I'm not sure if I'm looking for advice or simply a listening ear. WH and I are around 4 months past dday and are living in misery.

To be as brief as possible, WH and I have been married for 15 years, dated for 4. We have two children, ages 4 and 1. WH had an A with his coworker for a year and just agreed to go NC with her as of last Monday. He still harbors hope of one day being able to renew his 'friendship' with her as well as have her back in our home as a part of family. (OW was also a friend of mine.)

The reason why NC was so long in coming because of my own ignorance. When WH first revealed the A to me, he said he couldn't go through R without the OW as his friend, and in fact, wouldn't. Not only was I foolish enough to believe him, but I even tried to maintain my own friendship with OW. Through IC, I have come to realize that I have some pretty major codependant tendencies, which is why I bought into WH's ridiculous suggestion so readily. Not only have I been 'giving in' to him for almost 20 years now, but I actually taught myself to believe he was right and I was wrong. Even if I felt in the innermost part of my soul that I was right, I would back off at his disapproval and do what I had to in order to keep the boat from rocking. To make matters 'worse', I also have unknowingly tried to 'rescue' and 'caretake' him throughout our marriage ie-save him from consequences. In the immediate aftermath of the A's disclosure, I fell into my old pattern of caretaking and tried to save both WH and OW from the consequences of their actions.

So...I'm coming out of my own self-induced fog and have started to draw boundaries (hence the NC). I am starting to think for myself, recognize my own feelings (as opposed to focusing solely on WH's) and make decisions based on truth rather than consequence (does that make sense to anyone but me?) The sad thing is this: the more of a stand I take, and the more competent and confident I become, the worse WH treats me. I know that he is threatened by the fact that I'm finally standing up to him, but that knowledge does very little to ease the stress and pain when he tries to shift blame to me. He is using a lot of the same jargon that most alien-possessed WHs use (I never really loved you, if only I'd met OW first, you made me give up friends for you, you never met my needs, you 'abandoned' me first by never meeting my needs, you should know what my needs are without my having to tell you etc.) but he's using a few that I haven't seen before, possibly because I allowed the OW to remain in our lives for several weeks post dday. Below is a partial list of some of his accusations.

"How can I even start to try reconnecting with you when you're so unstable/keep changing your mind?"

"Your continual mind-changing (ie-drawing new boundaries) shows me you can't be trusted."

"If I tell you what it is I need/want, then it invalidates any actions you take to meet those needs. I would have to change my signals."

"You're being cruel to OW by telling her you care about her, but won't see her."

He also wanted to allow OW to bring my daughter to a music class, which would have involved a 2 minute walk. When I said no, he 'threatened' me. He said that if I didn't allow them 2 minutes of contact, then the consequences of my refusal might be a lifetime of my daughter being with OW. When I still wouldn't budge, he then tried to say it was for our daughter's own good because she hadn't seen OW in such a long time. And when that didn't budge me, then he told me I was being cruel.

I could go on and on, and I guess I have. There's so much pain and grief...and after 4 months, the only 'work' I've been able to do in terms of recovering from the A has been on my own, and in the counsel of good friends (which WH is trying to limit.)

I have little hope right now that the H I used to know and love come back. If things are the same or worse at the end of October, then I believe it would be best for us to separate. I know that God has a plan and that this pain is not futile. I know that we are both in the palm of His hand and that He will not let us go. I'm not sure, however, that this marriage is salvageable. Regardless, I know God will provide me with the strength I need for whatever future He has chosen for me.

Thank you for listening and for any comfort/advice any of you may have.

Wow, that's funny!

No sane person could think that up.

Whoever's keeping the list, this one belongs on it fer sure.

And this one -

I hope by now you've expressed your real feelings.


How do you plan to get him to leave?

Good lord!

So let me guess, he also believes in soulmates and that you should never have to "work" at a relationship, am I right?

To interpret what he's saying up above:

"You should *intuitively* know what my needs are without me having to tell you. I mean sheesh, the OW does."

He's trying to justify and rationalize his behavior away. Don't listen to it.

Come up with a Plan based on Harley's principles (Plan A/B) and follow them. Today's a new day and you get a fresh start at this. We can help.

Jo

maienne,

You said you didn't necessarily want advice but since you came here you have to pay the price.

There is only one thing worse than arguing with a fool and that is arguing with a fool that is also a control freak. Why do you give validation to this man's sense of entitlement. If you debate the role of OW's existence in your family's lives you have already lost the point.

