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The why not just quote some of those "cons" instead?


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Originally Posted by DIG
I think you can't answer that question honestly without making McCain not seem as good and wholesome as you are trying to portray him

That's the part that cracks me up too... The McCain supporters here have yet to acknowledge any con against Palin or McCain, and yet call themselves "open-minded". It's as if admitting anything less total perfection in McCain/Palin is tantamount to treason.

OTOH, those of us leaning for Obama, after acknowledging that it it took a lot of thinking and weighing of factors, are accused of "not thinking", "having our heads in our butts", etc...

How ironic to be accused of not thinking by the very folks who refuse to demonstrate any thinking of their own.

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Originally Posted by AGoodGuy
Originally Posted by DIG
I think you can't answer that question honestly without making McCain not seem as good and wholesome as you are trying to portray him

That's the part that cracks me up too... The McCain supporters here have yet to acknowledge any con against Palin or McCain, and yet call themselves "open-minded". It's as if admitting anything less total perfection in McCain/Palin is tantamount to treason.

OTOH, those of us leaning for Obama, after acknowledging that it it took a lot of thinking and weighing of factors, are accused of "not thinking", "having our heads in our butts", etc...

How ironic to be accused of not thinking by the very folks who refuse to demonstrate any thinking of their own.

AGG

Treasonous [censored]!! rotflmao


Just kidding...good points.


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Or maybe it's just as simple as I haven't had the time TODAY to do another 2 hour evaluaion and comment sessions as I in the wee hours of this morning, before the work day.

You guys are simply amazing.

And pray tell, DIG, just what was so "outlandish" or "avoiding" in asking you to list was might be the important issues to you that you would like to discuss?


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Just anything, anything but those cons.....


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I didn't say there was anything outlandish about it.


I didn't have to go into detail about what I wanted you to say about Obama. Yet you had a wealth of knowledge on his cons. So I asked you to do the same regarding McCain and then you wanted me to be specific. That is what I found amusing. If you want me to have a chance to do an honest assessment I want you to tell me why you chose one over other. What was your deciding factors in doing so and what about each of them made you think twice about picking one or the other(by this what turned you off about each).

Since you have put into great detail why Obama is not your choice you don't have to list his cons, however I would like to know what is right with his campaign. Also I want to know what in detail is right and wrong in your eyes with McCain's campaign?


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Ok Foreverhers you still have not given McCain's list a through once over. If I am sitting on the fence and I can't decide which one to choose how do you convince me that one is better than the other? I have no certain points I want you discuss. I want you to discuss his list in full the way you did Obama's. I would like you to do that to the best of your abilities and honestly with out bias.

I quoted you here.

"I am waiting with Bated Breath."

You are not undecided about who you will vote for and since you don't believe me when I say I am open to my choices. Let's pretend I can't decide who is the better man for the job. What makes McCain best for the job and what about his campaign don't you like? It is clear you are for McCain if not the fact you can go on in great detail about all of Obama's faults yet you can't do the same for McCain but you are dodging questions with the same skill of both McCain and Palin.

That's correct, DIG, I am not undecided about who I will vote for.

And all you are doing is "baiting." That's rather obvious from your admission, "I have no certain points I want you discuss."

So when you say, "I want you to discuss his list in full the way you did Obama's. I would like you to do that to the best of your abilities and honestly with out bias," I would ask "why?". IF you already have your mind made up and you have NO issues that you are unsure of, then WHAT is the purpose of wanting me to spend MY time answering YOUR questions?

It's not that I can't, but I am curious as to WHY you seem to think it's so important, given that your mind is already made up?



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This is comedy. You are doing the whole avoidance thing just like McCain/Palin. Is that why you are for them? You all have avoiding questions down to a science?

You are right, this is becoming a comdey. I am not avoiding anything. I asked you for specifics and you don't have any.

