Pep dear,

Yes, I think far too much.......

But I think I have to start mapping out Plan B......

To me, most important part in hatching a good Plan B is to talk to myself, convince myself the need & benefits of Plan B ......

All these thots, doubts, questions racing through my head increasingly more lately are almost like the prophesized catastrophes prior to end of the world & judgement day........

----------------------------------------

An update on progress of my Plan A....

Though the overnighter was not WOW, guess it was pleasant enough to WH to suggest another night out, just the 2 of us.... This time, we seemed be more natural & we both had a good time........ We had a comfortable day with the kids also..... a perfect picture of family & marrital bliss....

WH points out to me that despite our 'trial' (during which I close one eye on his activities & I approve co-existence) he has chosen to be with me all the weekends. WH claims he realises my pain when he is not around....

During the weekdays, WH typically comes back before midnite... during week 1, only 1 out of 5 nights he volunteered info on his activities, in week 2, 4 out of 5 times WH keeps me posted, a significant improvement (the other nights where I am in the dark were of course ******) ...

WH is factually true..... though given free rein, WH is around mostly, other than work & weekday nights.

We did not go into negotiation fully but I did let WH know that the 'trial' situation is like me having a plaster over my mouth & cant interrogate his activiites. It can't be sustained for long..... I will suffocate.

I confessed that I am willing to give each of us breathing space provided I am convinced they are history. And to that end, some form of concrete proof of total sep is critical..... didnt specify need for letter to OW (and didnt say a word about Plan B)..... WH claims he's starting to realise that too & is thinking too a feasible proof...... whether or not WH is willing to co-operate & do the total sep & give the proof is another matter altogether....

You must say I am INSANE... to believe. Even I think I am losing it........... I am so impressionable, naive, believing & vulnerable right now

Tell you a secret.......I must be so love-starved, affection-starved,..... so starved that I begin to wish I too could have a whirlwind romantic A too, to re-live the feeling of being totally swept off my feet..... Such a sweet lovely fantasy.

Well back to reality, gotta start working on Plan B.... at the same time, keeping up with Plan A for another 2 weeks....

endofworld

OW had other plans

sorry

probably a fact

(((ouch))) I know ... but keeping it real

YOU are doing a FANTASTIC Plan A ... such self control

~~ congratulations ~~~

well done !!!

you resisted laughing into his face when he said "I realize your pain"

which we both know is horseshyt

he thinks he does but he has gutted you ... and he will soon be painfully aware hisownself of what "gutted" looks like .... assuming Plan B comes to pass.

Hang in there

you're on the home stretch

PAMPER YOURSE$LF <<<~~~ do not forget this element!

Pep

This is your "Taker" knocking on your brain, letting you know the time for Plan B is near ... GET READY !!!

read the link I provided a few posts back on this thread .... goes to my old post about "Harley Is A Smart Man" <<<~~~ a total play on words referencing Forrest Gump that NOT ONE PERSON caught on to !!! LOL

I'm weird ...

Pep

Hi pep

True, my EN have not been fully met pre-A, running on reserves & moral compass all this while. Now Plan A is exhausting the reserve even...... that's why the secret fantasy..........

It was easy for me to do Plan A but talking myself into Plan B is much tougher..... so much for self-respect.....

It would have been much easier if I

1) start to fall out of love with WH now, after 2 D & all misery......

2) still have feelings for WH based on 19 years of companionship purely, not love

But yet, what's happening is as I reflect on how we came to current situation, etc, I seem to be reminded of all the reasons I 1st fell in love with WH & those wonderful first 5 years. WH is supposed to be reminded of this! Not me certainly! But it's happening to me.

And in reflection, I realise that couple time was completely replaced by family time after the birth of eldest daughter, she's now turning 14. No more dates, I was reduced to being just a mother & maybe wife, certainly not a lover anymore........ except for occasional vacations & outings together, even then, our conversation is always centred around the kids........ romance died some 13 years ago......

