Hi this is my first post on MB. I have been lurking the forum for a while but this is the first time I have gotten up the courage to ask a question.

DH and I have been married for a year and we are expecting our first child together early next month. The conflict we have is about friend's of the opposite sex. I don't believe in making friend's of the opposite sex but he does! I tend to think tha having friend's of the opposite sex will only create problems for a marriage eventually.

Well here is the story. It seems that everytime DH starts a new job he has to make friend's with everyone on the job. I don't have a problem with the fact that he likes to be friendly but where is he supposed to draw the line?

Example 1: Since I have been pregnant DH has been extra nice to me. He has been doing a lot around the house (because I can't) and he buys me flowers and gifts all of the time. The problem is that he goes to work and tells his co-workers about what he does. He will go out on lunch and buy a gift for me then show it to all of his co-workers. Then he comes home and tells me how this one woman in particular keeps telling him that she wishes her boyfriend was as good to her as he is to me. If he told me this one time I wouldn't mind so much but its like everytime he does something for me he has a comment about what she had to say about it. Next, I find out from a friend of his (he got his friend a job recently) that he sits right next to her.

Next example: There is a woman who sits on the other side of him and she is married. Around the time of my baby shower he brings home a gift for me from this woman! It was a really nice gift basket full of bath products and I know it wasn't cheap because I frequent the same store. The entire basket was likely in the $60-80 range. Not an arm and a leg but why would a woman who I have never met in my life buy ME a present like that?

I tried to be gracious about it and I sent her a thank you card but it didn't sit well with me.

Fast forward to today. I was on the couch watching a movie and he was on the computer. After a while I fell aslepp and when I woke up I noticed he was on the AIM. No big deal because I know that there is a guy at his job that he trades music and movies with and he has a much younger sister living abroad so I am used to seeing him on the AIM. The thing is that he was behaving rather secretively once he noticed I had opened my eyes. You know how you minimize the little window and when you get a message it will flash orange in the task bar? Well it was flashing and he was comletely ignoring it. Which I felt was unusual for him becuase he always tells me bits about his conversations and the windows are usually wide open. So I sit there waiting to see what he is going to do. He starts talking to me but it's like he is being abnormally cheerful. All the while this message is flashing and flashing.

So I sit there waiting to see what he is going to do. I wait a while and he goes back to downloading some stuff then I see him trying to sneak and open the window really quickly. He opens the window briefly and writes a 3 word sentence then close it really fast. It pops open again and he writes another really short response and then he logs off!

I got suspicious immediately because I noticed that the icon wasn't one of the ones I recognize from his usual IM buddies. I asked him calmly who were you talking too? He tells he who it was (the married woman from his job). Then I asked why was he being so secretive about it? I said you never hide the messages or log off when you are talking to (insert male name here) what are you trying to hide? He says nothing...I didn't have to log off she said she had to get back to work. Then he asks me if I want to see their IM conversation. I said no because I knew he was BS me because once you log off the conversation is gone.

Anyway I got really p/o and I walked away. He follows me into the bedroom and trys to act like everything is fine. He is like "do you want something to drink? Are you still tired? Do you want me to get you something from outside?" I told him to No. Anyway about an hour ago he approaches me again with his 21 questions and I am ignoring him becuase all of this is stewing in my head and I wasn't sure about what I was going to say to him. He ask me if something is wrong and I just blew up. I told him of course something is wrong why are you acting like there isn't?

He says "oh, you mean that IM?" I am like YES THAT IM! And iF you know then WHY are you acting like everything is fine? I said "First of all why are you acting all secretive and logging off like a guilty person when I wake up? and second what is it that the two of you could possibly have to talk about when you sit right next to each other at work for 8 hours every single damn day?"

I think he was stunned becuase I never raise my voice. He didn't say anything he was going to the store for us and he left a little while ago.

I don't know if I am overreacting but something isn't sitting right with me. I think his relationship with his female co-workers is inappropriate. I don't like the idea of him discussing our personal life with them at all. I don't see why they need to know anything about me or our relationship. I also don't see why he needs to speak to any of them during non-working hours when they all sit side-by-side all day long.

Am I wrong for feeling this way? How do I handle this? Sorry for the super-duper long post I didn't think it was going to get this long.

Almondeyes,

I don't think you overreacted, raging pregnancy hormones or not. It is NOT appropriate nor necessary in my opinion for him to be chatting so intimately with other women, either at work or especially once he is home.

I wonder if he would be so cavalier if situations were reversed and you were chatting with other men like this? Maybe you should ask him that.

Unfortunately there seems to be a high percentage of men who have As when their wives are pregnant. I'm not saying this has happened in your case but the red flags are there. Trust your instincts in this matter, don't let him try to distract you with fancy presents or other gestures. When a man goes overboard in being thoughtful and giving gifts, I have to wonder if it's prompted by a guilty conscience.

However, I wouldn't make a big deal about the shower gift from the one woman, she may have gotten it as a gift from someone else and is just "regifting" so you can't assume anything about cost. If it bothers you, just pass it on to someone else who can use it.

You have a powerful ally and that is his friend who is apparently willing to report on your DH's activities at work. You might enlist this friend in your confidence and just explain that, while maybe your hormones are running wild, you need to know if DH is doing something you should know about. If this guy is honorable and knows something, your sweet and wide-eyed plea may tug at his conscience. If he doesn't know anything, he may still agree to be more observant from now on and report back to you.

