DS4 and I went to see MIL and FIL on Friday. While DS4 was playing with FIL after dinner, MIL and I had a very interesting conversation.

I didn't really say much this time, and was rather listening to her. She is VERY mad at WH, and said SILs are also very mad at him. This is not really about our M or D. They just saw themselves how WH has turned into a selfish liar with no respect for others, and that is what they are mad about.

MIL said to me "of course we have been sad and depressed about your divorce proceeding, but I certainly cannot tell you to go back to my son", since he is not an honorable/responsible person anymore. Also she invited me & DS4 for Thanksgiving, and said "if you are okay with that, we would love to have you", and when I said that given our D status, it is somewhat uncomfortable to be with WH in the same room, she said "Milk, if YOU do not want to be there, of course we will not force you, but it should be WH who should feel uncomfortable, not YOU".

But FIL is the only one who is still in denial that his son has changed so much and now only cares about himself..., apparently MIL and FIL had a big fight during their vacation over WH, because MIL was trying to point out how WH is no longer the same son they used to know, and FIL got very mad and defensive. Poor FIL. As a mother, I understand how he feels too. If my son turns out to be a jerk, I'm sure I want to deny that and to believe he will wake up soon. That is how I hoped for WH too, but not only that has not happened so far, it seems he is getting worse in some respect. If I have to go through that as a parent, it must be such a heart breaking experience, so I cannot blame FIL for choosing NOT to see the reality.

Anyway, aside from FIL and SIL #2, all of WH's family now sees themselves how he lies in order to get what he wants. I don't even have to explain how I have felt, because they feel they have been betrayed by him as well.

Milk

It looks like WH gets it from FIL.

That's what it looks like from here. I admit I only have a small view of a big problem, but that's what it looks like.

I have been thinking. Sometimes that can be dangerous. (grin)

Tell me about you. What do you think are YOUR weaknesses.

Usually when things like this happen (meaning all the problems with WH) we have to improve, or we get worse. I would say you have improved, but I want to know what you think.

What were your biggest weaknesses before this began?
Also, what is your biggest worry if you get into another relationship?
Both sides........... I know you worry about finding someone that won't do the same thing as WH, but what are your thoughts about YOU and how well YOU will do?

SS

Oh, I have soooooooooo many weaknesses myself! Yes, it's time to focus on MYSELF, not WH. Good question SS.

I set expectations way too high, for a starter, and that is something I need to work on. I can set high expectations for myself, but I should not do so for others because that will always result in disappointment and resentment. For example, I am a firm believer in keeping promises, which itself is not a bad thing, but when others I feel close to break them, I get overly hurt. And yes, I do lose my respect for these individuals, so you can say I tend to be judgmental. WH drove me crazy in this regard, because promises were never so important to him, and he was constantly yelled at by me when he so casually broke them. I should not have done that, and approached differently.

This leads to another weakness. My anger management. I quickly judge others and take actions (= get upset). I can see how WH did not feel 'at home' because I was upset all the time (but just to defend myself, I was upset for pretty darn good reasons!). He probably felt that he could never make me happy or satisfied. I probably should have taken more of a 'positive reinforcement' approach than the opposite one, and tried to applaud him when he did not lie or when he did keep his promises.

I can be stubborn. I can be proud. I get frustrated.

I have been trying to address my anger management for quite sometime, and think I am slowly improving in this area. I'm also going through this learning stage with DS4. When DS4 absolutely refuses to listen to/cooperate with me on Monday mornings, it's so easy to get upset. I try to remain calm but I have to admit it is a challenge. The other day I had enough when I had to ask DS4 to get up and get ready for about 50 times and found that he was still in bed (I even helped him dressed up but he took his clothes OFF and changed back into PJ!!!), and raised my voice "DS4, we go through this every day! Please get dressed now!"

He started to cry and said "you yelled at me, and 'NOW' is a bad word!" The fume was coming out of my head, but I felt bad so apologized for yelling at him (and assured him 'NOW' is not a bad word).

DS4 is a pretty good training kit for my anger management. If I can remain calm with him all the time, I think I can handle pretty much anything <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> With WH, I have been pretty good at managing my temper for the past year or longer. He continues to do/say mean things but I usually stay calm now.

SS, you asked: "Also what is your biggest worry if you get into another relationship?"

This is something I have been thinking all these months. I KNOW that I would be disappointed by whoever I will meet and decide to be with the next time, because no one is perfect, including myself. Because I tend to artificially make my partner a 'perfect guy' in my head, I have a hard time dealing with the reality. So I will have to have more realistic expectations, and even if he does not do things that I would think is a sign of love and respect for me, I have to learn not to take it too personally. After all, guys DO think very differently from us, so same rules do not apply. I have to keep reminding myself of that.

Having said that, hopefully the new 'partner' will not have severe problems like drug addictions next time, and all we have to deal with is more normal 'men/women' issues. I think that will make things a bit easier to understand.

Milk

Oh, one other thing - this is actually BIG.

I am afraid that I will never be so naive, innocent and trusting in my next relationship. I never thought WH would do anything like this, so how would I know that the next person would not change either later on in his life? This must be one of the biggest fears.

Milk

Many of the same skills that help us in romantic relationships can also help us in our parent/child relationships.

I have found that it's much easier to meet my children's needs if I understand how to meet my W's needs.

I laughed when I read about your son's reaction. Children can be very well behaved one day, and terrors the next. Well, maybe your son is not, but my children were capable of that. All we have at home now are the twins. (Girls, 13)

I wasn't worried about ME knowing your weaknesses, but I want you to understand them, and be working on them. It's hard to be "self aware" sometimes. We have habits - things we are comfortable with, and we don't change easily. I have had to remind myself over and over that I need to do better, and that I can do better. It's a slow process for me.

It was hard for me to realize that some of the things I did were driving my W away from me. Even after reading, and having her confirm what I read. My thought processes on some things were so different that hers, that I still have to think about how to talk to her (and it's been 5 years since I started reading on MB.)

However, the pay back has been worth the effort.

Both of us still have issues with the other at times. Now we talk though, we don't yell, or cry. Just that alone is progress.

Why am I telling you this?

You are right, no one out there is perfect. You may find a guy that is kind, attentive, and helpful, but then you learn he rides a motorcycle. (grin)

One of the things I enjoy about our marriage is that we are working this out together now, and talking about it, but not fighting, or blaming the other for problems.

She has learned to call me on my LB's (Love Busters) and I have learned to call her on hers - it's easier now that we know what they are.

I think the difference is that I have someone that wants to work with me on it, and is willing to admit her own mistakes. Your H isn't interested in working on himself, but only in finding someone to blame for his problems so he can avoid the difficult work of self improvement.

Please do focus on YOU. I promise it will be more rewarding.

The hard parts of life will never go away, but I hope you can still find joy in the journey.

SS

OK, SS, you just won't let go of my motorcycle issue, eh. Like I said, it is fine with me, as long as he shows responsibility and respect for my concerns, and if that is truly what he likes. WH's case is different. He was into guns, computer games, porn, porn, porn, porn, porn....., then motorcycle. He bought an expensive car as well (which I am paying for, by the way). It is not like he has always liked motorcycle!

Anyway, I was quite upset to find out that WH watched the X-Men with DS4. Does he EVER check the rating of movies? NO!

Why does he have to do everything that is against my wishes??? Or is it that we are just soooooooooooooo different???

Milk

Milkshake,

I’ve never posted to you before, but I’ve been reading your thread all along. I’m very pleased with the steps you are taking to protect yourself and your son from your H’s hurtful behavior.

I want to recommend strongly that you learn more about passive-aggressive personalities. I believe you read the mega-thread on this topic a while back and recognized your husband in the behaviors described. But when you ask a question like


I can only think that you haven’t completely assimilated what that thread is talking about.

I am convinced by everything you have written in this thread that your H has passive aggressive personality disorder. Of course, I am not a doctor, and a doctor wouldn’t diagnose someone based on descriptions on an Internet thread. But that’s my armchair diagnosis nonetheless.

Please educate yourself about this disorder. I think when you do, a couple of things will happen:
-You will no longer be surprised by your H’s behavior.
-You’ll learn the best techniques for co-parenting under these circumstances.
-You’ll find that your faults probably aren’t as bad as you feel they are right now (PAs incite crazy behavior. They feed off other people’s angry outbursts and manipulate the situation to provoke them.).
-You’ll learn to identify PA behavior in others and avoid PA men like the plague, increasing the chances that your next relationship will be much healthier and more satisfying.
-You’ll give yourself a much needed break.

