CJ-your the bomb!

thank you, thank you, thank you! so needed to hear that today!

Your post made me really think hard about things! i've been reading LAs posts...she scares me too sometimes...but she is soooo good! really takes things that are right in our face, too close for us to see, and explains them so well!

I totally agree with you about the 180 thing. In our M...i did the same. doesn't work well, especially when that was one of the biggest problems we had in our M. One of the reasons i feel that pushed H away from me. Hard for me to see how it can work for me if that is what helped put me here, ya know. does that make sense?

Oh if not...chalk it up to the mental thing! Feeling alot of pressure from everyone to leave my H, my home...just no pressure from God to do it. I have let God guide me this far and i want God to continue to guide me and show me! I want God's perfect will for my life, my M, my baby boy. Sure leaving might just open his eyes, then again it might only open them for a time...he comes home...we work things out...only to happen again. Nope i want the REAL fix. God's fix!

I will continue to pray, continue my faith.

you know what CJ-i think your right about his needing to be with us. He does. i enjoy our time together. its good. We are together every day. supper together. movies, games...even put Jay to bed together the other night. I miss him when he leaves...but...i don't die. sometimes i am glad when he leaves...i have time to me. I know when he leaves...he hates it. He hates leaving, but he just can't stay. Not ready to. I want him when he is ready, not before that point.

No, answering your ? about him talking to my best friend...he didn't admit anything to her. Never admitted to anyone. then again, who would he admit to? He just answered her ?s with a ?, or repeating what she would say. don't think it mattered that she called, but then again...who knows. all it shows to me is how much she cares for me, and how hurt she is over is mistreating of me and Jay. How can that be bad? He knows that her intentions were for the good...how could he not?

Thanks for checking in on me CJ! Not too many people on the Plan A board. Just so you know...health is better, hearts beating (i think, unless i'm dead)...but much better! thanks for checking!

thanks again for the post! just what i needed!

Just for fun...i asked Jay about the Todd thing again. Hehe! goofy little thing. He told me Todd lives up there (pointing to the sky) and said...mom..he holds the rain in his hands and pours it out...thats when it rains! (im kinda freaking at this point...thinking okay...does he think God is "todd"? knowing better because he speaks of God all the time but still???) he said ...you can't see him mom...but i can! My son...??? Kinda freaky huh? Maybe God's name is Todd? hmmm?

and by the way....you made me feel so much better, but i could kill you....really CJ...i didn't need the song to linger in my head this long!!!uhhh! Maybe if it were a Rob Thomas version...Hmmmm...!

take care! JM

Yes...the song...that was the point EXACTLY!!!!

I gave you something else to worry about, haha. A distraction, maybe. Annoying? Certainly. I didn't know if it would work. I wanted to make a point about the power of suggestion, what are you suggesting to yourself these days?

So, this is YOUR mind playing the song over and over. Yours. Within you. Within your control.

Waddaya gonna do about it?! Can you play a different song in your head that you LIKE!? How about "Push"? (Hmm...don't listen to THESE lyrics too closely, not real uplifting...defiant though...what else? The tune w/Santana?)

Can you apply this to other aspects of your life?

Sorry to play with your mind, I have a need these days to project my own mind's sorry state, I guess...I apologize. I AM trying to help...

haha, I know I'm outside of your "killing radius"!! Good thing...

Todd/God, interesting. However this played out, maybe God stepped in to add some jealousy? Or just stepped in to mix things up? We don't know. I don't think Jay "lied" about it, it was his reality, so was seeing OW. Your H KNOWS. He knows Jay witnessed and got the car color right. No need to worry, those things could have been avoided through your H's actions; outside of your circle of control. Let him WORRY about it. And he is. 'Cuz he HAD to ask you. Nice.

Take care, gotta go...now if I could just get this darn song outta my head!!!!!!!!

"Don't just stand there, say nice things to me...I've been cheated, i've been wronged"

CEEEJJJ!!! i wasn't thinking about "Push"...I'm fired up now! whew...Move out of my way...got the controlling thing going on in my mental mind right now!

Heck don't apologize for playing with my mind...its in the same state as your mind remember. No apologizes!!!

I need to catch up on your thread a bit more, so have you exposed? Good luck if not. Hope you have better luck than i did. Mine would've been better if i had more to expose in the beginning. Like exposing to her work, friends, instead of just the H. She got off free. Her kids have been spared. Work same for her...her sister works there...(just found out), nothing had to change for OW except she had to cry a bit and play her H up a bit to cover it up.

Ah-well....it will all come crashing down soon! somehow, someway...it won't hide forever and she will have to pay at some point!

shame your outside of my killing radius!! At least Jay and i would have something fun to do on the weekends...we could listen to your band! well...only if it isn't something icky like polka or something!! HA!!!!