And if this friend tells DH that you requested he spy on DH and report back, so what. That may make DH cool his jets and straighten up at work so either way you win.

I think it's important to be proactive and take a firm stance here. Tell DH how his actions hurt you. Ask him to be considerate of your feelings for a change and even if everything is totally platonic with the gals at work, the fact he ignores your feelings says much more. Would he stand for you being just as chummy with other men? I doubt it.

Another thing you can do, though to some it may fall into the realm of underhanded, is pose as your husband on AIM (if you know his name and p/w) when he is gone or busy with something else, and see if you get messaged, and by whom. Just be prepared for anything if you try this route. Some believe ignorance is bliss, but I am not one of these folks.

Wishing you the best,

~Silverwraith

Thank you Silverwraith.

Ugh I am so aggravated I wrote a book length post about what happened and it got lost!

Long story short....He tried to act like nothing happened when he came back from the store but I was so angry I was having none of that. After hours of him trying to initiate conversations with me about everything but the AIM thing and him trying to be all touchy feeling with me and me rejecting him he finally tells me that he has something to say to me. He apologized and gave me this long speech about not wanting to upset me and then he told me that she contacted him first. Next he asked me if I didn't trust him. I blew up and asked him what does trust have to do with this? Also, again why do you have to have conversations with some woman that you work with 8 hours per day once you reach home? What could the two of you possibly have to speak about? He apologized and said he wouldn't speak to her again if it made me uncomfortable which is fine if he isn’t lying but I don't think he gets it. It’s a respect issue and it’s about not putting yourself into a compromising situation with a member of the opposite sex and that is what he doesn’t understand.

Again he asked me if I wanted to see the conversations because they are oh so innocent. He told me he uses a program called Trillion and that it keeps a log of all of his AIM, Yahoo, and MSN IM's. At that moment I ignored him because I wanted to look at this log w/o him leaning over my shoulder or sitting at the computer trying to conceal what I was going to see. Later that night I checked his trillion logs and I found all of the conversations he has had with this woman since he installed the program.

I am angrier more now than ever! Yes she did initiate the conversation on Sunday but all of their previous conversations were initiated by him! So of course she feels free to contact him at home. Why shouldn't she when he has encouraged her from the start? Some of the conversations it's like she doesn't even want to speak with him or she cuts him off and tells him that she has to go back to work. This really burns me up...he has no boundaries about appropriate behavior with his female co-workers. Also where was I when he initiated these conversations? I have never seen him try to speak with her when I am around…only when I not at home or I am asleep. He is being sneaky and that pisses me off!

I copied and pasted all of the conversations, there were only 4, and I am posting them here.

What makes me madder than mad is that in one conversation she says she wants to talk to him and he asked her if it is work related? Like what else could they have to speak about besides work? So this means they must talk about their personal lives as well. This totally crosses the line for me.

P.S I changed all names to protect our identities.

Session Start (DH:OW): Fri Jun 02 12:09:22 2006
[12:09] DH: hey
[12:09] DH: did u get the cd?
Session Close (OW): Fri Jun 02 12:12:31 2006


Session Start (DH:OW): Fri Jun 02 17:00:14 2006
[17:00] DH: hey, what's up it's DH
[17:00] DH: did u get the cd i left u
[17:00] OW: yes i did thank you
[17:00] OW: u r the mann
[17:01] DH: naw...not me
[17:01] OW: hey ur in tomorrow right?
[17:01] DH: yes
[17:01] OW: ok gotta talk to u
[17:01] DH: about?
[17:01] DH: is everything ok?
[17:01] OW: lol...nothing work realated
[17:02] DH: ok
[17:02] DH: cool
[17:02] OW: no sorry ..it is work realted
[17:02] DH: ok
[17:02] DH: sounds like ur losing it
[17:03] OW: im tryna complete my work b4 i leave, im noticing some of my crap is coming back to bite me in my [censored]
[17:03] OW: not good
[17:03] OW: so we'll talk tommorrow
[17:03] DH: ok
[17:04] DH: no problem
Session Close (OW): Fri Jun 02 17:05:19 2006


Session Start (DH:OW): Mon Jun 26 17:38:30 2006
[17:38] DH: u still there?
[17:38] DH: man u must like The Job
[17:38] OW: i know right....gotta get this work done
[17:39] OW: so what cuz u home u think u all slick?
[17:39] DH: yes
[17:39] DH: yes i do!
[17:39] OW: lol
[17:40] OW: enjoy cuz my [censored] is here till i finish
Session Close (OW): Mon Jun 26 17:43:01 2006


