EO,

#4 - Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves...

I've been doing that in each post on MB for the last two and half years...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

And yes, you spotted how much the Villagers comes into this...and the resentment timeline...and posting in highest honesty and being here for myself...and for others.

That's two-way street works if you work it.

Doing the inventory is how we own all parts of ourselves...know where they come from and why...allows us to talk to our fear, not run with it...act from it...fear fearing. Part of us...God-given...essential.

Nothing to an extreme.

And the better we know all of ourselves, the less we judge others for their stuff...as a result. Our intent remains to not judge stuff...just actions.

That's the clear lines in reviewing your own history and yours with others...what you saw on the other side of your SD...your mother...yourself.

Separating stuff from actions...knowing not to regret our stuff...active remorse for our actions.

I believe you've learned you can feel blocked...doesn't mean you are. You can feel old stuff again...doesn't mean you're who you were then. And you can feel fearful...does not mean you are someone to fear or others are...means you feel fear...a signal...to be traced, owned and known.

And I believe you know you're worthing being known. Entirely.

Did you set up an IC appt yet? I saw you seeing where it consumed...rather than doing it right now, who you are right now, where you see all your choices, know your priorities and power.

What do you think? Did you go into the future with a replay in mind?

You've been self-nuturing, exploring, knowing and doing from...very different than before.

How are the girls?

I've been wondering about HTBH, too...thought I might bump her thread. That'll show her.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

LA

LA, you've mentioned doing a couple's timeline, how does that work? Is it both sharing their individual's timelines? Or drafting one timeline together?

It really hit me today how much has changed since I first logged on here in October '05. Our routine is different, we're doing things every day that meet one another's ENs in big and small ways. But the big difference is the atmosphere, one of compassion and confidence and problem solving instead of blame and frustration and powerlessness.

Almost a year ago, H submitted my resume to an internet company across the country, in SoCal, where H wanted to move. It was a huge disagreement, because I was thinking like a Renter at that time. I thought I would stay in this marriage if things would only get better, so I was very motivated to not move.

Now, I feel like I'm here in this marriage as a Buyer, for the long haul. By choice. We're planning to go out this summer. H has a consulting position lined up already. I feel very secure that if I try it and am not willing to stay, that I can move back. H sent my resume again to the same company, this time with my blessing. I had the first phone screen today, and it went really well.

The girls are doing well <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> D11, though, is having some problems with her self-image, so I'm trying to brainstorm with her what to do about that. Listen and repeat serves me well here.

I still need to make the IC appointment <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Hi EO!! I'm still around! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I've been lurking lately, tying to focus on getting some stuff in order in my real life, so I haven't been posting. I'm still reading and following along, though!

I'm so glad you guys are talking about moms and FOO stuff. One amazing unexpected benefit of MB, for me anyway, has been that my relationship with my MOM is really thriving. I haven't worked through all the old stuff yet, but I'm getting so much better at seeing my mom (and my dad, too) as a whole person, totally separate from me, and just letting her be her, rather than the mom I wish I could have had, if that makes any sense.

Hey, I wanna come to Colorado this summer too!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Hugs all around,
Happy

Happy, good to see you!

And thanks for sharing about how your situation with your mom is going. I like that perspective, a whole person, totally separate, whoda'thunk <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I'm trying to get the calendar together, so I can figure out when we're going to be where.That would be so cool to have a MB reunion!

Hugs!

((((Hapster)))) How great to see you and to hear your update. Thank you!

Wouldn't it be an MB union, EO? LOL

I'm so glad it's the July 4th weekend...not the triathalon weekend...though, now that I think about it, way out where the race is, heck, I'm three quarters of the way to the airport right there!

AmI will be here that weekend. How stoked am I?

Well, I gotta go fix my Dad's sound on his computer. EO...you let me know. I'll drive almost to Kansas to see you, 'k?

