Your situation is NOT that different from all of the rest here. We see waywards here everyday introducing their children to affair partners that are strangers. They have no inhibititions in forging a new life, cutting out the children's natural parent, and moving forward with a soulmate they barely know. It is very COMMON.

believer,

I guess I see it as vastly differently. This OM has been clear with his intentions...whereas you can only SURMISE it with others. That is why it is important to be vigilant with pre-emptive strikes.

The intent is there...shoot, the planning is there on this one. This man is planning on ways to get that 13 year old girl in bed.

I cannot imagine a mother doing this. It boggles my mind that a mother can move in with someone and have her teenage children move in with her...especially a daughter. That is NO kind of mother in my opinion.

I have heard about women leaving one home with a child molester in it...only to move in with another man and placing that child at risk again. A mother that cares about her children will NOT move into some mans house, nor have him move in with them. That is neglectful, abusive, and downright STUPID. That is a mother who is only interested in one thing... her own selfish needs and desires and to ****** with her children.

jmho
committed

People here, steeped in MB principles, talk a lot about the alien fog and how nothing the foggy person says should be taken at face value...so, without personally being an MB expert, I don't see how anyone can make a hard and fast decision that what Pablo's wife is currently saying means she is irretrievable, marriage-wise. Pablo's hope, then, for finding marriage-building insight and help for himself--and an eventual marriage recovery--doesn't seem entirely unreasonable to me, even in these circumstances. I'll say that first.

But here I'm speaking as the grandmother of 3 adopted children who were molested and abused before we got them removed from their bio-mom's care. In addition, my 3 biological grandchildren were, in turn, molested by the adopted grandchildren, so (without your having to read the Neaksis thread) I can justifiably claim to be unhappily familiar with the consequences of childhood sexual abuse. I believe, Pablo, that there is a huge difference between saving a minor child from the advances of a sexual predator, and saving a full-grown woman from her own voluntary choices. I understand that you want to do that, but you CAN'T save your wife from herself. She is an adult, and it's entirely possible that, in the end, you may not be able to see success in both areas, no matter how much you love your wife nor what past history you have shared.

By all means, learn all you can about marriage recovery, etc., but always remain aware that applying these principles is entirely dependent on your wife repudiating everything she has said and done regarding this man, and repenting down to her toes! I'm not saying you have to give up hope, but in all your efforts, I think you must remain aware that it may turn out that your desire to save your marriage and save your daughter are mutually exclusive, and that in order to accomplish the one you may have to give up on the other.

t&l

thndrnltng. Everything you just said kind of sums up where I'm at right now, particularly the wife repudiating everything. Even then, some heavy therapy would be a must. I did originally post in the divorce/divorcing thread, prepared to sacrifice the wife for the daughter; however, if there is some slim chance I could be fortunate enough to save the marriage, even under these circumstances well, it's something I must explore.

Thanks for putting it so well, t&l, I feel the same way. I am firm believer that anyone can change. I think that Pablo has demonstrated that he will put his DD first, no matter what.

I emphatically agree with this statement:

Reading the stuff you linked, there is nothing gray about his intentions. It's very clear. I can't believe your W doesn't see that!

I'm glad you've gotten the law involved. I'm glad you realize you must protect your DD even if it costs you your M. Please stand firm. I hope any visitation your W gets is supervised.

Believe it or not, I agree with medc, committed, t&l and Mel. This is critical. I hope you aren't letting your W take your D anywhere, and that your D would feel she could come to you to tell you anything whatsoever.

Don't "hope." Insist that it be a legal necessity!

t&l

Right now, the wife is 1000 miles away with OM living in near poverty. (What a comfort!) So for now, I'm not worried about them messing around with the daughter; however, if they should decide to move here, that will be an entirely different animal. It's something I should probably pour more energy to so I'm in no panic at the last minute. My concern there is that I work long shifts several days a week which leaves Kerri to herself. Sometimes her big brother is around but I can't always count on that.

I can't comment on the marriage aspect of this problem, or the viability of saving your marriage, so feel free to take my advice with as many grains of salt as you wish.

I was trying to find a specific statistic on how many mothers of child abuse victims were abused themselves as children, but I couldn't find it again. It is a very high percentage, I know that. Something often happens in the mind of an abuse victim that brands a pattern of thought and response into their brain. This is activated when exposed to the same situation as their original abuse. This can cause re-victimization as children, and also puts the victims' own children at risk.

Your wife was abused as a child. I would be interested to learn the age she was at the time of the abuse. If your daughter is near or at the age your wife was when she was molested, that could have some connection. She obviously has a huge amount of unresolved issues regarding what happened to her. One result of these issues is her willingness to offer up your daughter to a molester.

Whether there is an affair or not, your wife's unresolved issues place your child at continued risk. Until she has worked through her own demons in therapy, she will not and can not be a safe guardian of your daughter. I can testify with complete certainty to the devestating and long-lasting effects that abuse has on every aspect of a person. Your wife went many years trying to bury her problems until, like a volcano bursting forth, she lost herself in a dizzying whirl of personal irresponsibilty and self-destructive behavior.