Session Start (DH:OW): Mon Jun 26 19:03:35 2006
[19:03] DH: ****** i forgot to tell u
[19:03] DH: i got that lupe fiasco at work
[19:04] OW: oh so now u tell me when u r home
[19:04] DH: i forget
[19:04] DH: u know i'm too busy making fun of Co-worker
[19:04] DH: sorry
[19:05] DH: :-I
[19:05] OW: yeah u were to busy gettin on Co-worker, makin her life miserable
[19:05] OW: lol....yup
[19:05] DH: it wasnt' me
[19:05] DH: she feel asleep
[19:05] OW: yea right
[19:05] DH: she fuxed up
[19:05] OW: and u just had to make her day shyty
[19:05] DH: it was my dutty to bring it to her attention
[19:10] OW: u r so badd
[19:10] DH: i told u i'm a good guy
[19:10] OW: co-worker2 said she blocked Co-worker out of her aim
[19:10] DH: it's the lil devil in me that comes out like that
[19:10] DH: i don't blame her
[19:10] OW: i see that
[19:11] DH: if she ain't think her ****** smelled better than mine, i'd be nice to her
[19:11] DH: but she be actin
[19:11] DH: i don't like that
[19:13] OW: lol
[19:13] OW: omg
[19:13] OW: lol
[19:14] OW: DH can i finish my work
[19:14] DH: of course u can
[19:14] OW: lol
[19:14] DH: why are u asking me
[19:14] OW: cuz u have me laughin over here
[19:14] OW: and im not workin
[19:15] OW: hey
[19:16] DH: yeah
[19:16] OW: u got amailia's aim
[19:16] OW: she aimin u
[19:16] DH: no i don't got it
[19:16] DH: she's The Jobamalia right
[19:16] OW: yep
[19:19] OW: im goin home now
[19:19] OW: good night
[19:19] DH: get home sage
[19:19] DH: ooooooops
[19:19] DH: safe
[19:19] OW: lol
[19:19] DH: c u manana
[19:19] OW: thank you.....nah papi wednesday
[19:19] OW: tell DW I sayz hello
[19:20] OW: Earth from the Job
[19:20] DH: peace
[19:20] OW: tha canadian girl who DH has jokes on everyday
[19:20] OW: bye
Session Close (OW): Mon Jun 26 19:20:43 2006


Session Start (DH:OW): Fri Jun 30 11:35:48 2006
[11:35] DH: hey
[11:35] DH: shhhhhhhhhh
[11:35] DH: what's up
[11:36] OW: lol
[11:36] DH: where's cataldo?
[11:36] OW: in his his seat, surfing the net...lol
[11:36] DH: hahaha
[11:36] OW: lol
[11:36] DH: what's his screen name
[11:36] DH: and u say that i'm bad
[11:37] OW: u r
[11:38] DH: is it The Jobcataldo?
[11:38] OW: chris said make sur u r here tomorrow on time, team lead
[11:38] OW: yes it is
[11:39] DH: just told him that i'm writing him up
Session Close (OW): Fri Jun 30 12:04:05 2006


Session Start (DH:OW): Sun Jul 16 17:09:49 2006
[17:09] OW: hello sir...lol
[17:10] DH: how's sunday treating u?
[17:10] DH: are u coming in tomorrow?
[17:10] OW: heelz yea im comin in tomorrow
[17:10] OW: hellz*
[17:10] DH: morning?
[17:10] OW: yes morning ...9am
[17:11] OW: imma be a beat ****** but ill be here
[17:11] DH: yes u r!
[17:11] DH: lol
[17:11] OW: no baby yet?
[17:11] OW: I hope u all have AC
[17:12] DH: yeah, the a/c is on right now
[17:12] OW: ok...DW should b okay,hope u all r not goin nowhere today
[17:13] OW: hot as ****** outside
[17:14] DH: i know
[17:14] OW: okay let me get back to work..ill talk to u later
[17:15] DH: peace
Session Close (OW): Sun Jul 16 17:16:01 2006


Session Start (DH:OW): Sun Jul 16 17:16:08 2006
[17:16] OW: 1
Session Close (OW): Sun Jul 16 17:16:12 2006

Hmm... the convos seem innocent from the OW's point of view, she mentions aiming other coworkers..

However as a woman that works, I wouldn't be aiming a married man with an expectant wife. Or a man I work with in general unless there is something else there. Thats just not appropriate. It sounds like your H's work situation is somewhat childish and immature, employees aiming each other... If Aim isn't used as part of the job, its suspicious to me, or something waiting to happen.

I would be beyond upset he aim'd her, and I have been there myself with the ex being all secretive and overcompensating.
Its blatant secretive behavior what he did.

Sounds like he is into the excitement of talking to this woman, or being secretive talking to these people - for sure he has no boundaries, sounds like he isn't the only one at his workplace.

In any case, this is hurting you, his job is to meet your needs, and clearly right now he isn't. You can stand firm with him on this, tell him when you are calm, how you feel, and the fact that he acted all "what's wrong" when he knew all along what he is doing is wrong.

You have every right to be suspicious, even if there wasn't anything sexual about the IM's there is flirting there from your husband.. I would be fuming(and have in the past with my ex) with that...

I am so sorry you are dealing with this right now, or at all.

Even though its no excuse, maybe your H is freaking out about becoming a dad and this whole AIM thing is an escape?
I wouldn't suggest that to your ex and give him an "excuse" for his behavior, that gives him an easy out. Just food for thought with that angle, although I'd be fuming pissed about these convos.

Not to be a cynic here, but chat logs are easily faked or altered. Especially if he invited you to see them, then I have to wonder if they haven't already been doctored/cleaned up for your viewing. He probably anticipated that you would ask or demand to see them because he already knew you were upset by their convos. How computer savvy is he? I'll try not to assume by his spelling ability... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Again, I think to get the real story, you'd have to hack his account and do a live session with her while you pose as him. Sad that it may come down to that to ferret out the truth.

Anyway, what's this chat about a CD? Did he burn or buy her one? That in itself seems an inappropriate, perhaps even intimate act. Unless it's work-related but I'm guessing not.

