Post deleted by TroubledH

First, are you in counseling??? If not, please get some. Second, did you show sincere remorse to your wife about the Affair?? My husband did and it had a major impact on how I was able to forgive him. I was able to see a new man emerge before my eyes....kinda like from a worm to a butterfly....I needed that.

Please remember that your wife is on the biggest emotional roller coaster of her life. The unimaginable has happened to her. Her heart has been ripped out of her chest and you have stomped on it. I cried everyday for months about this mess but it has lessened to about once a month (maybe). She needs time, compassion, and patience. Please be patient with her. This should be easy if you sincerely are remorseful about what has happened. Answer all of her questions honestly and keep her informed of EVERYTHING that goes on between you and OW.

My son once asked me if I "was gonna love dad's spawn" WOW!!! what a question...I said I would try but I could never love anyone as much as I love him and his sister (my children) but honestly, I love OC like she was mine (she should have been mine) I held her the day she was born. I bonded with this child....

Your wife needs time. Please be patient with her. It will get better. Please keep us posted on your progress. I am praying for you!!!

Post deleted by TroubledH

My H had a LTA of 5 years and the OC is now 4 months old. I have yet to meet him cuz of FOW's issues, but the plan is to finally meet him next month.

My H obviously wants to be involved in this child's life. I accept that but am not happy about the whole situation. And I'm 10 months from d-day.

One way to think of it is, you (and your OW) had 4 years together, you both knew what was going on. Your wife has know for 4 months---big difference. She is on that emotional rollar coaster you've heard about and it's up to you to make her feel safe, wanted, and that you can be trusted--hopefully it won't take 4 years!! But 4 months is too short a time to expect her to come to any kind of terms with such a traumatic and ongoing thing.

The conference calls or 3 way calls are a good idea--but if your wife can't deal with it right now, then so be it. I knew from the beginning that I could separate the OC from the OW and the A--but that's not to say it's easy. It's the hardest thing I've ever done in my life, and I haven't even met the child yet. But my H is behind me and remorseful and in counseling with me--and it's still bad at times, with plenty of meltdowns and accusations against H and OW and the life that was chosen for me without my consent or knowledge.

So, give it time. Continue with never being with the FOW and child alone. There is no "how long is too long"--totally depends on the individuals. It's said that it takes 1-2 years to recover from the affair fallout--and that doesn't refer to situations where there is an OC and because of the OC, continued contact with OW. Good luck and keep posting.

Hmmmm if my H had even demanded anything from me, I would of demanded him out the door!!!

But I wonder how would you feel if the shoe was on the other foot? If she was the one that lied to you for years and had a A and got pregnant with the OM child, how would it feel to you? Would 4 months be enough for you? Can you just jump right in without trying to adjust your feelings of the one worst thing your love could do to you and automatically except that child and love it right from the beginning?

I am not saying that to be mean but I think you are pushing your wife to fast. If you even had the tinest inkling of the feelings that she is going thru then you would understand.

Some one here told me the first time that it takes 2 years to get over a A and that is without a child involved.

I think your wife really wants to try, but you might be pushing to fast. The ball is really in her park. And it has to be at her pace. You have a long way down the road to go to gain her trust again. You need to make sure she hears over and over again how sorry you are, and how much you love her, you cant say that enough. She needs to know and she needs to see that you are putting 100% into your commiment to make it work. Even MC will tell you that you need to put your spouse first because your children will grow and move on with their lives, and then it will be the two of you again.


Most on here have it that contact with OW can ONLY be about OC, nothing more, that all calls should be made while she is in the room while you are on the phone. If she calls while your W is gone then to let her know the minute she gets home. Do not hide any conersation with OW. Be very upfront with your wife. Maybe even consider for a while that OC will be picked up and dropped off at a thrid party house. Like GP or something.

If you have read many of the other posts on here you will see that the ones that have decided to have C with OC that they have come to love the OC on their own terms at their own pace.

It is going to be hard for you, but you have a lot of work in front of you to rebuild your marriage, the work is nothing compared to what the BS has to go thru in trying to forgive and heal from the pain.

Open the lines of communications, be very honest with her, talk about everything under the sun and really listen
to her. When you talk about the A and she gets angry take the blame, take full responsibilty for your action. Because there is no excuse for a A. And she will need to talk about it. She will ask question, calmly tell her about it, and dont hide your feeling if you feel remorse. Those talks will slow down after a while.

