OK..a few have asked for my story...this is one of the longest posts I have seen...this will take a LOT of time to read....
At the request of some members here is my story.
My younger brother I was brought up by a single, Italian woman that is and always was passive aggressive, domineering, and extremely manipulative. My father left when I was 6 years old. He worked out of town and my mother was a WW. My mother used my brother and me as weapons with my father who always told me “Son, someday you will understand (and when I hear that song by CCR I always think of my father). My father moved 140 miles away due to my mothers constant badgering of him. 4 years after my father left he married a woman that was a family friend. She had two sons and had divorced her abusive husband before I met her. My mother insisted they had an affair, always talked bad about her, my father and their relationship. My mother blamed her for their divorce. That certainly was not reality but how she portrayed it. My mother was pure evil. Violent, would say things that are not repeatable. She would spend money frivolously. We were poor. She was a mean woman. She was a liar. She talked badly about everyone especially the people who meant the most to me, my grandparents and my father. My father and I always had a different relationship in spite of my mother. He was honest with me almost to a fault. We were friends. We still are.
As a child I had little experience with affection. I only saw it with my grandparents (maternal). I do not ever recall hugs or affection. I spent the majority of my teenage years alone, in solitude. I loved listening to music and could relate to many of the songs that were written. I was a dark individual. I hated my mother who had once tried to choke me when I tried to get away from one of her tantrums. I considered suicide as revenge. I had serious weight issues. Between Thanksgiving and New Years during my sophomore year in high school I went from 190 to 215 pounds!! By spring it was about 240!! I had gone from overweight to severely obese. Then…I liked a girl…and by the end of the summer I was 170 pounds, I had anorexia. Upon my return to school that fall I had decided that people were jerks. Girls who once thought I was gross now wanted to date. I was a jerk, arrogant and mean to the girls that were once mean to me…I was becoming like my mother. She took me to counseling but I hated it. I just played with them. I thought they were judgmental jerks…By the time I was 18 I met and dated women who were much older than I, early 30’s, many divorced, none married. They taught me much and I became very educated in how to manipulate a woman’s emotional needs in order to meet mine. But they also taught me about myself. I did not like to be caressed, have my hair touched, I could not sleep with anyone. I did not want to be that close. My only girlfriend was lair who cheated on me all the time and I blamed myself because I took her for granted. I joined the Marines when I found out she lied to me about US going away to school…she was going away, had registered without even bringing that school up to me! I found out from her best friend! I lived in California, dated many…I was a typical “player” in his early 20’s…then I got out of active duty and went to college.
I met her on the second day of college when I was registering. She was with two friends who were as equally attractive as her. I promised my roommate that one of them would be my wife (I completely forgot that encounter, he reminded me on my wedding day). I knew who she was but I did not introduce myself. As president of the sisters of the fraternity I pledged she had second “pick” of the pledges as a little brother and she picked me! We quickly became buddies but nothing romantic until after pledging was over…we were smoking hot couple...spent most of the next 6 months in bed…the first person I could actually sleep with…she was the one!!! When school ended she was transferring to a nearby school and going home (50 miles from me)...I was terrified of losing her so at 21 (she was 18) I took all $700 I had and bought her a ring. As I proposed (telling her how scared I was) she began to cry, thinking we were breaking up!
We were passionate, stubborn and young. She was very insecure about me. Always thought I was cheating on her…due to my only other experience I loathed cheaters and it was not an option…but…..after a drunken brawl, in which she broke my nose, trashed my room and embarrassed me I broke up with her, NC..and proceeded to seal the deal by bedding down one of the campus slobs…
This was life changing….I knew I screwed up…I hated myself…and swore it would not happen again, I decided to try and work things out with her…except…when she asked me if I cheated on her…I said no…and continued to lie for years about it..but was it a lie?...We broke up, but I FELT like I lied…she knew..the entire school community told her..it was no secret, I was angry and did not care…we picked up right where we left off….She was insecure and I used it to manipulate her. I was selfish. I chose many things over her, friends, activities, etc. I was the type if you demanded I NOT do something I did it in spite. Then my weight was an issue. Not to her but me. I once again ballooned up to 250 pounds…This was the result of pretty heavy substance abuse, a product of the early and late 80’s I partook in significant excesses, some that were very criminal and very addictive. I quit, cold turkey for various reasons but mainly because I did not like what she became while under the influence and frankly the fun was gone. This was also a huge undertaking on my part. It showed my resolve and strength. She was not as strong as I and would occasionally falter.
