Hi HD,

Just read through this thread. I have a few observations and questions that have not been addressed. You felt something was not right when you started looking and found the hidden e-mail account, right? What made you feel that?

You obviously still do not believe her. Right? Will she answer questions you have about this un OM? Has she refused to give you all of his information, including his name and all info that she knows about him?

Have you looked for another "secret" e-mail account or cell phone? Whether she will admit it or not, you know that according to deffinition, she has had an EA with this OM. She is still working with him?

Oh, HD! Verify all of this. It is not unreasonable of you to ask for this information. Don't sweep this under the rug. You will never heal and you may find yourself with a second d-day.

And look for another MC.

God's Blessings,

Say

What I felt was not right was she was distant, more edgey than normal. I do believe her. I know his name. Used Switchboard to find his address. She has been open to my knowledge. I just want to know why. She said it was just helping out a friend, I don't see it that way. She has stated very strongly that she loves me, cares nothing about him and wants our marriage to go forward and be better than before.

It's only been 3.5 months. Maybe I just haven't got my head wrapped around some things.

Why do you say look for another MC? He has been wonderful.

I'm referring to his comment that no matter what answer you get it won't be good enough.

I may have misinterpreted but you seem very doubtful of many things. Those are things you need to be sure of. You preface many remarks with "according to her." That seems a little doubtful to me and that doubt may be why you are feeling like this.

It also concerns me that your wife adamantly refuses to consider that it was an EA when by definition it clearly was. Sounds a little foggy to me. The fact that she was distant and edgey while it was going on indicates that she was aware.

I am not suggesting that she is not sincere now but as close as she came, all of us here know that standing too close to the fire can reignite the flame. That is why Dr Harley recommends no contact for life. I would like to save you future heartache. Working with this OM that "according to her" she has had no contact with since D-Day is not healthy for your M. Apparently a NC letter was never sent.

God's Blessings,

Say

You are correct. A letter of NC was ever sent. The reason I preface many things with "according to her" is because I have not talked to the OM. I agree, it also concerns me that she refuses to see it as an EA. She says she had no romantic intrest in the OM at all, only frienship. They work in the same factory. She says even before D-Day that she would only see him every 2-3 months. I am doubtful of some things. Like, how do you work in the same factory and only see someone every 2-3 months. I have no way of verifying this. I can only trust that she is telling me the truth and that is difficult at times.

I agree it is not healthy for our M. She seems to be doing everything possible short of quitting her job to ensure NC. Her boss has reassigned some duties to reduce possuble contact.

I may just be having a hard time healing. I was blindsided by all of this.

I understand. Believe me. FWH (now known again as DH) and I are almost 13 months into recovery. I truly felt our marriage had completely recovered and was stronger and better than it had ever been several months ago but I was still feeling apprehensive sometimes.

My DH had told me when he gave me her name that he had no idea where OW lived but that he didn't care if I googled her and went after her with a chain saw as long as I didn't get into trouble. (sweetest thing he has ever said to me) I never contacted her until about two weeks ago. That short conversation took away my doubts and helped me to heal. I don't know exactly why. I think because it made her real to me and I was able to say a few things that needed to be said.

My concern with you is that if your WW can't be made to understand that this truly was an EA and that she hid it from you because you wouldn't understand, she may continue the "friendship" until it becomes more.

As a BS, I guess I will never get over being wary no matter how long I live. I will never trust unconditionally again even though I love unconditionally. My DH has given me carteblanc to continue checking his cell and he checks in half a dozen times a day. Just the far reaching consequences of infidelity.

God's Blessings,

Say

Kudos to you and your DH. I like the chainsaw idea!! (ha ha) We are recovering. Slowly on my part. I have just had a hard time putting it behind me. Time to do that though. If not we will be in this rut forever. As a wise man told me a rut is just a grave with the ends kicked out.

I think she understands, even if she won't admit it, that this was an EA. She keeps saying she had no romantic feelings. We both want our M to be stronger and better than before.

I think I will always be wary, but I have to learn to keep beating her over the head with this. She understands she did wrong and that should be good enough. She has told me to check anything I like and has given me all passwords etc. Just having to work in same place is still a sticking point for me.

Hi Hurtdad - I have some experience with the feelings you are describing. It has been over a year and 1/2 since my wife's EA. I understand the struggle with fear and lack of trust. I also think I understand the drive to assure that your spouse sees and understands the seriousness of the situation and the foolishness of their choices. You may feel that if she doesn't see and appreciate how wrong and dangerous her behavior was, she may make the same dangerous choices again. For me the fear has been almost PTSD-like.