Thanks Curios53. I do believe WH has some mental issues, and when I read the descriptions of a person with PA, it was truly a light bulb moment for me. WH is not a bad person, but is extremely manupulative, and does not feel a shame or guilt by doing so in order to get what he wants the way he wants. He even threatened his own mother that he would kill himself if she would not let him move back in their house (which she did NOT, and obviously WH is still alive).

At this point, I really should focus on how we can better co-parent. I do not see WH getting healthier, because he refuses to face the reality and keeps running away from it, denying that he has issues. It's his dad's, step mom's, stressful jobs', and my fault that he has reached this low point, in his mind.

Anyway, I really want to meet someone who is mentally healthy next time (which I never knew was THAT important when I was young!!!), and I will follow your advice as to educating myself about PA further, for my own and DS4's sakes.

Thanks again.
Milk

OK, SS, you just won't let go of my motorcycle issue, eh. Like I said, it is fine with me, as long as he shows responsibility and respect for my concerns, and if that is truly what he likes.

Actually, I used that example for two reasons.

1. - I wanted to tease you. A good sense of humor is important because it helps a couple resolve some of their differences by laughing at themselves. I hope you laughed when you read it. I really was grinning when I wrote it.

2. I think we can successfully love people that have different ideas than we do about some things.

I personally wouldn't marry someone who had very different ideas about religion, sex, child raising, and maybe a few others that don't come to mind right now. HOWEVER, there are things that my W and I differ on, but we don't fight about. Sometimes we vote differently -


WH's case is different. He was into guns, computer games, porn, porn, porn, porn, porn....., then motorcycle. He bought an expensive car as well (which I am paying for, by the way). It is not like he has always liked motorcycle!

I am into guns too, and computer games.
Porn is damaging to me, I don't get near it at all.
I thought a lot about what you are saying. Some things are really important to us - such as our core values. Some things are a habit - or we are used to them, and comfortable with them. I was raised in a rural area, where guns and hunting were common. I target shoot on occasion, but not often. I don't spend much money on this hobby, and never spend money if my W does not agree. (More on the money part later)
Firearms are kept locked away in a small storage room. They are never available to children or other adults for that matter. This is something all my children enjoy - we sometimes target shoot as a family activity.

On Computer games -
I have a SIL that is a big computer games fan. Last year at Christmas he set up a network in our home, and some of our Sons, and Daughters (and SIL's, and DIL's came and we played together on the network. Everyone brought their own computer. I thought it was kind of fun. I don't think one spouse ought to play at the expense of the other spouse. That is, I don't think one ought to play when the other wants to spend time together in other ways.

I wonder if your problem is not with what he likes, but how he allocates time and money to do these things.

When our twins were born, money was tight at our house. I sold some of my guns to finance their birth. There was never any question of what was most important. My W didn't ask me to do it - I knew it was needed, and I did it on my own. My W surprised me a few years later by buying me a replacement for one of them for fathers day. What I did meant a lot to her, and what she did meant a lot to me.

At our house we have worked out a way to manage finances together. We pool all the money together when we get paid. We pay the expenses and payments first, then we determine what to do with any money that is surplus. Each of us gets XX dollars to spend as we see fit. We use it for dates (we take turns every other week being in charge of what is done.) We use it for hobbies, gifts......... whatever we want. So, I don't spend our money (except for my own allowance) unless she agrees, and neither does she unless I agree.

Anyway, I was quite upset to find out that WH watched the X-Men with DS4. Does he EVER check the rating of movies? NO!

I don't watch R rated movies, and few PG13. My favorites are rated G.

Why does he have to do everything that is against my wishes??? Or is it that we are just soooooooooooooo different???

It's hard to know if he starting doing some of these things on purpose because he knows it would bother you.

I tend to agree with C53 about what you ought to do.

Now, may I explain why I told you about myself?

I often think our differences are more in how our spouse allocates time and money to these things, than the things themselves.
I'm not trying to convert you to riding motorcycles, or being comfortable with guns. I do want you to think about why we have these differences, and what you ought to do when you meet someone who feels differently about something than you do. Please know I respect your right to feel however you wish about any topic. Also know I don't think my feelings are better than your feelings about any of these things. We may differ - but I have the greatest respect for how you think and feel.

My W could have a problem with any of the things I like..... or do. The family comes first though, and she is cared for, and protected. She knows she comes first. She knows I would rather spend time with her, than do anything else in the world.