Any way...Good luck on the exposure thing!!!! Pray hard...let God in control!!!!

within my control, switching songs....gotta get out of the bitter stage before heading home...hmm..."ever the same" yep that will work!

check up on you later! JM

Oh no,

I didn't mean to get you fired up...I'm not helping the way you need...sorry.

Just trying to help you get happy from within, not to look on the outside, from your H, from what he is doing, y'know? You might not find your happiness there, b/c of your expectations. Just take the things with your H that you need, I mean there ARE some great things about your relationship, filter out the bad. But your expectations of what an H is is different than how he is right now. I'm not saying ignore, just be careful about what you are repeating to yourself, over and over, in your mind. Repeating the wrong things hurts. It was helping me. Helped me know that no matter what, I was doing what was good for me, and I'm proud of that, and no one can take it away...

I do hope I didn't make you bitter, I hope that you were bitter already,(well, I wish you never have to be bitter, but...) and hopefully these are some tools to help with this?

I KNOW I'm bitter, but I think it helps me stay AWARE, and stay focused, helps me know who I am, and what I believe in... I can choose NOT to be, helps when I have the right self-talk...

Yeah I should have rolled around ALL the "push" lyrics in my head b4 bringing that up, oops.

how about something happier, "Rubber duckie" from Sesame Street? Baths r fun, yeah, and rubber duckies are fun, yeah, mental, i know, I'll go get a CATscan...

CJ-my friend....you are going to have to stop taking me so seriously!!!

I have laughed my butt off today!!! i have had a good day!!
Being fired up...thats a good thing! means i'm not rolling around feeling sorry for myself, nope means i am taking control! Understand...this chick has a very dry sense of humor also!!! I guess i don't realize that you guys may not know i am joking most of the time...sorry! I'll make myself a bit more clear next time!!!!

You most definitely do help~~~ please don't take me the wrong way!!! and you make me bitter, heck no! I'm always bitter...its who i am (you see...there i go again...being silly....)

strange as it may sound/be....i have had more people say to me..."how do you stay so sane?" " i don't know how you function...how you work, live...i would go nuts"

BY THE GRACE OF GOD! i love my H with all my heart...and this has been the worst thing i have ever had to face in my entire 33 years, but i have learned so much about myself, my son, my friends, family and mostly grown spiritually. I haven't given up on life, wanted to at times, still do...but i still laugh, go out with friends...this isn't going to kill me. Romans 8:28 ....you know!!!

But i'm really worried that you think i am REALLY bitter and that you have said or done things to push me over the edge...oh please don't, that's only my crazy humor talking...i forget that you guys can't hear it in my head...only read it!! And the "push" lyrics...didn't bother me a bit! sat at my desk...singing, carrying on...

can never go wrong with any Rob song!!!

and oh my gosh....RUBBER DUCKIE...was my fav!!!! Rubber duckie i'm totally fond of yooouuu!!!!

Jay's not big on the ol' Sesame Street. Nope..."moma that's for babies" he's into..well right now he's watching H's old pink panther cartoon's....from when we were kids. H just bought the box set last week. Jake has watched it about 10 times already!!

CJ sorry if i made you feel like you had pissed me off. didn't mean too! You have been so kind and helpful!

hope you have a great evening! check in on you tomorrow...after your CAT scan! ha!

JM

See how much I know about women? No wonder I'm in such a mess...heh, heh! Thank you for being you!

I need to stop taking myself so seriously too, it's just that I know ourselves and so many others here are on the emotional roller coaster...I know how easy some days it's easy to push me over the proverbial "edge".



I thought we WERE nuts! People don't know how they'd react 'til they're here, but they're right on with the "nuts". It's like already having hives and bathing in strawberries and eating bee pollen...

I've had a LOT of people tell me the same, I don't how it's done, it just is...what choice do we have when our values are involved?


You are NOT sane. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> You use the word "crazy" more than anyone I've known. Oh yeah, and "mental". I'm not sane either. I'm starting to LIKE IT! or not. i mean yes. i mean...what was i talking about? Hey, where...am...i? Ooo, i like this...DESK!



I WAS worried. Nobody's fault. "I almost lost my COOLLL there" (from "The Grinch" w/Jim Carey)

So I had my cat scanned and they tell me she's fine. Strangely, I'm still worried about ME though...



So we're babies, eh?! I...am...NOT! You can't make me! (sniff)

Good grief, can you tell I'm tired? Last night was cool, we (band) played in Regina, Saskatchewan. (we are all from Saskatoon, look it up, I like tellin people from the US these names 'cuz they usually find them funny) We played the "Brier", HUGE curling tourney. ( <a href="www.curling.ca/fan_central/brier/2006/index.asp" target="_blank">www.curling.ca/fan_central/brier/2006/index.asp</a> )

2 years ago we won a bands wars contest (called Brier Idol, you can imagine how this idea started...) and we got to open for Blue Rodeo. (edit: at the Brier, that is) THAT was WAY cooler than last night...