Now occasionally out of the mouth's of donkeys some wisdom may emerge.... Have you been vacillating on your boundaries? Someone that can accept their spouse's lover or even entertains that insane idea would appear to have serious personal issues that may take precedence over trying to repiar a marriage.

Best of luck.

""but I even tried to maintain my own friendship with OW.""

Just curious as to how those conversations went? What is her take on all of this? As deep in the fog as your H? Any glimmer of understanding from her as to how YOU feel?

Is she married? Anyone you could expose to if the need arises?

Your "little boy" i.e. self centered, immature, selfish male child, is very deep in the fog and is suffering/fighting withdrawal.

If NC is maintained and your plan A is working on all cylinders, the theory is that "the H I used to know and love" should return.

My only other thought is you indicated OW was his "co-worker" So we all hope that they do not work together anymore.

krk

who quit their job?

OW or H?

Pep

If he continues to belittle you ... suspect that "NC" is not actually "NC" ... but just better hidden contact

Plan B end of Oct sounds fine ...

Here's what I'd really hope you would do this week

call Harleys

I see hope in your situation ... but it is oh-so-tricky ... mostly because of your track record of boundary-shifting & allowing contact ... but that can be repaired by you

please call Harleys instead of giving up

Blessings

Pep

Thank you all. Yes, one of the big problems is my lack of boundaries. However, since I've been drawing them (slowly over the past two months), I'm sticking with them. I actually think this is part of why WH is really turning up the heat on me...to see if I'm going to waver.

OW is as much in the fog as WH, though I haven't spoken with her in a long time...long enough that I don't recall the last time. She believes she's necessary to help restore our marriage. As for the work situation, sadly they still work together, but they are being officially 'babysat' by the woman whose office is next to OW's. This woman was appointed by the Provost of our college and is my very good friend. She calls me daily to check on me, hear the latest and speak words of comfort and wisdom. If she sees them having contact other than in weekly faculty meetings, she is to confront them. If it happens a second time, she is to go to the Provost and they would both be fired.

Not ideal, but the best we can do at the moment. WH is currently looking for another job.

How can I even start to try reconnecting with you when you're so unstable/keep changing your mind?"

well the good news is dear is that I am not changing my mind anymore...it's made up ...definitely....
you need to find a new job

Your continual mind-changing (ie-drawing new boundaries) shows me you can't be trusted."

it is a very common occurance for people to project their own issues of untrusthworthyness on to others...I understand exactly what you are saying dear....


You're being cruel to OW by telling her you care about her, but won't see her."

yes dear that is cruel...tell her I no longer care about her....that solves that eh? honey...

two words...
OK
three words...

ORCHIDS REVERSE BABBLE......

seek out the post under her monkiker....

ARK

maienne,

Welcome to MB.....so sorry you're here under these circumstances. Your alien is very very imaginative with his fogspeak.....interesting phrasology! However, is statements are just variations on the same WS theme they all use.

I suggest calling the Harleys.....SH can get through to a fogged spouse better than you can....and he can't manipulate him the way he's been trying to manipulate you. You folks need a real recovery plan.....because what is currently in place will only raise resentment. The work situation is a good example.....just seeing eachother keeps the biochemicals flowing....even if they only have little bits of contact. Sadly, it's enough....in fact in some ways....it's even worse. One of the things that heightens affair chemistry is the "adversity" they have to face....the taboo aspect really pumps up the highs. So every little "peek" of each other is like a line of cocaine.

It will be next to impossible to reach recovery until that situation is under control and one or both of them have new jobs.

What kind of accountability is in place? Do you have access to his cell bills? email accounts? passwords? Your husband is acting like someone who is still very much in contact and deep in the fog. The "babysitter" can only watch them when they are near her, so unless he's completely opened his life to scrunity, it will be hard for you to really know how extensive contact actually is.

Finally.....how did you find out about the affair? Did you confront the OW? Did he write a no contact letter? Has your husband shown remorse or been willing to compensate you for his actions? Those things are also important to recovery.

Please please.....don't wait in limboland without a true recovery plan in place and then decide in October that you're wasting your time. Work with a PLAN! Plan A and B and designed to help guide you through these rough waters....and the Harleys....are the best tour guides around.

Hang in there sweetie....we understand and will help if we can. Get a copy of "Surviving an Affair" and stick to those boundaries!!

Good Luck.....sending prayers and hugs your way.