Someone suggested I start a thread and just keep updating it, so that the whole story is contained in one thread.

So here is is -

And yes - this is my FOURTH (and yes probably my final) round at this. I could go into a lengthy story - give bunches of stories and lay the blame in several different places. But the reality is - we did a lousey job of meeting each other's emotional needs. 22 years together and lots of hurt and anger.

I ahve been angry for years with him - he just didn't live up to the billing. I expected him to be a strong head of the house kind of man. Instead I got some one like my dad - unsure, all over the place, always uncertain, changing his mind. He tried to make me happy - in a variety of ways. Trying to give me what I thought I wanted. But instead I got angry. Over the years my perception of him changed. I began to see him with different eyes, a sensitive, gifted man, capable of deep feelings and romance. I had about 4 months of deep, beautiful romance. That was in response to my affair and his attempts to woo me back - I guess he plan A'd me and I came running back. This WAS the man I thought he was, suddenly he was strong and determined. I began to love him and respect him and I blossomed - we grew. But I didn't realize that a friendship he had developed was beginning to turn into more.

In Aug. 2002, we went on a real family vacation and htings were weird - I was still going through withdrawl from my EA (turned ONS - BIG MISTAKE). And he was a little distant, while away he got a couple of voice mails from HER, and once I used his phone to make a call and I locked the keypad by accident, I tried typing in his password, and the phone shut down. He was furious with me - I didn't have a clue because I was still in a fog. Once we got home he fessed up - told me he needed to tlak to me - realized he was in over his head. He wanted my help. She had fallen in love with him and he was confused because he felt something for her he had only ever felt for me. I didn't take it well - instead of listening, I went into hurt, angry mode. I didn't plan A him - I BLASTED him. And after a few weeks of it, the stress associated with my recent affair, the fog and with drawl I was still going through, his EA and my emotional needs - I had a complete emotional breakdown and ended up commited to a psych hospital in a catatonic state. He dropped me there and ran.

A few weeks after that episode and our first read through of Surviving an Affair, we ended up in counseling. He suddenly had a lightening fast change of heart - he cut off all contact with her and suddenly we were ok. I was prepared for withdrawl, I supported him, loved him and we did it by the book. And things were good - for about 10 months. And then suddenly, the emotional pull back, the coldness and I knew. Again we went through the turmoil, the heartache, the counseling. Again he had a miraculous return, NO CONTACT again. And through withdrawl we went.

Spring of 2004 we took our kids on a cruise and I was so excited. TIme with my DH, the kids, I was going to love this! Upon boarding the ship my husband had a panic attack, likened it to claustrophobia. I was confused by it but didn't think to much of it. We managed to have a wonderful time - a few problems here and there, I was still struggling with the 2 betrayls and my hurt, anger and insecurities where right under the surface.

2 weeks after our vacation - on Mother's Day weekend, I found out that he was once again in contact with OW. I was devastated. I spent a summer in emotional turmoil, feeling him slip further away. We went back to marriage counseling, and individual counseling with very little help. And then the pressure eased up - a planned trip to a college alumni function that he planned to attend alone (flaunted it in my face even because OW had convinced him to go - she was to see him there!) was no longer as important. Matter of fact, we were back in counseling, and he invited me to go. I met OW - he was appropriate and respectful of my discomfort, and we got through it. Upon returning we went back to our counselr who was surprised to see so much differenc in our attitudes. He had come back - had again gone NC, and he LOVED me! ANd thus began an incredible, fun year - or so I thought. We dated every Freiday night, pursued our motorcycle hobby and bought a new bike, we traveled a little and seem to have fun. The romance wasn't there but he seemed to love me. I thought I needed to give it time.

So here we are again -

But this time things are different. He has changed even more, cold, distant, unreceptive to any PLAN A I could come up with. I spiraled down emotionally, went back to my psychiatrist and started with a new therapist. And slowly I am getting through this. He is currently not in contact with OW (after flying to meet her for the weekend). He refuses to talk about what happenend that weekend (3 weeks ago), it's between him and God he says. He does not feel guilty, shows no remorse, doesn't even seem able to acknowledge that he has caused me hurt. He says he will never tell me what happenend that weekend. I assume the worst (which when I actually said that to him he ssiad - "be careful of the stories you tell yourself". SO who knows.

He moved out a couple weeks ago - to give us space, at the recommendation of my psychiatrist because things were to emotional for me - I have been despondent. Threatened suicide several times - and actually found myself standing in the kitchen with a glass of water and a handful of barbituates just 10 days ago. The ONLY thing that kept me from doing it was the knowledge that my children would find me. I didn't want to do that to them. I have contemplated taking the bike out (it's too big for me to handle - I have my license but I rode a 750, not a big 1400) I thought how ironic - I could crash myself real good - my WH would get the call - I would go out doing one of the things we loved doing together.