I missed it but never complained or demanded couple time. WH started concentrating on work, entertaining late & spending great deal of time on golf..... He's been living a swinging single's lifestyle for 13 years.... I never liked it but tolerated cos I thot that it was just a natural phase of marital love......... that WH needed to concentrate on work & also deserved some personal space..... I nagged occasionally & threw tantrums over no couple time but generally accepted my lot. I trusted WH would be faithful, total stupid trust, cos I am wired to be faithful..... Other than trust, I felt that to love someone is to liberate someone, not bond him, that I must make him happy. And while WH was living his single married lifestyle, I devoted all nonworking time & energy to the kids. They are superbly well brought up, sensible kids, yes & happy ones too. I made the best of my lot .... killing 2 birds with 1 stone........ WH & kids are the 2 birds, they are happy.......... me the stone, crushed from the impact

I came to this realisation only after spending time with WH. While Sat was more ackward, Sun nite out a lot more spontaneous, almost like pre-kids days..... I was sent back in time, reminiscing & realised what I've been missing all these 13 years..... truth is I having been loving WH all these years though it certainly didnt look that way..... with no chance to be together alone

but I'm NOT blaming myself. There're many other H out there in similar situation but they have not taken advantage of their understanding wife & had A. So culprit is still WH & his lack of moral compass....

But having had a great weekend of couple time brought back all the warm feelings of being in love again.......... motivating me to not give. This weekend, we didnt talk about the kids while out, it was like a real date......

Of course, it takes 2 to tango, while I may be lovey-dovey, WH could just be doing a sales job on me, just to continue with his comfortable situation of having a compassionate wife & inspirational biz partner-cum-lover....... I have to remind myself.........

But the memory of being in love with WH & shamefully still in love with WH despite all makes it hard. At times, I even felt that I should release WH to pursue his personal happiness with OW. Letting him go would spare him from the pain of having to give up a viable biz partnership & financial hardship. Can you find a bigger idiot than that?

Yes, very painful for me but I feel somehow that I am stronger than I think I am & will in the long run be able to stand on my own feet with the kids...... how long it takes for me, I dont know. Maybe, someday I can also find my own happiness .........

Now as for your question of whether this is 1st A for WH, frankly, I am dying to know as well...... But I would never know the real truth.......... with such an understanding wife giving him so much personal time & space, WH definitely had all the opportunity in the last 13 years to do so...... and WH is no James Bond but is fairly flamboyant & smooth talker....... WH has always been a risky taker & enjoys the thrill & challenge of pursuing the unobtainable.......and to top it all, no moral compass..... I suspect there could have been one-night stands perhaps with no emotional attachment......

Therein lies my dilemma about having no clue about whether there's any goodness in WH..... he is kind & thoughtful person .... but I have serious doubts over his value system, or lack of it........... There seems to be 2 extremes, the prodigial son (nothing is impossible with God) vs a leapord never changes its spot...

Being able to fall out of love with WH would make it easier for me. But Plan A while intended to make WH realise what marital & family bliss is, is also making me recall good times & renew hope (or is it wishful thinking). It's making me fall in love all over again!!!!! terrible....

I've always looked forward to your frank opinions that always jolt me back to reality. This time, my wishful thinking is indeed very strong,,,,, I actually fear what you might say.......... about the hopelessness of WH & my complete insanity to look for the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow......... there's never ever such a pot

I will read the additional sites you suggested but for now, DIL is in very bad shape........ Doc is preparing death certificate.......

Pep dear, you are always so spot-on, I am a true-blue nester. I have the most boring hobby in the world......... family vacations...... this plus my strong giver instinct ...... certainly makes me a totally boring & unsexy wife ......... But surely there must be someone equally home-loving out there who can treasure this unpolished gem....... ha.......

still living a day at a time.

endofworld

Pep

Earlier I shared with u that while doing Plan A, I discovered that I loved WH & still do love him.