I HAVE answered many of these "point" on several threads and posts. But are you saying that means I'm "avoiding things" because I don't respond WHEN and HOW you want it?


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I think you can't answer that question honestly without making McCain not seem as good and wholesome as you are trying to portray him and since you have your mind made up you don't want to start doubting your decision so you dance around the subject.

You can think whatever you want to think. That does not make you right.


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Seeing as how you want specifics how is this? Can you go into detail about his economic plan, his plans for education, his health care ). His moral character. His rage issues. In general why he would be a better choice for office?

Yes I can, but not right this instant as I am out the door in 2 minutes to see my son's ballgame and to visit with the grandkids.


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Or maybe you don't know much along these lines because he himself doesn't know. With all his experience and knowledge he seems to have even less of an idea of what to do when/if he get into office then Obama. This is my take on it. I could be wrong and I would like you to fill me in so I can make a better assessment. The only real issues McCain ever really seems to focus on is attacking Obama and deflecting questions he is ill equipped to answer.

Right. Spoken like a true left-winger swept up in the talking points of the liberals.




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Folks,

I have just locked most of the political threads where rampant disrespect and veering off topic has happened.

These threads are exhausting for the moderators.

STOP THE PERSONAL ATTACKS

Stop being disrespectful.

Discuss ideas - not other posters.

This thread will be locked if you cannot exercise some control folks.

General Questions II really could use you guys helping people in trouble rather than endless debates and bickering about issues where no one is going to change their minds.


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Ok FHS,

I haven't seen any of your other post regarding the election. If you have already gone into detail like you claim you have why are you making this so hard? All you have to do is copy and paste from your previous post. You won't even have to type( saying this because you said that you are slow going in typing.)

Also why do you keep saying my mind is made up? I am saying I am open to going either way yet you seem determined to tell me other wise.

So from your last reply I am guessing after you get through with your RL things you have to do that you will address my questions. Is that a correct assumption?

If I am spoken like a true left winger it is because you still haven't given me anything to the contrary of my thought, so that is all I have to go on. If/Whenever you get around to making the list. I will be all eyes.


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Originally Posted by Dufresne
This thread will be locked if you cannot exercise some control folks.

Of all the threads you mods have locked down, this hitherto unlocked one is the ONLY one I promised that I'd eat my cyber-hat over, if it didn't get locked by election day. Thanks for relieving my mind. I was starting to get worried! laugh

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Originally Posted by thndrnltng
Of all the threads you mods have locked down, this hitherto unlocked one is the ONLY one I promised that I'd eat my cyber-hat over, if it didn't get locked by election day. Thanks for relieving my mind. I was starting to get worried! laugh

Well don't get out the salt and pepper yet - my guess is your cyber hat will be safe. There's still a couple of weeks to go after all........


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Originally Posted by thndrnltng
Originally Posted by Dufresne
This thread will be locked if you cannot exercise some control folks.

Of all the threads you mods have locked down, this hitherto unlocked one is the ONLY one I promised that I'd eat my cyber-hat over, if it didn't get locked by election day. Thanks for relieving my mind. I was starting to get worried! laugh

Well, well, well t&l...Fancy seeing you here! rotflmao

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Originally Posted by MrsWondering
Well, well, well t&l...Fancy seeing you here! rotflmao Mrs. W

YES, You do see me here, in contrast to my stated intention to avoid these sites like some virulent and fulminating plague. However I never said I wouldn't post at all, only that I would make no political posts. Snarkiness and smart patootie remarks I could make...serious, thoughtful comments not so much.

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Hey Mrs W. How are you? I am happy to see you. You, T&L, Dufresne are too funny. rotflmao

Of all the threads you mods have locked down, this hitherto unlocked one is the ONLY one I promised that I'd eat my cyber-hat over, if it didn't get locked by election day. Thanks for relieving my mind. I was starting to get worried! \:D

This one is worth $25.00


YES, You do see me here, in contrast to my stated intention to avoid these sites like some virulent and fulminating plague. However I never said I wouldn't post at all, only tht I would make no political posts. Snarkiness and smart pattotie remarks I coud make...musteriously serious comments not so much.

This one is worth about $50.00


Well don't get out the salt and pepper yet - my guess is your cyber hat will be safe. There's still a couple of weeks to go after all........

This one is priceless.

When I read this it made my day.

All though I will try not to make any more DJ's. The laughs I got from the warning and your comments after was worth it.

When I read T&L's comment about eatting said hat. I was wondering if it would go down easy. Then when T&L said this

"Of all the threads you mods have locked down, this hitherto unlocked one is the ONLY one I promised that I'd eat my cyber-hat over, if it didn't get locked by election day. Thanks for relieving my mind. I was starting to get worried! \:D "

I was beside myself.

Mrs. W. I wanted to let you know that whenever I see a mullet I think of you. We will always have the mullet. dance2

Last edited by DIG; 10/21/08 07:21 AM.

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Originally Posted by DIG
Mrs. W. I wanted to let you know that whenever I see a mullet I think of you. We will always have the mullet.

As a former mullet rocker, I am totally offended. What's wrong with being all business in the front and a party in the back? rant2

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Want2Stay, Not a thing. LOL :)If you like you can add a pic of you with your mullet and I will add it to my sig.

That way we can have an ode to the mullet. rotflmao

Last edited by DIG; 10/21/08 07:19 AM.

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Originally Posted by DIG
So from your last reply I am guessing after you get through with your RL things you have to do that you will address my questions. Is that a correct assumption?

That's correct, DIG.


Originally Posted by DIG
I haven't seen any of your other post regarding the election. If you have already gone into detail like you claim you have why are you making this so hard? All you have to do is copy and paste from your previous post. You won't even have to type( saying this because you said that you are slow going in typing.)

DIG, with all due respect, why should *I* have to spend time going back over previous threads and posts to pick out what YOU might want to read when YOU can more easily just search my posts and read what you want to read?

WHAT have YOU posted that you have not copied from a website? I don't recall YOU posting YOUR thoughts and opinions. All you seem to be doing is DEMANDING that I post my opinions and evaluations, and when there is the slightest delay in doing so, you and Krazy, et.al., start screaming that I am "avoiding the issues" and "can't say WHY I support John McCain" for President.

How juvenile is that?

However, let me "cut through the muck" once again and DO what you have requested. I WILL copy and repost a previous message that is fundamental to my decision to NOT vote for Obama under ANY circumstances. SINCE ONLY the Democrat or Republican nominee WILL BE the next President, I WILL vote for McCain regardless of whether or not I "agree" with everything HE proposes. Make no mistake about it, DIG, I do not consider John McCain to be a "staunch conservative" and there ARE things that I do NOT agree with in "John McCain."

That being said, Barack Obama is a socialist, there is no dout about it. Barack Obama is as far-left of a Liberal as any seems to be able to go. Barack Obama is COMPLETELY inexperienced to LEAD the nation as President and Commander-in-Chief (as even his running mate Joe Biden attested to in the Democrat Primaries and has reitereated as recently as YESTERDAY in acknowledging that "foreigners" will "test" Obama. They won't "test" McCain because they KNOW McCain believes in a strong military and for standing up to Radical Islam and other nutcases around the world.

However, let me end this post for now. I have much work to do today IRL. The next post will be the "copy" of a previous post, as you requested, and is WHY I cannot, and will not, vote for Obama under any circumstances. If I can find the time, I will later expand upon that post to show you what Obama REALLY believes and why it makes him, admittedly in MY opinion, totally and completely UNFIT to be the president of a dog pound, much less the President of the United States.


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Want2Stay - "palling around with terrorists" doesn't come close to the monumental lack of judgment that Barak Obama has SHOWN throughout his life as being HIS biggest problem. Ignore it as you like, but it WILL become very evident even if he should become the President and can no longer "hide" from making the "tough decisions."