Set your boundaries, keep them firm and make him accountable.

~Silverwraith

Yes I agree everything seems innocent from her side. I feel like HE is the one who is reaching out to her. From what i read it doesn't even seem like she is that interested in speaking with him, he is the one who is pursuing the conversation.


No I don't think it's an escape at all. I think he really just likes to flirt with other women. I didn't put this in my original post but this is NOT the first time that he has crossed the line with a co-worker. He just doesn't know that I know about it. Last October I found an email from a former co-worker of his. He had left that particular job a year before that and she said that she was just checking in to see how he was doing. He emailed back and told her that he was married and then she emailed him saying that she missed having her pal at their monthly meetings and asked him if he would go out with her to a lounge or out for drink sometime. He said that he couldn't do that and told her to take care. I never confronted him about that situation because he never did go out with her. He doesn't know that I have guessed the passwords to his email accounts and I want to keep it that way so that I can see what is going on. I blame him for that situation as well as our present one. If he hadn't been behaving inappropriately with this woman she would not have felt that it was fine to contact him and ask him out on a date. I feel like he gives these women the wrong impression. I don't know if he is truly innocent and doesn’t know that his actions are giving these women the wrong impression about him or if it is some sort of fun game for him. I am starting to feel like a detective and I don't think I should have to live my life this way.

I agree with you anything is possible. He could have altered the chat logs in some way but I don't think he did. The only reason I don't think he did is because from the time I "busted" him until I saw the logs he didn't have a chance to get onto his computer.

I confronted DH last night and it turned into a huge blow out. I told him that I had been thinking about exactly what it was that made me unhappy about the AIM. I told him that after thinking about it a lot that I felt that it was disrespectful for another woman to IM my husband when he was home. I told him that I felt he was behaving inappropriately with his female co-worker's and that she never would have felt like it was fine to contact him during non-working hours if he didn't encourage it. I also told him that I had looked at his IM logs and that I was really upset about that part where he asked he if she had to speak to him about something that was non-work related. I mean she has a husband of her own so why does she need him to be her shoulder to cry on right?

Well he went off. He told he that I had it all wrong and that he wasn't behaving disrespectfully toward our marriage. Then he starts to say that I am accusing him of cheating and he isn't doing anything like that. I told him that I NEVER said he was cheating but that I felt that by being inappropriate with his female co-workers that he was setting himself up to have some sort of affair in the future whether it be an EA or PA. I told him that I didn't allow myself to be put into situations like that. Then I gave him some examples of times when I worked with members of the opposite sex but I made sure that they knew what my boundaries were. He was completely irate he said that it is a trust issue and I retorted that it has nothing to do with trust. I asked him what does trust have to do with it? If I see something flaky going on right in front of my face I shouldn't say anything about it because I trust you?

So naturally since I had a point there he veers the conversation OT and starts to say that I always have something to complain about. He was being really mean and insensitive to me. He said that not a week goes by w/o getting into an argument with me. I told him that I disagree with that statement and that I am actually very easy to get along with. Then I asked him what was it that we argued about last week (We haven't had an argument in weeks btw) and he said I can't remember. His exact words: I don't even remember it's like a cycle with you. You always got something on your chest about something I do, always! You know sometimes i think that you just like drama. It's impossible to not have a disagreement with you. So I asked him what exactly was it that I was always complaining about. He said: The list is too big to remember i've made it a point to forget the sh*t you always want to argue about, because if I kept remembering I’d turn into the crab that you are.

Nice, really nice. At that point I told him that he was fighting dirty by resorting to name calling. I also told him that I wouldn't keep bringing up the same things over and over again if I felt that he really listened to me and made an effort to do some of the things that really needed to get done. I told him that gifts and flowers are nice but that they don't improve the overall quality of our lives. I told him that yes I do complain because we need to work on our budget and start to save more for a house and focus on reducing our student loan debt so excuse me for being a nag.

I couldn’t take it anymore so I walked away. I don’t mind that he disagrees with what I have to say but when it descends to name calling that is the line for me. Eventually he came to me and apologized for calling me a crab and then he told me that he does see my point and that he could have handle things better. He said that he is sorry that my feelings were hurt and that he doesn’t have a problem not contacting his female co-workers during non-working hours since it is an issue for me. He also said that from his perspective he didn’t get what the big deal was because this woman was so unattractive, blah, blah, blah. In the end he still doesn’t see anything wrong with his actions…so what does that really mean anyway? He doesn’t get it. He feels that as long as he isn’t giving women his home telephone number and going out on dates or having physical contact then I am not being disrespected so I basically need to chill out.

He really doesn't get it so now he probably feels like he is being some sort of martyr by denying himself access to his female co-worker.

Last night when he was being all dramatic he said: I can't have anything...and...I can't seem to do anything to make you happy maybe I should just crawl under a rock and not speak to you anymore.

I guess he feels like I am trying to spoil his friendships. Like I don't want him to have friends which is 100% not the truth.

Anyway, moving on.

The next day he started to do a bunch of stuff that relates to our bills and financial issues.

Right now I feel drained, last night I really wished that I wasn’t married and that I could just leave already. Compared to a lot of the posts I read on MB I know that our problems are minor. Still how can you fix a problem if only one person acknowledges it as a problem? If the other person belittles you for feeling the way you do and they think that your fears are stupid? If they think you are a nag who likes to spoil their good times? Yes I know that he apologized but my feelings were and are still really hurt.


