hey folks...tonight i spoke to ww for first time in 2 weeks. happily i was solid and strong...

went over financials and house and car etc...i offered her a very fair deal...she agreed to everything AND

she cried hysterically through the whole conversation.

midway i asked her if she was ok...she said she couldn't really talk and didn't want to talk about herself. She said "i just miss you guys."

I said are you happy and ok where you are? she said not really.

I asked her what she wanted me to do with her things...she asked if i could keep her stuff...she has nowhere to put anything.

i asked her if she got a job or reupped...she said no.

we talked about visitation...i said absolutely fine...come on out to the house and see D - tomorrow if you like.

she said she has no car and no ride and asked if we could come see her if we didn't have plans.

I said that was ok for a little while.

we (the family) was invited to her uncles daughters birthday party... i told her about the invite - that d and i were going - and if she wanted to join us she was more then welcome...she said she didn't think she could do it right now.

hmmm....whats this all mean?

I have my personal boundaries well in place and felt pretty good...tried to be compassionate and kind without letting lines be crossed.

she didn't tell me where she was...so i suspect she was with OP...because she would have offered where she was if she wasn't there. I really feel ok...but what do you folks think is coming next?

ps...thoughts on how to talk to D about tomorrow..she has been confused. I am trying to be honest with her (obviously to a point - sometimes big people make choices that are hard to understand...i know it si sad - you can be sad - but you did nothing wrong, etc...)

I am worried about D - and her confusion level.

I was just looking for your thread, CL...checking up on you...and you popped up!

Tell me, your WW is crying hysterically...did you really mean "are you okay?" I'm not jumping on you...I'm wondering about the interaction...

How are you not continuing to take what is hers when you store her stuff? When you bring DD to her? Halfway, I understand...all the way, enabling.

Not respectful.

She is running away from herself...please don't help her to do that. Loving intent here...that's what was behind your questions, to show concern...not a Plan B...do you think?

Why the switch? Why would she be more than welcome to accompany her family which she has left for OM? For a fantasy?

Are you doing for her what you hope would be done for you if you were to lose yourself so greatly?

Or are you parenting, because your focus now is your DD and you are in that mode with your adult WW?

Just thought I'd add some thoughts to your day...

I didn't hear how you felt...

Being compassionate is not enabling...it is gently, respectfully saying "I know you'll be able to find some place for your stuff. I believe you're a resourceful woman." "I hear you're not choosing to talk right now about yourself. I respect your choice."

"I know you love DD and you will set up a solid schedule."

I'm sucking at this tonight...I trust you to know what I mean because you know I've said it so many times...

Listen to your DD more than speak...simple acknowledgements...hand holding...nodding...affirmation...you can't solve DD's feelings...and you know that...see the urged in yourself to do so...how much you desire to fix...people.

You're doing so well with so much heartache, CL. How are your interior thoughts doing? How's your heart? What's your blood pressure?

LOL

LA

thanks for responding so quick LA...

i did really mean "are you ok?" I really meant it for her...yes it is very hard to stop looking out for her and coddling her...she has asked that of me for a long time...and i have been happy to do it. I gotcha on the enabling part...this is a lesson for me to learn in my life i know. I grew up in an alcoholic dysfuntional home where enabling was the name of the game...and i have chosen to do this in my marriage...big trouble eh?

i felt sad for her...that she was hurting and i wanted to be compassionate to her pain...(although she has shown none for me - whats up with me??!!??)

i have never heard her in so much pain...and it took me by surprise. She is often a handful - emotionally charged - angry - but not this - so it threw me into "I will save you" mode.

I felt like i needed to jump into action. i know my problem - my issues. i didn't offer her any saviors though...although i guess coming to see her on her turf - may have done just that.

its very hard stuff...i was sad today missing her...friday you know...two whole days to steep in my own stuff...

You're not alone, CL! Enabling is learned behavior...unlearning is really tough!

Doesn't matter whether she's being compassionate to yours or not...your code isn't about her...it's about you...I'm asking you to redefine compassionate.

Hey, what about storing her stuff? You stepped over that one...

Notice how inaction doesn't seem like action to you?

Great to know you recognize this...you felt that charge for to jump on your white steed...hmmm...could it be that maybe you don't really buy you're equal to her, or that she's equal to you? Fully capable?

Her pain is her own...her feeling it tonight instead of running from it...might be great for her?

Like your sadness...grieving a lot of things...want to name any of them?

Yeah...I remember the weekend dread...yech!

Do you think that's why I stack all my questions up for ya?

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

LA

yeah i thought tonight was a good for her...
consequences for actions...action and reaction...

i was kind because i thought it was the right thing to do by my own code...honestly i don't expect compassion from her... i simply acted the way i know how...as the person i am.

yes she could store her stuff...that is a good idea.

perhaps i have believed she is less capable...have allowed her to be less capable - and taken on too much because of that belief. she told me she before we got married she just wanted someone else to carry the load for awhile - she had been through so much - i happily hoped on my white steed and agreed to it.

I guess the grieving is about reality...and the death of the dream

yech is right - i have never hated the weekend so much in my life. i know things are in a sad state when i am happy on Monday morning!!! although it pays off at work <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Death of expectation...wishes...maybe the wish that love really was earned...then she wouldn't have done this, huh?

Grieving old beliefs and even your childhood...sadness heals, CL...if you sit with it, know what it's telling you about you...it heals.

You heal you. How amazing is God's design?

'Course...our cells heal our cells, don't they? Repair and replenish? Our spirit revives...and our mind refreshes...

Okay, enough of me being slacked-jawed at creation...

If you believed without doubt that you were marvelously made...whole and complete...without a word spoken or an action taken...why would you need a steed?

What if you couldn't be wrong...what if you could just be?

LA

yea - death of expectations being enough..definitely - but i am healing and improving.

today - i will be just me...nothing more - no savior - no white knight - no steed necessary. i let you know how it goes.

Thank you for posting, CL...and I pray you'll find there is no "just me"...but you are an abundance...being you.

Good luck today...there's a freedom and a loss involved with putting the steed out to pasture...may your day be free.

LA

CL,

Could you please keep your posts on one thread, like the main one you started? It is easier for people to follow your sitch that way.

Thanx.

P.S. I agree with LA. You should not make this any easier for WW than necessary. With the exception of allowing WW to see DD regularly, I think you should let her feel and face the consequences of her actions.

hey UVA - yep - i will keep to one thread.

Yesterday was tough - very tough. She was pleasant but clearly unhappy and scared. I did not white knight it though - although it was hard.

she said she really missed us and was very happy to see us. She said she pretty much hated everyone....everyone is talking about her at work and she is "the a**hole" (which hey if the shoe fits, right?)

She said she can't talk to anyone, not her father or aunts or friends...because everyone knows what she has done. I told her that wasn't true - that she was choosing to not speak - that these people love and care about her. she said she didn't want to here people telling her what she should do.

She talked about having no job and being scared about that...and mostly about how she has no money. she tossed in a couple of coments about being really confused - but would not elaborate.

she asked what we were doing today...and next weekend...and the weekend after that. I told her we were busy today...we would work out next weekend. She said she had no plans to do anything - had no money.

D asked her if she was coming home...w said no...that she couldn't.

we spent a couple of hours together...and it was pretty painful.

She did not mention who she was staying with...or talk about OP at all...just money and job and about how she has nowhere to put anything. I did mention stoing her stuff...and she said whatever was best...but she didn't know if she could afford it. I asked about her cats and if she was going to pick them up...again she has nowhere for them.

then she kissed me on the cheek and that was it.

so whats the temperature gauge on this one???

it was pretty devastating for me - yes i guess i am choosing to love her - but it doesn't feel like a choice - what now? How do i handle this and her wanting to see me?

I know i can't make this easy on her...I know she is feeling the consequences...

what do you folks think is going on with OM - why doesn't she have a ride? a place to put her stuff? etc...

hey LA - yes i am abundantly me...currently an abundantly unhappy me.

i know i am not supposed to focus on her behavior - but what does all of this mean? it was incredibly difficult...seeing her yesterday - i just want to call her and talk to her...i friggin miss her and so does d. i feel like it was a big backslide for me - and understand the concept of plan b in full force now.

but really what do you kind MBing crew think is going on with Op?