Start doing little unexpected things for her. Call her from work just to say hi, hide a little love note or even just a scrap of paper with the words I love you on it somewhere that she will find it. While on the couch pull her closer to you, in the car reach over and take her hand.

Realize that for a while she is not going to trust you. Be where you say your going to be, if plans change call. You will need to earn her trust back.

Once she feels more comfortable that you do love her and not going to repeat the A and that you want her more then anything she will come around. Just to bad that you didnt tell her while OW was pregnant, then you guys would of had those months to dedicate 100% to the marriage.

Post deleted by TroubledH

Post deleted by TroubledH

Dr. Harley wrote two books that were very helpful to me "His Needs, Her Needs" and "How to Survive an Affair". A great investment.

In the beginning, I found out that my sister-in-law knew about the A and never told me. She also told my husband that he should do "whatever made him happy" The A was happiness in the minute, not the love of a lifetime....BUT I felt an enormous amount of anger and betrayal to my sister in law for that. Your wife may also be experiencing that also. She needs support from your parents also.

I'm sure your parents position is "blood is thicker than water" in regards to their grandchild. That is normal. Your wife just needs time. How much time? No one can determine that. You can help by being a good, loving, and helpful husband to her. Read the books, read through the boards here....be patient.

The thought of me loving the child did not come instantaneously. I mean, how could I LOVE the child, the living, breathing proof that represents the time my husband shared with OW? It takes a strong person to separate that from the innocent victim that your daughter really is. Your wife may not be that strong YET. She knows your committment to the OC...since she is this committed to staying together and she loves you...she just needs more time.

Find another counselor that you are happy with. It has done wonders for my marriage.

Again, you are in my prayers.

It appears to me from your posts, that you respect the OW here more than your wife. I find that not only in the above comment.

I agree with the others that you have alot of work to do in your marriage first - if the marriage is truly what you want.

You may use the "great dad" stance in defending your desire to be involved in OC's life...but a great dad would not have hurt your COM the way that you did. At the risk of being harsh, TH..it seems to me, that you need more work and changing before you can even begin to relay to anyone that your W isn't meeting your "demands".

Respectfully,

Eibrab

In the beginning I just wanted someone to talk to. Someone to tell me I was OK and not crazy for some of my crazy ideas. I wanted someone to share my dreams with. I wanted that person to be my wife for 4 years! I wanted her respect and acknowledge me as the head of the household who was looking out for the best interest of the family.

I was not perfect in the first 4 years, but I did try very hard to reach out to my W. I did my best to provide for my family just to be told it was not enough. I tell you, it killed me inside. I never imagined when I got married that I would cheat on my wife.


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

After reading Dr. Harley's above mentioned books, I saw that I failed in so many areas of our marriage too. That does NOT excuse an affair but it did help me heal in knowing what I did and what I can do to improve our marriage.

I am a strong advocate in fighting for the marriage...but if you feel this way.... Hmmmm if my H had even demanded anything from me, I would of demanded him out the door!!!


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



In truth, I was ready for that. A big part really wanted that.


What makes you sure you don't still....??? In truth, are you looking for a way out??? I am asking because you are bringing up issues in the past that sound like justification. I don't want to sound harsh.

The right way is not always the easy way. Since you mentioned going to church, please pray for a peaceful solution, and accept it when God gives it. It may not be your way but it will be His. Accept the things you cannot change. Your wife may agree that you should have C but then again she will not like the fact that you leave her side for it. I know I did not and that is how I became more accepting of the situation...I wanted to be there. I wanted my children to know their sibiling.

Read the books...the boards...get educated on this...encourage your wife to do the same....

Prayers...

Wow, you are a rare bird. A real live MM baby daddy on a recovery site. We dont see many of them.

First off, your wife is not stopping you from seeing your daughter. She is just not ready yet to go there herself or for her children too. it is really quite understandable given that d-day was only 4 months ago.

You really do need to understand what you and your OW's actions have done to her. Everything that she once thought was solid and true and dependable in her life, you have turned into a lie. Every memory she has of the last 4 years you have tainted with your actions. Every happy moment, every vacation, every romatic night, everytime you have been emotionally or physically intimate, you have destroyed. You have usurped her rightful place as the mother of your children and forced her to share that role with a woman who tried to steal her life (and that YOU invited too). The fact that she has chosen to try and rebuild with you speaks volumes about her strength of character. I hope you have some inkling of the amazing woman you have married.