Before he left for work he was back to his usual self like nothing happened but I feel wounded. I felt so distant from him between these issues with OW and our messy finances I am starting to look at him differently and feel like maybe I don’t love him as much as I thought I did. Maybe I made a mistake and married the wrong man. Am I going to have to live the rest of my life playing detective, checking IMs, emails, cell phones records etc? I really don’t think that I want to. For months because of our financial situation I have felt resentful toward him and now this? I don't know how much more I can stand. I am educated and before I got pregnant I had a good job and was financially independent. I know that I can find another job and support myself and our baby if I need to. I would hate to raise our child in a broken home but if the alternative is this then I am not sure that I am going to be able to stick around very much longer.

Absolutely legitimate concern. He's not your hero anymore, is he? How sad. Now is the time to bust up their little friendship, go to Plan A and Exposure and Plan B and read up on them. DO NOT TELL DH that you have found MB or ANYTHING about hte concepts we have here to save marriages.

You don't want to live for the next 18 years playing private detective. I did that for about 10-12 yrs during my DH's emotional affair.

MB is your secret weapon.

Oh, also, buy the book "Not Just Friends" and readit.

Thank you Bellvue.

To tell the truth right now I am beyond angry. I feel disgusted and completely disillusioned with DH. My rational mind knows that I can't throw in the towel after less than 1 year of marriage. We have a baby on the way and I know that I love him even though right now I don't feel that way at all. I am sure that as my anger and hurt subside I will feel love for him again. I ordered the book "Not Just Friends" and I will read it when it comes. I can't lie though I feel like WHY should I be the one to try to fix everything? Especially when it seems to me that he would be content to let the chips fall where they may.

Emotionally I am not in a good place right now. I can barely bring myself to speak to or be in the same room with him right now. I am so hurt by his insults that I feel miserable. I have been crying and crying over the things that he said, they were so hurtful to me. I keep thinking so that is what you really think of me? That I am some nagging "crab" who is out to spoil your fun. That I am argumentative and difficult to get along with? That he doesn't listen to me anyway?

I feel like if he feels that way then why should I bother? If I bring this up again he will just think I am being a nag or a complaining witch.

Again today, he was playing the it's business as usual game and I very tired of it. I don't understand why he does that and I know he isn't as clueless as he pretends to be. Finally he asks if there is something wrong because I look upset and unhappy. He said I looked like I have been thinking about something and he actually had the audacity to ask if I was planning something on him. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

I didn't know how to respond, I felt stuck btwn a rock and a hard place. If I told him what was bothering me then it would likely turn into another arguement and I am not up for being insulted again.

A few days have passed now and I hope things have calmed a bit on the homefront for you.

I know right now you can only see his faults and selfish behavior, but please also try to remember the GOOD things he did and does for you. He did apologize for calling you a crab and agreed not to AIM OW after work hours. I know you feel you are giving 90% in this relationship right now but please step back a moment, take a deep breath and cut him a little slack. He *could* have ignored your request completely, but he's making an effort, however begrudingly.

The fact he seems to be willing to make some sort of effort needs to be rewarded. Even if you feel he is resentful about giving up the flirting on AIM, I think you are better off "rewarding" him with positive feedback. Say sincerely, "Honey, it means so much to me that you listened and respected me enough to stop AIMing OW. Thank you." Be sure you come across as sincere, give him a big hug/kiss.

If you are pleasant to be around, he will want to be around you. Likewise if you are petulant and sulking, angry, etc. he will likely be drawn back to chatting with those OW who have no demands on him and stroke his ego. Replace the time he would have spent chatting with OW on AIM with pleasant diversions like a walk together, a movie date, etc. I know you said funds are tight but there are second-run movie theaters which are inexpensive. The point is to do things together. Important I think to get out of the house and remove both the temptation (computer) and yourselves from any lingering hostility in the atmosphere from all the fighting. Change of scenery will do you both good.

If the issue or disrespectful behavior resurfaces again, then I think you should ask H very calmly (no angry outbursts here) if it would be OK or appropriate for you to begin real-life and online relationships with other men. Fair's fair, right? What's good for the goose and all that. If he indulges in these acts then he's not seeing things from your POV, he's selfishly wrapped up in his own little world, basking in the adoration of these OW, attractive or not.

I can almost guarantee he'll have a double standard and be outraged by the notion that you would confide in other guys. If he says it wouldn't bother him, I don't believe it. If he sneaks back to the AIM behavior, you should consider that he might have Internet addiction and pursue that avenue.

Meanwhile, is there any way you can convince him (again, calmly) to go to MC? You have so much motivation to save the M, and you might emphasize that it's not fair to bring a new life into a household that is full of strife and anger.

When you feel angry/hurt, try not to bust on him, but come here and sound off, this is a forum to help. Fighting with him now will only push you further apart, the last thing you two need.

Try positive reinforcement on him for a few days and see where it leads. Can't hurt, may help a great deal.

Take care,

~Silverwraith

Thanks again Silverwraith.

Things have calmed down quite a bit at home. I was in a total funk for a day or two. I know it goes against plan A but that is just me. It doesn't last long but I usually need a day or two to go through a full range of emotions before I resolve myself to a situation.

We talked again and I mean this time we really talked.