Anyway, we played the purple hearts lounge, REALLY laid back, kinda not exciting, but it was cool, all the gear was there, only played for an hour and a bit, made $1750. (what's that...about $4 US?) But we didn't get home 'til about 3am. (like the Rob song, except...not)

Oh here's something to check out for kicks... http://www.longshotmusic.ca/

Which one am I? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> (hint, I have hair! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />)

l8r

I have to say(from a WS point of view) that once I decided to step out of the marraige, I pretty much justified myself and guilt was not a factor. I honestly dont think guilt plays a factor in it until you loose everything and see the damage that your actions have caused the people around you.

The WS lies about everything. The more time you can spend with OM/OW is the only thing that is on your mind.
They will give you false hope at every turn.

If you are doing a plan A or B, they will compromise it at every turn and make you look like the one who is doing wrong.

Advice: If you are compromising the plan A or B at all, it WILL NOT WORK..I guess if H has been stern with it all I would have, we would have ended this thing long ago. I think because H himself was lying it would have never worked.

Be Careful..Listen to what your heart tells you.
I promise you it is almost always right.

Be firm with the NO CONTACT letter and when that is not being followed, put your foot down. This will hurt but in the long run, it will end up saving you from months, maybe years of pain and conflict.

We do come out of the fog eventually but alot of times it is to late.

CJ--your not playing fair, so are you saying you really are the one without hair or one of the guys with?

liked the site, and the song on the home page! Pretty cool!!!your the most famous person i've known but don't know! Heehee!

anji2you, thank you so much for the post...i have so wanted a WS point of view for soooooo long! this plan A i have going on just seems so drawn out.

i'll just be honest...its so scarry to think if you do something you will lose everything you had for well...12 years! any other advice???

gotta go guys...the patients just keep coming but not leaving!!

CJ---don't have a clue even how to pronounce where you live...but...it sounds cool!!! i'll have to look it up later!

check back in a bit! JM

I don't understand...no sarcasm or deception...

I really do have hair! I'm far from famous...

Just like they sound:

Saskatoon --> SAS-KA-TUNE (we have saskatoon berries here too, and they make great pie! Kinda like blueberries... really.)

Saskatchewan --> SAS-KAT-CHOO-WON

anji2you...nice hear your perspective, I think you have a valid point about consequences, JM and I are both struggling with how to do this without doing too much damage. I'm starting to think that some type of move is necessary, and let the cards fall where they may...

anji2you, I checked some of your old posts (lucidity), wow, you've been through everything! Hope things are better...hope your boys are doing well...

JM already exposed, it didn't have the desired impact...

CJ

I'm drained today guys. whew.

H just left. Jay and i are just hanging out. Its weird you know. H leaves says...see you all tomorrow. He was kinda quiet tonight. sitting here thinking to myself...how long will he be "happy" with this? I don't understand.

Left his family because....well...he never said why. Then about 2 weeks after leaving i got the ILYBNILWY speech....(only once...never has said it again...especially when i told him...NICE JOHN...glad SHE convinced you that....)oh...anyway...looking back at the timeline...its just weird.

I think back thru our M, my H has always been SO jealous. SO very jealous! the guy i dated before my H...he and i were fairly serious, he called me a few times after my H and i started dating...we remained friends for a while...i was always honest with my H about it...but it drove him nuts!!! A couple of years ago...that guy was killed. He was a highway patrolman and was hit by a semi, anyway...my friends called to tell me, then mom, dad, etc...SEVERAL people called to tell me what had happended...it was very tragic. My H got so mad because of it. jealous over a dead man who was married himself and had a child. Mad because he thought "too many people were calling to tell me, he thought it wasn't right..." the people who called all knew him when i dated him...they all knew him well...were sad about it....He flipped out...over a dead guy.

and now...i'm just here...alone...with my son. Just us. Lonely. becoming more lonely by the day. Missing affection. Missing being loved.

he enjoys being with us...but he doesn't seem interested in me physically at all. sometimes he flinches if i touch him. this man got wound up if i brushed my hair a certain way...i just don't get it. He sometimes wants to sneak a peek then acts pissed if he does. I don't get it. Maybe i should be glad i guess. At least he won't do me and her at the same time...

I am just tiring again.

rambling tonight...sorry.

CJ...i've seen the little curling thingy on TV when i have been flippin' around and i don't get it. Not that i sit and watch it...i just flip by it...its kinda strange lookin'
i like baseball. Atlanta Braves!!

and i'm sorry...but how you 'spose to know which one you are in the band...none of you are holdin' an instrument. there's no pics by your name....so how could i guess which one you are...? but i'll throw out a guess. 2nd guy from left in pic at top of the page??? did i win????

yes you are famous...dang it...cause i said. I've never known anyone famous...don't blow this for me....makes me feel like i'm important!!! ha...

gotta go...Jay's chasin' the cats around the house with a lotion bottle...keeps screaming at them that they need "sunscreen"...i've just been sittin' back watching for a minute...better step in now...the fat one looks like she might have a heart attack!

