My daughter had surgery on the 24th. Ear tubes put back in, adnoids and tonsils taken out. I was there the entire time with my ex and her husband. The agreement (verbal, nothing in writing) was we would swap out weekends so I would have her two weeks in row then after her sugery this week I would give up my Thursday (yesterday) get her for a few hours on Saturday (provided she was ok physically) then resume normal schedule next week - Thursday the 1st - so should could convalesce at home with her mom (who doesn't work) at home, thus having 24 hour care. Every person I trust - parents, 3 close female friends (two of which have children), my girlfriend, and one other friend all told me this was a good idea. My instincts said no. Why? Because every time I give up something I never get anything in return and thus end up losing time with my daughter. I agreed to this plan. Did so without complaint. As of twenty minutes ago my daughter was doing great. The drugs are through her system, she's napping normally, eating better, and she's even beent to Target and played lightly outside with her mom, stepdad, baby sister and grandmother (who's inexplicably in town for a week to help take care of the baby and my daughter. I say inexplicably because any mother who can't handle two children make my eyebrows raise). During my phone call a few minutes ago I was told my daughter was fine, sleeping, and scheduled to go to a Fall festival tomorrow morning with her family. So, she's ok to go out tomorrow but not ok for me to pick her up for three hours. My plans for her were to take her for an ice cream cone, watch a movie, hug and kiss her continually, then take her back. My ex is telling me she doesn't think it's a good idea. Yep, screwed again. So you make the call (don't talk to a certain person who quits this site every five minutes before answering me, cause according to her I'm a terrible father and person).

a) do you say nothing to your ex about previous arrangement, suck it up and lose again?

b) fight for the 3 hours even if it means arguing and raising heck?

Thanks, I'll hang up and listen.

I would bring it up again. Politely at first.

In the future, I would confirm agreements in writing or e-mail so that I could send that back to them with a restatement of my expectations.

___________________________________________

Hey, I have an idea....if daughter is not doing well enough to come to you, perhaps you need to rent/buy the movie and snacks and go to her. I know your xw and family would love for you to spend that time cuddling daughter on the couch in their family room. :RollieEyes:

Suggest that daughter come to you or you go to daughter - or, if daughter is doing so poorly, you meet xw and daughter at doctor's office so there can be an unexpected followup. :crosseyedcrazy:

First of all . . .


I think it makes total sense to for a mother to get extra help if she foresees caring for a baby and a child recovering from surgery. She couldn't have known at the time she arranged things how well or not your daughter would have been recovering. Better to make arrangements so you're covered if one child needs extra care, taking her away from the other. I think you're being needlessly judgmental and maybe dismissive of the effort involved in caring for two children -- especially when one is ill.

Second of all . . .

These remarks make you come off as really whiney and unpleasant. I imagine negotiating with you can be really aggravating, which probably makes your XW less amenable. There's just something about how you are expressing yourself that makes me think you bring out the worst in your XW.

Third of all . . .

This parenthetical comment was unnecessary. It certainly doesn't contribute to the reader's understanding of your situation. Anyone sufficiently familiar with the situation to understand what you're alluding to is not likely to change their opinion about this post or how they respond to you based on this parenthetical statement. It would have been classier for you to have simply left it out. It's almost like you couldn't resist making a cheap shot. I don't know you, but I'm guessing you're better than that.

And finally . . .

I'm sorry it looks like you're not getting the time with your daughter you were expecting. I know that's a disappointment. How did you and XW leave things? Any chance of reevaluating tomorrow morning? Or shortening your time to just an hour to avoid tiring DD out? If not, is there any way you can drop by her house for a few minutes tomorrow? You could bring her flowers and a get well card. If not that, maybe you can spend some time on the phone with her tomorrow. Not sure if she's old enough for phone.

So I guess I'm looking for options that get you something (if not everything) that don't involve fighting and don't involve flat out sucking it up and losing again.

I'd say let it go for now and see if you can't use it to your advantage later as a bargaining chip.

in the prep room before her surgery I played with my daughter and gave her a coloring book w markers that my gf and her kids picked out for her and a Mickey Mouse movie I bought for her. She used both the afternoon after her surgery.

She's over 48 hours removed from surgery and doing great. I talked to her at 2:15edt today. I have been calling twice a day. The painkiller makes her sleepy but she's been to Target with her mom and outside with her stepdad. She's doing great. My ex told me they were planning on attending a Fall festival nearby tomorrow morning. She is more than capable of hanging with me for two or three hours (all I'm asking for).

sorry I took the shot at the person who hangs here. Earlier today a ghost relayed some negative information and that combined with my ex's attempt to back out on our agreement got the best of me.

I say call the ex, tell her that although you initally agreed to not take your daughter this weekend, because you weren't sure how she would be feeling after the surgery, and that you would now like to have her for a few hours seeing how she is recovering much better than anticipated.


Ronda

I don't see how you are losing any time with your child since you are swapping weekends and thursday for saturday.

You came to an agreement with your XW, now honor it. Don't fret over whether your child is not bedridden. Thank God she isn't.