He asked me if I was still upset and I came clean with him. I told him really calmly that I was still upset over the argument. I told him that I know he apologized but I was still very hurt over some of the things that were said. I told him that I felt attacked and belittled by him and that it made me feel that I couldn't talk to him anymore.

I told him that he hurt me to the core and I said it really bothered me that he felt I was hard to get along with and argumentative. I said that my only motive is to always help us get along better. I asked him to tell me truthfully if that was the way he felt because I have never meant to be overbearing but maybe I am.

He said that he only said those things out of anger. We had a really good conversation. I told him that I had felt unhappy over our finances and had been feeling distant from him because I felt like he didn't listen to me. On his side he said that I don't really show much emotion (I didn't know this) and that he sometimes had a very hard time understanding what I was thinking or feeling. He said that he really learned a lot about me and he understands me better now.

I am really going to try to focus on plan A. So far I have been trying to be more affectionate with him. We also agreed that we would both cut down on our computer use. I tend to surf the net more and he is big on the chat thing but the end result is that we have two computers and he will be on one in one room and I am on the other in the next room. We are in the same house but not spending quality time together.

I also suggested to him that we start entertaining more. I know that he is more social than I am. I don't want him to feel like he is just stuck sitting around the house and he can't even go on the AIM. I forget at times that he grew up in a house that always had a lot of company whereas my folks rarely entertained and I am used to the solitude. I suggested that since we have a baby on the way and won't be able to go out much we can invite couples over and have game nights and make snacks and be more social.

He was really happy about that.

I also have some plans to show him more affection. I think that people do the things for you that they would like you to do for them. There were times when I was first pregnant and still working and I would come home and he would have a bath ran for me with candles and everything. He has given me foot massages w/o my having to ask for them. I think part of the reason he was so defensive and angry was because on Sunday when I woke up he had cleaned the bathroom, including scrubbing the toilet, and he had also moved the furniture and did the floors all w/o me asking. I said thank you but now that I think on it maybe from his perspective it sounded like "yeah thanks...instead of THANK YOU HONEY!" which was how I felt but maybe I am not expressive enough. Next to top it all off on the same day we have a big blowout. So to him I likely did seem ****** and ungrateful.

I realize now that I have to look at myself. I play a part in this too I haven't reciprocated very much. I am tired and pregnant but I can do more than I have been doing. Honestly, I haven't put on lingerie or lit a candle in this house in months.

So I have my work cut out for me but I am looking forward to making things fun again. I also thank God that it wasn't that serious at all. If I didn't see the warning signs maybe it would have escalated to a true EA or PA but I am not going to let that happen if I can help it.

Bumping for update.

Sadly, I have to update you all and let you know that things are much worse than they were 5 months ago.

DH is still up to his secretive ways and is still playing the same old games.

The woman that he was trading IM's with was fired in October but he has managed to find a new buddy and this one is younger, very attractive, and single.

Also, I have nothing to worry about from the woman he sits next too. It seems that he has become disamored of her because she is his supervisor and treats him as a subordinate and he cannot abide that so she isn't as cool as he thought she was.

I also caught him trying to set up a lunch date a former co-worker on Myspace.

I am so sick of it all. It seems to me that it is all cyclical. We go through all of this drama and we have periods where things are supposedly great and then wham! I find out something new and shocking. I now know from information that I have read on MB and other links that this man is passive aggressive and that carrying on EA with other women is his way of punishing me because he knows how much I resent his female friends. Each and everytime we have a problem with a female buddy of his the end result of all of the discussions, tears, and drama is that he wants to know exactly what the boundaries are so that we can get along then he purposefully chooses to cross the boundaries in a relatively short period of time.

It's obvious that I am not fufilling his EN but I cannot fufill needs that I am not certain of. I know that one of his needs is to be complimented a lot and have his ego stroked so I try my best to thank him everytime he does anything around the house or with the baby. I tell him he is handsome and when he complains that he needs to work out I tell him that he looks great just the way he is. Other than that I don't know what else to do.

I have tried and tried to find out what he would like in me as a partner but he is incapable of sharing his feelings with me. He loves to pretend that everything is copacetic between us and pushes me away with silence or biting sarcasm whenever I try to talk about "feelings" with him. He will behave in one or two fashions: He agrees with me 100% then does exactly what he feesl like doing anyway or he poo-poos my feelings and says that I am always trying to complaining or arguing and tries to turn it all around on me.

We had an episode straight out of the twilight zone during the last week. After catching him trying to set up a lunch date with a former co-worker and having had a chance to meet the "buddy" from his job and seeing how uncomfortable they were together in the same room with me around I tried to resolve both issues. I decided that since he does not respond to angry out burst at all that I would try to be loving with him and gently discuss the issues with him.

I wanted to establish what we both felt was a good boundary etc. I raised the point of what do we both agree is appropriate behavior with opposite sex friend's as a married couple. I asked him to tell me what he felt was appropriate because I didn't want to act like I am laying down the law because I know he would rebel if I did that.

He would not tell me what he wanted he asked me what I wanted him to do. I told him I would not mind him having female friends because it is obvious that he will whether I want him to or not but that I want total honesty from him. I also told him that if they engage in any activity outside of work that I want to be informed and involved in that activity. Meaning, if he is going to meet a co-worker for lunch that I should also be invited and that I did not like the idea of them going off to have lunch w/o me because that would almost be like a date.

His response was non-commital he would not definitively say he would agree to what I said. I told him that I wanted to know for sure if he was fine with it because I only want what he is willing to give. He went off as usual and said I need to stop dwelling and focus on forgetting. Meaning, I just need to forget about him trying to go to lunch with his co-worker and I need to forget about the issue with the co-worker from the summer. He said that I need to ask myself if I want to be in this marriage becuase it seems like I am always focused on the bad stuff and might be looking for a way out.

Next he said he did not want to discuss "this" right now. I told him that would be fine but that I would like to resolve the issue so when would be a good time for him? He refused to give me a date or time. I asked him again and I said I want you to decide because now is good for me but it is not for you so you may choose whatever time and place you want to discuss this issue. He still would not give me an answer and said that he hoped that when we did talk that we wouldn't argue like this. I was floored because I never raised my voice or spoke to him in a dis-respectful tone of voice on purpose because my goal was for him to NOT FEEL attacked!

I am damned if I do damned if I don't. The only satisfactory behavior for me from his perspective is my acceptance of his actions with other females and my silence. He wants to do whatever he wants to and he wants me to remain cheerful and loving to him.

It was like the twilight zone and that is when I got mad becuase I realized right then and there that he had not taken anything I said seriously and was just going along to get along and fully intended to carry on as before and he had no intention of implementing any changes. I said thank you for bulls*tting me. I should have known better and that was the end of the conversation.

Later on he approached me and said he was sorry for being diffucult. I asked him "being difficult about what?" and he said that he was sorry for being difficult about the conversation and that not wanting to talk at that moment. He said that he was not bulls*tting me. I said I accept your apology and that I apologize if I was getting on your nerves but it seems that everything is difficult with you and that you like it be that way.

That was it he still did not want to speak on the real issue and managed to make it seem like the entire issue was about him not wanting to talk about the problem.

After that he acted like we never had the orginal converstaion. Nothing was resolved and he began to try to go back to being friendly like nothing had ever happened. I was feeling so confused inside. I still wasn't getting it. When we went to bed that night. I lay there and I couldn't help it. I started to cry. At first it was very quietly but after a while I was sobbing because I feel so much emotional distress over our relationship. It's the women and the denial that anything is wrong. It's the lack of communication and real intimacy. It's killing me. I want to run away from all of these problems. I was sobbing and it woke him up. Here is another episode from the twilight zone. He woke up and noticed I was crying and asked me if something was wrong. How could he even ask if something was wrong. I told him that I am very upset over all of these issues that never get resovled. I am upset because we are always pretending that nothing is wrong when there is an elephant in our living room. I am upset because he cotinues to lie and lie to me. I am upset because he insist on having these relationships with his female friends and co-workers that are super secretive and to the point where it makes them uncomfortable to be in the same room with me. I am upset because I don't know the person I am married to.

His response?


Nothing...nothing at all. He was very still and he had his hand on my shoulder. After a while he laid down and fell back asleep. He never said another word to me about it. In the morning it was like the conversation never took place. He had two days off and he spent them being jovial and acting like we had the best marriage in the world. He put extra effort in around the house. He woke up early did the laundry and ran errands and took care of the baby all day. His behavior is starting to creep me out and make me feel nervouse. How can anyone be in such denial? He is very out of touch with his feelings. I am frightened because if he can behave in the way then it would nothing for him to have an PA and act like everything is normal.

Gosh there is so much more.

I have been very calm because this has all fallen down on me like a load of bricks. I don't know what to say or how to handle this huge problem on my own. He has noticed and is acting out. It's like he is trying to test my response since I have not said anything else about what happened the night I was crying he is leery but putting on a cheerful front. He is trying to get some sort of a rise from me. He has been acting sexually aggressive even though he knows I am on my cycle. He has been fondling me and making a ton of suggestive comments. More for shock value than any real interest in sex is my opinion because he only seems to want sex when I don't want it or when we can't have it. He is making all of these comments about buying me a second x-mas gift which I do not want at all since I do not work and we cannot afford it.

What am I going to do?

AlmondEyes,

I'm sorry you're going through this.

I think it's good that you're not ignoring this problem. From what you wrote, it seems like your H really enjoys the company of other women.

He may not even be attracted to them, but it seems like he gets a thrill out of associating with them, and that could definitely lead to trouble.

Right now, he has either convinced himself that his friendships are totally innocent or he is having some sort of affair. I'm guessing it's the first, but you never know.

I would go back to the articles on this website and re-read everything about preventing affairs and resolving conflict.

One really good piece of advice is to bring up the problem, without getting angry (which you started to do, good job), and then DROP the subject as soon as your H gets angry or you find yourself at an impasse. Then bring the subject up another time.

When people feel like they're being attacked, most will do anything they can to defend themselves. Even if they're in the wrong. If you eliminate that defensiveness, you have a greater chance of reaching an agreement.

I would also like to say that you do NOT have to accept him having female friends until you are certain they are appropriate.

I used to feel differently about this, but it really seems to me like most opposite sex friendships are inappropriate for married people and prevent intimacy within the marriage.

So here are two goals for you:

1. Practice bringing up the subject without getting angry, then dropping it as soon as things get unpleasant.

2. Continue your good work trying to make the marriage happy and fulfilling.

Good luck!