Later guys! JM

WOOOOOOOOOOOEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

I'm Irish, and TODAY's the DAY!! I told LA I'd do a DJ jig on stage tonight! Um, we'll see...

Happy St. Patty's day JM and Jay and whoever else is lurking!

Don't worry about rambling, JM, that what this place is about, I don't know HOW I'd be continuing doing my home life without this site and everyone's support, I certainly ramble...so ramble away! This IS all so draining, I always look forward to seeing who has replied to my posts and given me advice, this place REALLY keeps me going...thanks JM for your patient ear and encouragment...sorry I spun that thought around to ME, but I hope YOU are finding comfort in these boards...it's so nice to understand how others are going through similar things...

I was thinking, and I think others have said this here, the ILYBNILWY speech... isn't it just freakin' SPOOKY how similar these WS/OP things are for even different people? It's just bizarre! I got the ILYBNILWY thing too! I hadn't even HEARD this phrase before, I had to think about what it might mean b4 I even could understand it! Where did she get this? Too much Oprah, too much Dr. Phil? I didn't know, went looking for support on the net, ordering some other course that said,"What to do when your spouse says ILYBNILWY!" So this spoke to me, and I ordered the course. I thought mine was an ISOLATED case!!! Then I come to MB, as well as other places, and it is so common it makes my head spin! Heck, it was even needed to have a freakin' acronym, for cryin' out loud! "ILYBNILWY" So it is easier to type!!!!!!!

So I took it to mean,"I care about you, I don't mean to hurt you, but I don't feel that SPARK anymore." (WS point of view)

And then I come to MB, and I get taught that it means,"I care about you sometimes, I don't want to appear mean, but I have another relationship that undermines ours, and it is so wonderful that I can't help but compare it to ours, but it is so fresh and new, and I can't think of anything bad about it, it's so easy and natural, and ours is too real and difficult, and I prefer my easy and natural relationship to ours, so I've been investing myself in the other relationship, nutured it and watched it grow and it makes me feel so good. And ours just doesn't feel that way anymore, and I don't understand why, but I don't really care anymore, why can't WE make our relationship feel this good, even though WE aren't investing any time into it anymore. So we must've never had a good relationship before, because I forget what it felt like when it was good, and I can think of many reasons why it wasn't good. I can think of a lot of reasons why it MUST'VE been bad, and I'll share them with you, and for now, I'll focus on these reasons, because it helps me with my guilt, and in fact, I don't really feel guilty as long as I keep my reasons in mind. But I married you anyway."

I know I've DJ'd all over the place when writing the above, but I feel it describes the mechanics of A's, y'know? We just want our CHANCE to show our WS's that our relationship wasn't all bad, and it has the potential to be good and even better, but to do that, we need to invest in our relationship, not someone elses!

I have a theory, I'll share it with you. OK, there's what...6 billion people in the world? About 3 billion of the opposite gender. Say, out of these 3 billion people, there is ONE person (or maybe even 10) that would be IDEAL for ME. Am I really gonna meet them? What are the chances? Pretty remote. So we meet someone else. Someone wonderful. Have we compromised? Maybe, but who cares. We meet this person when we are attracted to them, and inspired to make to be the best it can be. We have no biases towards them other than wanting to make the relationship as good as it can be. Do we LOVE this person right away? Likely not. (I'm not a "love at first sight guy", I believe love develops) We might be enamoured with them, infatuated with them, and VERY motivated to help the relationship develop, attentive. So without really trying, we end up making HUGE love bank deposits. And the other person, hopefully, is VERY receptive to these deposits. A lot of time gets invested in this new relationship.

Next thing you know, if all goes well, the feeling of love gets triggered. Is this person the ideal person for you? Maybe. Is there a MORE ideal person (ie. your "soulmate") somewhere out there? Statistically, I would say that this is very likely. But is that really important? What's important is that this new RELATIONSHIP has become IDEAL for you! Because this R was given a chance to grow, because you have (perhaps even superficially) tended to each other's needs with such close detail. You are now with a person well suited to you because of the caring you both share for each other. All is well and good, and I don't think you would need to feel or wonder if you've compromised, or just "settled". You accept each other and your differences, because they don't seem to matter, they are undermined by all of the love you have built together.

Then time passes, people get complacent, and don't tend to each other's needs so well. An A happens. BOOM! What happened to caring for each other's needs in the primary relationship? The emotional energy has gone somewhere else. Now all the differences seem to have a major importance, without the love to shield each other from our criticisms, our relationship goes down a slippery slope. The OP is now in the light as you once were, everything they say is gold, and their shortcomings are not obvious.

So now what. The same mechanics apply. If the two people in the primary relationship focus on themselves (WITHOUT OP) then they could build their feelings back up for each other. But something is different...