We moved to here home town after college and lived with her parents. Here began the problems. Because we lived with her parents there was little SF for a year. We had separate rooms, this after living together at school for two years! I was dying, she was OK. SF was my only outlet for affection and it was a big EN for me. In hindsight this was when we should have communicated. We did not. We married and moved into an old farm house. We were poor yet happy. She was a CPA who was an auditor that traveled. When I found out she was scheduled to be in Barbados for our first anniversary I demanded that she not go, I was insecure and did not know why. When she would not (and in reality I would find out later) and could not change her schedule I refused to pick her up from the airport which was our anniversary. I went to a resort town and partied with my friends. At 3:00 AM, while at breakfast with my friends (and some young women who thought I was single) I announced I was going home to my wife, and I drove home. I did not do anything with any of the women present, not even imply I was single…I must have acted it.
During these early years I began hunting deer. It was a way for me to get my “alone time”. I became obsessed with it, I asked her to come with me but she had no interest. So in the fall of the year I was gone every weekend to our camp hunting. She began to hate it. In hindsight this was a huge mistake.
When first married we struggled with finances but considered ourselves happy. I went back to school and did great achieving honors. I took a job with a huge accounting firm and was on my way. She had already been a CPA for 4 years at a smaller localized firm. We made a career choice for me and I knew I would have very long hours and be traveling extensively. I was older (27) than most staff beginning their careers (22- 23). We worked and played very hard. I spent most of my time at resorts with young, attractive women. She became incredibly insecure. It was the 90’s and work and careers were very important. I never as much as even considered having any inappropriate relations with staff, but she could not buy it. Stuff did go on between staff but I was a married man and they knew it. I changed little of my habits, in the fall she would see me on Sunday nights, before I went back out of town. When I would come home she would want to go out…I wanted to stay home, I ate out all week! I had issues sleeping and was becoming an alcoholic. I could not sleep without drinking. She was convinced I was leaving her soon, was having multiple affairs, we fought a lot.
Then she got pregnant. I found out later it was because she did not want me to leave. We bought an old farmhouse near her parent’s home. During her pregnancy I was a drunk. I was scared. I still do not know why. We went through normal life events but I was still “on my own”. We grew closer when we both became unemployed due to the recession in the early 90’s However, I still did whatever I wanted. The only thing I changed was I did not go out of town every weekend during hunting season. She got pregnant for our second child quickly. It was awful. Oldest son was a terror, I was working a lot and offered little support for her emotionally.
She began a new job at a local company very close to home. She was very overqualified but the company showed promise. The company grew quickly but when they had company functions I noticed that the employees were all in their late 20’s and very attractive blonde women. I also noticed that everybody hugged. Being the person I am I did not get it. She traveled a few times a year to conventions and seminars, occasionally she would go out to a dinner in town. Having done these types of things for years I thought nothing of it.
Over a couple of years she changed her hair color to auburn, lost weight (she was always thin) and began exercising. She pierced her belly button. It was weird to me.
In July 1998 I took my son to Florida where my mother lived so he could go to Daytona with me to watch the NASCAR cars he loved. However, there were horrible firs all around us and it was terrible. She was upset because she was not there. When we came back they rescheduled the race and anted to take the whole family. She did not think it was a good idea to take a 2 and 5 year old in October plus she had a conference in Las Vegas to go to. She told me she had to go to a class earlier than everyone else. I became suspicious when she forwarded me all the information about the class. She hated traveling alone. I went to Florida with oldest son on Thursday morning, she flew to Vegas that night. The youngest stayed with grandma and grandpa. I took oldest to track on Friday and stayed into the night to watch them practice racing at night which had never been done there before. It was a historic night! He was adorable. I have awesome video of him. The next day by 1:00PM I still had not heard from his mother which was very unlike her. I actually had to wait from leaving because she did not call. My mother started into the “what is she up to”…when she finally called I went ballistic…asking who it was, etc. She got upset and told me she was very busy working, that I knew how busy she was, yada..yada..I refused to let her speak to son…I reminded her that the convention started the next day! She was furious with me, told me she would never forgive me.
During the next year we had serious issues. She was violent, drinking heavily. Was moody, depressed. I took off my wedding band and threw it in the yard telling her I “would wear it when I had a wife”…it was right after I had spent the most money in my life on a 10th anniversary ring for her.
In August of 1999 while upstairs cleaning she called me into our son’s room and told me” I want a divorce”….I was floored. I got the I love you but…speech…I asked who it was…and she denied it. Like everything else in my life I ran away to my fathers for a week. I was devastated. I could not understand it. I begged, pleaded, nothing. I reminded her how thing shad actually seemed better, we had done a lot together that summer, more than ever. She said she wasn’t happy for years….At one point, with my children playing in the hall way I say in my bedroom with the door locked with my rifle in my mouth. I could not believe it.