I think hobbies are good for us in some ways. They can take over our lives though, if we don't pay attention to what we are doing. It's nice to be able to go home from work, and play a video game to unwind. My w often does just that - A video card game that she likes. She doesn't play when she ought to be doing something else. She gives proper support to her family.

I am not trying to disagree with you - please don't think that. However, you will be learning about other men, and dating, and wondering what to do. C53 is right about learning so you can avoid that type of person in the future. You may find someone with your same core values, but who has differences with you in other areas. Don't be afraid of that. If a person has the right core values, they will put you and the family first, even if they have many hobbies, and interests. If you can talk to them, and if they listen and care about your feelings it can work out. I think the ability to communicate is more important than agreeing about everything up front. (core values being the exception, I think you need to agree about some basic things.)

Sometimes we spend time wondering what might have been.......... if we had chosen differently. I think it's more valuable to use our time planning how we can do better where we are NOW.

Forgive me for teasing about motorcycles. Just laugh, and shake your head.

Remember that life is often difficult. If you get to know the people around you well, you will realize that everyone has trials. It's just different for them, than it is for you. I hope your thoughts are more often on your bright future than on the few dark parts of the past.

Now my big problem is............. what do I tease you about next time if I stay away from motorcycles?

SS

milk - if you have not already, please read the first link in my sig line. And then read it again.

My H is severely P/A in his personal relationships. I have had to learn that when my anxiety and anger levels start going off the charts, that's when I need to look at what he is doing through the P/A lens and NOT through the Normal Healthy Relationship lens. *Then* it suddenly all makes sense and I can detach from it much easier.

Perhaps the worst thing about P/A spouses is that to them, hurting you IS an acceptable option when it comes to solving a problem. It took me waaaayyyyyy too long to figure this out. It just never occurred to me that he would be okay with hurting me so he could get what he wants. But he is.

Do not ever forget this.
Mulan

milk, I've been reading back through your thread. Here are a few things that jumped out at me. When you look at them through the P/A lens, they all make sense:


People who use P/A tactics to get through life do this because they have a very real aversion to being "controlled" in any way. They entirely reject the notion of "equal partners" or a "win-win scenario". If someone is your equal, that means they can control you, and you will never convince them otherwise.

That's why your WH is attracted to down-and-out low-life women – because there is NO chance that they will ever be his equal and NO chance that they will expect him to behave like a partner to them. You, on the other hand, DO expect to be treated like an equal partner and so you are therefore the enemy who is out to control him.

My WH has always been attracted to young, good-looking, flirty fawning women who were subordinate to him at work. At least two of them were his *direct reports.* This was insane to me before – was he just begging for a sexual harassment charge, or what? – but it made perfect sense when looked at through the P/A lens. These women were NO threat to him. They were his subordinates and they were also losers with their own boyfriends, so there was no question of their ever being his equal in their relationship. He was very, very comfortable with this, even though he looked like a complete [censored] parading around the (very large) workplace with these trashy females, going to all company events with them, and risking a sexual harassment charge on a daily basis.


P/A people are very heavily invested in remaining victims. Why? Because if you're a victim, nothing is your fault and you do not deserve any consequences for your actions. You can be sure that your WH will stop at nothing to make everything YOUR fault so he can forever remain a victim.

milk, you are going to have to learn to deal with this man through the P/A lens or he will continue to drive you insane - even if you divorce him. Stop expecting him to respond like an emotionally mature man, because he isn't one. Emotionally he is a sneaky 10-year-old who doesn't want Mommy to know what he is doing and who insists on doing as he pleases with NO consequences. That's the entire goal of P/A tactics in a nutshell.

When you realize this, dealing with him will get a whole lot easier and he won't be able to blindside you so much. You'll be able to see it coming and he will actually get sadly predictable.
Mulan

SS, oh, I was laughing and I was teasing you back when I said what I said.

You have a good point that our differences are often more how our spouse allocates time and money to these things, than the things themselves.