Their NOT inspired to do so now! Or only one person is. One or both believe that they just weren't "meant for each other". WHY?! They believed it once. But they were dating, no one had their "dirty laundry" out. There were no bad assumptions being made about each other. They were obviously compatible enough to marry, and they could reach that place again. They don't realize that it is the relationship they fell in LOVE with, not necessarily the person. And they DON'T have any motivation to meet needs to fall in love again. They can't make sense of doing something that feels awkward and label the relationship as dead, or broken.

Therefore, the ILYBNILWY speech. It's UNCANNY! And I can almost see how it comes about without watching Dr. Phil (sorry Dr. I mean no disrespect, just worried about how WS's are interpreting your teachings) or Desparate Housewives. It DOES accurately describe their feelings! But they are missing how it REALLY has come about...

But if the same effort was put into the relationship as when they were dating, they would start to feel connected again. Likely the feeling of love would trigger again, obviously the potential is already there. But they don't want to do the work, 'cuz its no fun, it's not NEW, there is no novelty to it, no "new toy" feeling.

This is NOT a breakthrough theory, and really is EXACTLY what Harley is saying.

But what I'm trying to say, is that we fall in love with the person that we put effort into. The OP is likely not our "soulmate" either. There's likely someone better than the BS and the OP. But the OP's relationship takes no "work". It is easy, new, fun, and magical. And the effort put into OP, if put into BS (although dull, old, boring, resentful) would have the same results.

We choose, in this way, which RELATIONSHIPS we make ideal for ourselves. The people we have our IDEAL relationship with, do not need to be IDEAL in and of themselves. They simply need to be SUITABLE.

I wish WS's could realize this, I wish they would realize that if they put in the work, had faith, made a commitment, ditched the OP, that the marriage could also work, and they would feel very good about it. That it is not hopeless between two people that are OBVIOUSLY compatible enough to foster the feelings of love. We are not talking about two people who have ALWAYS hated each other, or totally changed into someone else! We are talking about two people that were attracted to each other enough to have SF and marry! That if we repeat our "dating" under diress, it would bring us closer together. That LOVE, in this way, is a CHOICE! That they are responsible for how they feel, as much as us...

But I know the above is OUR reality based on the biases that WE have (biased to WANT our marriage), and WS's reality has a different truth (biased to want out or keep their A), and they will ALSO find ways to rationalize it...by cutting us down, rewriting/refocusing history, etc.

Still, I feel that the Harley principles have basis in pyschological science, and describe the dynamics of human relationships, regardless of HOW we might be biased...

OMGosh, what a RANT!! Sorry. The ILYBNILWY thing just gets me fired up!

You're a winner! Got me on your first guess! Curling, yeah about as exciting as watching paint dry, I don't watch it either...but I've played it, it IS kinda fun...

Take care, hope this rant helps, nothing you didn't already know...

CJ

uh-uh, no way dude...really thats you? Okay wanna know something extra, extra freaky??

so i call my best friend yesterday, cause you know i tell her just about everything and then some...probably more than she wants to know!! anyway...telling her about your website etc...and i said....you know whats weird...one of the guys looks just like H.

talked to her just a while ago...she's like hey... i looked up the website...how cool... and by the way...that guy looks just like john..."i knew exactly who you were talking about"

Yep...that'd be you...
its just a small, freaky, world huh?

I do look forward to seeing who posts to me as well...problem is ...your about the only one who does now. MSA was such a rock for me for the first several months. I guess if i were on the GQ maybe...but...i so appreciate your advice ...really you have no idea. Its so nice...(crazy as it sounds) to talk to someone who is in your shoes...get advice, encouragement...etc. This place is for me the same as it is for you.

i don't know what to tell you some days, don't always have advice for you...but maybe if you laugh a little at some of my stupidity...that will help you some days. HA!

agree totally with the ILYBNILWY...i could write a book...but i won't not now...maybe later.

gotta do some kind of work today...

hey i wore green and didn't even mean too...aren't you proud of me!

hope you have a good weekend...i'll check in later! JM

OH YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING!!!

Ok, Ok, I can do you one better...

Guess what my middle name is... yep, SAME SPELLING and EVERYTHING!! C.J. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> Full Initials: C.J.S.

Freaky? Yes'm!



Beat you to it!

later...

well guys its 11:10 and Jay and i are still up...trying to decide right now what to do. should i pack up or not.

things this evening have just pushed me to my limit i think. Even with that...i'm calm. Not tore up. Not crying, not feeling sorry for myself or anything....just sitting here wondering.

I went to my dad's this evening for a while and hung out there...so i wasn't here when H came home. didn't really want to be, just didn't have that "want to be here" feeling in me. Just a nagging feeling today...wanting just to stay away from him for a while. then i speak with him on the phone...on my way home.