I have every sympathy for the heart-rending nightmare that your wife endures in her mind; I have seen how abuse victims suffer every day of their lives. But I also know that until healing comes through grueling therapy and hard personal work, the self-destructive and irresponsible behaviors will continue.They will not disappear on their own. They might lie dormant for a time, but they will always be there ready to be triggered by unpredictable events.

It will not be enough for your wife's affair to end and for her to return to you. She has shown that under the right circumstances she will let a predator molest your daughter. Until she has worked through her own abuse and how it has affected every part of her life (it has, even if you don't know it) she has not fixed the problem, only buried it until the next time.

neaksis that was very insightful. Thanks for taking the effort to pass this wisdom on to me, disturbing as it is.

Added edit: As my wife recalls it she was 10-11 when it happened to her. My daughter is 13.

I've been digesting the info neaksis provided and the more I think about it the more frightened I become. The wife is oblivious to her problem, particularly this one. I'll probably beat myself up for a long time for not being more aggressive in getting her help when she first brought her molestation experience to my attention. Keeping her away from my daughter aside, how do I get her that help? I just can't do nothing.

Does she have any other family or friends who she might listen to, if they reached out to her?

~ Marsh

Well, you could just email her that you are concerned about things that happened in her past clouding her perception now. You can mention that it is obvious to everyone that this guy is a pedophile, and you hope she gets some counseling.

You could even send some of the above info. But be prepared that she will continue defending the pervert.

I think time is your best friend. He will most likely move on to easier prey.

Marshmallow, she's pretty much distanced herself from family and friends because of what she's done. But I'll look into that further.

believer, she's continued to deny she's having a problem so talking to her about this, at least coming from me, is at best a futile attempt.

I agree and disagree with this statement. Time will also allow her more time to roll around in his filth. I hate to say this...but I sincerely wonder if she is in fact involved in what he is doing. Her lack of horror at the things he was saying about her OWN daughter makes me concerned that ANY child that comes in contact with this couple is at risk. Having a woman around makes him appear like less of a threat...and that is dangerous.

Pablo, if you have not done so yet, call the police in the area that they are living so that they can at least go check them out.

The local police there got the word when I sent them the RO for them to serve. I added an extra word for them.

That's good, Pablo. Have you talked to your counselor about showing your daughters what is in the messages? I would do that.

Your marriage has been basically good, and your wife is somehow not thinking straight. Plus she is hooked up with this pervert. I think I would go directly to Plan B. Let her deal with her choices. I really don't see anyway that you can protect a grown woman from her own actions.

She can't comment because she is single, the direct result of starting to care for my adopted grandchildren when they were babies and she was just 17...and like Topsy, it just "grewed." We thought that because we had known these kids since they were infants, life would be easier for them once their parents' parental rights were permanently terminated by the state, than being with strangers would be, since familiar surroundings would limit the emotional fallout. All I can say is that if this is true, what they would've done without her is truly beyond even my vivid imagination.

It is counterproductive for you to beat yourself up over not getting her help, or recognizing it sooner. As we have learned through great pain, dealing with the aftermath of childhood sexual abuse, is a trial-and-error learning experience, and the what-I-should've-dones and the might-have-beens will destroy you if you let them. And I thought her post was pretty doggone insightful myself, although since I'm her mother I could be accused of favoritism towards the poster! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

t&l

Pablo, you would not have been able to force your W to get help... and if she had been ready to deal with her past, I don't think you would've been able to prevent it. If/when she's ready, she will face her demons - maybe when she feels in a safe enough place, or maybe when she hits bottom, or maybe never. You have no control over that.

What you can do though is make sure the cycle stops now, and doesn't get passed on to another generation. That is within your power.

Re. problems with shift work and childcare: there must be something you can work out. Lots of single moms have to do such stuff. Are there any relatives around, or friends - maybe some days she would go home with a friend, and you would return the favor on other days? Or after school programs? Or could you pay a babysitter to pick her up from school and keep her on the days you have shift work? Whatever you can work out will be better than the alternative.

believer, I agree. I just don't see how I could even work Plan A in her mental state. I did talk to my daughter's counselor about the messages after letting her read them. Since it was early in the 'getting acquainted' stage, she wanted to get to know my daughter better before she rendered an assessment as whether or not to let her see them.

t&l, thanks for the advice. I'll try to not beat myself up too much.

I did talk to my daughter's counselor about the messages after letting her read them. Since it was early in the 'getting acquainted' stage, she wanted to get to know my daughter better before she rendered an assessment as whether or not to let her see them.

What does that mean? That she might think it is ok for your daughter to be around this man?

This man has designs on your 13 year old daughter!

What does she need to know about your daughter to know that she shouldn't be around him?

This isn't about what your daughter is or isn't...it has nothing with do with whether or not she KNOWS your daughter. You can tell what he is by his words.

committed (and confused <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />)