Hello all.

First off, I appreciate this website very much. Dr. Harleys words are a great encouragement. I am currently reading His Needs/Her Needs, but have yet to read "Surviving an Affair". That's the book I need now.

My wife of 8 years admitted 2 weeks ago to having at least 2 affairs within the last 2 years. The first was a one-night stand, the second was with a guy she's only known for a month, which is the one that I suspected and she admitted to. I don't know when in their relationship they got intimate, but I imagine is was the night they met. She has also put her name out in the wide world of dating websites and has found at least one more guy she talks to there.

I'll be the first (ok, maybe second) to admit that I have not maintained a affair-proof environment in our marriage. I have not met her needs (obviously) and am even now still having a hard time learning what they are.

Just today, I've been learning from this site that I need to involve our mutual friends and family when appropriate. She has already admitted the affair to both me and my father, but no one else really knows about it. We don't have a lot of close friends, especially since we recently moved 1100 miles away from the place we lived for 7 years. She also has a very weak relationship with her family. Estranged mother, no father to speak of, and the only close relative was her grandfather who passed away 3 years ago. So I'm making my list of people to inform. It includes our close friends, my family members who may have an impact, our pastor, and possibly one uncle of hers. I've talked to one mutual friend so far and am waiting to see her reaction to that before I contact her relatives.

It makes a lot of sense that I've been protecting her affairs by not "bringing it to the light of day".

It also makes a lot of sense that I not talk to her about our relationship for now. At this point, my heart has been hurting so bad that I don't think it can stand much more. If I back off from those subjects that we have not been able to have constructive conversation, I hope it will make me far more stable and calm in the conversations we do have.

My focus now is to be as pleasant and supporting as possible. Please Pray!

I've never been real strong in the devotional department, but God has been putting things and people in place to help me with that. Within the last week, he's already given me 2 prayer partners to help me. And I've never prayed by myself so many times in one day. I can see God's hand in things like never before.

So that's where I stand now. I know it's a long road ahead, but the words on this site have been very encouraging.

Thanks for reading.

Sorry you are going through this. Just wanted to say that before you are tempted to beat yourself up for "not meeting her needs", ask yourself how forthcoming she was in expressingthem and whether they are realistic. Some WS's have an incredibly unrealistic idea of how much a BS can do to meet their needs. Some are bottomless pits of need that can never be filled by anyone.
Also, some WS seem to think that their spouse was supposed to be clairvoyant regarding meeting their needs. Take a look at her ability to meet your needs, as well. Chances are she was not doing the best job there, either. But, you did not cheat,did you?

No, I have not cheated on her.

Yes, we do have major communication issues. She say's she's told me what she needs, and to some extent she has, but in very broad terms, like "I need support." Ok...how, exactly?

In the near future, I hope we can become close and comfortable enough to go through the emotional needs worksheet. At the moment, she's not responding to my requests for help with that.

I believe she wants me to be far more assertive in our relationship. I'll admit I'm not a very assertive person. For example, I recently took over our finances again. I don't really remember the circumstances in which she took the point on them before. She's mentioned the fact she doesn't want to do them anymore, but she was unwilling to sit down with me and work on passing them off to me. This time around, I just had to dig in myself, figure out the bill schedule, and start intercepting the mail to get the bills. It wasn't hard, but I had to take it away from her even when she didn't want to do it anymore.

Like I said, we have communication issues. She expresses a desire to "protect" me, like I can't handle the bills. I don't really understand that, but she has always had to take care of herself, even as a little kid.

But I believe if we can reconcile our marriage, and I can maintain the support I'm getting now, we can approach those subjects as a couple and resolve them too.

Thanks.

Well, good luck. She sounds like she is a poor communicator, as well as untrustworthy. These qualities were there long before you arrived on the scene.
Does she acknowledge these deficiencies and is she getting therapy to address her brokeness. She is pretty messed up to have gone this route.