CL,

I'll be frank, until you hear otherwise and you have not, her behavior means NOTHING to you. SHe is just sad that everything is NOT going her way, but she is not taking responsibility for anything, not the cats, not your daughter, not the marriage, not your feelings, not where she is, nor her job situation. NOTHING has changed CL, it is all someone elses fault. Just because you did not hear the words "it is all your fault"... THIS TIME doesn't mean she does think that.

Notice she feels no responsibility to be part of her family's life either. Won't talk to them, either. Woooo is meeeeeee. Until this changes nothing has changed, keep on with your life, take care of your daughter, build a better life and move on.

IF things change she will let you know and then you will have some very tough decisions to make, but don't bet on it. Your job is to create a good life for yourself and your D. Now listen to this and listen carefully, IF you want your daughter happy, then YOU MUST become happy. She will feed off of you, and emulate you, and lean on you. YOU MUST begin to build a life you enjoy and that includes weekends. IT will help your daughter tremendously.

Please think about this.

God Bless,

JL

thank you JL - it exactly what i needed to hear...every word...thankyou. it is not even something i need to think about...it is what i am going to do.

In my discussion with ww I told her she could have the car to sell or keep as she wants. She told me she would like to sell it...i told her I would leave it for her and she could pick it up and do what she needed to do. She could tell me where the title paper work was and I would go sign it...

Now she tells me she has noone to help her with the sale - or to give her a ride or anything and since I need to sign some of the papers - could I help her???

I gotta say - i am exhausted from double parent duty...i am currently driving 2 hours each way to work to get my daughter to my sisters house....working all day long - high pressure stress job...and her needing money and selling the car is at the bottom of my priority list.

any thoughts on this...her expectations of what i should do for her are ridiculous.

why isn't op helping her with her life???

cl...she is currently doing the one legged balancing act on the tallest fencepost between her former life with you and the new life with the OP. She is teetering and tottering, and although she's put herself at great risk, she continues to try to maintain "balance" between these two lives. Everyone but her can see it's not working.

Put your white knight on a shelf for a while, and let her fall. She should not be denied the consequences of her own actions. Right now she is the Queen of her own pity party. My humble advice would be to do nothing, other than allow her to COME to your daughter for visitations. Any other help would be enabling her desire to continue the fence sitting.

It would not hurt to remind her that her situation is of her own making, should you be able to word it without love-busting. Likewise, you can let her know there is a place for her in your life, so long as she agrees to whatever criteria you set forth. In fact you might want to write your criteria down, and memorize it, or carry the list in your wallet, so that if she wants to know what it takes to return to the marriage, you have it at your fingertips. (ie, No Contact with OM, quitting her job, IC, MC; the list is yours, make it whatever you want)

cl, you are fighting the good fight, taking the "high road" and doing this in the fair and proper way. Take credit for your resolve and success this far. Know that what you are doing is, as Bob Pure puts it, a "heros gig".

One other suggestion...leave DD with your parents or a trusted friend for a weekend and go do something for cl, totally recreational, and take a break from the drama!

Best wishes,
SD

CL -

Like my WW, your WW is a resourceful, intelligent and capable individual who is used to relying on you to do things she can full well do herself.

You may or may not be like me - I've always tried to 'save' my wife. Make things easier for her - emotionally, physically, financially. Through this I've learned that she is able to shoulder much more than I ever gave her credit for but rarely has because I always rushed in to fill the gap. It's hard not to when she's asking me to help. I support but I don't do. There's a difference.

Does any of this resonate? Your WW will figure it out. Without you.

AINT THIS THE TRUTH! It is horrible to watch - but there is not a thing i can do about it.

Yes - I have been filling in the gaps for her since we met and i am guessing Op is not willing to rush in and fill the gaps - or else she would gladly have him picking up these pieces for her...

my grandmother use to say "there are those who do and those who let them..." I keep hearing this in the back of my brain...

So shattered Thanks - good advice...i have been getting better and better with drawing lines in the sand. she is just NUTS with the requests she makes after screwing me over so badly - and D it is almost laughable...

i have shown compassion...but can not DO for her anymore.

I'll keep that list of criteria to come home in my wallet...but i don't think it is going to happen - unless she falls off that mighty fence post and lands hard.

I'll keep that list of criteria to come home in my wallet...but i don't think it is going to happen - unless she falls off that mighty fence post and lands hard.

:::grins::: that's exactly where she's headed! Stay the course!

SD