Right now your wife is not able to seperate the idea of the child from the idea of the other woman. For some it is a process that can take some time. It is your job as the man who put her into this mess to work with her to find to help her do that. Demanding after 4 months that you play happy families is not the way to do that.

right now she cant even imagine the idea of the OW in her life for the next 15 odd years. The thought is too horrifying to even contemplate. It is your job then, if you really want to intergrate this child into your "real" family (for lack of a better word) how you can do that. It is possible but it will take a while for her to see it and a while after that for her to beleive it. Right now, why should she trust you to keep her and the children's hearts safe?

I do get the sense though, from reading what you have posted that there is still some justifcations in your thinking. In fact i kind of sense you dont really want to be there at all. The fact that she decided to not kick you to the curb might have put a crimp in your plans of getting out of the marriage. Did you think that by telling her, she would then make the decision to end the marraige and then you wouldnt have to?

Working on the ages of your children, it seems your affair started when your wife was mid term with your 2nd child. You have said that she didnt listen to you, she wasnt there for you and OW was. You wanted someone to listen to your dreams and beleive in them with you. I dont mean to sound harsh but do you have any idea how childish that sounds?

You have said that you wanted to be respected as the head of the household, looking after the best interests of your family. How exactly have you demonstrated an apptitude to that role?

Some times life is bumpy. Sometimes we dont get what we want. Sometimes we have to compromise. Sometimes we have to grow up. A leader knows that.

You are to be congratulated though for reaching out and seeking help. If you really are serious in wanting to rebuild with your wife you are in the right place. There are alot of people here who are more than willing to assist.
If however you are looking for approval for leaving your wife becuase she hasnt thrown her arms around the oc, then you will not find that here.

Finally, i would suggest that you tell your wife about this site and see if she would be interested in joining. This will be a very lonely road for her. I am sure she could use the support.

Carolyn

You have lied to your wife for years, betrayed her and ignored your children with her to have an affair, and hide the truth of who you really are......then expect compassion from her...for you? Where in the heck is your compassion for her? She trusted you and you are a liar who seems to care little for his wife and family. Your swipes are passive aggressive and childish, might I even say other womanish?

You are putting the oc above everyone? Fine, then divorce your poor suffering wife and let her find a man who will respect her and care for her and YOUR other children, since you obviously don't care enough. Afterall, your children with your wife are innocent too. Nice of you to rip their family apart all for one.

Where and how are you taking any responsiblity here? You blame your wife left and right, and you say your parents wonder why you haven't divorced your wife??? Nice set they are, do they not honor family at all? Hmmmm.

You say your wife is happy, but YOU feel neglected and disprespected? Funny, You are the one who had negelected your wife and kids and shown her nothing but disprespect with you whining about the ow/oc. What about you is there to respect?????

You go to counseling and the one YOU say was good, all you quote is the remark about "divorce happens" as if that counselor was a good one. THEN you whine about the other one who says marriage above all else. ALL you see is that will EMBOLDEN THE WIFE TO TAKE A HARDER STANCE????? Can you even be for real????????????

Your wife has been hurt terribly by a person she thought she could trust.

Personally, after reading your drivel, I would LOVE to call your wife and help HER. She needs to stand up and fight for what SHE will put up with in HER LIFE. Until you grow some balls and really work at gaining her trust back and listening to HER pain, and put HER needs above all others, and yes, this means the oc, you are not worth being married to.

Sometimes I wonder if you are just an ow pretending....it is all so full of hate to the wife, disrespectfull to the children of the marriage, and totally accomodating to the ow/oc.

MOST men are disgusted with the hurt and harm they have done to their families and aggressively protect them. YOU don't do that at all.

So, go be with the ow, and the oc. Let your wife find a man who will cherish her and protect her from those who would do her harm, and to help her raise your children.

I am 2 years and 3 months past D-day. And 1 year 8 months from when recovery actually started (he stopped talking to OW and really committed to me). It is only NOW, that I am starting to feel like I can really go on with my marriage. And my H affair was only 1 year long (not 4!) and we do not have contact with OW/OC. My in-laws were also pushing for him to leave me and developed a relationship with OW, even before I knew about the A or OC was born. The disowned him when he stayed with his family.

My point is, your W needs lots more time and lots more understanding, devotion, contrition, love, security, remorse, accomodation of wishes and loyalty from you to help HER heal. An affair is a deep wound. A long term affair and a baby on top of it is an abyss of hurt! It will take her a long time to crawl back up to ground level and YOU need to help her.