H's route is about to change. not because he wanted but because his company did. 9 new routes open for bid. H has to bid on one....he's 3rd in line from the top to bid. 1 month ago when he told me about this ....i am so happy...thinking...easy way honey to get away from her...please do it. i told him ...point blank...YOU choose her route...it's over. period. over.

He knew the consequences...yet he bid on her route today. He didn't want to tell me. Maybe thats why he has been so pitiful acting lately. who knows??? Maybe he has had it for a week...who knows??? but i got it out of him...cause i just knew.

...i just have to stick to my guns. Honestly guys how could i continue? I don't want to. I can't. He knew, i gave him a chance. He could have so easily picked another. Has had chances to in the past to switch but wouldn't ....but this was different....things with him seemed different...wanted to believe he wouldn't...

It isn't set in stone just yet. He could change it. they can put him on another....but...its the fact that HE KNEW.

but i'm okay. i just know that i cannot go on this way any longer. i must do something....i don't know what?

had a very long discussion with him. never raised my voice once. didn't say anything at all mean. Never said anything bad. cried a little. broke down some. but basically i told him...how much i love him and that i would walk in front of a bus for him or Jay, that no one in the world had ever made me feel so loved...as he did ...(until this point.)

i said alot, everything from my heart. He was silent as usual. I ended the convo with "i loved our M, and the 12 years we spent together...but i don't want to become bitter towards you and i want to hold on to the good...thats why...i have to stop this now. told him again i loved him but that i told him if he chose that route it was over..." i told him to not call me or see me until he was ready to speak of arrangements for regarding Jacob. I hung up the phone. that was it...that was it guys.

I know i probably did all the wrong things...said what i shouldn't...but can't change that now.

fact is...i can't live with him...seeing her everyday...even if he comes back begging and pleading. told him once, gave him my terms...NC means just that none what so ever. seeing her everyday would make me crazier than i already am, and what kind of M would we have then? we wouldn't.

so i'm standing here....wondering where do i go from here? am i at Plan B? is it time? i don't know how to Plan B right in his back door. thats why this had gone on so long. He see's my every move.

I don't want to leave guys....don't wanna. this is my home...but what other choice do i have?

Hope you will pray for me ....

at least i know i've done everything possible to show him how much he means to me and how much i love him...i don't think he could/would ever deny that.

we'll see what tomorrow has in store.

let you know what i do. going to bed now! JM

OH...no.

JM...are you ok? You've done a he\\ of a fight. And you're not done.

You're not.

It's 4:20am, just got home from my gig, something told me to check here...now I know why.

I'm so sorry you're at these crossroads...I don't know what to say.

I wish I knew what you should do. Are you in Plan B? Is it time?

Only you can answer this. Are you willing to stick to your guns? This phone call certainly sounded Plan B to me.

It may well be time. Just remember, your NOT done fighting OK? Plan B is just a new strategy. I've heard it is very calming.

I not suggesting anything, this is your decision, ok? Whatever you decide, will be right. Listen to your heart.

Please take care of yourself, go SOMEWHERE tomorrow, don't be available, give yourself some time to really think about what you want to do. Go see your Dad or your best friend, go see someone who can give you a hug.

Sure doesn't sound to me like you "said all the wrong things", sounds like you did perfect, stated you boundaries, and were an absolutly loving wife. What else could you want?

I still can't believe you've done all this for so long, you still inspire me...I can't understand why your H isn't absolutely amazed at what you have done for him.

Everyone else is.

I'll check "tomorrow", I understand if you do not post. But I'll look for you...you're going to be OK. Know it!

(((((((Jaysmom & Jacob))))))))

Yep i'm okay. I really am very okay. Its strange how very okay i am actually. Now in a while i may not be but...we will see.

I remember early on when MSA sent me a post telling me that she didn't know what God was doing when she went to file for D, but she followed it anyway. I remember also her saying that at that time her heart had completely shut down for her H...but look at them now.

7:45 this am....guess who calls. I wasn't surprized. I answered well...because i was asleep and it kinda stunned me. but i did good at least i think. He asked what Jake was doing...i said...sleeping, anything else? "no i don't guess" I told him..."i don't mind you calling to check on Jay...anytime...and i am not trying to sound mean or be mean..but John..you know that Jay is fine and will be, it was your choice to not want your family and in that...you lose the right to know his and my every move...Jay will be fine and if he's not...you will be the first i let know....anything else?" he just mumbled a pitiful...no and i hung up.

about an hour ago...he calls again....ugghhh!!! I am talking to my best friend and he calls in. she said...get it but be firm. He asks if Jake is awake now...(my son sleeps late, but come on he's 4...) so i said..yep wanna talk to him...uh-huh...so i take jacob the phone. he sticks his fingers in his ears..."i don't want to i'm playing" I try again..."this is daddy...he wants to speak to you..." so jay gets it and mumbles "i don't want to talk"

this isn't unusual...jay has never talked and H knows this...so i know that didn't bother him...i said He doesn't want to, you know how he is...he said...yeah. I said...okay then and hung up. My best friend was proud of me!!! did i handle it okay?

