Blackraven, if he is "done with her" then why is she still there? He hasn't asked her to leave. Where has he ever asked her to leave? Oh no, rather he is using her guilt to keep her there taking care of his kids and giving him sex with nothing in return. He talks alot of crap about being "religiously" married even though he divorced her. As hard as I try I can't see the angle you see.

And I am not even going to debate the MikeX thing; that is just too ridiculous for consideration.

That sounds to me like it was an admission of PAST behavior that she has changed. You can't use that against her if she has repented and changed her ways. Heck, I could pull out similar admissions from every wayward on this forum. But what would be the point unless they never repented?

Is there a reason why you are doing this?

That's just hyperbole.


This is 5 years post affair here. And in her guilt, she has allowed her husband to cow her down.

Her husbands post was a play-by-play of how he used disrespect and anger to berate her into submission, and now she has to get away because the forum "almost destroyed their 'marriage.'"


That is not an MB recovery. It's not even recovery.


Instead, it has become a case where to protect himself from the abuse of infidelity, he has become abusive.


I did that, too. That's WHY I came here. Because I couldn't stand what the pain and anger of betrayal led me to become, and I needed a path back.


I took that responsibility.


And you know what's funny?


When I was still having episodes of allowing myself to be angry, Mrs. V and WPG would always post to me with a "there, there..."


Why?


Because their husbands did it, too.


I stopped.


Their husbands have not.

Bingo! Dr Harley calls this "secondary gain;" a way to perpetually punish someone to get what one wants. This woman is YEARS past her affair and has fully repented. That is ABUSE pure and simple. I don't know many people who would tolerate being punished for their crimes years after they repented.

I never said Mr V was done with her. They agreed to continue living in the marital home as a couple despite the divorce. They both talk about being "religiously" married...which I think is silly for both of them.

I simply don't agree that Mr V is an abuser even if he is Mike...which doesn't automatically make everything else he says a lie or exaggeration...even if it is a stupid stunt.

I do believe that Mrs V is repentant. However, I still question her mindset and pattern of behavior. Me bringing up that post was only to show that she was not some mousey, submissive wife like HHH's post made it sound.

Doing what? I don't agree that Mr V's response or acts show him as an abuser. He responded with clear and direct answers and pointed out what he has issue reconciling in his mind yet somehow he ends up being labeled as an abuser.

And I do question the oops of her recent pregnancy among other things.

I didn't see disrespect and anger in his post...or berating.


Agreed


I'm not sure what you mean by this example. Mr V is not doing what broken did IMO.

I would advise you to carefully read his subject-by-subject testimony.


It is largely a documentation of straightening us - and his wife - out.


In fact - the man owes this forum no explanation. As a gesture, it appears shady and manipulatives - as it does when any other spouse in any other section of the forum does something similar.


If the man was serious about recovering his marriage at all, he would be doing it, not wasting time explaining to anonymous strangers on the internet why his wife is all wrong.


That show was not for us. It was a token act with the motive of subjigation.

It was the behavior of an abuser.


"Nothing to see here guys, she's not right in the head. I'll handle it."

I read it three times, HHH and I still disagree with you.

You brought up a description of her behavior that was YEARS AGO. There is no evidence that she is wayward today. The reason her husband is labeled as an abuser is because he is an abuser. He abuses his wife by continually punishing her for her affair.

Dr Harley called him an abuser. And he is a psychologist. You don't help anyone by coming here and defending an abuser. You just embolden him.

The fact that you label his behavior as "clear and direct" and the fact that you believe his lie about his "friend" posting as MikeX tell me that you don't have good instincts about all this. Its obvious to most people, including Dr Harley, that he is an abuser. I think some people have the ability to discern when someone is gaslighting them and others don't.

And that is the problem. You don't have the instincts for this and can't see what others can see.

She can't see it, HHH.

For clarification; the "little wifey" example was in reference to her post immediately following his. It was directly in reference to current behavior.