She had dedicated her life to the boys and the house, I was not a handy man at all. It was around this time that a coworker began to stop over to see us. He was married, young, and kind of odd. His wife was pregnant and he was upset as they had agreed to no children for 5 years…long story short…they were divorcing. His wife accused mine of cheating with him, at the office…my w had a few friends that were male. I was aware of that. They became my friends. But as time went on I noticed this guy would only show up when I was out (leading my own life). He made improvements to house. I decided I did not like the way he looked at her and told her that I would kick the crap out of him if I ever saw him at that house again. He disappeared so I was OK….
In the summer of 2000 we had the R talk. She wanted to try and work on M. I agreed to let her spend oodles on money on house. Although we had money I hated the way she spent it. We grew up differently. She got whatever she wanted. I watched them turn the power off during the winter at my house 3 x. I also watched them tack up foreclosure notices on my house when I was a child. What I would not do is go to MC or IC. I despised it and my formative years had a bad influence on me.
Little by little we grew apart. She became very moody. I became lonely. I was ripe for an A. I told her, she laughed at me. I began losing weight. I also began working on a race team and taking photos at the track. Now I was gone 3 nights a week doing that. Then I was gone 12-15 weekends covering NASCAR! We lead separate lives. She was with kids and I was off doing something. In spring of 2002 we got into a huge argument over a message on my cell phone from work. She did not like the tone of woman’s voice. It was absurd to me, but she said we needed counseling. I agreed that I wanted to save marriage. Within 3 or 4 sessions he asked us why we were here and to my surprise W said “to have an amicable split”. I grew angry and refused to even consider counseling further.
At this time it had been 9 months since SF. I told her I was lonely and that it was torturing me. She did not care. It was at that point that I began to reexamine us.
My problems were I was selfish and self centered. I sued her insecurities as weapons. I did not listen to her, I did not care about her needs. I was angry, all the time. I thrived on controversy. I despised her job and let her know it. I hired a private investigator who found absolutely nothing other than phone calls from Coworker previously discussed. She then gave me a legal separation agreement. My response was to tell her NO, and I left, I covered races on weekends and slept at a friend’s house that was vacant. I rarely saw children. My father told me I was being a scum bag for not being with family so I moved back in. She was pissedoff big time. Moved into son’s room….
We lived this way for over 2 years. I basically planned A, tried to get to her somehow. We had little SF and if we did she was drunk. It had been that way for 6 years! Anytime we had a R talk we LB’d and it got pretty bad. I went to IC alone, I was changing slowly but surely. I had lost 40 pounds over 3 years. She then came to me again with a new separation agreement that basically had her paying me off for house and stuff in it, joint custody, her primary, weekends and one night a week visits. I started looking at houses. I had tools, snowmobiles, etc and an apartment was not practical. Plus, I did not ever want my boys feeling bad for me , like I did my own father when he first left. Then my company lost millions of dollars and I got scared and asked W to “give me a break” until I found something. She refused, telling me I was messing with her and the boys. She became furious when I did not “get it done” and gave me a deadline that I ignored. I got a letter from her attorney telling me that her client was ready to file for divorce and that I needed representation. Of course I was furious but went to lawyer who told me he “would get disbarred” if I had you sign that. We countered. I wanted better visitation, more money (we had a lot of equity in house), and no support. We had a stalemate. My attorney told me that she was going to say I was dangerous to her and kids.
I arrived home one night from work with 5 sheriff cars in the drive way. I was served an order of protection and served divorce papers.
It was ugly, the second night I checked into a hotel and planned on killing myself. As I wrote to my boys telling them they would be alright I changed my mind, KNOWING they would not be. I got it done. I got everything that I tried to get through the sep process and I had 70 days to find new home. I moved within 2 miles of them.
I started dating after about 2 months. I went crazy. It sucked and was unfulfilling. I decided that I needed to still try with now XW. On her B-day I invited her and boys to my home for dinner. XW asked me if I dated…I said yes and she went nuts! She was always angry with me. I was depressed, I began that awful groveling and begging process again, it was terrible. Then one morning I took one son back to her house and I noticed that she had someone park their car in garage that had left very early in the AM (prior to meeting us for game)…I knew…it was the guy from her office…I called her out on it and told her….”look, it’s always on the table, you and I”. She cried, telling me she could not believe me. I was CRUSHED. I felt even more betrayed. I don’t know why. It was that week that her best friend told me about an affair she had had (4-5 years ago at the time). I embarrassed myself with mutual friends, looking more information. When I asked her she said that “she did not have to answer that any more, she owed me nothing”…I knew right then it was true…and I was really in the deep water now….