WH never really had any hobbies, so when he used to go out with his friends to do the 'target shooting', I did not like it, but I did not stop him either, because I thought it was better than him doing absolutely nothing but laying on the couch. Even when he was collecting porn DVDs, I did not say much, because I thought all guys watch porn, and that's just what they do. BUT the problem was, he would be gone for an entire day or both days during the weekend so that he could go to those porn shops, computer stores to play computer games, or to chase after other women on the street. Now, I did not know that he was chasing after other women on the street at that time, but I knew that he was spending a great amount of time at porn shops and also playing computer games all day long. Even when I am cooking, cleaning, and taking care of our baby - he was just playing computer games or was out. That really upset me. I did not feel like we had partnership. So I complained. I thought the evil was the computer games, porn, guns, TV, etc., not WH's tendency to run away from responsibility. But the truth was, he only used those means so that he could run away and did NOT have to share the chores with me. By the end of the day, I was exhausted, yet he would come upstairs soon as I finished putting DS to sleep, and demanded sex. I refused, because I wanted to SLEEP, and he got mad. That is how it was everyday back then. I felt like I was a free maid, prostitute and also a breadwinner! How fair was that??? So my resentment grew each day. In the mean time, I kept hearing from my guy friends how they help their wives, even if they don't work outside - those busy professionals rush home to help their wives and put their family on top of everything. So I compared that to my situation and felt so miserable. I work hard, harder than WH, I work longer hours, make more money, I cook, I clean, I do laundry, I feed DS, I read to him, I play with him, I sing for him, and I put him to sleep. In the meantime, WH was not doing a good job at work, always complaining about his bosses and colleagues, making mess and never cleaning after himself, going out to purchase so many porn DVDs and other stuff that I did not agree with, spending so much on his drugs and cigarettes, complaining that I was saving 'too much' for our future (retirement), DS' college fund, etc., always staring at other women whenever we went out together which totally humiliated me, and not spending enough time with our son. Yet he wanted me to take initiative in sex. How could I have felt romantic?? I think the resentment basically did not allow me to 'accept' WH's guns, TV, motorcycle, etc. I wanted him to be more cooperative, responsible, reasonable, and productive first, before indulging himself with these items.

Mulan, thanks for the link. I think I have read this, but will take a look at it again. It was exactly like that. Each time we had fight (or it was more like I was upset and yelled at WH out of frustration), we felt bad, and I wanted to believe his words "sorry, I won't do that again", or "I will help you more", or "I will take DS to the park", etc. Then he would break his promises again... I was very tired every day those days.

Ooops, I think we cross posted. I tried to post what I wrote above, and read your new post. My WH is a total child, and he pouts (literally) if he thinks that 'appeals' to my mother instinct and can get away with whatever he wants to do. It's interesting, my WH was also always attracted to younger girls who were not 'threat' to him. He was never been attracted to older or wiser or more experienced women. At the same time, he wanted his woman to have 'unconditional love' like a mother does towards her child. It's weird. He basically wanted me to be a mother who just let him do whatever he wanted and still loved him, and did not want me to expect much out of him, such as equal partnership.

Milk

Nothing much to update in terms of WH. I need to contact my attorney because since I filed the disclosure statement, nothing has really happened.

Of course I shouldn't have spoken too soon.

I received three thick envelops from my attorny. One was a bill, not a big deal, but the thickest one contained several documentations.

(1) Petitioner's matrimonial interrogatories to be answered by respondent
(2) Requst of petitioner for the production of documents

Now, are they standard documents and normal procedure?

It could be standard, but I just get sick to my stomach each time I receive things like this. He and I were together for over decade, producing a beautiful child along the way, and he is declaring a war against me. He has asked to our MC once if she thought our 'feelings' will come back once we get divorced, but how on the earth does he think that would be the case, after going through such ugly legal battle???

I just can't believe this man, who swore that I was the most important thing in his life, has no shame to do whatever he wants to do to get $$$, even though it was HIM who got himself in troubles and had cheated on me. He feels he is a poor victim and is entitled to everything.

It really makes me feel sad.

Milk

What you are going through has to be difficult - and I realize this is an understatement.

Why don't people "get it?"
How come it has to be so hard?

Please don't give him anything if you don't have to. My belief is that he won't "get it" until he hits bottom, and that won't happen as long has he gets support from others and doesn't have to support himself.

Do you understand that you won't feel like you should until you are free of most of this? The more you have to cope with it, the more it keeps coming back to your mind.

I am sorry - I know it doesn't help much, but I feel for you.

When my W and I were having problems, I often wondered how we got there from the young couple who seemed so in love on while on their honeymoon. After reading Dr Harleys materials, I understand.

It does take two - you couldn't have done it by yourself, but do learn from it, and do make any changes you have learned would help your future. I suppose that's another thing that two can do better than one. Feedback from my W helped me with the improvements I was making.