If you can't help her, or expect speed recovery.......it will not happen at all. I agree with others that it sounds like you would just as soon be with OW/OC as stay in your marriage. It would probably be easier on YOU to just leave. Staying is going to be hard work and patience for you, so you need to be sure you love your wife more than anything. Including OC, for now.

I think it is outstanding that you would come here and try to find out how to help your wife and save your marriage. There are very experienced people on this board. But it may not always be to your liking or your timetable, so be patient. Set aside your pride and sense of what is right for you and really listen to your wife. Really see her as a woman you loved and the rightful mother of your children and see if you can find compassion for her and FEEL the devastation she feels.

She will not believe that OW is really giving up her efforts to take her place and break up her family. She does not trust either of you and that will take years (sorry!) to replace.......with your best efforts at gaining the trust. 4 years is a very long time to be lied to and cheated on. She will feel like a fool.

Do you really love your wife and your family and are ready to do anything to keep them? I hope you are, or let them go. It sounds as if you are not truly committed to that and if she doesn't do what you wish, you will leave. This is a terrible feeling for her!!! There are no good choices for her. Only the least bad ones as she sees it.

Give her time to see what she is really capable of doing. Love her and show her you will be true to her.

Please do NOT stop posting here because you might not like the responses...and I'm not going to pull my punches because of it....but here goes:

You are very much still ME ME ME, I I I.....dunno if you'll ever NOT be that way....but if you want ANY kind of marriage (whether it be with this wife or another) you needs to pull your head out of your bahooba and start thinking US US US, WE WE WE.

Can you do it? Yessirreebob. BTDT, we (the Wookie and I) have matching Tshirts.

You sound EXACTLY like the Wookie used to.

Don't underestimate your wife. You've laid waste to 4 years of her life....she questions everything's meaning now...including what she wants for lunch.

YOU DID THIS TO HER! Period. Doesn't matter a whit what your reasons were...this is on you bubs.

And your ultimatiums are a crock of horse turds right now.

(snort) "I'll divorce b4 NC..."

WHATEVER.

THE DECISION FOR NC HAS NOT BEEN SET IN STONE YET...both, you got that??? BOTH of you have a helluva lot of healing to do before you even GET to the point of deciding whether or not to NC.

I suggest you BOTH start reading up on POJAing and implementing it into your daily lives....this part of it all is the CEMENT that will make or break your foundation to have (or have no) contact.

You ARE welcome here. Very muchly so. Believe me, the Wookie thought our marriage was unsavable...

- Kimmy

Are you still in love with her? If so, then spare your wife...and leave.



You made the decision to the have the affair. Now it is time to make the right decision and decide where you want to be. You tell her that you want a relationship with your daughter...and because her answer is "of course" then you rethink whether you want to stay in the marriage? The reasons to stay in a marriage have nothing to do with how she accepts your child from an affair...it has to do with whether you want to be married, and whether you love your wife, because irregardless of anything else, those are the important elements.



You have no problems accepting the OW's stipulations, irregardless of how demanding, but can't fathom your wife's discontent? You do sound as though you have more respect for the OW. Did you consider the circumstances your wife and children have been placed in? Did you understand that?
What were some of the stipulations made by the OW?



I can understand you wanting to have a relationship with your daughter, that's your perogative, but if divorce is what you want, don't wait for her, go for it. Don't put her through a whole bunch of foolishness. You say you don't want to abandon your daughter, but you have no problems abandoning your wife and sons. You did that when you had the affair. They are family too.

Just as the OW has stipulations concerning your daughter, and considering the circumstances, you agreed and understood...I don't understand why you can't understand that your wife has stipulations concerning your son's and considering the circumstances, you can't agree and understand.

What I'm hearing from you has nothing to do with your daughter, in my opinion. I think your still in love with the OW, and your looking for your wife to do the hard work and divorce you. Listen, if your not happy and your pining away for another woman, you will be doing your wife a favor by leaving. This would give her an opportunity to find the love and support that she deserves. With that decision comes repercussions. These repercussions are all YOUR fault. I don't care how uncommunicative or how anything your wife was, she was your wife, and if you wanted something else, you should have been man enough to leave. I feel so very sorry for her and your son's because I'm not getting the impression that their best interest is in your heart. I understand that you have daughter and that you want her in your life, but due to the circumstances, that's not going to be any easy transition. You and the OW made one ****** of a bed.

If I have any sympathy, I have it for your W and your COMs...you and the OW seem to be looking for the OC, you seem to be focused on her. Let me ask you a question...how do you think your son's will feel? Because Daddy fooled around, our family is now separated? Does that matter?