But since you are "carrying Obama's water" on his PRO-abortion at any cost position, here's a little something concerning the REAL issue....the difference in the Federal legislation and the Illiniois legislation was not the wording...it was Barak Obama and his REFUSAL to add the federal words to the Illinois bill.



http://www.citizenlink.org/content/A000007034.cfm#

Obama Blocked Born Alive Infant Protection Act

by Jill Stanek, guest reporter

He often stood alone as an Illinois lawmaker in opposition to protections for babies who survived abortion.

Note: This report first appeared in the April issue of Citizen magazine.

On Jan. 10, 2005, newly elected U.S. Sen. Barack Obama visited former colleagues and staffers at the Illinois state Capitol, where he had served seven years as state senator. I happened to be at the Capitol that day, too, and a friend and I took the opportunity to speak to Obama, who had not yet achieved rock-star status and was still approachable.

We were in Springfield to lobby for passage of the state Born Alive Infant Protection Act, legislation that would require hospitals to care for infants who survive an abortion. Obama spoke against the legislation in 2001 and 2002 and single-handedly defeated it in committee in 2003.

My friend stood in Obama’s path and said, “Senator, we are going to pass Born Alive here in Illinois this year.”

Obama smiled smoothly and agreed, “I think you will,” adding, “I would have voted for the Born Alive Infant Protection Act in Illinois had it been worded the same as the federal bill. I think that’s the position the Democrats should take.”
There’s just one thing he forgot to mention: Obama had stopped his committee from adding the federal wording.
With Obama no longer in the state Senate, the Born Alive legislation passed in 2005.


First encounter

An Illinois lawmaker offered the first draft of the state’s Born Alive Infant Protection Act in 2001 after I revealed publicly that Christ Hospital left babies who survived abortion — viable babies whose delivery was induced, and whom the abortionist intended to kill but somehow survived — in a utility room to die.

The bill, sponsored by state Sen. Patrick O’Malley of Oak Lawn defined “born alive” using language identical to that of federal legislation introduced in 2000 by Rep. Charles Canady, R-Fla., who in turn drafted wording developed by the World Health Organization in 1950 and adopted by the United Nations in 1955:
The term “born alive,” with respect to a member of the species homo sapiens, means the complete expulsion or extraction from its mother of that member, at any stage of development, who after such expulsion or extraction breathes or has a beating heart, pulsation of the umbilical cord, or definite movement of voluntary muscles, regardless of whether the umbilical cord has been cut, and regardless of whether the expulsion or extraction occurs as a result of natural or induced labor, cesarean section, or induced abortion.

I first encountered Barack Obama on March 27, 2001, when I testified before the Illinois Senate Judiciary Committee, of which he was a member. My testimony included my description of holding a premature aborted baby until he died:

One night, a nursing co-worker was taking an aborted Down’s syndrome baby who was born alive to our Soiled Utility Room because his parents did not want to hold him, and she did not have time to hold him. I could not bear the thought of this suffering child dying alone in a Soiled Utility Room, so I cradled and rocked him for the 45 minutes that he lived. He was 21 to 22 weeks old, weighed about ½ pound, and was about 10 inches long. He was too weak to move very much, expending any energy he had trying to breathe. Toward the end, he was so quiet that I couldn’t tell if he was still alive unless I held him up to the light to see if his heart was still beating through his chest wall. After he was pronounced dead, we folded his little arms across his chest, wrapped him in a tiny shroud, and carried him to the hospital morgue where all of our dead patients are taken.

Obama questioned whether the born alive legislation would impede the right to abort and doctor/patient decision-making. He and an American Civil Liberties Union attorney speculated Born Alive would force doctors to resuscitate nonviable aborted babies.
Obama opposed Born Alive in committee, but voted “present” — neither “yes” nor “no,” but merely “present” — on the state Senate floor, one of many “present” votes that Hillary Clinton has cited as evidence that Obama lacks leadership skills. Clinton voted for the federal Born Alive bill, putting her on record as more pro-life than Obama.