- notice I didn't even mention motorcycles once in this post.
Oops -

SS

Thanks SS, for not mentioning the motorcycles <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I know I should not just feel sorry for myself, which is not going to help anyone. But I just can't help but to feel soooooo lost again. What was I thinking back then? Why couldn't I tell WH had so many issues and could not be trusted? There were so many incidents that gave me red flags, I wanted to believe WH was my hero, and I CHOSE to live in denial. In the end I helped prolong the problems.

There will never be the 'perfect' timing for divorce, but it certainly would have been a bit easier if we did so only a few years after our M, as supposed to 12-13 years, and also before having our son.

I am not going to go around and around again, that stage is long gone. But it still hurts and makes me sad to know that this is NOT making WH sad.

Milk

But it still hurts and makes me sad to know that this is NOT making WH sad.

He is in denial. Look at the things he is doing. Are they the hallmarks of a happy person?

It looks to me like the actions of a person who is trying to find happiness, but who keeps looking, and looking, and looking..........

Happiness isn't in the fluff of the world. It's something that comes from inside based on how we live our lives.

Do you think he will find it any time soon?

SS

I'm not sure. I know he's been trying to find his 'dream' girl. He has tried LovaLife, eHarmony, just to name a few. And at least as of September, he did not have any, and he is mad about that too (once he yelled at me "FINE, finding a woman is not everying in life, I am NOT afraid of dying alone!", as if it is my fault that he hadn't found anyone yet...). I know he feels lonely at times, and he gets panic attack when he thinks of his future being alone. He came by on Saturday to pick up DS4, and at that time when our dog ran out to greet WH, he told the dog "I know, I love you and miss you very much too". Earlier this year, WH asked me to ask him to take care of the dog whenever I will be out of town because he 'misses' having a company in his place.

So in general, I know that he feels lonely and is not very happy. He misses DS4 tremendously too. He bought the fancy car in 2004 when he was feeling very empty, and bought himself the motorcycle this year. To me, he is trying to fill the void inside him. He tried meditation, too. But things just do not last for him. I'm not sure how he is living now.

I don't know he will 'find' what he is looking for soon. I don't know if he even KNOWS what really is that he wants. He may think that is another 'woman' who makes him feel complete, but if she and he fight, he may start to feel the same way again.

Milk

milkshake,


I know exactly what you are thinking. In my case, I put a lot of energy into the idea that I was giving my heart and my trust to this man that I wanted so much as mine. With such a precious gift, he's bound to love me back and be who I need him to be. I think it all goes back to a work ethic, that we wrongly apply to our romantic lives: If I work hard enough, if I really prove I deserve it, I will get the love I want from him. Never considering what he has to do to earn all my love and trust. But that's the kind of mistake we make when we are young. We get older and wiser.


(((milkshake)))

I know it's hard not to take that personally. But please try to understand: He's not a healthy, intact man. He does not have the emotional reactions of a healthy, intact man. His lack of sorrow is not because you're not worth it. It's because that's not how his limited emotional system works.


Really? Do you really not know? Then please let me tell you. And I say this from my own experience. He will NOT find what he is looking for. He does NOT know what he's looking for. He will NOT find a woman who is a better fit and with whom he can ride off into the sunset. He will NEVER be a happy man in a happy relationship.

Keep studying up on passive aggressive personality disorder. You need to learn the best ways for dealing with the disorder so you can best parent your son.

Best to you.

Thinking of you, Milk, and understanding how you feel all too well. Finally had to talk to WH today (re: insur and my ankle situation) and it did not go well at all, so I am feeling very upset and hurt tonight.

Im feeling stupid and frustrated with myself, in that I guess a tiny part of me was still hoping that our shared
history, life, and love together would mean enough to WH
to keep him from really going through with a divorce. Kept
hoping and praying that the A would come to a complete and
permanent end, and that WH would come out of the fog and
want me and our life back, but if anything, he was more
detached, cold, uncaring, and foggy than ever....

As much as I hate and detest the OW, I also have been coming
to see that so much of this is WH's mental health issues and like you, don't know if things could ever change, but
I so still love him, still miss him every minute of every
day and have tried to be reasonable, fair, and even kind to
him, only to have him seem to hate me and just want to make
my life difficult every chance he gets now.
Will update on my thread.
Slammed