May want to expand on some details above or scope out her behaviour and past more through additional snooping.

Are the OM married? Exposure targets are OMW.
Co-worker ? She will need to find a new job.
Has she sent a NC letter to OM ? Any remorse?

How did she meet these OM? Does she normally exhibit independent behavior? Since you all have 3 young kids - where is there free time to have an A?

In other words - Need to scope this out more - were these OM from a dating website?

Just to remind you - you may be responsible for 50% of the issues in the marriage but she owns 100% of the A.

Pretty sad to see a young mother of 3 young ones giving herself like a street walker.

So where is your wife as far as recovery? And whats the status of the current OM?

The guy she met was not within any work/school/church circle. One Friday night, at least 5 weeks ago, she went to a country music bar with her co-workers after work. She really doesn't drink, but she enjoyed the music and atmosphere, so she planned to meet her friend there the next week. It was a very busy night and she tells me her and her friend got separated somehow. Maybe her friend left, I don't know. Anyway, I believe that's the night she found the OM, 2 weeks before I found out. During those 2 weeks, she hid the affair under the pretense of studying with her classmates.

No, the OM is not married. I know you guys may think this sounds naive, but I believe her when she says she has not seen him again. Unless her whole school and work schedule has been a hoax for 4 months, for the last 2-1/2 weeks, she has come home right after work and has had the kids all the other time. She has also not left to "study". I've asked our 6 & 4 year old if Mommy has had any friends over and they say no.

Yes, my wife has some pretty destructive behavior patterns. I'm not blind to that anymore.

To be honest, reading some of these threads, there seems to be a huge focus on snooping and it's a little disconcerting. My wife is not a good liar. I'm sure she's hiding some things, but she answered me up front when I asked about the affair. She also admitted the affair to my father. Granted, she down-plays her relationship with online guys, which I do have a problem with. She is also very much in love with our kids and knows that if she messes around with our money, there will be some reckoning. (I've set things up so she doesn't have access to all our money anyway...)

I believe God can heal all things. Keeping my family together, which includes her, is the most important thing to me at this moment. This may not happen, but I believe if she can get comfortable enough with me and trust me again, we can approach the communication and behavior issues as a couple. She's told me that she knows how destructive it is. She may know, but at this point, she does not have the support from me or friends to take care of it. THIS DOES NOT MEAN I WILL PUT UP WITH AN AFFAIR. I sent her back downstairs after I found out she'd replied back to the OM, after he contacted her again.

I've begun implementing the exposure phase. I have to be very careful about who I talk to though. Most of the people in her family either wouldn't care, or would encourage her to "do whatever makes you feel good." (Yes, they're that messed up...)

We do have a mutual lady friend that is flying out next week, just to be with my wife. I'm not sure if that will be the turning point, but the accountability should help.

Thank you.

EDIT: And I really don't appreciate the allusion that my wife is a "street walker". That's not supportive, even a little.

WK5:

You posted this PS:


Well, at least a "street walker" gets paid for services.....

So that was sort of a slam on "street walkers".

And to be blunt, I was the guy who had the A in my marriage.

So, why did I post to you then?

Because you should be ANGRY.

YOU SHOULD be doing EVERYTHING to get this thing right.

Your disappointed that someone called your WW a "street walker", but that anger should be directed at the sitch that your WW put you in.

Now, you are at MB and realize all the things that have been wrong in your M. His Needs/Her Needs can do that. Surviving An Affair WILL make a huge difference for you.

Your WW on one night out, had a ONS with one guy, and a couple of weeks later ended up with an "exclusive" OM and posted on the internet looking for other hook-ups.

I mean, that is not an abberation. That's a lifestyle. And if your WW isn't going to really change, then you are in for a LONG hard road.

First, IF you realy think that she is remorseful, and will not be continuing these activities, then you can apply the principles of HN/HN and SAA to start the recovery of your M.