Constitutional blindness

A graduate of Harvard Law School, Obama taught constitutional law at the University of Chicago for 10 years. Both schools are listed in the top 10 law schools in the country.

But Obama revealed his constitutional blind spot in his book The Audacity of Hope:

“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created [emphasis added] equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among those are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.”

… (T)he essential idea behind the Declaration — that we are born [emphasis added] into this world free, all of us; that each of us arrives with a bundle of rights that can’t be taken away by any person or any state without just cause; that through our own agency we can, and must, make of our lives what we will — is one that every American understands.

Note Obama’s choice of the word “born” over the word “created.” Perhaps that helps explain his support for unrestricted abortion. Also note that our "bundle of rights” can be “taken away” with “just cause.”

Obama clearly considers abortion a “just cause.” Here is how he argued against Born Alive during Illinois Senate debate in 2001:
… I just want to suggest … that this (legislation) is probably not going to survive constitutional scrutiny.

Number one, whenever we define a pre-viable fetus as a person that is protected by the equal protection clause or the other elements in the Constitution, what we’re really saying is, in fact, that they are persons that are entitled to the kinds of protections that would be provided to a — child, a 9-month-old — child that was delivered to term. That determination then, essentially, if it was accepted by a court, would forbid abortions to take place.

I mean, it — it would essentially bar abortions, because the equal protection clause does not allow somebody to kill a child, and if this is a child, then this would be an antiabortion statute. For that purpose, I think it would probably be found unconstitutional.

The legislation passed the Senate but did not survive in the House.

When Rep. O’Malley reintroduced Born Alive and its companion bills in 2002, they headed again to the same committee, where Obama rewrote history:

"Ms. Stanek, your initial testimony last year showed your dismay at the lack of regard for human life. I agreed with you last year, and we suggested that there be a Comfort Room or something of that nature be done. The hospital acknowledged that and changes were made and you are still unimpressed. It sounds to me like you are really not interested in how these fetuses are treated, but rather not providing absolutely any medical care or life to them."

Of course, Obama had not agreed with me the year before, and I was the one who had told him about the Comfort Room, which the hospital created in response to my testimony: "We now have this prettily wallpapered room. … There is even a nice wooden rocker in the room to rock live aborted babies to death."
The hospital made live birth abortions look nicer, but the end result was still dead babies.

“What we are doing here is to create one more burden on women, and I can’t support that,” Obama concluded, and voted “no” in committee again.

The bill went again to the Senate floor, where Obama was the sole speaker against it, claiming that it would impose a “burden” on physicians:

[T]his [legislation] puts the burden on the attending physician who has determined, since they are performing this procedure, that in fact, this is a nonviable fetus.


Troubled conscience?

Democrats won control of the state Senate in November 2002, and when Born Alive was reintroduced for the third time in 2003, it was directed to the Obama-chaired, infamously liberal Health and Human Services Committee, where he simply refused to call it for a vote.

By this time Obama was running for U.S. Senate. He won his primary in March 2004, and Republicans recruited former U.N. Ambassador Alan Keyes, who lived in Maryland, to oppose him. It was Obama’s position against Born Alive that persuaded Keyes to run, as he stated in his announcement speech:

"When I was first approached about this possibility… I have to say that my reaction was negative…. What finally caught my eye, however… what finally arrested my attention and forced me to consider whether I not only had the opportunity to oppose him, but the obligation… was when I learned that (Obama) had actually, in April 2002, apparently cast a vote that would continue to allow live birth abortions in the state of Illinois … .

"We are talking about a situation in which, in the course of an abortion procedure, a child has been born alive — is out of the womb, breathing and living on its own — and he cast a vote against the idea that we should not stand by and let that child die!"