But I would recommend you stop focusing on the symptom which revealed the danger in your marriage (her EA.) Her EA is not the problem. Be grateful for the improvement in your marriage this wake-up call has produced. I would recommend that you continue to look at the aspects of your marriage that allowed this to happen. What did you do/are doing to contribute to this near-miss? If your wife feared your lack of understanding - why is that? What about your marriage left your wife feeling vulnerable to an affair? What emotional needs of hers are going unmet? What love busters do you commit that compromises your intimacy?

I would stop focusing on your wife's poor choice and focus more on what created the distance in your marriage that left her vulnerable to this situation. I agree with your counselor - there is no answer that will satisfy you. There is no good answer to "Why?"

You need to open your mind to the possibility that your view of this situation is also not 100% clear. The way you see things is not necessarily more accurate. It may be different but that does not mean better. What is to be gained by forcing a confession from your wife? Will you be satisfied with anything less than "You are right, I am wrong. You are good and wise. I am bad and foolish?"

Look inward. Learn and understand what you are doing/not doing that leaves your wife feeling vulnerable to creating emotional connections with other men. Then change. The confidence of knowing your are meeting her needs in an expert way is the best remedy to your feelings of insecurity and fear.

BWS we have looked at what got us to this place. We grew apart through busy lives and misplaced priorities. We have corrected that cycle and are working towards a new and better "normal". It just comes out of nowhere into my mind sometimes though. Really working on trying not to let it. Thanks for the response.

HD,

It is perfectly normal for it to come into your mind. I had a rather difficult sleepless night last night and I allowed it to come into my mind a few minutes before I banished it. Time will heal that if you do not allow yourself to obsess on it and if you and your WW are busy working on your M and building positive memories.

I am still worried about the fact that she will not own her choice to cross a line with someone of the opposite sex. That says to me that she does not have proper boundaries and that coupled with the fact that she continues to work with this OM would cause me such anxiety that I would not have been able to heal.

I still believe a NC letter is a must. She needs to let this OM know that the "friendship" they had was not only inappropriate but also hurtful to her DH and that she is sorry to have caused her DH such pain and has no intention of ever doing that in any way again. Then she needs to look for another job.

If your C does not believe this was an EA or does not see the danger of EAs then you need a new C. Please read up on EAs and have your WW do the same. You are taking her word on too many things. It was her ability to deceive you that allowed her to spend so much time talking to this OM about personal things that should be kept within a M. If she does not understand that, she is vulnerable to slipping right back into it. If that happens, I guarantee that it will be worse next D-Day.

I am not going to beat a dead horse with you but I ask that you read and learn from others on this site who have gone through the same thing.

God's Blessings,

Say

She agrees that she crossed a line that shouldn't be crossed. She is genuinely remorseful. The fact that she still works at the same place does cause the healing to take longer. I have explained this to her. Our C does think all of this was inappropriate. He is the one that introduced us to HNHN.

I introduced her to this site. She reads it and likes it. It has given us some great info.

Dr Harley says it is impossible to recover a M from an A while the WS is still working at the same place as PO.

Go back and read all of your posts without reading the replies. Reads like a story from a hopeful man with many doubts and unanswered questions. I can draw no other conclusions from what you have written. I hope that I am wrong.

I believe you are both in denial and until a NC letter is written and you get some verification of what she has told you, your trust is blind. Sorry for the 2X4 but at 3 1/2 months post D-Day, you need to be verifying everything she has told you and checking her actions daily.

Say

Thanks for the 2 x 4. May need a 4 x 4 though. She will not budge on the fact that it was not an EA. Says there were no romantic feelings. Nothing left to do but try to verify. Thanks for all the advice.

Emotional does not = romantic neccesarily. The romantic feelings come after you continue to let someone outside your M fufill your ENs or you fullfill theirs. The withdrawal and changes in her that alerted you to snoop tell me that she was well on her way. I highly suspect that she is continuing the "friendship/work relationship" but has gone further underground. I have watched so many on these boards believe a WS about "just friends" or even EAs that turned out to be PAs. Google EA, print some articles up and read them with her

Is she reading the forums or just the info? If you have not steered her onto the forums, don't. Many foggy WS get enough info to continue gaslighting.