In the future, consider whether your child will be cared for just as well with you as with your XW. If your child is taught that every time she is ill she doesn't have to go over by Dad, you will be missing out on a lot of time with her.

You still seem to be in defense mode with your XW rather that working together as co-parents. Even though you came to a verbal agreement you are second guessing your decisions and whether your XW has alterior motives.

Yes, gasp, everyone can ooohh and awww.. I am going to respond to this post. I am only responding because I know this situation all too well as it has been going on for the last 2 years and it appears that it is still as it was. My personal feelings aside gekko, you know I know this situation and I am not going to tell you anything different than I did in the many phone calls I would get when you needed to talk about just this same thing. Take it for what it is worth. My answers are below:



My daughter had surgery on the 24th. Ear tubes put back in, adnoids and tonsils taken out. I was there the entire time with my ex and her husband. The agreement (verbal, nothing in writing)

You should know by now that you need EVERYTHING in writing with this woman. EVERYTHING. I am not saying this sarcastically, I am saying it firmly because this has happened before.


My instincts said no. Why? Because every time I give up something I never get anything in return and thus end up losing time with my daughter.

SO, stop giving up time with her. This same thing has happened countless times gekko. You try to be the "good guy" and give in to her mother for changed schedules, extra time, etc, and you are right, it does bite you in the a**. So, why do you keep doing it?
I think you think, and I have told you this before, that if you be the "good guy" and give in to her mother that her mother will have an epiphany and see what a great guy you are and stop being so hard to work with. That is NOT ever going to happen. She will continue to manipulate you as long as you allow her to get away with it. Her opinion of you is probably never going to change. She holds a grudge (I can relate. Not saying it is right, but it is what it is)and that's not going to change on her part.

You have every right to be firm with your ex. She has nothing over you, you pay your child support on time all the time, you have your daughter when you are supposed to, you don't give up time with her, don't ask your ex to take her so you can go off and do things, etc. YOU have done your part as a father and yet you still seem to fear standing up to her. She cannot take your daughter away from you. You give her way more power than she actually has. Now, in this particular situation, it is tough. Children 9 times out of 10 want to be with their mothers when they are sick. I might let this time slide, BUT, in the future you have got to nip this in the bud and stand up to her. One of the last conversations you and I had was that you said you felt your ex controlled the time you have with your daughter, the schedule, etc. And what did I say back to you? I said "yes,she does because YOU allow her to". Everyone here can give you all the advice in the world at what you should do but I am going to say 2 things to that. Number 1, what are YOU going to do to change the situation because in 2 years it has not changed. What you have been doing is not working and it just makes you angry and resentful, I would say it is time for a change. and number 2, YOU have to make the final decision as to what will change and be done. That way, if it does or does not work, you have no one to blame but yourself or pat yourself on the back. Too many times you do what others tell you and when it doesn't work out you are mad at THEM for it.


(don't talk to a certain person who quits this site every five minutes before answering me, cause according to her I'm a terrible father and person).

Well, first off, my post here as NOTHING to do with my personal feelings toward you and your actions during and after our relationship. I do not think that YOU as a human being are terrible, I only have issue with some of the things that took place. I think YOU as a human being mean well and do try, but there are some things that I personally do not feel you have a clue about. And you would probably say the same about me. As far as thinking you are a terrible father, I never once said that. If anything, I felt that was the one area you over compensated in (if you can call it that) trying incredibly hard to be the perfect father, too perfect. A balance needs to be found, but one cannot fault you for that.

As far as her mother being in town and the comment about having 2 children. Well, gekko, have you ever had to watch and take care of 2 children full time? One is a year old and one is 5. Remember when your child was 1 and crawling/walking, getting into everything? Put that on top of caring for a child who just had surgery. I raised twins practically by myself since birth and trust me, I called in reinforcements when I needed to. I can completely understand why her mother would be in town to help. I am sure other moms here would attest to that as well.

a) do you say nothing to your ex about previous arrangement, suck it up and lose again?

b) fight for the 3 hours even if it means arguing and raising heck?

As far as choice A and choice B, YOU know what you need to do, you have known for a long time what you need to do, it is just a matter of YOU doing it.

Booka, using it as a bargaining chip won't happen. Gekko, you know that too. You give your ex an inch and she takes a mile. Every single time you have given her extra time, and then gone back at a later date to remind her of that when you wanted extra time what has she said to you? NO NO and NO. Bargaining chips are useless in this situation. The extra time given to her either needs to stop, or, continue dealing with this situation of anger and resentment over and over and over again.

Curious: you hit the nail on the head on most of what you said.
And as far as the cheap shot, don't worry about it. I deserve it.
We are both better people than that, but both have strong personalities and some deep seeded resentments. I am just as guilty as he and maybe one day we'll both be able to get past it.

I'll go back to my own thread now.

Ok, here it is plain and simple.

You are nothing more than a CS paycheck to your XW, not a co-parent and the time lost is irrelevant to her.

You bringing up the lost time will only irritate her and she might just very well make things REALLY inconvenient for you.

Since they always win, I say just let it slide and be thankful she is allowing you to see your child at all.

I like Cin's idea of watching a movie at her house if they won't let you take her.