This was why Keyes alleged during their campaign that Jesus Christ would not vote for Barack Obama, as he explained in an interview with an NBC affiliate:

Christ would not stand idly by while an infant child in that situation died. … Christ would not vote for Barack Obama, because Barack Obama has voted to behave in a way that it is inconceivable for Christ to have behaved.

Obama later admitted Keyes’ comment “nagged” him and has written or spoke about it several times, although he always misrepresents Keyes’ rationale as being about abortion support when it was specifically about infanticide support. In a July 2006 opinion piece in USA Today, restated later in The Audacity of Hope, Obama wrote:

If I am opposed to abortion for religious reasons but seek to pass a law banning the practice, I cannot simply point to the teachings of my church. I have to explain why abortion violates some principle that is accessible to people of all faiths, including those with no faith at all.

Obama’s faith has come into question on the campaign trail. Accused of being a Muslim, he’s insisted that he’s “rooted in the Christian tradition” and has a “personal relationship with Jesus Christ.” In fact, Obama has attended the largest church in one of America’s most stridently pro-abortion denominations — the United Church of Christ — for 20 years. His church, Trinity, is located just five miles from Christ Hospital. Obama’s pastor, the Rev. Dr. Jeremiah Wright, served on the board of Christ Hospital’s health care system.

It’s ironic in the extreme that the most determined opponents of preborn life — and even those who are born — embrace the name of the One who caused John the Baptist to leap in his mother’s womb.
Jill Stanek writes a weekly column for WorldNetDaily.com and is a pro-life speaker and blogger.

(NOTE: Referral to Web sites not produced by Focus on the Family is for informational purposes only and does not necessarily constitute an endorsement of the sites' content.)



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ForeverHers, You are making DJs I never once yelled. I am not even angry. I am simply waiting with bated breath.

Also I did try and find your old post that showed your likes and dislikes of McCain and after going through about 3 pages of your post I decided to wait and see if you would indeed post them.

I see you still have not done it and you seem to be angry for whatever reason. I have yet to determine. Honey if you haven't notice then let me tell you I very rarely get angry over differences of opinion. I like to try and see things from others perspective because it helps me widen my perspective. I am not upset now, nor have I been during this whole back and forth. You however seem to be taking it personally.

As far as Krazy and I being juvenile because we asked you to to give us a straight answer to the Question. "What are your like and dislikes of McCain"? As juvenile as you deem it to be. You still have not answered said question. Instead of you cutting and pasting said things, you cut and pasted more cons of Obama. So you see we are not far off when we say you are avoiding the question because you still have not answered it.

Originally Posted by ForeverHers
Make no mistake about it, DIG, I do not consider John McCain to be a "staunch conservative" and there ARE things that I do NOT agree with in "John McCain.

Again I ask what are the things you agree and disagree with McCain on? I am not asking to try and get you to change your vote. I am asking because I am hoping you can sway mine.

I would like to know your views on the Keating five. As well as McCain's affairs, why do you feel he is fit to lead? Why he thought Palin was a good choice for VP? She is as green if not greener than Obama. Out of McCain's mouth he himself said that he agreed with Bush more than any other senate member. Why he thinks this is a good thing? Why Palin and her husband wants to succeed Alaska for the union? If she gets in the office is that one of her agendas? How do you know if McCain's rage issues won't cause him to be such a Maverick that he gets us into more than we can chew. Why if he is such a proud POW is record of that time sealed. Why is his medical record sealed. If God forbid anything should happen to McCain what is Palin going to if she has to become head of state? This is just some of my many questions. When you answer these I will be back with more. I have things to do IRL. So until then, I hope these specifics are enough to get you off in the right direction.


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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 10,044
Quote
Again I ask what are the things you agree and disagree with McCain on? I am not asking to try and get you to change your vote. I am asking because I am hoping you can sway mine.

yeah, okay.

Games people play.


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