I am not htere any longer. I have begun to see in me the strength to get through this - I will be OK. I am stronger for my heartache, I can see that life can and will be good again! Lots of raod to travel before then, but I will get there.

I do not know what the future holds for my WH and I, I don't know that I have anything left to give to him. I am being used up - bankrupt. And the only thing I can really do is love myself and my children. I don't want to think about WH until I am sure what I want. And I don't know right now - I want to be loved, respected, appreciated, romanced - and he has that for only one person - it ain't me he says.

I will have to decide - and it won't be following my heart blindly - I have real desires and wants - I have career that I have put on hold a couple of times for him. NO LONGER - I am ready for MY needs to be met.

ANyway - that's were I am , were I've been and maybe where I'll end it - the marraige that is.

I love him - but I am finally loving myself - MORE.

Jan:

As you read more here and learn more, you'll probably see that words like "suddenly" and "lightning fast" don''t usually coincide with anything long term or meaningful with respect to recovery.

Just my take on things.

You could percieve it differently. Others may have different experiences.

Goodluck,

Lem <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Lem - I KNOW that now - then it seemed like a miracle. If there is anything to be saved in my marriage it will go SLOW this time. I don't know if there is anything left, a reason, a desire, love. I am meeting WH for coffee in an hour - maybe I can find a few pieces that help me with this puzzle. I don't know - but one thing for sure - I am changed - and I will be OK either way.

I have finally found some peace. Sleeping alone no longer reduces me to tears, and I've gotten use to coming home to my children - no husband. I miss him, I love him - but is that enough to base an attempt at reconciliation on? Am I willing to make myself that vulnerable again? Do I want to live life afraid of the next time? Or is the only way to be really free of that fear to say no this time and learn to move on?

I don't know - I ma not there yet. Maybe I'm sick in the head, maybe I am too loyal - Stand By Your Man - or maybe I am so deep into denial. I'll take my time this time - make the decision that's right for me.

What happened with the idea of PLAN B?

Him moving out is a BIG RED FLAG..

Your psychiatrist suggested this?

So how is him moving out supposed to help your marriage?

For those of you who have been telling me to go to plan B - I have. Let's say - it was a traumatic visit last night with my WH and I can't take it anymore.

The hurt and ache are too much. It's time to take care of me.

Are you ready to draft a Plan B letter?

Do you want to talk about what happened last night?

Jan,

It sounds like you're making a bit of progress. Have you read lostintranlation's thread? I think that might be helpful for you. If I remember right, she had a very hard time at the beginning and was having anxiety attacks and having to take meds to cope. She's now got it completely together and her life has turned around. She will be fine whether or not her H ever gets it together. And it looks very likely that the M will soon be in recovery. I just thought that her experience might give you some hope for your own situation.

Good luck.

For those of you who have been telling me to go to plan B - I have. Let's say - it was a traumatic visit last night with my WH and I can't take it anymore.

does he know it was traumatic for you..

be wary of going to plan B in what appears to be some knee jerk reaction to some type of interaction....

what exactly transpired to suddenly change your mind to plan B after yesterday you were adamant that it was not right...

rapid changes usually need tossed around abit..

ARK

Jan - For your own sake please read more on this site. You should not be going to Plan B because someone here told you to. You sound upset and like you made a rash decision. Did you ever Plan A?

Please make sure you are making decisions based on what really is best for you and if you are trying to save your marriage, what is best for that. We don't know you or your situation so only you know when it is right to go to Plan B.

If you really are ready then you need to write a Plan B letter and give it to your WH. Then you do not see him, talk to him, email him, nothing. You set up a mediator if you have kids so he can see them without seeing you. Then you work on yourself. You stop worrying what he is doing and thinking and work on you.

It was my iterpretation that you go into Plan B on a high note. You have been in Plan A looking and acting your best and then wham Plan B so that your WH misses you.

Keep posting!! This place is great, especially if you really are in Plan B.

Well - here's the lastest. AM I in a solid Plan B - probably not, did I do a good plan A, probably not. But here's waht happenend.

My husband and I went out for coffee last night, and while things started out well, they deteriorated quickly. At the end I asked if there was some sort of compromise we could make just to get us refocused and hopefully give each of us some sapce and time. I don't now what I was looking for - just a meeting halfway on something - or even 25% from him and 75% from me. He got this horrible, hurt sick look on his face and then got up and walked out. As I followed him out very confused, he told me - don't call me - I won't answer tonight we'll talk tomorrow.