((((EO))))

LA

Yes, a MB union <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

H took a consulting position in LA, he started today. The plan is for the rest of us to join him out there when the kids get out of school the 31st. We'd spend the summer out there, and see if it's somewhere we could get jobs and find a place to live.

D11 is doing awful. She was crying and said her Dad promised her he wouldn't travel for work anymore. He took the assignment because they'd pay for him to be out there, so he could look for permanent work.

H says he feels conflicted, being out there, bringing up the concerns I have always had of the high cost of living.

I'm looking forward to seeing some resolution to all this that's been hanging over my head for so long. I feel very outward focused. I'm going to take some time now that the girls are asleep to recenter.

Hugs!

Oh, EO...

I'm so very sorry. I was secretly wishful he'd given up on all that.

Good to know he know feels conflicted. That's different.

He can find his own way, EO...I just know it. And not to an "I told you so"...to an "I love you greatly, EO."

I wonder if there's some internal admiration thirst he has...something from his youth, which says to make it there? A secret prestige? Something with the girls and getting work, maybe?

He'll find his way to knowing you are his number one fan club...which is better than anything else. In my prayers, EO. And your DDs, too.

Big hugs, EO. Your choices remain. You know that.

LA

LA, wow, I'm glad you were up! My belief, perhaps a projection, is that H's desire to move is largely a wish to get away from here. Especially now that his Mom has passed away. I met him a month after he'd moved back here, moved in with his mom, after having lived out of state or out of the country for years. It would be good to know if this move is to move away or to move toward something.

I really think God has a plan for me. And I don't know what that plan is. I thought it was to be here, with my mom. We had dinner tonight, sharing our presence. What a gift. She was diagnosed last month with Sjögren’s Syndrome, an autoimmune disorder. She has been sick for some time, and finally she is getting the help she needs for it. Her problems with her anger are gone. This is what I mean that she seems more like herself.

So I'll pray for guidance. My choices do remain.

Well, EO...I don't know the plan, either.

I just know whatever the plan is, God's with me, all the way.

And being there was part of your plan...I think we see it in hindsight more easily. You got to be there...and you are seeing your mother get help...finally with a diagnosis...and you're present.

Pretty cool, woman. I missed the projection part...which would be you putting your stuff on him as if it were his motivation...help out an endorphin-drenched old gal, 'k?

I like the balance of temporary, which wasn't really an option before...am I getting that correct, that compromise? Where a summer out there isn't permanent..may not end up being that way?

Is your hair gonna friz out when you leave all that humidity?

LA

I remember being young and balancing that need to be close to my FOO with a desire to be far far away. All along, though, I love the close connection I have with my FOO. My brothers and sister used to come spend the weekend over here most weekends, and we took lots of trips with them. I look back now and see how that helped me reparent my own inner child, to share those experiences with my siblings in addition to my H and my own kids. We only had daughters, no sons, so I thought it was great that my H got to throw the football with the boys.

So for me, though I wanted to get away from my stepfather, being close to my siblings and my mom far outweighed the wanting to get away.

But two of my brothers and my sister didn't come to H's mom's funeral last year. H was really hurt over that, and doesn't like to spend time with my family now. Things were getting strained even before that. And his family isn't here, only one brother who gets together with H's buddy every week but only very rarely with H. A lot of rejection here.

So my projection is a wish to stop seeing H hurting like that. When it's not mine to fix.

Yes, a temporary trial period is a much better option for our family. An option that wasn't on the table last year. It's cool how when we give up our stances we see other options <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Another growth opportunity for me.

I'm feeling pretty withdrawn from H. We went to see his nephew's graduation this weekend, which was great. But to me it felt very obvious that I really don't fit in with his family. I'm not the partying 20 year old I was when I met H, when I think I fit in better with the rest of the family. His family was very nice, and made me feel welcome. But it reinforced to me how I'd felt the week before about not really fitting into H's life anymore.