My IC, begged me to go on AD, I had lost another 50 pounds, I was losing hair in clumps….I was not eating, nor sleeping. I did not want anything to do with anyone. She also told me I needed to disengage my xw. That was my Plan B. I put it in my calendar as a recurring appointment that told me how many weeks I was “dark”…I kept a journal of how I felt, of my anger, resentment, despair, all of it. It helped me to look at myself objectively. My transformation was almost complete. I began to accept my reality, my failures and my own self worth. Then my married IC, about 5 years younger than I, asked me out to dinner. It was mind numbing to me, what was wrong with me?? I knew I began to feel emotional about this woman and I ran away, like I had from my problems with my xw. No, I never did report her to anyone, what was the point (now…I would tell H).
After about 2 months I started dating. I was learning how to be nice to people. I craved affection and returned it. Unfortunately I was deemed a “catch” and people wanted more than I could offer. I allowed SF way too early. It was not smart and was selfish. I was safe and very honest. It seemed like some women wanted to “convert” me. The SF and affection met some of my EN’s but I felt dead inside, numb, and afraid.
Then after about 9 months I met someone very special. I was alive and felt that way. XW knew of this gf from mutual friends. One day I allowed her to “engage” me by letting her ask many questions about her. I was very uneasy and told xw so. I also told gf about this conversation and how I felt I would always love xw but…..we were done…..then….we started having some heated discussions about happiness (she was miserable, I was not), sincerity (she came right out and asked if I loved her, I told her I could), honesty, anger, etc. I spoke of her behavior in the office with her BF (she told me he was nice to her but he was not even a bf), I told her I did not understand why she was so unhappy. She got upset and left. She later told me that she hated that I was “happy”.
Then while covering a NASCAR race out of state I herniated two discs in my lower back. I was in agony and called xw asking her to make a dr’s appointment for me because I did not have any numbers. If she did not want to that was fine but I would have issues getting the boys that night because I was in absolute agony. She asked me if I wanted her to come me. I was at a loss for words. Why would she drive across 3 states for me? I said no I would drive home. Drive home was horrible, 6 hours in car. I got to doctors who poked , prodded and twisted me. He wanted me hospitalized. I said no, so he gave me percocet every 4 hours in his words “putting me down for a few days” xw decided to meet me at drug store so I could go home and she would get drugs. She sent boys home with me. We got stuck in traffic and I was screaming in agony, in tears. I never wanted boys to see me like this. I got home and hobbled to couch where I passed out in pain. I woke up and boys were staring at me, in a cold sweat, asking me if they should call 911. When their Mom got there she told me she did not want to leave me alone, I begged her to leave I did not want them seeing me this way. She told me that I “probably have someone else coming over anyways”…I told her no….I did not… she left…and called me a few hours later and machine picked up..I was unconscious from drugs…
I struggled with my feelings over this and feelings for xw were rushing in. I talked to gf about it and she told me “I’m going to lose you to her”..I said NO WAY….Then at a game of the kids I told her to stop by that night for a drink…she said she would….when she called that night on her way back up our way I panicked, never asked her again…It was like my plan B…heard her voice and handed phone off…it was habit….she called next day, told me she was disappointed and asked to come over early…we watched a movie, I stroked her hair and kissed her cheek when I left. I told gf everything…she was mad and asked what I was doing….I told her I was working on my resume (w/ xw who asked me to stay for dinner which I declined because gf decided to come out to see me. I said I did not feel well. Having herniated two discs just a few weeks before I was not doing too much anyways and I wanted company. About 11:00 PM xw called screaming at me that I was a jerk for lying to her about not feeling well. She knew I had company. Gf heard conversation and we ended up having a heated discussion. She was mad I agreed to go out to dinner with xw and my boys for my bday…she left that night upset, sending me a nasty e-mail that I was a jerk….how could I want anything to do with xw…?
Xw and I talked at length after dinner on my b-day. In my nervous state I drank, heavily…did not really realize it until I tried to get up! Xw started crying that gf was coming out next day and I asked why…see I was a dummy…I had accepted our fate, given up on the door ever being opened by her….so she told me she wanted to try….I ended up passing out with her and when I woke up in the morning went out and told gf on cell not to come out….we had to be done.