Second, you can enroll in the MB weekend. It's in Minnesota in January, (BRRRR!) but it is WELL worth the investment. If not, the phone counceling with the Harleys can do you and your M a world of good.

My A, with one OW, lasted 4.5 years. But two days after my BS found this SITE, D-day occurred and we went on to recover our M. It is better than it ever was before my A. So, there is hope here.

And that is why I really posted.

To give you hope.

LG

You need to get your WW new phone numbers, email, and eliminate any means used by her and OM to contact.

Thank you LG.

I wasn't angry about the reference, I just don't see the point. I understand she has issues and with the proper support, we can both overcome them. I've been trying to fix our problems (and hers) by myself. I just don't have the fortitude, skills or knowledge to do that yet. And I don't think I will ever have enough skills to help her on everything. She needs help that I can't give her. She had a bad experience with counselors when she was a kid. She is not seeking help right now. I don't really know how to approach that yet. If I bring it up in a one-on-one conversation, I'm sure she'll shoot it down.

I appreciate the encouragement.

I'd love to do the phone counseling, if only it wasn't so expensive.

I'm praying my heart out that she realizes how she's destroying our family and setting up our kids for the same failures in the future.

Our good mutual friend is coming next week. We'll confront her about the extent of her issues and see how it goes. If you're praying for us, a specific thing to pray for is for her to get professional mental help. It's even free through an employee assistance program, so she can't argue that it's too expensive!

You cannot fix her problems. Don't think you can. Don't try.




People that don't want to change... don't change. People that won't seek help, won't get help. Your WW needs to want to change before she will change and there is absolutely nothing you can do to convince her to do so. My STBXWW also refused to see a counselor at first because 'I had a bad experience as a child.'

WillysK5,

Listen very carefully to what BHHFGuy said. You cannot fix your W, this is something she has to do.

I would say she has no boundaries with respect to marriage and fidelity. That really has to change and what she has to do is come with a plan to first define her boundaries and then protect them. I would certainly start with no more "girls nights out". That is very detrimental to the marriage and certainly proven to be the case in your marriage.

Her plan should also include protecting you and the kids, and that means no more singles sites on the web, no more "friends" on the web.

As for exposure, it is used to end the affair. If her affairs are ended then exposure is not really needed. However, if she has no boundaries and she needs help deciding on them and enforcing them, then some people do need to know in order to hold her accountable. Clergy is a good start, immediate family often is as well. Her work??? That is not so clear especially if OM is not working with her. If he is, then she must leave her work.

You can decide to try and save this marriage, but eventually she must decide that marriage and the vows that go with it, are important enough to her for her to protect them.

She does need counseling and I would think this should be a non-negotiable aspect of your recovery. However, be aware that most counselors are Pro-marriage. Most just focus on making their patient happy. Find a good pro-marriage counselor.

God Bless,

JL

Thank you all for your advice. I've been reading your threads B.

Yes, the affair has been shown the light of day. While she may be keeping in contact with the OM, I don't think they've seen each other. Actually, from things she's mentioned, they may very well not be even talking. We don't talk directly about him, but I know the guy is a super loser and can't really hide it. He fed her a line about being a 20 something, remodel contracting millionaire and she took it hook, line & sinker. Yes, alcohol was involved...

It seems moving out has been on her mind a lot lately. She brought it up at lunch today. I can honestly say I kept my cool. I really didn't say much about it except to say that I didn't want her to move or get a divorce.

She goes on about how nothing in that house is hers. That even though she put me through school, it doesn't seem to matter. I didn't want to condone the idea of either of us moving so I just kept my mouth shut.

Separating feelings from what I know to be truth is difficult. As messed up as she may be, I know I still love her. Love is a choice, an action, a way of life that I want to live.

I'm not so naive to think that I couldn't be happily married (even more happily...) to someone else, I just believe that the vows we said to each other are too important to throw away without trying. She has some really great qualities, but since she's invited selfishness into her heart, some of them have been squashed.