Lest you run off thinking I m an idiot to love a monster like that....... let me clarify......

The last 13 years during which we had very little couple time, we had FANTASTIC family time....... We had so many memories with the kids......

And while we didnt really go dating like lovers, WH has been sweet & thoughtful in his own ways.......... he would do things for me, without me asking....... he would shower me with gifts without any special occasions....... WH gave me no reason to doubt his love & I felt our marriage was invincible....... That's why the total trust.......& willingness on my part to give ..... give WH total personal freedom so much so WH could lead a married single life all these years.....

In fact, WH is prime candidate for A........ flamboyant...... thoughtful........ smooth-operator with surprise gifts. Never thot of that till now........

And as for whether WH has had other A other than this, I said my suspicion is yes, WH could have had one-night stands. But WH has repeatedly said NO..... Well he also denied all about this current 2-year old A....... so what's real, what's real....... only WH & God knows.......


Yes, I know Plan B is the only way to shock WH off the fence. But I have 2 issues.............

1) timing is real bad.......... DIL's health........ WH biz is in one of its most challenging times..... total sep means axing off one viable core biz for biz which is already in need of resuscitation ............... Seems to be real cruel to do Plan B ..........

2) I feel really indignant that I actually consent for WH to go have a F------ good time with OW & that I would welcome him back with open arms when he had his fun.......... that WH could walk out & return anytime is relegating the family to a mere motel, not a home anymore. I have too much pride to execute this ...... For WH to have a change of heart during Plan A is different, he hasnt walked out & deserted us yet.....

Not sure if it's merely escapist attitude, but am sure anytime is a better time to pull the rug out from under WH's feet. To solve the timing issue, how about Plan C....... which is like extended Plan A, postponing Plan B till it's a better time........ or till OW loses patience/interest & exits????? Doormat???? Or in His time (God)?

MC I saw was suggesting this is THE SMART move, to play the waiting game with OW...... One couple I know successfully reconciled with this after more than 1 year of Plan A when OW was forced to become the "conditioner taker" & the BS became the nice guy "unconditional loving sacrificial giver"

BTW WH has been spontaneously nice with me since weekend dates....... He didnt just update me with activities but even asked me for permission to go golfing ..........

Wake up! It's really impossible to read too much into WH's actions or non-actions..... it's like I am walking through a mirror maze........ cant tell whats' real, what's not anymore.....

I go round & round the same issues....... even I find myself so boring.......

endofworld

Post deleted by rainbowbeliever

If at all possible

call the Harleys for a session

they can develop a plan with you

Pep

Pep

I love the thread W Harley is a smart man & the real-estate course......

I was freeloader during courtship but became a buyer after marriage....... strange thing is there seems to be some renter traits in me during last 13 years...... I put up with little or no couple time (come to think of it, maybe I was still a buyer cos WH did a fantastic job with love gestures & not all my EN were not met in those 13 years....

Okie, I need to think renter to do plan B..... will work on brainwashing myself......... I must say I have been able to let go of many expectations while doing Plan A...... yes, not at all enjoyable but I did it...... will try to roleplay renter while still at Plan A.....

Lots of talking to myself needed..... Must say you have given me much of the strength I needed to come this far.....

WH was buyer before A...... not sure if WH is more freeloader or renter now...... but there's no end trying to read WH...... I really cant control WH but I can control myself & changing my values & beliefs .......... to protect myself.......... While I may be naive & quite a sucker of late to WH's show of commitment, my taker is always around playing devil's advocate...... Of course, your jolts back to reality help a great deal.

endofworldnomore

Pep

Either I've lost it or wishful thinking has completely consumed me........ but it's true

WH seems quite a changed man this week, started from Sun..... (yes, yes, I know it's only been a few days....no cause for champagne flutes yet.....)

WH has stopped letting me guess his whereabouts..... WH volunteeered info, & called back to update frequently during the day, even asking for permission for golf..... and he's been doing it several times daily.