I came home - couldn't sleep at all. Was up an down all night. SO I composed an email - very simple - I am really hurting, and everytime we talk lately I get hurt more. I have to protect myself and the love I still have for him and take care of me right now. I asked for no contact, told him I still cared - but I needed some time. I sent it this morning early.

He called me at work about 9:00 - first - he hasn't d
called me at work in over a month - second - since I had just asked for no contact I was confused. He was very gentle, told me he had composed a letter and emailed it to me. When I asked him if it was something that was going to hurt me - he chuckled and said I don't know Jan. So sitting there at my station in front of my computer I pulled up my email and began to read the letter - after the first two paragraphs I fell apart. In front of the doctors, my fellow nurses adn even a few patients. I began to shake and sob, he started to yell at me on the phone, saying someting like - what kind of game are you playing, good grief why did I have to read it then, he'd meant for me to read it when I was with a support person and at home. I hung up on him.

My coworkers had to pick me up, our social worked was called into to assess me, the doctors - oncologists - were out of their field. Someone wanted to take me to the ER, my nurse manager was trying to keep me oriented, and then she got angry with my husband - which she NEVER gets angry. She begged me to hold myself together, they needed me, my patients needed me - I was so important to them. I finally managed to get myself together. And I took a short leave to get myself organized.

I orginally called my folks in Michigan and told them I was coming home with the kids for a few days. Ny whole family is home this week for the holidays and I just wanted to get there. And then I called my MIL and asked her to tell WH that I was heading home and taking the kids, I'd be back by Tuesday becasue I promised to be at work on Wednesday, and I have an IC appt that night. When I told my MIL that I didn't know how to do this trip - I've never driven the 18 hours from Mass to MI by myself, she started to yell at me, telling me I was running away from the emotions, that I needed to stop and face them, that I was in no shape emotionally and or physically to make the trip. She NEVER raises her voice - NEVER, she is one fo the calmest spirits I know. So I listened - and she was right. I was going to put myself and the kids in harms way and what would happen to me if I got stuck in Buffalo in the cold and snow and had a breakdown (emotional) that is. Where would my support system be then. I finally got off the phone and collapsed on my bed to sleep. WH called - twice I think - I wasn't thinking to clearly and I was a wreck. I finally asked him why he sent me that letter and called me at work after I had asked him to not contact me. He said he didn't think I meant it and had he known he would not have sent it. Whatever that means -

SO at the end he yelled at me - if you WANT NO CONTACT FINE - THAT'S WHAT YOU'LL HAVE and hung up.

I am exhausted - feel like I have been swimming for hours against the tide. My body physically aches and I am so tired.

I know I'll be ok - I am stronger than I ahve ever been and I have three precious children who love me and will need me even more.

Here's the letter -

Dear Jan,

No matter how much therapy, some scars never heal completely. You know that
from your nursing.

I will struggle yet a while to describe in words what happened with me last
night. Words like empty, cold, lost, shock (as in how you feel after an
injury) come to mind. A part of me couldn't believe you could possibly use
the word "compromise", compromise about what? After all the grasping and
anger and hurt, you would settle for some one quarter version of made up
love again???? No Jan, can't do that, can't play that game with myself ever
again. Those compromises would kill my spirit, as you could see last night,
those kinds of compromises have really killed off a piece of me already. I
don't "love" ANYBODY so much that I would kill off my spirit for them. I've
already tried that with you and I'm sorry but no person is worth THAT price.
I can deal with living alone and struggling through the finances for a
while. I will make that trade any day over pretending to love you one more
day. Besides, YOU DESERVE BETTER THAN THAT. Will "better than that" land in
your lap overnight?? No, it won't, but at the same time, see your way
through the healing process you have begun and YOUR spirit will draw someone
in who can love you well and get you through your masters, etc., etc.

I don't want to be that person Jan. I have told you several times and
through it all the WANT has not changed a bit. I want a quiet place where I
can think and work and write and get things done and no matter how I look at
it, you don't "belong" there. In the long run I want to be up in the
mountains somewhere. After all, writers don't need much community in order
to write. You on the other hand need to be in and around a place like Fall
River so that you can become that nurse/administrator that you ought to
become. And if that's not the best path then follow a better path. I will
always remember Oceanwood though, the way you stepped in and made the place
go despite Steve's limitations. I know that put a strain on you because you
didn't understand what was going on and you were frustrated by the situation
but you did a great job and with some talented people around you, you could
accomplish a whole lot more in a real administrative setting.