It has surprised me how much I look for hope from her, yet have it just totally smashed...on a regular basis. I know I shouldn't have any expectations (i.e. - hope), but I'm still working on trying to get those eliminated.

I carry a sheet of paper in my pocket with things to do and not to do that I read more than a few times a day. If you're having trouble keeping your thoughts in line, that's something I would highly recommend.

I'm also doing the Love Dare. I haven't seen Fireproof, but I'm reading the book. That's helping too. Helping to give practical tips on how to meet EN's.

Thanks again, hope my experience helps someone else.

A specific need for advice:

I've confronted her about the affair, she's admitted it, some of our close friends and members of my family know about it.

But she's told a couple of cousins of mine that "we've been having problems." She hasn't told them about the affair.

Do you think I should tell those cousins? I think I should, just to give her fantasy world a good shake. What do you think?

Another question:

I'm the BH, she's the WW, we have 3 young children.

Can she legally force me to move out?

There's a whole bunch of logistical junk to deal with, but at this point, with her schedule and income, her hands are tied as to whether or not she can move out.

I don't have enough money to move out either.

If she moves out and due to her current work schedule, I would have the opportunity to continue with plan A. She works evenings, so I get the kids dinner, to bed, and up and ready in the morning.

I'm just trying to imagine how I would shift from Plan A to B while in that scenario.

The other scenario is that she gets a day schedule and I'm no longer required to watch the kids in the evenings. This is something she's trying to get.

I'm into my 2nd month of Plan A.

Answer to your question about her forcing you to move out.

My exwife dropped me off on the side of the road crippled, many miles form home in the dead of winter. When I finally got back home that evening, the locks were changed and the sherrif was waiting. All I got was my truck and my pet c o c k a t o o.

Does that answer your question?

Willys,

I'm guessing that if she was willing to have others know, but NOT those cousins, there is a reason she doesn't want them to know. Maybe worried about her "image" with them.

So, of course, they should be told. She'll be mad, but waywards always are when their dirt is exposed. That's the least of your problems. If you ultimately get on the right path, she'll get over it. Consequences. HER consequences. And you're right. It WILL give her fantasy world a "good shake." When she rails at you about it, just answer: "I only told the truth, and I'll do anything to put our marriage back together."

Especially important to expose if she's still in touch with ANY OM. If there's anything going on right now, it needs to be discovered (by YOU) and exposed. The way she's behaving, it sounds like she's not ready to give up her "lifestyle."

What have you got for current info on her activities? You MUST find out for sure what she's doing at this point.

Don't love bust, but investigate. Protect your heart. There may be more you don't know yet.

Right Here Waiting

Where ever WW tells lies. Follow up with the truth.

Well, of course, she doesn't want anyone to know. She's pissed I've told the people I have.

I do know some of what she's doing. If someone were to ask for proof of her destructive behavior, I could readily supply it. I could be wrong, but I don't think she's been in a PA since D-Day. I know for a fact she's in EA's with guys from dating websites. It's like one-night-stands, without the 'stand'...?

I have a relatively innocent message out to one of them, the one she's closest to now, a female. Asking what she thinks WW's needs might be. I'll wait to see if I get a response back from her.

The other one (a male), has pretty much cut contact with her, and vice versa. He's a single successful guy who probably just doesn't want to have anything to do with this. Can't blame him a bit...

A praise to report: She had been planning on changing to day hours at work (she currently works evenings), but the cheap day care she had lined up backed out. I know this sounds strange as a praise, but this is one of those things that could have further removed any potential time with my kids. Right now, I get to feed them dinner, play with them all evening, get them to bed and get them up and ready in the morning. While this time spent apart from my WW has certainly contributed to our current problems, I really don't see us spending that time together right now, if she were to change hours. She would see that as an opportunity to leave.

About the kicking out thing, I don't think she can legally make me homeless. I highly doubt she'll dump me off in the middle of nowhere, but I was wondering if she were to ask a judge to move me out, if she would have ground to stand on.