H makes fun of me as a "pious church goer". It's sad to me that he says that like it's something to scoff at. I get a lot of stength and hope and connection at church; we don't go and list folks' sins or something. We sing and give praise to God. I don't understand how I've ever given H the impression that it's okay to badmouth me like that.

Then he starts going off on how I spend money on trinkets. I spent about $30 a piece on the kids. I got them small things like t-shirts and travel pillows. So I said, what about the money you blew in the gambling hall? They all lost hundreds a piece, while I kept the kids busy outside of the casino. I didn't gripe, because I'd prefer to spend time with my kids; we were on the beach, and we had a great time. So why does my H think it's okay to belittle me like that?

If I was home and not out of town, I would have just left, and let him badmouth me without me there. I feel really let down that I need to accept that I still need to have precautions like a rental car in place, which I didn't have this weekend.

Today, I'd had enough. We were waiting for some other family to pick us up, and I was tired of waiting at the house, so I suggested that we go to town, but there is nothing there but like Walmart. So H goes off again on how much I spend at Wal-Mart, and asks me to agree not to spend anything there. I told him no, and that I resent that he should say such a thing to me. I asked him what is his real concern, so we can find an agreement that we're both happy with. Because I'm not okay with an agreement that I'm not allowed to buy anything at the store. Then, we get to the store, and he say he needs a haircut, which he got. I tried to make light of it, I don't know, can we afford a haircut? Maybe I should cut your hair at home.

But tonight, after I flew home with the kids, and H flew out to SoCal for his work assignment, he called from his layover to talk to us. I told him, I don't want to talk to him, that I feel erally crappy about him. I haven't felt like this in some time.

I guess I'm venting, and that's not so helpful, but I think really when I get this uncomfortable is where I find room to grow.

EO,

I hear you...big kudos on the O&H to H on the phone. You shared.

Interesting questions you posed to yourself, btw. Pick them out and hold each in your hand for a moment...feel the heft of those words, that meaning...hear the voice you're saying them in your head...do they remind you of anyone? Come from a certain place?

I see my DH change around his FOO. I'm sure I do, as well. Just wanted to share that...

Vents are good...wondering about you wondering if you fit into H's life anymore...you, your marriage and your children ARE his life...doesn't mean you're experiencing that right now. Wanted to share that, too.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

How uncomfortable are you? Do I need to back up, give you a LOT of room for that growing explosion?

LA

I wish I was journaler, because after I wrote that, shared my O&H, I felt so much better. I felt better enough to tell H about it this morning. And I shared that, too, that I feel really yucky when I don't even feel close enough to him to share with him.

He apologized, and said he wouldn't do it again. Which wasn't what I was looking for, which would be to open up and talk about this. I wanted to share my experience about judgement, and how Dr. Harley describes DJs. As a way to maintain that belief that if you could just get the other person to "get it" the same way you do, that you wouldn't have to negotiate with them, and take both of your needs into account. H was busy, but I look forward to talking about this with him, see what he thinks.

I see how listen and repeat would have helped me not feel unheard and insignificant. I am glad I have tools, even when I forget to use them!

LA, you're so funny! I read that back, and yes, I'm using my mom's voice. Down to the Brooklyn acccent, which she only gets when she's kvetching LOL.

You are right, we are his life. Which is so boring to him that he wants to move across the country <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />. But it's not my boredom to own, not mine to fix. And more importantly, not about me. I keep forgetting that.

I'm grateful there was no explosion to come, just some needed reflection.

You are a journaler...another tool which doesn't fit your hand automatically...keep picking it up and it will.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

"He apologized, and said he wouldn't do it again. Which wasn't what I was looking for,"

Looking at what is fills up your life...looking from expectations, dries it up. He heard, he apologized and said he didn't want to do that again. That's what I heard. He heard you. He wants to fix your stuff...you want him to hear it...well, he heard it...just took a chunk off of it.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Even without DJs, we negotiate. Part of connection. Part of self-discovery. Part of intimacy. We don't have to negotiate...we can withdraw. We can negate...discount...dismiss.

