR. I want him home!

Also feeling weak about my decision to quit smoking. I quit last week and I'm faltering.

Understandable, FM. But remember, neediness seems to hurt your relationship.

Remember yesterday when you told him something and he looked at you, almost stunned, and you thought you saw respect there? It's because you weren't takin' it anymore. You were standing up for yourself, and your marriage.

Groveling doesn't get you the marriage you want. Boundaries do. Don't cross your boundaries now.

If you want to Plan A and meet needs, do so, without groveling. Do it because you want to. If you want to ask him back to go into Plan A or negotiation, go ahead, but call on that resolve of yesterday. And...I'm leaning toward negotiation if he comes home. Exchange need-for-need...him first. If he leaves, he knows your terms.

~ZP

DON'T GIVE UP ON QUITTING SMOKING!!!

*hack, hack!* (Loaning you my asthma. ;P)

~ZP

Update:

I was going through his phone bill and found a number that I first was worried that it could be a new # for this ex-friend of mine. I was wrong, but it was a woman's number.

Her name is Jamie, and I think I've made an ally. She works with H at NWA and has talked to him on a few occasions about what's going on. He told her that I thought he was having an affair with P and Jamie asked was he and he denied it. So at that time I can assume there was nothing physical going on. Jamie is going to keep an ear to the ground for me. She's not going to try to push H for information, but she will get back to me if she hears anything. She dealt with an A in her first marriage and hates liars and cheaters. More exposure.

Talked to one of DH's buddies. H is staying with his parents. That's good to know. Also, talked to DH a little while ago about some things we were in the process of buying for the boat. At the end of the conversation he said he was going to let me go. I said ok, I love you, and hung up before he had a chance to respond. I don't think he would have said it back, anyway.

I've talked to a potential room mate. I'm nervous about having someone move in and H deciding to come home, us working out agreeable terms, and having to tell them sorry, ya gotta go. I guess if they know that's a possibility from the get go it won't be a big deal, but it still feels rude.

I think you're right about the roommate thing. Just let them know up-front.

I don't know what to say about your DH. Maybe he's not really in an affair, but it really does look suspicious and this isn't the first time you've suspected.

Just keep it in mind for now, I guess. Work on the marriage as if there wasn't really one going on, but keep your eyes on that situation and maybe as things progress, make cutting contact with P part of reconciliation.

What do you think?

~ZP

Is this a normal phase? I've gone from severe depression and wanting him back no matter what to not wanting him back at all and wanting to move on with my life. Can I expect to keep flip flopping on this?

Going to get a lawyer tomorrow. That will help a lot. As of right now I can see myself filing tomorrow. Tomorrow when I get there it could be a different story. I'm so confused.

ZZ: I do believe there is an EA going on and quite possibly it is one-sided. She returned his calls sometimes, but she never initiated one.

Talked to one of the other managers at work a little while ago. Mentioned I need a room mate and she said we could fix that. I told her if she wants to move in, come on. She's also in the middle of a custody battle and gave me the name and number of her lawyer. Says she's real good and not that expensive.

bump ^

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