I will even cheer you on Jan, but from afar. I can be a friend, if you will
let that happen and if you will let the romance and glitter go out of our
interactions. You make me uncomfortable when you look at me that way. I will
help with kids and all the rest. I don't want to be a deadbeat. I only want
to rest and work on my own.

As for Susan, I will never try to explain my "reasons" for going down to
Gadsden, except to say that it was something I HAD to do. You saw me the day
we talked about that trip. You saw I had something burning inside of me that
needed doing. YOU asked the question, Jan. Remember? I did not raise the
issue (at least not out loud), you did.

I will never regret that decision to go. NO ONE will EVER make me feel
guilty or ashamed. I did the thing that I MOST needed to do for myself, and
I don't think I had ever really done that before. The time had come for me
to solidify MY--SELF, my real identity as a heart and soul which could have
a dream, a deep important dream and despite the "obstacles" (real or
imagined), pursue and fulfill the dream. I had ALWAYS hesitated, always
fallen back, always lost out to some fear or imagined limitation. Now I
finally know that I do not have to live that way any longer.

What "went on" down there in Gadsden does not matter Jan. It may take you a
while to come to that realization but I did not go there to run away, I did
not go there to lose myself in some other woman, I did not go there to lash
out at you, I did not go there to have an affair, I did not go there to ask
her to leave her husband (and I will NEVER ask ANYONE that question, I don't
care who they are or what the "circumstances" I will never ask anyone to
leave a marriage for me, I will never become that self-important). I
fulfilled a deep inner promise. That's all I will ever say about it, because
that promise belongs to me and me alone and no, you HAVE NO RIGHT IN THIS
WORLD (NOR DOES ANYONE ELSE HAVE THE RIGHT) to call me on the carpet for
that choice. As I have already said, I will take that choice right up to the
judgment seat of God and if he sends me to "******" for it, so be it, but no
one in THIS world gets to judge me on that decision, no one.

I do not know how "best" to end this piece of correspondence. My stream of
thought has pretty much ended. You will either accept what I have to say and
begin to pursue your own path or you won't. I have no way to control that
decision and I won't try to control it. You need to figure this stuff out
for yourself. Our marriage has short-circuited your individuality AT LEAST
as much as it has short-circuited mine (maybe a lot more in some respects).
Hopefully my absence will make room for your spirit to grow, if YOU will let
it grow. I think that process has already begun and your self-confidence
will continue to build and progress will come more quickly as time goes
along.

I wish you well Jan. I really do. I wish you independence and health in your
spirit, so that you and I can begin to live our lives as truly separate
people and finally begin to fulfill the promise that has lain dormant in
each us these many years. We have held each other back over and over again.

I love you Jan, though not as a lover and pursuer of your body, and not as a
romancer of your spirit and heart. Instead as a caring friend who will try
to help out as best he can with kids and finances and such. Those other
things will need to come from somewhere else and if you can find a bit of
patience within yourself, those things will come along just beautifully for
you. I have no doubt whatsoever.

Be well Jan, be well. Find the path that God truly intends and follow it
fully. Do that and life will get much richer and fuller than you have ever
known before.

Most most most sincerely,

Bill

What an incredibly well-written justification for completely selfish behavior. "I want to do what pleases me without regard for you or anyone else." He's right about one thing, though. The OW is not the problem -- is she ever? He's not self-important enough to ask OW to leave her marriage, but he's self-important enough to decide for his own self-fulfillment to leave his own marriage. I also love that part of his justification is that the marriage has "short-circuited" your individuality, so he's doing this for your own good as well. Unbelievable. You could put this whole letter in the thread on fog talk except that it seems to extend beyond the fog of an affair.

Cherished

What a load of crap! Cherished is right. This goes beyond the “fog” of a WS. I haven’t seen pseudo intellectual BS piled that deep since the 60s. Selfish doesn't begin to describe him. Stir in egotistical and egocentric and you’re getting closer--but I don’t think the English language has the flexibility to describe this, so-called, man. He has no responsibilities to you, eh? No one can make him explain, huh?

He didn’t even mention the children until the end…and then he’s awfully blasé about it. He wants, as a friend, to "help out" with them. What a man. I personally don’t see any hope for this guy. He’s way too stuck on himself. But hope springs eternal, as they say.

Jan, you say you’re in Plan B. Good. Stay there. Quit reacting to him, Jan. He doesn’t have your best interests, or your children’s interests, at heart anymore. You’re letting him dictate how you feel and what you do. Don’t let him do that. He’ll drive you insane if you let him. Let him communicate with you through a third party and don’t accept any more letters or phone calls.