And we don't like that being done to us.

I know I don't!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Now, going into your mother's voice...is there power, authority, in that voice? Is there more control, getting you to do that which you don't want to do, in that voice? Is there comfort, safety, entitlement, resentment in that voice? False or real?

Kvetching is sharing.

Okay...repeatedly, the same stuff.

LOL

My mother kibbutzed equally...she was balanced between kvetching and kibbutzing. A sideliner and a star. A fixer and a broken human. Didn't mean she didn't shine...nor was a dark cloud. She was all of it, and more. She was style, safe harbor, blistering pavement and white wings. Sometimes I ache for her voice...until I hear it coming out of my own mouth.

This is why I ask about symbols...because what symbols we can find in others...we can see our payoffs more clearly...and determine where they are really coming from.

Two different perceptions at work here...not getting to the symbol beneath...you don't approve of what he did...and he shared he didn't approve of what you did...both looking for the truth...what is right...separate from what either of you want.

Money is a symbol, too. Can be care, attention, appreciation, admiration, security...look for the parallels before the rightness of either...

What he did, he did separately from you.

What you did, you did separately from him.

Did you feel fear in his spending? Did you feel exclusion? Taken advantage of?

Did he feel fear in your spending? Did he feel exclusion? Taken advantage of?

Are his dreams grander, his spending grander, his desires grander than yours? Are you compensating for his grandiosity? Is there a funky balance here?

Reflection has a lot of questions...none of them the right question...a lot of little ones...and most of them, I realized, to figure out what I truly didn't know.

Like your urge to share with him about DJs...flip it over...into yourself...this has been a huge awakening in you...we want our partners to come along on our ride...our newness...distracts from our stuff, too...because our newness, our awakening is our own. That's strong medicine, EO. If we are living to balance...in unhealthy ways...and have been for all our lives...then even our newness affects that balancing act...can create aches and expectations, even this one...

I was promised when I changed, everything changed...but it didn't.

He didn't.

Did you?

Or have old patterns crept back...reactivity like a home-cooked meal, the smell so enticing, fillig you up in the old, sure way...?

You know you cannot get anyone else to get it...not even your children, your best friend, your parents or your dog.

We get it when we do...when we're ready...when we awaken...and no one awakens from being shaken, informed, educated or manipulated.

We resist.

Find your own resistance spots inside...some are tiny...and some are large...fear lurks. Find your fear...trace it...gently, relentlessly...show yourself you are safe...you are not a doormat...you are not excluded, ever, because you include yourself...you do not take advantage of yourself, and you don't separate from you.

Assuming we are talking about amounts of money, not the symbol, not something else...like you said, can be poison to our connection. You know why assumptions are really hard to break? Because they can also feel like love...being known and accepted...not all bad guys dressed in black...can feel like angels on clouds. Tricky stuff.

Simple, nowhere close to easy.

What if this money symbol is pervasive right now...because he's earning it separately, far away; money has taken him away (not FS alone). What if part of the symbol is abandonment? What if money is now a theme, taking on a life of it's own...and hides fear, boredom, expectations, disconnection, anger...cloaks what it really is...and you feel it entwining around your life, cutting something precious off? What if this is a trigger to before, and before that time...? What if there's a symbol of running in place, getting nowhere...the sting of more, bigger failed expectations? What if it tears the heavy blanket off of how very disconnected from each other you really are? What then?

You're new today, EO. You know that. So is he. So are your DDs...what if you danced so hard and so fast because your own beautiful spirit terrified you?

That was me projecting, btw.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

LA

Looking at what is fills up your life...looking from expectations, dries it up.

How true! More clear would be to say that I wanted more then, at the moment. I felt like I have tools to share without raising his haunches in the house, but I lack a way to do that when he's long distance. Dredges all kinds of old feeling for me, feelings I don't have when he's here. Like Jealousy, insecurity, insignificance. I like the back and forth of sharing, of listen and repeat, where we each get more in touch with our thoughts and feelings.