Whatever the reason for the change, I really dont know, but I sure am not tortured anymore........ And I reciprocated by being even nicer to WH..... am even starting to trust what WH says he's doing is gospel truth........ and in process, I feel more at peace.... DANGER!

For anyone under normal circumstances (with no other problems except the A) to do what WH did last few days may not so significant as in WH's case. DIL's condition is deteriorating by the day, WH's biz has had hard knocks, lost a deal last week, lost one this,...... nothing seemed to go right....... tough days for WH...... poor thing...... cant imagine I actually said it out but yes that's exactly how I thot or felt (dont know the difference anymore) DANGER!

Caution.....Maybe OW lost interest, or out-of-town,.......I know sustainability of good behaviour is definitely needed for any real assesssment.....

I have cut down my long list of terms to adhere to in order to stay in M. Now there's ONLY condition TOTAL SEPARATION. Dont worry for me, I have NOT lost sight of it yet... I will tell you when I feel I'm losing it.........

You know, at the beginning of A, I felt totally hopeless..... cos A started just weeks before birth of toddler (turning 2 soon). The intensity of the A was far too strong for even the miracle of birth & new life for WH to wake up......... What more, it was quite a miracle birth, 11th hour C-section or stillbirth..... I felt totally hopeless cos WH was not thankful enough for conscience to [censored] him

I thot if miracle of life didnt work for WH, nothing else except death may..... I of course, did not wish ill of DIL but being at bedside of DIL together with WH & kids & other family members may have just done the trick...... not sure.... WH has lost sight of God this last 2 years but now starts talking about meaning of life...... very profound......... DIL is very blessed, despite health problems last 10 years, MIL is faithful stoic W who stood by him in sickness now, and despite suspected infidelity in younger years......

And MIL has asked to move in with us,....... of course, there's only us if WH agrees to total sep..... Ha God seems to be on my side....

Initially, instead of counting my blessings over the sudden turn of event, I got greedy, asking if such a NO CHOICE situation for WH amounts to anything...... now I try to accept whatever help comes along, regardless of shape & size.......

My godm who's journeying with me like you're doing, empathsized with my plight. Speaking as a woman first, & not a Catholic, she would leave. But as a Catholic W, it's a different story...... She asked me what I really want for myself as a individual, not even a Catholic..... My reply was I WANT A MIRACLE....... To this, I was told that while I may ask for a miracle, like order 'double beef burger' for breakfast, I am in no position to tell God HOW to do it! We can only storm heaven with our prayers & accept the unfolding of the big plan in His time.........

Recall, during RCIA someone told me it's alright even if one makes the right decision for the wrong reasons........ that in His time, God will right it........ Yes, I do feel a tinge of humiliation if WH stay cos he has NO CHOICE, that he didnt choose me cos he loves me ........ but God may right it..........

Hope the religion part is no offence to any reader.... I am once again reminded that you are ever so spot-on..... that this journey is a spiritual one......

I now take deeper breaths, live a day at a time...... I have strength to do cos you have so miraculously removed the bulk of FEAR..... there's still some remnants but I will manage

Recognising the crippling fear of abandonment, unknown & loneliness, I am a lot more objective now...... I also start getting my emergency backpack ready....... also getting finances shaped up.....

Whatever the final outcome is, I will put up a brave & well-fought fight & I honestly feel I am healing, despite
emotional roller-coaster

Hey not sure if you've read earlier 2 posts on "more reflection", felt nice to vent out my inner thots & feelings, almost like burden is lightened cos I posted it...... but i do know it gets boring, such long posts, if you have time, do take a read the story of my marriage & emotional life.......... bet you may have already guessed it, I am cancer too.......... the whole of America celebrates my BD.....

endofworldnomore

I think

you are doing a wonderful Plan A

it is like mining for gold nuggets in one's own heart

you've come up with rich rewards for your efforts

your WH is very drawn to you

keep it up

!!!!!!!!!!!