I figure as well as my friend does...he is testing the waters...trying to see if i'm "over myself"....see if he will be able to have his family time this evening or not. Nope...not today Mr.

i guess i am sort of in Plan B...its just all so confusing right now. I guess to be in B i really need to get out of here..because he just won't leave me alone. If i am here...he will just come down here. and eventually just be here when i come home, making it difficult to ask him to leave with jay around wanting him to stay...he likes to play that card. so technically i'm not official with the B but i guess in a day or two when i can get my head straight...but don't you think i need to do something...i don't want to cave...i want to save my M.

CJ thank you so much for your kind words...really i don't feel a bit inspiring. i feel like a fool. really a fool. But i believe in M, for better for worse. i told H last night...all i ever wanted my whole life was a family that was together...not broken. Maybe i'll get it one day...

and in answer to your ? about H not seeing it...that's probably my fault too...i've made this so easy for him to do. He hasn't had to work for anything. nothing...hasn't lost a thing. He has it made...wife taking care of his son, fixing his supper, spending time with him, forgiving him and loving him even with his faults, his mom...allowing him to stay in her home...not speaking of his wrongs, giving him money, washing his clothes...and his ho...on the side for his fantasy, sex and what-ever they do...and all this knowing...when and if he decides...he can still come home to his wife who will love him.

yuck! i am the fool!!!! what is wrong with me?

oh well...it's saturday, going to target to spend some of his money...that will make me feel a little better.

and i am okay. i think by him calling it's a good sign he doesn't like this sitch, and he must be worrying...best friend thinks so...but she also says..."carla, gotta put something behind it...go..." so i'm not going to be here this evening for him...but i don't know what to do tomorrow. maybe just take one day at a time until God tells me for sure.

CJ, thanks for checking in on me!!! thanks for the advice!!! I'll keep you posted....

hope your weekend is good for you!!!

oh my gosh...this too funny...Jacob is trying to tape the cat (the fat one...butta) to the floor...he's almost sitting on her...she's so fat...she can't move...she just got him...better go!

see my life isn't all bad...very eventful!!!

Jaysmom

Hi Jaysmom,
Just wanted to let you know that I'm still out here praying for you, hoping for some closure for you & Jay... still can't believe exposure to OWH was such a non-event!

But don't kid yourself that you're in Plan B because you're trying to do some 180 tactics - your WH still has ALL KINDS of contact with you to feed his need for you in his life.

MSA

Mrs...STOW....my profound friend...i thought you were gone for good!!! so happy to hear from you!! i hope you and Mr. STOW are doing well, as well as your girls!!!

Yeah...i know about the Plan B thing... i knew i wasn't "in" it...just thinking very seriously that it is that time...come to that point...that i have to end my Plan A and move toward the B. I haven't done the letter or anything......just my mind telling me this HAS GOT TO STOP, and looks like the only way its gonna is by me removing myself from his life.

He will just freak. After all that i said, my shortness on the phone...God bless him...i didn't get out of the house soon enough. I didn't know he was home...i had started feeling really bad (sick), so i sat down on the bed, called my best friend and told her...how rough i was feeling....and next thing i know he's banging on the back door. didn't call or anything...just shows up. I just can't get away from him.

Not living beside him. I am going to have to move...for anything to affect him aren't I?

he came in...looking all sad and sorry. sorry all right! anyway...i left right away...he kept Jay. I thought well...at least i'm not there with him...and he is having to help me a little with some parenting. i had been gone about an hour or so and my cell rings...he calls saying "jay wants to know when your coming home?"

when i do get home...he and jake have picked up a pizza for supper. H waited on me to eat. then sat on the couch looking through some of our vacation pictures from Disney. sitting there acting all sorry for himself. He did help me out quite a bit though. gave jake a bath for me...put up the groceries. When he got ready to leave he was fussing at jacob to go to bed so he would be a "good boy" in church tomorrow. Jeez. I started to say...listen here...you need to be a "good boy"...but i didn't. He stood at the door for a while...i just acted like "whatever" and he said..."be careful tomorrow" ....

why does he care?

so anyway...i guess i just blew my attempt at keeping distance...i tried honestly. Its just hard, cause i'm not a mean person at all, and because he is always here, and i know it isn't being mean to remove myself from him...i just keep seeing my son...begging and pleading with me to "play" with his dad. that takes me back to my childhood....truthful..not an excuse...just my heart speaking.

guys i hope your not mad at me for not pushing him off the fence...no one wants him down more than i do. I keep praying, keep in my faith and am still listening to God.

I KNOW God is working....sometimes i just can't see what he is doing. He is my peace.

oh goodness it's late....time for "bed-night" as my boy would say.