We don't have to negotiate...we can withdraw. We can negate...discount...dismiss.
I don't like that being done to me, either!


Now, going into your mother's voice...is there power, authority, in that voice?

False entitlement. False dichotomy, as if there are only two choices, mine and yours. Winning and losing, instead of win-win. Kvetching is sharing, that's good to know, too!


Did you feel fear in his spending? Did you feel exclusion? Taken advantage of?
We'd had some agreements in the past about gambling limits. It hit me that he has been lying to me about sticking to those limits for a year now.

I feel like I betrayed myself, by not taking steps to protect myself. I have a perception that we have a good trusting marriage, but that perception ignores my past issues with H's drinking and gambling. It would have been a simple matter for me to check up on him with the online banking, but I haven't done it. I've avoided it. I'm not enthusiastic about checking. I'm taking the worst case gamble that if his issues worsen, and like I've said, they've been cyclical over our relationship, that I would be able to support us based on my future income.

I don't like that about myself, that I'm reluctant to do these things. Create security for myself.

Did he feel fear in your spending? Did he feel exclusion? Taken advantage of?
Absolutely he does. He sees how much he doesn't have saved for his retirement, and he says that is because of all the spending I do, for example at Wal-Mart and the supermarket. I take pride in living below my means, so it hurts me that he perceives me this way. Again I am frustrated with myself for not sitting down and making a budget so we'd be looking at actual facts.

I do struggle with feeling entitled. I make an income, that's more than enough to cover at least half of the bills and the stuff I buy for the kids. I made a thoughtful request of myself, and got the kids only one small gift apiece for their birthdays this year, and still he complained. I don't resent the choice I made, to try something new, but I am working on my feeling of disgust that he tries to shame me for this. He says, well, we threw the kids a party, that's enough. But he does buy stuff for them. I try to think, okay, good to know. That's his to own. Most days I think I do better than today at it.


Are his dreams grander, his spending grander, his desires grander than yours?
Yes, he does want more "stuff" out of life. I initiated my career change because he thought I didn't make enough.

Are you compensating for his grandiosity? Is there a funky balance here?
I don't think so. I liked being a saver before I met H. But I hear you. If I wasn't concerned with how much he lost, I might have wanted to spend some time with the family at the casino. That never really was my thing, though.

If we are living to balance...in unhealthy ways...and have been for all our lives...then even our newness affects that balancing act...can create aches and expectations, even this one...
This living to balance, I'm not seeing it, can you please clarify?


I was promised when I changed, everything changed...but it didn't.

Again, I'm not getting you. I do feel like quite a bit has changed. I think he and I have both changed some patterns, but are still migrating that out to other parts of our lives.

I know other folks own their stuff, that what someone "gets" is not mine to own.

Find your own resistance spots inside...some are tiny...and some are large...fear lurks.
My fear is still waht its always been, that I'm not going to be willing and consistent enough to do everything that needs to be done. Although I can see today that I can change that perception through making different choices.


I will look at what money is symbolizing for us. Not sure how to do that?

Part does feel like abandonment. That time after time, other things take priority over our family time. Over our UA time.


What if it tears the heavy blanket off of how very disconnected from each other you really are? What then?
What does this mean? That it may be a situation where he stays because he needs me to be the kids' caregiver so he can persue his aspirations?

I'm so glad to be new today! And your sinuses, aren't you glad they're new today, too!

EO,

In one of your great posts to others, you said you were having a hard time right now.

Plan A and Plan B are for affairs, not working on your marriage without one. Is there one?

Also...I'm going to be posting tomorrow something really important...I believe it will help us all here on MB. I wanted to give you a big alert because I'm hoping it will help you, too, especially.

Because you're in my heart and on my mind and part of my prayers.