Plan B is about protecting yourself. Do that. Go further. He needs to be brought up against some harsh realities and I think your attorney filing for spousal and child support might just begin the process. File for legal separation if that’s possible in your state. It’s not irreversible and you can drop/revise it later if you want.

Also, maybe you shouldn’t be driving to Michigan at this time of year, but how about Mom or someone else coming out to visit you?

My thoughts are with you, lady. Hang in there.

Good grief.

If this does not convince you to go dark, I don't know what will.

PLEASE go read up on Plan B. Listen to Mel and the others. Do what they tell you . You deserve better than this . . .ok, I will refrain from name calling.

Honey, I don't see him as doing anything but justifiy, justify, justify.

I'm curious as to what he does for a living. He's extremely eloquant as he shovels manure.

Dear Moveforward,

My husband is a would be writer, he writes poetry and short stories and he's quite good. His real job is as a funeral direcotr in a large family (his) owned business. He is the general manager/vice-president, of ten funeral homes. He is a past president of his state prof oganization, and could be president of the national organization if he wanted to be. He lacks focus, has trouble making decisions, speaks well - but often with no conviction. Selfish, has always lived above his means, and has expected compromise after compromise. I gave up my career and stayed home with the kids so he could do his thing, for years he has ignored being a father, hasn't appreciated me. tried to meet my emotional needs, etc. We will have to file for bankrupcy inorder to get out from under the debt. The boat he had to have, the motorcycle, the new Ford Expedition he said we needed to pull the motorcycle trailer (which is in my name - as is the motorcycle I think...hmmmmm). So now I have this huge vehicle which he tells me I won't get the money out of it if I sell it. He reminded me my cell phone is in his name - only because he did it as a surprise several years ago. I need a new phone because the key pad isn't working right - but HE has to do it. I don't want to lose my number (it's a cool one - and he picked it out - too many people know it because it's so easy to remember). Oh and I'll probably lose the vanity plate on my truck - it's our last name and has been in the family forever.

And while I am describing him - I can't remember why I feel any love for him...

Longhorn -

By the way - what and where is a longhorn?

Anyway - I am not driving to Michigan. I will stay here and go see my shrink tomorrow - although despite my husband's best efforts - I am not insane! My sister is coming out next week for awhile.

I am not alone - my kids are with me and i will plan a weekend that will be fun for them.

OK. Jan...

Which PLAN do you want to work on?

PLAN A or PLAN B...

I think it's important for you to MAKE A PLAN..

We can help you...

Right now it sounds like you are treading water...

You are right. You are not doing PLAN A or PLAN B...

PLAN B does not involve only you telling him that you want No Contact with him. All pieces of the PLAN need to be in place. The PLAN B LETTER...ways for him not to reach you..financial protection for yourself and kids..

It sounds like you need to get stronger. That can be your initial plan..work on yourself...

What do you want to do?

I need to work on getting stronger - I was at one time a real go getter, leader, organized and in control.

After 22 years of knowing him I have really lost me - and I suspect that the depression I have felt is really from that loss.

No plan B letter yet - I am not well enough read on it. And for now I just want a break from him - his constant pushing is driving me crazy.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

A longhorn is more correctly known as a longhorn steer or cow. It's a breed of cattle that is native, so far as I know, to Texas though they've wandered hither and yon through the years. They grew up wild in the "Big Thicket" area of south central Texas before and during the Civil War and they were the cattle driven up the trails to the railheads in such places as Dodge City and Abilene, Kansas back in the days of Wyatt Earp and all those guys. Longhorns are big, mean, and have horns that can measure nine or ten feet from tip to tip. That goes for steers and cows.

My ex-wife once referred to me as having a "bull in a china shop" mentality, and I'm an avid fan of the University of Texas "Longhorn" football team. So when I was picking a screen name, it was a natural. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

********

I'm glad your sister will be coming for a visit. Having family around can mean all the difference in the world.

Hang tough, lady. We're all thinking of you.

Jan:

I'm having a different opinion of maybe some others..

I don't think you are ready for PLAN B..

Working on yourself is PLAN A..

The key is to FOCUS ON YOURSELF and not ON HIM...

Making yourself the BEST JAN POSSIBLE..

He has broken you down..

I think her WH deserves exactly what he has asked for.

Jan, o Jan, give it to him. Plan A is for ending an affair. This man is not in love with anyone but himself. And I laughed out loud at his "I will NEVER be that self important" bwahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!