Xw and I had a nice weekend with boys, nothing more than spending quality time together. We decided NOT to tell anyone what was going on, even the boys…it was very precarious. After about 5 days she gave spoke of something that angered me about the guy from her office. We argued on phone and that night so I then demanded an answer to the question she refused to answer regarding her “affair”….she got upset, brought up my behaviors, and I just said “We will go no further until you tell me the truth”, she was hysterical crying, telling me that after all we had been through, that we were right, and that I would not ever forgive her, yes, she did have an affair”…I was dumbfounded. I asked the questions, who, when, where, etc. She told me it was about a year…I was a goner…I drank a bottle of booze and went to sleep.
The next day when I picked up the boys she came outside, she was obviously crying, and exclaimed “oh my God you can’t even look at me”….I could not…so I went to work and dragged out all of my planners from when I had to take care of the boys. I sent her an e-mail telling her that “less than a year after you asked me for a divorce, after agreeing to work on M, you had an affair”..she told me that they just met out of town when she was working. I wrote to her (and my journal)…I was very angry..I was devastated. I also realized that given all that happened I needed to try. I had said when I first heard rumors that she probably did have an affair. I had come very close myself during those bad times.
It was so new again that when I was with her the questions did not seem important. I wrote in my journal. Every time I brought it up she got very upset. My questions did not need answers. That lead to LB’s. Then I started hearing contradictions. The second D-day for me was when I found out that it wasn’t “just” out of town booty calls while she was away for work. They actually schemed and planned rendezvous. They waited for me to be away. I was livid. I continued demanding to know who it was. She told me “the details are unimportant” . Doesn’t it sound so eerily familiar??!?!?! We decided that IC and MC was necessary. I had asked very specific questions and she would answer yes or no. We began MC. It was an experience as we learned things about each other we never knew. Her distrust of everyone stemmed from the relationship with her family and my anger issues were a result of my relationship with my mother and how I was brought up. XW and I tore down the impenetrable walls we built up between each other and everyone else. We were extra vulnerable and it was very different.
Look, there were folks who said we were supposed to forget the past, get past it. Well, regardless of what people thought we held each other very accountable for our actions from the day we met, through our marriage, and even afterwards. This made it tough at times.
I sent xw the Dear Peggy Letter trying to have her understand why I needed to know. It began to consume me. It was around this time that I found Marriage Builders. I wish I could find some of my first posts on the old board but I can’t.
We went away for a weekend to a NASCAR race. I had been scheduled to take photos so I asked a contact high up with NASCAR for credentials so she could see “I was not running around the track with my pants around my ankles!”…It was a great trip until she accused me of lying about some stupid thing and I got angry and began asking questions…the plane ride home, in first class, was hideous. She cried all the way home. Finally I prepared written questions. With help on the board I found out whom, where, when…it hurt…bad…she was not real open about any of it. Of course, it was here that I found out that her affair was BEFORE she asked me for divorce. I had tons of questions because at that time (of her affair) I guess it was not that bad. I was upset that she led me to believe I was aware of how unhappy she was. It was awful. I began to ask questions about specific trips, events, etc. She was “with him” twice..once in Las Vegas and the other about 9 months later at a hotel near an airport she picked him up at 100 miles from home. I thanked her for being open and offered here one last chance to bring out anything else. She said there was nothing.
About 6 months after we began reconciliation I became angry (what I learned here was it was normal). She was very nasty back. She was angry back. Said some very nasty things and I went away for a spell. She became very jealous of old GF. Without reason I might add. Around Christmas and the holidays she told her family what we were trying. She also told me that she “intended to keep me honest like she would with any man she brought in her children’s lives”…meaning that we best be very serious about our intentions. This is where I tell you that IC, and MC worked for us.
Here are a couple of threads I wrote after the holidays that year:
We're going out Have we recovered?? Then less than a month later D-day #3!
D-day #3 The whole truth….
Here are some more situations handled through here:
Boundaries, No contact, etc:
This was paramount to our recovery:
No Contact- EVER Moe on NC So folks…here I am today. I moved back in at her request in May 2005. Sold my house. We’re scheduled to get married in a few weeks. So we have been through it all. Understand that there was no Plan A (I did not know plus I would probably never DO a Plan A…)..We're pretty good now, like any couple we have our moments. We're scarred but not dead. We have learned much with much more to learn..
It was a LONG, arduous road we traveled. Many sleepless nights, knotted stomachs. But I know this is the woman I love…We’re better than we ever were and I look at her A’s much differently.
This post is long enough…there is stuff missing, gaps I am certain…but this is me…thanks for reading…questions?? Ask away…