LA

So, Saturday's the big day, the girls and I go to join H in LA. My work hasn't been able to replace me yet, even with 6 weeks' notice, so they have been generous to offer me to work from home out from there for a month or two until they have someone.

I came back and reread this. I feel like I'm going up that staricase again, still facing the same fears. I know I'm not in the same place, but it feels like that. I am so sad to leave everything here. We did leave for two years in 2003, because neither of us had work down here, it was more out of necessity. And I was enthusiastic about that. So I wonder if I am just stubborn or something. But I don't think that's what it is. I think it's that I tried making a happy life elsewhere, and I wanted to come home. H wanted to come back more than I did, last time.

D11 especially is so excited we're going. I do have some enthusiasm about SoCal this time. But we lost my MiL last December, and my Grandpa two weeks ago, and I would like to spend more time with my family. It's hard to think about leaving them again. H doesn't like spending time with my family. That's just gotten worse. Even though this last weekend, they all came over, and we had a nice time.

I have so much to be grateful for. It is all a gift, and I know I'm not entitled to any of it. My mind feels so scattered. I don't feel like myself at all. I feel boxed in and trapped.

H and I are not getting along well. This darn food thing. Every meal is a problem. D11 lost 3 pounds last week. I think it was gradual and just showed up on the scale all of a sudden. We're exercising and getting good nutrition. My clothes are still tight, though. H is frustrated that I'm not getting weight loss surgery, because I considered it earlier this year, and then decided not to. I know that in the past when I've done what I'm doing now, I do get the weight off, even if it's slow.

I am concerned how much of this toxic environment the kids are exposed to. I haven't been pulling them out of the house when it gets wierd in there, because H is working and is only here on the weekends.

I need to go reread the chapters in You Don't Have To Take It Anymore that were helping me, especially the HEALs method. I fell out of the habit, and I've been just retreating. Feeling sorry for myself, which I haven't done in a long time. But I think it was for a reason. I forgot how critical H gets when I am not happy with him.

But a big part of me feels like this is just a bump in the road, that it's normal to feel stressed out right now, and that things will be okay. I am glad that I can come here and be around such great people doing such awesome things in their lives.

LA, I deleted that post you read. Like you have reminded me before, when we're in that child's mind of thinking, we see our choices as very limited. No, there is no affair. I was thinking of Plan B more as a way to get some serenity without having to work so hard for it every day. I get weary, and then I get refreshed again.

I am looking forward to your post tomorrow! Thanks for keeping in your thoughts and prayers. I'm glad to see over on AmI's thread that you've been getting serious with your health! I was wondering if it was related to what you went throughwith your parents' heath last year and this?

Our timing has changed, so I won't be flying through Colorado, to my brother's wedding in Santa Fe; I'll be driving from LA. But I can take a detour to Colorado on the way.

I've found that high-stress times (like moving across the entire country!) triggers us back to old routines...which makes sense. You're facing that vast unknown (moreso than daily unknown) so you're gonna reach for the deepest known...even if it is the unhealthy patterned knowns you have.

It's temporary.

It's just for right now.

And even as you do so...look...you are aware of it!

You weren't before...not even close.

Now you are. You aren't bad, wrong or ugly, EO. You're beautiful, whole and in high stress...reasonably.

Your lizard is lickin' up a storm. Makes sense.

Do you really think your H gets highly critical because you're not happy with him? What if he acts highly critical...

and you're not happy with him right now?

Two separate things?

Separate your feels from your thinks...You are choosing to see this as a bump in the road right now...for various factors...and you're identifying them...huge change...of environment (the move), changing your body, your perspective, your beliefs, your habits...oh, my...lots of change. And you nailed it...with your right now. And your choice to re-energize through MB...seeing where you aren't alone...you're human, reasonable and whole.

Great awareness and choices, in my book. I still haven't read Stosny's book. LOL. I'm reading "Change Your Brain, Change Your Life" by Dr. Amen. How 'bout that one?

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

((((((((((EO))))))))))))))

LA