I wouldn't think so, unless she can show you were a threat. If anything, I would think a court/judge would tell you to go to mediation before you have to move.

Today's task. Make a NEW list of people to expose. All family, close friends, those cousins for sure, and his family. Get all their numbers written down on a piece of paper and just sit down at the phone and call them, one after the other until you've reached all of them (or left a message). You'll never get anywhere without doing that.

And the "carrot" part of plan A too. Treat her as well as you did when you first married. Find something to admire her about (make it plausable).

NO love busters. No relationship talk right now.

Just be NICE.

Thanks cat.

I posted something about this in someone else's thread, but yeah, I've come to the conclusion that my exposure phase is not over.

It's really hard for me to imagine her moving out, but that may very well be necessary. She's threatened it for a while, but just doesn't have the means...I think. I don't know how much savings she has.

Because I don't want her to move out, it's hard for me to do things that I know will make her angry and "push her away" (her words). And yes, I know she's in a fog and will be upset about something anyway.

I will make that list, but I'm curious about how successful, or potentially harmful, exposure is to friends of hers. They're only acquaintances to me. I've left her family out of it entirely, and with very good reason...

Thank you all for your support. I appreciate the quick responses.

I've developed a new catch phrase: "If I didn't (or did) do that, I'd be the same guy I was before I knew about the A. I don't want to be that guy." She has nothing to say to that! HA!

Bull hockey! Go ahead and try to give me a reason that justifies them not knowing their daughter is an adulterer. I'm curious to know what it could be.

What it does with friends is that they are her friends! They are the people she has a bond with, who LIKE her. If they are upset with her for doing this, they are going to let her know. At the least, they'll question her about it and she will get uncomfortable knowing they have mixed feelings about cheating. She doesn't want them to stop liking her. If she stops the A now, she can claim temporary insanity and be forgiven. If she goes on with it, they'll wash their hands of her. It doesn't matter if they even know you - they know HER.

THAT is why you expose.

As for moving out, if it's hard on her...good! She needs to understand what her consequences are.

And if you have time, take a look at some of the other threads here. You'll see the vast difference between the guys who up and exposed right away - and got results - and the guys who were too chicken to do it, and suffered more and more while their wives got bolder and bolder, to the point of losing all respect for their husbands. Is that what you want? Or do you want to be a husband who fights for his wife?

ok, Willy, I think you are missing the entire point here. The goal is to save your marriage, not to avoid making your wife mad at all costs. Your marriage can survive some temporary anger over exposure, it cannot survive this affair.

Therefore, your goal is to do everything in your power to RUIN her affair. Affairs thrive on secrecy, so exposure is ruinous. Affairs are enabled by SECRECY. So if you help her keep the secret, you will be enabling the affair.

Yes, exposure is harmful. It is harmful to the AFFAIR. Now, t3ell me WHY you cannot expose to her family?

Exposure to friends is usually not helpful unless you think the friend will talk some sense into her. Exposure should be to parties who will talk some sense in her like family, pastor, employers, etc. If the OM is married, his W would be at the top of that list.

Your inaction and outright ENABLING of this affair is leading your marriage right towards divorce. You have little kids that need to be protected so you don't have the luxury to sit there and twiddle your thumbs. They need you to get up and start doing something to SAVE THEIR FAMILY before this leads to divorce.

And the part about going to bed early so she won't "feel oppressed" when she is sneaking in the back door at 10pm like an alley cat is NONSENSE, SIR! If she is going act like an alley cat in heat, don't help her sneak in the back way unnoticed. Good grief.

She feels GUILTY, not "oppressed." And she is supposed to feel guilty, don't protect her from that!

Is your wife bigger than you? Does she beat you? Is that why you are so terrified of her anger?