There are those on here that would suggest you have a few words with OM for clarification. I say snoop! I pray you don't get hurt further.

Say

Just spoke with her on the phone. She was upset. Says just because eveyone else says it was EA doesn't mean it was. Said she is tired of being bashed and it is time to move on. Says she loves me and there is no one else, never was. I have tried to tell her these are people who have lived through this and she may need to listen and try to see it from this point of view. Very adamant about not being an A. Thanks to everyone for your help.

I would quietly look into it. I wish you could get more input here. Posting on GQ would be best. Our recovery did not even begin until my DH recognized that he had grievously hurt me and because of that, he had little say so in the R process. I drove that bus. We worked on the M together but unless I could heal from the hurt, we could have no M. Pride and denial will keep your W from admitting any of that but also puts her and your M in a vulnerable and dangerous position.

We have all been through similiar situations here. The Harleys have decades of experience in this. Would she consider coaching from the Harleys?

You will both be in my prayers.

God's Blessings,

Say

Your ongoing discussion of it just may be enough to show her that that is not the path to go on. Continuing to push it will only drive her away. And it's entirely possible she sees nothing to it and has no feelings for him and was just getting a need for conversation or attention met.

If it were me, I would drop it for now, but continue to be watchful.

And make sure you are meeting all her ENs and not LBing.

I totally disagree with that Cat but it is an alternate opinion. I understand exactly how HD feels. I have felt it. It makes no difference if she meant to hurt him or felt it was wrong. She did and it was and now she must be mature enough to fix what she has broken by her deception. Denial says fog and guilt to me.

Sweeping this under the rug and remaining watchful may be all that he can do right now but I would not have been able to do it. Having your S tell you that it is not what it appears to be when you know that it is makes you feel crazy. All of HD's posts point to that feeling. Only a NC letter and REAL NC including not working with OP will make that feeling go away. That is a consequence that his wife faces for her decision to lie to him by ommision. She doesn't like that consequence so she denies.

HD, have you read "Not Just Friends?" Do what ever you are able to live with but I would have to find out for myself. It is my opinion that you will not be able to live with it for long.

God's Blessings,

say

I was more or less thinking that if he backs off a little bit for the next few days or week, they may resume somewhat of a decent relationship, at least talking to each other without being mad and her ready to walk, that they can get to a point where she's willing to talk about it more. She obviously won't be doing that at this point.

Unless he's got some proof of something, rehashing it and expecting an apology/amends when she continues to refuse to acknowledge an EA will only end him up alone, and then there would be nothing to work on.

Not saying he doesn't have a right to feel how he does, I would too; just that continuing on a path that is resulting in nothing but anger doesn't seem to be working for him; try something else.

I'm sorry saynomore, but I just read this whole thread and I absolutely agree with cat and with BWS. Hurtdad, I think you need to give more thought to what BS said:


I think the last thing LA said also is important:


There IS such a thing as unwarranted jealousy. This situation isn't necessarily the same as saynomore's. This is going around and around with hurtdad no closer to a solution than he was when he started this thread. He says


I know we are told to trust no MC who isn't on board with MB, but their MC was using HNHN and that's how hurtdad found this site in the first place. It's possible that a trained MC who sees both of them interacting in person may have a better handle on the situation.

Hurtdad, what answer DO you want? What are you still seeking?

If it was an EA, why aren't you in Plan A? Plan A includes you working on YOUR stuff, doing things that YOU can do to improve the M, showing your W why she should choose you over the OM. Are you doing these things? What about BWS's questions - what LBs are you committing? What ENs are you not meeting? And Plan A doesn't involve badgering your W with R talk constantly.

If it wasn't an EA, you need to figure out what your motivation is, what old wound are you trying to heal, what's blocking you from healing. Or what pay-off are you getting from continuing to accuse your W.

I believe HD has been doing Plan-A. They read HNHN toegether and are presumably trying to fill each other's Love Banks and know about LBs. After 3 1/2 months, HD still has these feelings that his wife refuses to acknowledge. I am all for Plan-a. It brought my M to a state where we could work together and restore it but...I have watched far too many BS sit back and Plan-a while there gut told them that things weren't right, only to face a PA in the very near future.

I would like to bring some of the big guns in on this to help HD. They have had more experience than all of us put together. I just don't think this smells right and I don't think HD does either.

God's Blessings,

Say