I'm not sure it’s relevant whether he's with the OW in a resort in the Pocono’s or camping beside a frozen stream in the Tennessee mountains. The relevant factor is that he’s not where he’s supposed to be and that’s in his home with his wife and children. Since he isn’t, I think it doesn’t matter where he is or who's with him.

It's hard to explain to the kids their Dad isn't a responsible adult anymore and I don't have any glib words about what to say to them. Maybe just tell them the facts as you've discovered them?

Jan, I can't help but feel you should assume he won’t meet any of his obligations ever again. Nothing of what you’ve written over the past few days indicates he has any sense of responsibility for anything or anyone except himself anymore. If he does on a rare occasion come through on an appointment or with support, etc., I’d view it as a nice surprise and get on with expecting nothing from him.

Personally, I still think you need to see an attorney just as soon as you can.

Update -

I have settled into a good routine. I am dealing with the emotions and the anger much better. WH's trip this past weekend took it's toll on me, but through it I did find some peace. I had one BAD backwards step. I called OWH alst night to be sure she was home this weekend. He got angry this time - told me to keep out of their business. SHE called me at 12:30 am this morning very angry, telling me she has decided to call my WH everytime I call her husband. Reminding me that tha's not what I want. And then she said if I keep calling, her husband will file a restraining order (I've called him a total of 5 times - each time becasue I ahd proof of an ongoing affair). And then she asked if I was trying to get her divorced. Becasue the first thing she would do would be to call my WH and join him here. It was all sureal. And since it was so early in the morning and I was sedated (I take a sleeping pill right now, otherwise I don't sleep) she accused me of boing on drugs cause I sounded wierd. Drugs - yeah right. I vowed after that phone call to not communicate anymore with them. She's gettting rattled and I don't need her coming after me. But I guess I saw a little bit of her real nature. I knew she was too good to be true.

I have taken some measures to discontinue contact with them. I know whay I do it - but now I need to figure out a way to meet that need elsewhere. I guess you can call it a sign of my desperation. But enough - it only robs me of my peace and does nothing for my relationship.

Jan,
I ended up with a harassment order from OW. And then you know what she did -- she called my H to see how he was doing. She knew I couldn't call her H anymore.

OW is not the problem. OWH is not the problem. YOU are the problem. YOU are not facing the fact that your H is showing incredible selfishness. It doesn't matter he is with OW or not.

After the affair was exposed, a friend of mine said that I should separate from him and only let him come back if he came back groveling. I didn't understand at the time what she was saying. Now I do.

You are not his concern at this point in time. He is his concern. The only way your M will work is if he makes decisions with your best interest in mind. He's a long way from doing that. The best thing you can do now is get away from him and stay away from him.

A priest said to me once, "He can change. You can't change him." Pretty simple, isn't it? Your job is not to keep him from having an affair or continuing an affair. That's his job. He's not willing to do that. All you can do is protect yourself and your children until and unless he decides there are people out there other than him who deserve care and respect.

Cherished

Thanks Cherished -

You are right - I AM my worst problem. It has been a true struggle to separate myself from him. I ahve begun to see that my relationship with him has been dysfunctional for along time. I have looked to him for EVERYTHING - support, reassurance, comfort, help in bad times, and the list goes on. I thought that's what a marriage was - but now through some soul searching and meditation, and prayer (lots of prayer!) I am beginning to see that I have put my trusT in WH, have relied on him for things I should have found in myself, and I expected him to heal all my hurts of the last several years. That healing has to come from within me. I have been doing real "soul" work these last few days and I am beginning to feel whole again. And I have been able to forgive myself fo the hurts I have caused in this relationship - especially my own A.

Last night was a temporary meltdown of my resolve, and the trigger that caused it was so mild - but none the less - I acted on it. I have a plan worked out to help me deal with this.

Jan,
That IS what marriage is about. Pretend he is in a coma. He isn't there for you. Based on that letter, he may never be. Then go on with life.
Cherished

DOING GREAT!!!

And I really mean great. The last few days I kind of "found" myself. NO tears, lots of laughter and great fun with my kids. They are truly a blessing and I am getting to know them again. We have been watching movies, popping popcorn, playing board games. AND I got them all excited about CLEANING and we whipped our basement rec room into order!

I am sleeping again, eating a little better, spending time in prayer and devotion. I ahve been getting up earlier so I have a few monutes to myself before I wake the kids for school. I feel organized and in control again.

My coworkers couldn't believe the change, they asked right away if anything was "different" and I said YES - ME!! My patients even noticed it - one of known for a long time said to me - It's good to have you back (didn't realize how far away I had gotten).

I got back into one of my hobbies last night - one I put away a couple years ago because WH commented that he hated spending time with me when I was so absorbed by it. I pulled out a half finished project and got working on it.

And I found some peace - real peace. The kind that says - yes I miss my WH - but I will be ok regardless of what comes down the road. I feel good about myself again - and I am not going to let anyone rob me of that again.

Good for you, Jan. I'm not terribly religious, but I am a firm believer God doesn't give us more than we can bear. It just seems like it beforehand. I saw something else the other day to the effect that adversity doesn’t build character--adversity reveals character. What you are discovering inside you has been there all along. It just needed to be released.

It’s so sad your husband isn’t there to see it but, with respect, I suspect he would feel threatened by it.

Wait a minute. You got three boys, mid-teens and under, to be enthusiastic about cleaning? Wow! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hang in there, lady.

Thanks Longhorn

For the encouragement! I haven't felt this "good" and motivated in a few years (actually a lot of years). Which shows you how much I have relied on my WH. But over the last few days I have seen growth and peace, and I am handling what life has thrown me!! I spoke to my MIL today who was so proud of where I am. What a change she has seen. My WH will see the changes soon enough. We have a joint marriage counseling appointment on Friday.

I am still committed to my marriage and my WH - but until he returns from outerspace, I will be OK! But one thing to know - my WH is not intimidated by this - this is who I am - this is the woman he met 22 years ago who had it together, running a summer camp, on academic scholarship to nursing school. He likes my strong independent spirit. I just lost that part of me in the role of wife and mother. That girl has been gone for years - well I found her again - And it feels GOOD!!! If I had to choose between ME and him - I would choose me!! I like this person - no fears, no insecurities, and on top of things.

Oh and I actually got asked out by the son of a patient today - I said no - don't want to mix that in there - but also not interested in dating. While there's any hope for my marriage I will stay faithful. But it felt good to have someone recognize ME!!!

Thanks again - Jan

OMG OMG OMG - I would not have read your thread if you hadn't posted on mine and I am so glad you did... You are AWESOME!!!! I am totally feeling you right now!!! Every word you have written is exactly what I have been feeling!!!

"I am beginning to see that I have put my trusT in WH, have relied on him for things I should have found in myself, and I expected him to heal all my hurts of the last several years. That healing has to come from within me. I have been doing real "soul" work these last few days and I am beginning to feel whole again. And I have been able to forgive myself fo the hurts I have caused in this relationship"

Love the above quote - I feel the same way. It is so amazing to find so many people who have been through what we think is only happening to us...

Hang in there. DO YOU FIRST!!! Email me if you ever want to talk!!! LOVE MB!!!!

Alison

Jan, I totall forgot to mention. My mom goes to St. Annes in Fall River... Very coincidental. She told her nurse about my predicament and her nurse told her about, "surviving the affair"... Small world. Hang in, stay strong, and DO YOU!!!!

Another GREAT day!! I have't felt this relaxed at peaceful in along time. Spoke with WH last night - he could n't believe how well I was doing. The this morning when he picked up DD for school he came in (something he has not been allowed to do for awhile now). He was pleasant, I gave him a great big smile, gave my DD a hug and kiss, and then he said It's good to see you looking well again. I smiled again - told him have a nice day and I guess we'll talk tomorrow in our MC appointment. Then I turned aound and walked out of the room.

Our conversation last night was good - I got tos talk about ME - wherer I am and what I am feeling. He listened. Didn't say to much but he was a lot more pleasnat then in previous conversations.

Anyway - may not mean a thing - after all - he is still and alien in my husband's suits!

Blessings - Jan

Well today is the day - he scheduled it and I agreed to go. I am not sure what the goal is. Had a long talk by phone last night. And as usual I ended up becoming upset and he got really umcomfortable.

Back to working on me. What do I want.

This is so complicated. I want co many things for myself. Good things, peace, happiness, independence, things I have started to find and feel good. But I also want my marriage restored, or should I say rebuilt. But as he reminded me it takes two people and we don't have that. So what do I do - move on, let go, grieve and heal?

I still don't want to accept that it's over. I still love him - but as he reminded me last night waht ever I feel - he doesn't feel it as love. He talked about hurts last night and said those won't go away. What do you say to that.

I encouraged him to come here MB. He was asking about Dr. Harley's take on things. So maybe he'll come visit.

Have a great day all - Jan

It may help to know that the Ws can't see or think straight. Therefore, you don't want him making life changing decisions for anyone, not even himself. Don't engage in such discussions. Go to the MC and listen to what is being said. speak your peace when asked but mostly go and let the Ws or H unload. Expect crap to come spewing out but make sure your MC is versed in MB principals or won't be swayed by some smooth talkin' WS.

L.

I am exhausted - feeling so alone. The counseling appt. happenend - and we didn't get anywhere. It was what happened afterwards that was helpful. I saw some things about myself that have been hard to see, adn I had a good (verses bad love busting) conversation with WH. All it really changes is the level of understanding we have for each other right now. I do still care deeply for him, but I hate the man he is right now. He finally saw and excepted his par tin the pain I have been feeling. I think he understands me a bit more. And I know I understand him a little better as well.

So I am emotionally spent - so tired I can hardly type and it's not even 7:30 pm. I really need to go to bed.

When I got home a short time ago my kids were watching a movie, my youngest son said out loud - "I wish Daddy was here to watch it too. It's your (meaning me - mom) fault that Daddy isn't here." And thus it begins -

Wow Jan! I've just read this thread without drawing breath. Are we married to the same person? That letter he sent you could have been written by my WH. AND they share the same job. (A job which, incidentally, has much to answer for, I think.)

OK all -

Is this normal?

WH has been so hurtful of late, listening, talking, communicating then saying he doesn't want that role anymore. Then fills in with all the negative stuff, he faked affection for me, wanted to end the marriage long time ago, never had the nerve or self esteem, what ever...

All I know is it hurt - again. So no angry outbursts, no slefish demands. I did call and leave a voice mail saying I had gotten his email and would like to talk to him. But now - I just don't know anymore.

I have spent some time the last few days beginning to accept the idea of divorce - since he is pushing this - I don't love you, never did, want to live alone, much happier this way, etc.

So I did waht he asked - lived with the idea of being divorced - and I am OK. At peace I guess. I want to reconcile my marriage, really I do - but I don't want this hurt anymore. The "dumping" he keeps doing on me when I think I am making some progress. When I start to feel good, have a minor or major breakthrough, finally communicate with him - he shuts me off, says awful things, hurts me and tells me to go elsewhere.

So I am ready to just step back - not have anything to do with him - protect myself and what ever love is left (which ain't much!).

Here is the email that he sent me a little while ago -


"I suppose I mean the accumulated conversations of weeks, perhaps years. I'm tired of talking Jan. I've exhausted myself in trying to "listen", trying to "help", trying to "counsel", trying to "love", trying to understand, solve problems, fix things, compromise, lose myself, fake my affections, bury the hurts, kill off my interests and loves, give you what you want, tired of trying to figure out who you are because I don't understand you. I'm tired of your hurt. Whether it's my fault or 65 other people's fault, I don't want to deal with it any more. You can deal with it without me. I have nothing left to offer.

Sorry, but that's "BT" that's the real me. At some level, in some way, I've wanted off this merry-go-round for a long time, only I lacked the heart to strike out on my own. I don't regret my choices Jan. I like this separation and I don't see that changing. Life's too short and I cannot live this fake life in KJBB HJUGG any more. It does nothing for me and by extension it does nothing for you either.

Please stop looking for profundities from me. I don't think I have any more
left."


I have not responded to the email. I did try to call him and left a voice mail saying I would like to talk about this. But he has not - and I am sure will not respond.

I am tired of his selfish, immature high school behavior. This is real life - with kids, responsibilities, marriage committment, the works. This not the man I married. Who is this monster?

Huh???? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> Did I read that right?

Well Jan, I must say...this "one" statement is pretty dang telling about you and your "psyche".

I don't know what to say really about this. I admittedly haven't read the responses you got to this one, but I can probably guess... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

In thinking about this I don't think there is any viable reason to try and make you "see it" differently here.

I wish ya the best in this new year.

Lem <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

P.S. Did you see my response to your book suggestions?

Yes - Lem - I did see your response about the book. I think we already own it - probably sitting in WH's study right now.

As for OW - that was my stupidity. Way past that now - Allowed myself to see her for what she is. A snake! I have always tried to see the good in people. To a fault - yes. Even my WH - no matter what he has done to me int he past I ahve always forgiven and tried harder to please. So yes - my psyche is a mess. Has been for years and WH has contributed to it and I never wanted to believe any of it.

Now I am just tired of the hurt, tired of feeling less than myself when I talk with him, tired of listening to his justifications and "needs".

I am ready to move on - I don't know that I want this marriage anymore. It has cost "ME" to much already.

Well, I can't give you "marriage" advice, but I can advise you to do two things.

1. Go to the study and retrieve that book and start reading tonight.

2. STOP assigning the outcomes of YOUR LIFE (i.e psyche a mess because of your husband) to someone else.

The concept of that book is taking 100% RESPONSIBILITY for your life.

Do this today.

Why in the world would you go on living one more second NOT taking complete responsibility for your life.

I almost want to vomit when people are like "cultists" preaching the word of someone or doing things devoid of their own thought because someone "told them to", so I apologize if I come accross this way...

The book makes so much sense (to me at least) it is scary.

With regards to your marriage, I once again admit that I haven't kept up with your story.

I hate to say that it seems like "not much has changed", but I say that with the caveat that I have not kept up.

Your more likely to benefit from me encouraging you to read the book than from me trying to give you "marriage" advice... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

LM

Lem -

I do not want marriage advice. It is what it is and I can do no more at this point. My WH has made some choices and I am making some as well.

What I want most right now is some insight into me. I will so this on my own, through reading, through meditation, through whatever means it takes. But I need to find MY life again, I totally LOST myself in this marriage. I am just beginning to sort it out. Get my own head out of the fog!

Jan