I can't even read the other stuff about you old R. No fighting here guys.

Newly,

I mentioned nothing about the old R in my post. No fighting here.

I only commented because I am very familiar with this situation and I put any other feelings to the side. This was discussed by he and I as recently as this past January.

It was nothing more and nothing less than that. Promise.

(BTW, we still need to do that new england 2nd annual get together!
Give me some more dates over on my thread that Truly started on me if you want to so we don't t/j.)

Yes you did. I won't bother to quote it, it's there for anyone who would bother to read it.

In all fairness though, gekko opened the door for response from you, with his passive reference.

Both of you need to grow up and move on. The fact that you both still harbor resentment is an indicator that you are not over each other. If you were over each other you would be indifferent.

[quote=ba109
Both of you need to grow up and move on. The fact that you both still harbor resentment is an indicator that you are not over each other. If you were over each other you would be indifferent. [/quote]

Agree......however, I will admit that this "saga" has been a neverending source of entertainment for me these last years. It's caused me to focus not on my issues, but on the issues of these two....kinda fun.............OK, I said it...

Laura

Uh...were gekko and mlhb married? I don't get it.

Anyway, gekko, kids need their mothers when they're recuperating. It's a biological thing. *ducking* Men can be wonderful fathers, but nothing beats a mother's nesting instincts when a child isn't 100 percent. Just give her this time with her mom, spare her the anxiety of watching her parents argue over her, and ask for an extra couple hours next week.

I'm not going to flame you, but I will express my opinion on this.

I think it's crap. It's the sort of traditional and prejudiced maternal conceit that automatically gives mothers primary custody in divorce cases for no other reason than because that's how it's always been. The dad can truly have the title of "World's Greatest Dad" (just like it says on the coffee mugs), but unless the mom is a cheating, drug abusing whore, statutory law automatically defers to her parenting superiority.

As a father who feels that family law in this state (Texas) is antiquated and unfairly balanced in favor of the mother, I tend to make a point of it whenever I can.

No need to duck, but I do think you're off the mark here. Perhaps, perhaps, what you said might apply for a newborn. But I can assure you that there are plenty of dads who are much more nurturing than the moms. Certainly when my kids need nurturing, they would come to me, since their mom tends to run off screaming.

AGG

Ok I'll stick my big fat foot in.

I think it is true that there are hormone changes mothers experience that men don't experience. This can produce intense bonding with the mothers more than the fathers. OTOH it can also backfire and result in postpartum depression which could even possibly lead to neglect or abuse.

Also, we all know cases of loving non-biological parents and of loving single fathers and abusive mothers. A really good friend of mine passed away a year ago, he was adopted and so when he gf got pregnant he wanted to keep the baby but his gf didn't. She agreed to have the baby and give him complete custody. He raised his son as a wonderful single dad with lots of help from his family, his adoptive parents. When he passed away, his adoptive parents had to request that she give complete parental rights to them. She did, since she didn't really know the child at all. She'd only seen him once after he was born, I believe. (They didn't continue dating after he was born.)

It's probably safe to say that the norm in society is that the mother does more of the childcare, so usually the mother would be more attuned to the child's needs, and the child would be more comfortable with the mother when sick. But I would say that is certainly not true in all cases.

I ditto that. On top of that, DD's mother has a medical background. :RollieEyes:

I am not going to blanket statement everyone on the whole nuturing statement. I will say that I think women are wired to nuture whereas men have to work at it. This is a result of the design intent by our creator. Certainly, there are plenty of nuturing men out there and many moms who are terrible at it. You just have to take each person individually, as with most things.

So you are telling us that just because you are a woman, you are a better parent because of "biological" reasons. That is BS!

I can assure you, that when my kids are sick, hurt, scared or just need help, I am there. I can't tell you how many times I have stayed up all night with a sick child, cleaned up vomit, taken the kids to the doctor, etc, etc. (Much, much more than my X) Oh, and she is a woman so now I am really confused?!?!?

When my daughter broke up with her BF, she wanted to be with me ALL the time to talk (even on her Mom's night).

Really, tell us men here that love our children dearly, and would give our lives for them in a heartbeat, why you think we can't be nurturing to our children?

Good grief, people. It's a generalization. You know what that is, don't you?

I put it to you that most men who are at this website are quite a bit more in tune with themselves and relationships than the average joe out there. I've certainly seen my share of men who duck and run when it's time to turn their nurture button on.

I know lots of men who aren't on this forum who are great dad's! They live, eat, breath their kids just as their mothers do.

My son's father isn't one of them...but my daughters father is...well was...until the OW came into the picture. He has his moment's and he tries his best when he's allowed.

I honestly can't think of one dad that I personally know that isn't a nurturing father. Both of my brothers are very involved dad's...my oldest brother is a mentor to alot of the area kids, including my son. In fact, in a few weeks is my son's Senior Recognition for football and knowing that his father will probably not bother to be there we have already discussed having my dad and two brothers stand in for his father as they have been the ones to teach him all the "man" stuff.

btw....I do agree with AGG that mothers may tend to be more nurturing when they are newborns...

Ronda