I had a boyfriend that did many of the same things your husband is doing. While we weren't married, I had access to his house and his computer. I too had figured out his passwords etc. There were emails between him and married women that were highly inappropriate. He would flirt and chat and gossip with them. One message was when he told a woman that he was too shy to tell her what he was thinking so he directed her to a web site to say what he couldn't. I couldn't figure out his link so I don't know what it was he was too shy to say. It was all done in secret. One woman was a secretary for his chiropractor, another was a friend he met before me, another was a secretary he used to have to deal with during his other job... It was all done is secret. I had never met any of these women and they talked about things I had no knowledge of. When I admitted to what I knew, I was unreasonable. I was jealous and didn't trust him. I didn't want him to have friends and I just wanted to keep him all to myself... sound familiar?
We did this dance for two years. It never changed and it never got better.
It's not that I want to take away your hope because my boyfriend isn't the same as your husband. But it was a horrible way to live and I am glad I am free.

Yep, BEG that pretty much sums him up in a nutshell. At this point it's a wrap for me. I don't believe there is anything that I can do on my part that will ever change his behavior. From here on out I am going to work on closing myself off to him, fixing my financial situation, and getting out of this marriage.

Hi,
I'm new here so take this with a grain of salt. He hasn't had an affair. He's talking to his co-workers. Yes he should stop if you are uneasy about it. I think you are blowing it out of proportion. You seem to be ****** bent on getting a divorce. When I was reading your first few posts, I was thinking that you were quite "intense" (that's putting it nicely). You do seem to have jealousy issues not to mention anger issues. I read his AIM's and there is nothing there. Why are you so upset? It's just a conversation, just like you are having on this board, with other males. It really looks like you could be happy together if you both just gave a little. You stop thinking he's going to pounce on every female he comes in contact with , and he throws his computer in the trash. It may sound stupid,but it might just work. My wife talks to her male coworkers on the blackberry all the time. She's not having an affair with them. Sometimes work conversations turn casual.
Hey, like I said I'm no expert, but your problems seem minor in comparison and the advice you get here is mostly from people who have been cheated on. Keep that in mind while you're kicking him to the curb.

I wasn't entirely honest from the beginning. When we first started dating he did cheat twice physically and had an ongoing EA of about 6 months.

I never wanted to admit that on MB because then I would have to answer the obvious question "So why did you continue to date and then marry him?

Ahh, then your concerns do seem much more justified. Still the evidence you've presented doesn't seem to prove an affair since you've been married. Is it possible that you're still so hurt from the 2 PA's & 1 EA while you were dating that you are almost waiting for another or even looking for it?

I am certain that the past has a lot to do with the way I feel now. He claimed he was "just friends" with the two women he cheated on me with. Everything they talked about was such a secret and I never needed to know anything about what was going on. You would think that a person who is truly sorry and changed would not put themself in the same situation as they were in when they cheated before. Not him. He claims that he would never ever have another PA and that he has learned his lesson. I am just supposed to trust that this time he will know where to draw the line. I don't know I think that being out of this marriage is more attractive to me than waiting for the rest of my life to see if he can keep his promise. It's like an alcoholic telling me that he is going to the bar but I have to trust him not to drink.

But in the same respect, would you be ok going through the rest of your life wondering what it would have been like if you'd stayed?

I'm not trying to convince you to stay and god knows I'm no relationship expert. I was just giving you a perspective that you won't see much here since most posters have been the victim of a cheating spouse. Have you gone to MC?

No we haven't been to MC I haven't been able to get him to agree to going. I am seeking out IC. I am still trying to work it out but at the same time I don't feel very enthusiastic about it. I have a lot of anger and resentment built up toward him and I need to do something to feel better. I am so drained.

IC is a good idea. You should still work on MC because it doesn't seem like either of you can articulate your true feelings to eachother very well.
In regards to being "so drained"
Don't forget just how much you've gone through in a short time. Kids are tough, physically and mentally. Having a rocky relationship through that makes it much worse. Don't add to your stress by pressuring yourself to be "Superwoman" she doesn't exist. Niether does "Superman".
If he won't go to MC just keep working on you. My wife won't go either. I'm just trying to be the best I can be. Whatever happens after that happens. At least you will know you did what you could do for your family.
But keep in mind, you still don't know he even did anything, other than not respecting your opinion. It's not good, but it's not unforgivable.

Dear Almondeyes:

Your husband has an office wife. it is becoming a very usual phenomena and some men just don't know how to stop. They make the office wife more important than their real wives!. They share a lot more in common too.

It also bothers me that my DH talks about personal things with his Admin. And she is divorced and reasonably attractive.

You need to tell him to STOP sharing your personal life and stop talking about their personal lives as well. I wonder how much productivity there is in that workplace. I am a working woman and just do my work and not chat much with anybody. No one knows about my personal life. I treat the men at work politely but not too friendly or intimately.

He needs to understand that. If he doesn't, he is not respecting you and your marriage.
Before it becomes emotional cheating-which it already may be.

As a man , trust me this is bad!!!! if he really cared about you he wouldnt put you in this situation. there is no need to have any relationship outside of the home. its just bad news and that friendship can grow into something more.. if it doesnt stop now, you will deal with it all your life. be firm if he really LOVES you , i mean really in love with you he would stop. all though seeing these situations before if a guy is like this from the get go . he will never change. exept maybe if he loses you

Bottom line: We have a communication issue. If you click on my username you can read my other posts about my marriage. We have reached a point where we are seeking MC.