Well, it's not entirely bull hockey. Her "sperm donor", as she calls him, is incarcerated. Her mother has never had a successful marriage (counting the 3 I know of). Her older sister went through an abusive marriage, ended up divorcing, and would probably help her fill out the divorce paperwork.

There might be one uncle of hers that would put pressure on her fantasy world.

And you're right, I do need to expose more and quickly, before she gets much more comfortable.

Thanks for the gut check.

No, but thanks for the smack. She's 2 feet shorter than me.

Quit assuming what other people will do. Her family NEEDS to know. If anything, her knowing that they know might be enough to stop the A, even if they don't say anything. You have no idea how much she cares about their respect for her. Tell them. I'd even write to her father. Don't let a female tell you that her father doesn't matter to her. Unless he was abusive to her - and even then sometimes - every female craves the respect of her father. Calling him a sperm donor is her way to protect herself from caring about him.

willy, expose to her mother. Call her mother up and tell her you want to save your marriage and [important!!--------->]ASK FOR HER ADVICE!! If you ask for advice, they are more likely to offer to help. And some will not help, some don't give a CRAP about her and will say something inane like "I just want her to be happy." :RollieEyes: [thank God she is not a serial killer, huh?] But that is ok. the more people that know, the more uncomfortable your W will feel. Exposure ruins the fantasy aspect of affairs.

The uncle would also be a good one to call.

The OM's parents and wife, if any, should be notified. If this is a workplace affair, then you should formally notify the director of HR, a key VP and their supervisors.

IMO, exposure works best if done at once because it has a tsunami effect and prevents the affairs from pre-empting you and spinning the story.

p.s. and I would strongly suggest you have a come-to-Jesus with the OM and let him know she is married with small children and that you will fight for your marriage. Tell him if this doesn't stop, you will file on grounds of adultery and have him hauled into court to give sworn testimony about his affair with your wife. Ask him: what are your intentions with my wife?

Make sure he understands that you will not go down easy.

I'm sorry, I didn't complete the thought. It's hard, but something I'm willing to do. And planning on doing. I had contacted our pastor a few weeks ago, but didn't encourage it to go further. Just now, I sent a message that I would like him to confront her.

Since I don't have phone #'s, just emails, I have messages out to my cousins and her local friends.


Because they will encourage her that what she's doing is right. Read about that in the "For Newly Betrayed Spouses" thread.


She gets off of work at 10. She comes in the front door and makes as much noise as usual. Usually enough to wake me up if I'm already asleep. And as far as I know, she's not in heat. Although we've made jokes that her and our cat have the same cycle.

I think I need to be a bit more clear in my posts. Sorry.

About my situation; even after the exposure I've done, she has not expressed any desire to repair our marriage. I see Plan B in our future.

I dunno, maybe when our pastor confronts her, she'll change her tune a little.

Since I don't want to highjack someone else's thread, I'm replying to this post from Mark1952.

I've been a little vague as to the relationship my WW has with most of her family.

To put it gently: They're royally screwed up!

I may be wrong in this, but part of me just doesn't want to encourage any rekindling of any relationship with her immediate family. They are so far off the map that I can't even come close to predicting what they'll do.

Yes, I understand that it make shake up her fantasy world, but there's also a good chance they'll encourage her and make it stronger.

If it comes down to it, I'll reconsider, but at this point I'm following other lines that should be more effective.

Thanks.

If that were true, your WW would have already told them and lined them up on her side. Since she hasn't told them, she likely thinks they won't. So go ahead and expose.

I delayed for a little while in exposing my FWW's A to her 5 sisters, with whom she is very close. The A fizzled out 2 weeks after exposure to them, even though she screamed and yelled and wouldn't talk to me for 4 days after she learned of the exposure.

Good news!

After a few painful confrontations, my wife has verbalized her willingness to work on R. There is still a few logistical details to take care of, but we've had the chance to spend some time alone together and our conversations seem to be much more fruitful, and most of them aren't about our relationship.

Thanks to all for the advice.