What makes you think your wife ought to be trusting of your motives at this time?

You have not yet earned the trust ... and without THAT in place ... she ought NOT to committ herself to raising the child of your affair.

Once YOU prove YOU can be trusted ... then ask the question "What about OC visitation?"

Step one:

[color:"red"] repair the marriage first [/color]

and for a time, that might mean no contact with OC

You are asking too much at one time.

[color:"red"] FIX your marriage first [/color]

once your wife feels safe & protected

then discuss contact with OC

this is the doo-doo you have made for OC & your children of the marriage ....
any suffering the children experience, is NOT dealt by your W's hand, it is responsible solely to your decision to become an adulteror


Pep

Troubled - - Yes you are to put it mildly and not just because of this issue. It's obvious given what nonsense you've written here, you don't have a flipping clue.

Your wife should kick your [censored] to the curb and let you go about your self-destructing, as that's where you're headed.

I didn't read everything on this thread yet, but read enough of your first two posts to know that anything you post after, if indeed you're showing some humbleness, will be out of the fact that you are trying to swim upstream and wish you'd started from a different place with this thread. Perhaps you'll learn something, but it's my guess not. You have ATTITUDE and not the right kind.

First I want to say i was just floored to read that both set of in-laws felt this way!!!! Guess it is no surprise that there was cheating going on, for what kind of family morals and decency did they install into their children?!?

LBelle I am so sorry to hear that, but so glad that your husband did the right thing and chose his family first! I am a firm believer that once you become married that your wife and children become first in your life, over your parents and others, because now they are your family.

I too got the impression that OW/OC is coming first, it does sound that he is placing his OC over his COM. The "good daddy stance" dosnt work for me. Cause where have you thought of them first??? You have not set them a good example of being a good father, and how do you think they will feel that you choose OC over them.

You should also need to think ahead to what the courts might think of you as a parent. If you enter the divorce arena in the midst of infidelity, you have put your children in play. Again, ask yourself, is it worth it?

I see you say I am sorry for what I did, I want to make it work......BUT.... there is no but. What you did was very wrong. It is time to accept responsibility with no buts, you need to have the decency to tell your spouse in all honesty that it was your choice. You're the one who ran this relationship off in the ditch. This had nothing to do with her. She is not the one who made the decision to break your commitment to her and cheat. She has nothing to do with making the immature, inappropriate, self-destructive choice to turn away from her to someone else. You have to accept responsibility and do whatever it takes to earn your partner's trust back one step at a time.

Your needs and wants are on the back burner. Be mature enough to recognize that life is not always all about you and what feels good for you in the moment. If you are married and have children, you have an obligation and a commitment that goes way beyond what feels good to you. You thought of only yourself and now you have ruined many lives. Because of that you have made your bed and now need to do whatever to correct it.

My husband had a one night stand, I am 1 year 8 months into DD, 6 months since we both found out about OC, it has been a long road, a very hard one. My H put us first, he has done every thing in his power to make it up to us. And tho it is father apart, it still has its ups and downs with the pain and memory. At 4 months I was still a basket cake. Am I happy that I made the decsion to stay and work it out? Yes! There is hope at the end of the tunnel if you get your priorites straight and are willing to do the work to repair it, however long it takes!

3 quotes I have burned in my mind that I really believe

1. "You get what you give. When you give better, you get better."

2. "If you want to have a good partner, be a good partner. Put 100 percent into your marriage"

3. "Time heals nothing. It is what you do with the time that matters"



I too am a strong advocate of marriage, I am still here fighting for my marriage, I went thru thru all that horriable pain that you do know about, it would of been so much easier to leave, I would of gotten over it alot faster, but I didnt because of my belief in marriage, but I also believe that I should be treated with respect and dignity that I deserve, and that I show to him. It is a 2 way street.

Post deleted by TroubledH

You said you wanted honest responses so here goes:

It seems to me from your posts that you were (and possibly still are) hoping your wife would do the "dirty work" and demand a divorce. You have given her more or less an ultimatum so that she has to accept OC or end the marriage.

You appear to me to be trying to come out of this horrible mess you have created (for your W, your COM and your OC)as some sort of noble good guy.

I think your first step should be to be truly honest with yourself about your feelings, motives and priorities. Stop BSing yourself! You thought only of yourself by having an A and created this mess - so try now thinking about your wife and giving her what she needs!!