Treat your Taker to something that makes her very very satisfied with today <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Pep

...

but

keep Plan B in your pocket

line everything up

that too will satisfy your Taker for awhile and stop you from love-busting

~*good job*~

Pep

PS

it's a pleasure to work with someone with actual reading comprehention <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

I get tired of explaining everything after I've already explained it... you just need to relax hunny

coz you're doing better than most !!!

Pep

Pep

I know I am very long-winded.... but I have to get it out......

- we have tried MC (& quit cos getting nowhere),
- are attending marriage coaching (great in equipping us with gentler communication skills but wanting in the department of dealing with emotional rollercoaster),

- but nothing beats what the takeaways from MB & in particular your down-to-earth advice, preparation for the unknown & reality checks......

Guess amidst all the frequent daily calls from WH, WH told me that he has a surprise for me this Sat........ my heart melts.......... DANGER!

Yes, I heard u, caution..... & I will....... The bigger the hope, the greater the disappointment........ I take any action or non-action with a lake of salt (a pinch is just not enough)

As for getting ready for Plan B, financially I dont need WH. I am by no means rich, it's just that I'm a simple woman with simple needs, easily contented.

What I needed most is to be prepared emotionally for Plan B & I getting there, still working on it.....

Cos I know, THE day will come when I will ask for concrete proof of total sep.......... the letter from WH to OW I so badly want, and to approve the contents as well.........
who knows what WH's reactions will be then........ that's why Plan A must get even better to even stand a chance...

WH will have only 2 choices on THE day, sep letter to OW or I will execute Plan B. But when THE day will be, I will decide along the way......

Actually, even before I chanced upon MB, WH has been expressing concern that the damage he had done is for too great & that it may be impossible for me to put the past behind........ WH has all this while been wanting to put the past behind & move on to rebuild from we left off..... that's why WH agreed to attend marriage coaching. My initial anger got in the way........ And WH felt hopeless that we could ever move on healthily.....

But the proven skills I learnt from MB seem to be able to give WH hope that recon is possible & also gave WH a glimpse of what blissful marital life could have been & can be.......

Remembering to count my blessings daily, I am very blessed that WH is emotionally very attached to the kids..... WH always wants the best for them....... They are my ace cards......

Yes, I will remind myself not to raise my hopes too high...... to continue to give it my all, pray for the best, but be prepared for whatever comes......... AND life (for me & the kids) must go on...

Oh yes, I am going to the saloon tomorrow for some pampering.......

endofworldnomore

best typo ever

[color:"blue"] Oh yes, I am going to the saloon tomorrow for some pampering.......
[/color]

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

can I come???

Pep

bumping up

Pep dear

Good thing I didnt bet with you, would be bankrupt by now! Yes, you're spot on again!

WH unable to choose, still dragging feet. I declared I would decide then and demanded WH leave house immediately. Kicked WH out 11 pm!

Told WH I love him still but too painful to love him if he is not willing to separate with OW totally. Surprisingly, I slept almost immediately after WH left house & slept through the night!

The very next day, I didnt take any of WH's calls. Only SMS him to assure kids ok & that we would liaise via the lawyers. WH returned home the next morning, wanted to talk. I refused, went work as usual. In the evening, WH hung around my workplace & declared he wants to be with family & would make OW history in 2 days' time and made lots of promises.

WH stayed out only 1 night, returned next night. The following morning, we discussed the actual execuation. WH didnt agree to email, offered that he would call OW to tell her it's over. I asked to be around when WH made the call, a silent observer. WH objected & wanted to do it on his own cos awkward with me around. WH counter-offered he would make a promise to me in church or in presence of a priest that he had broken up with OW afterwards.

I felt WH is totally insincere. What's there to hide? What's that short moment of unease compared to my past year of misery?

WH felt my asking for evidence is a sign that trust cannot be rebuilt. That in future, there would be other instances I declare I cant trust & again ask for evidence. That this will be precedent. I felt if WH is not prepared for total honesty in order to start a new future, then future will be like filled with absence of total honesty?