MSA...so glad your still around...still keeping you in my prayers as well! thanks for checking in and all your kind words and advice!!

CJ-hope you had a good Saturday. Hope things this weekend will go well for you!!

Jaysmom

Hi there,

You will come to a point when you just get the locks changed and stay right there, so he can't come in or be home when you get home. We all have our breaking point - my therapist told me once."Stress is like pushing a three wheeled wheelbarrow - some people can push a huge barrow fuller than anyone else's, but eventually it it too heavy to keep stable and over it goes".

Eventually that WH of yours will push you too far and suddenly plan B will come to you and will be easy. He will be alone and unable to see those he emotionally abuses to feel powerful. No phone calls that are anything else than business like and brief. Everyone will know what he is doing and he will have people to answer to. They will ccomeout of the woodwork - and he will have to face his biggest enemy - himself, the truth and the terribel life he has lead you and your sons.

I too am still around and praying for you - just a bit busy trying to keep my own husband from love busting us out of existance.

So just know that when the time is right you will feel calm and strong and see very clearly exactly what you should do. And then it will work out for you.

When your husband has only her to go to and cannot manipulate you for his own gain and to your detriment - then he will begin to wake up - not before - your compliance to his way of life assists him in staying in his fog. I do understand your fear of taking large steps, but you will do it - you don't realise your own strength yet - not doing what is necessary to save your marriage is like not allowing your son to have a life-saving operation because it will hurt him.

This comparison cleared my thinking when I was feeling unable to take steps.

LindaBB

Ps I love to hear about the cat adventures.

thanks silver for looking in on me too! I just really needed your post today. Heavenly days!!! Today has just kicked my butt.

I know you guys are going to think i am stupid, but i honestly just don't know the answer here. My question is...do I need to force myself to do these things...changing the locks, etc.... force myself into Plan B...OR am i suppose to wait until i really feel like doing those things?

You see...that has been what has confused me the most. I hear you guys...trust me...i do...I know i need to do SOMETHING to get him off the fence, and my best friend, friends and family all say the same as everyone here has. My best friend has told me for months now....LEAVE!!!! it's the only way to get him to realize what he is doing. the only thing that is going to shake him out of this fog and into reality.

so here i am...with the question again. Do i MAKE myself do this? do i force myself to do something i don't feel exactly comfortable doing or feel i will be able to go thru? Or do i wait until i KNOW that i can't take it anymore?

Uhhhh!!! so confusing to me. i really am not blonde. no offense there.

this afternoon he showed up again...coming on in, like he owns the place..well...he does but you know what i mean. I again didn't know he was coming.

He wanted to fix supper...wanted to grill this evening, we had nice weather today and that is one of his favorite "man" things to do. so i was going to run to the store to pick up a couple of things and he decided he was going to look up a few books on amazon...and followed me into the bedroom.

I went into the bathroom to change and he walks over saying "what are you doing?" "do i make you that uncomfortable that you won't change with me anymore?"

OMgosh!!! Where is he from anyway? I was just blown away with that comment i was speechless, and for me thats huge! i just shrugged and changed...he wouldn't leave...all trying to be flirty with me...got himself all worked up...but nothing happened.

I left. that was the first time since Christmas that he has gone there at all with me. the time at Christmas was nothing like today. Today...he was much like his old self in that department. We joked about it but left it alone.

At least i know he still is interested in me.

guys i just wish i knew what to do. I mean i know what to do...just how do i get myself to do it? tell me? this is so very hard. the life saving surgery thing really got me thinking but i just don't know what to do? I know that it will be much easier if i leave...my best friend says...i give him a week....one week of you gone and that will do it?

My fear is that it will take longer and i will get tired of living with my parents. really...that is the hold up guys...the fact that i don't want to leave my home and pile up with my dad. mainly because i don't know how long i will have to stay...and if i get tired of it before he comes around...i don't want to come home with him all..."yeah...i knew she'd come back..hehe"

UUUUUUUUUGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH!!!

i'm such a rambler. rambling woman...hey isn't that a song?

I'm glad you like to hear about the cat adventures!!! Lord, honey...i got a zillion!

I'm just here to tell you all...as you can probably tell...i'm from the DEEP south...and i've got stories that would make your head spin!

the 2 cats we have we refer to as "the girls"...never the cats. they are like our children too. my H (the real man) is the biggest softie that ever lived. rescued these two about a month apart...bottle fed them...now, when people come here...we always get "omgosh...those are the biggest cats i have ever seen"

one of my son's first words...no lie...fat butta (she's the largest...) they are his 2 best friends and he runs them to death in this house...always trying to put "sunscreen" on them...tape them up....cut their hair...you name it...it goes on right here.

one day butta came in with only one side of whiskers. jay had cut one side off. sat there trying to decide should i let him cut the other side so that she looks equal...or just leave it alone. we left her alone.

going to bed now. tomorrow is monday again.

later...JM