I felt WH is self-centred conceited, totally not bothered with my need for reassurance.

Deadlock! What's next? Mistake in letting WH return so soon. How?

Dont worry, I did not shed a drop of tear throughout this. I'm swarmed with memory of WH's unloving, thoughtless cruel acts & emotional abuse to keep me from clinging on to WH desperately. I said "Take it or leave it"

But ask WH leave again?

endofworldnomore

WH did it. WH called & spoke to OW, followed by email. WH will announce his choice & decision to the kids. You sure it's over, just like that?

I ponder why WH did it so swiftly after dragging feet so long & guess likely cos I mean biz this time, no tears etc
Or is it staged? WH claimed that he discovered what he truly wants in life in the moment of solitude (that night he got kicked out)

WH asked to put the past behind us & start anew. We talked & he said "time will heal" & I felt touched, thinking WH was referring to my raw wounds and our marriage recovery.

Then WH said "what was so difficult in the past was cos there was so much synergy". OH! WH is talking about his breakup with OW! His heartache & pain ! Some background to understand better, they started out as biz partner, great sparring partner to bounce biz ideas & then ...There has been connection at the intellectual level & guess emotional too. I am aware that total sep means giving up a core biz for WH & this is also very painful for WH.

WH even told OW he was kicked out that 1 night but insisted they didnt meet. WH indeed called me several times from office that night. WH said he called OW cos he was very depressed. And whenever WH is down, especially in biz, WH contacts OW, OW uplifts him, inspires him. They are soulmates! Previously, WH has shared before that he has told OW about us going marriage coaching etc. WH tells Ow everything! They are that connected!

Yes, I want total honesty but it pains me to know about their emotional connection & WH's heartache breaking up with OW. I struggle with WH's honesty wabout his feelings. Should I stop further such sharing? Or allow it to continue to slowly foster a connection between us? Need to strike a balance to keep sane.

I am touched by fact that WH is giving up a core biz for us. ANd WH has said he will give total commitment & made the future beautiful for us. So touching! But I do tread with caution. A really ending & my ordeal really over? Plan B success so soon? Need to be skeptical, need to protect myself

Giving WH benefit of doubt, how to proceed to recover? Pls tell me honestly, in my face, if it's wishful thinking on my part, that I am just being dragged on an emotional roller-coaster, if you think this is false recovery.

Yes, am having many questions once again after a peaceful Plan A. Looking for enlightenment. Emotionally I am ok otherwise (no more crying), just many doubts in effort to protect myself. Trying to figure out if indeed I can start to trust WH.

What about emotional infidelity? WHat if WH cant snap out? Is WH in withdrawal yet? What are the signs of withdrawals & how to conquear them? Or is it too soon for me to ask about that?


endofworldnomore

Been doing serious reflection. In life, there's no guarantee. Nothing is a sure thing except death eventually.

So what if I am condemned as the fool of the century? I will accept it's over. Any violent objections?

How to proceed from here? Any danger spots to watch out for? From your experience, any expected problems? Recall pep said recovery is harder than Plan A & B. Pls help arm me with what to expect & ammunition for the killing fields.

endofworldnomore

You feeling like crap. Relentlessly, endlessly. Miserable, resigned, not believing, "having feelings", doubting yourself, doubting him, raging, biting your tongue, trying hard, getting nothing back, not seeing any remorse or sorrow, relapse (of contact) be given lots of attention but doubt if you want it, crying, not crying when you should, wondering if you ever "loved" them when the anger sets in...
Is that enough to start with?

You need to understand what recovery looks like. Read about what to do after the affair:

How to Survive Infidelity

NC with OW must be for life; that is an absolute necessity.

(without everything in place....understand that false recoveries frequently happen....beware...stay vigilent for quite a while)

Dr. Harley said we should never trust our spouses 100%.
It is important to maintain romantic love in our marriages.