What I sense, by her intermittent forum appearances/disappearances, is that her MAY-UN sure don't like us much, and she gets herself in trouble airing their laundry here.

First, it was the Mike-X fiasco, and now this.


We may or may not see her for months, a year... and if/when she reappears, the marriage will be in the same state.

He obviously monitors, and if us trouble-makers try to mess with her head again, there will be hell to pay.

Others have said the same as me, yet I have bad instincts. I am not going to argue and am a bit surprised by all this but okey dokey.

I am downright shocked that anyone could honestly not see what is so obvious. Like I said earlier, I think some have a knack for this and others just don't. Keep in mind that even Dr Harley called this man an abuser. A husband who perpetually punishes his wife for years after an affair is an abuser. Period.

Blackraven, it takes 2 years to recover from an affair and they are no closer 5 years later than they were back in 2008. MrsV has been fully willing all this time. So what is your explanation for why they have no marriage? They have nothing other than her being a live in nanny who puts out on demand.

Why no recovery? What is your explanation since she has been willing all along?

This is one of the things I look at here.


So, in the current session of activity, when V was going to write the radio show... I thought "Why?"


Why think why?


Because, as Dr. Harley has stated, and has been repeated on this forum over, and over, and over again; "If the marriage is not better than it ever was, even before the affair, it is best that the spouses move separate/divorce."


This is 5 years later. At this point, it doesn't really matter who is "at fault." The chances of having other than a crippled, broken marriage are immensely slim, even less so than "just" recovering from infidelity.


I won't say "impossible," but it's pretty damn near. The marital situation is less than a renter's agreement, and the marital habits are HORRIBLE. Add to that a manipulative BH who is "satisfied" with his easy out, and not too keen on it being interrupted by meddlers... it's a horrible situation.


BR, I don't mean to be part of a gang-up on you. And it doesn't even really matter to me that others agree with me. If Mel disagreed, I'd being fighting her about it tooth-and-nail and moderated all over the place.


Those two posts just felt wrong in the pit of my gut.


I'm sorry for whatever Mr. V has to deal with as a victim of betrayal... but this ain't the way to deal with it.

*cough* better after 2 years *cough*

I forgot that part.

And this is the bottom line. If there is no marriage after 2 years, it is better to cut it loose and move on. There is nothing here to save. Guilt and blame does not a marriage make.

ok. i know i'm just a newbie here, 14 months on the boards, just under a year in real recovery. and i'm a people pleaser and hate sticking my nose into a place where it may be cut off. but...

i first saw this thread yesterday. i have now read the entire thing, including the mikex thread.

i have seen some things on here that have made my mouth drop open and curled my hair - more than once!

but a 5 year long thread, where the OP hasn't EVER READ lovebusters???? in a M where lovebusting is the most common behaviour? where they counselled with the harleys? where they both have posted as having "read all the books" and being "fully versed in MB principles?" (to say nothing of the contradictory references to both "going to medical school" and "being a SAHM.")

and writes a last-chance desperate-attempt letter to the harleys in a terrible crisis of not just love, or faith, but humanity, yet didn't listen to her own show? despite the fact that it replays for 24 hours? (quick poll: how many posters don't have the mb app on their phones/devices?)

how many people here have been desperate enough to write the radio show, and then didn't wait with bated breath until it finally aired?

BH, can you link it for us? i'd definitely like to hear it, if it exists, which, frankly, (and i'm sorry) i doubt.

i see that BR refers to the 2009 debacle, where apparently SOME of the postings on this thread disappeared into the ether (but not all the posts on this thread prior to the 2009 oopsie...). so i understand that i haven't read any posts that may have discussed implementing MB, or any of the day to day frustrations that come with making a lifestyle change that incorporates MB, etc. but this is the vaguest thread i have ever read. except for the big-ticket items. those were *very* specific.

i am very interested in hearing the show, as i do not recall this letter. i don't listen every day, so that means nothing. did anyone else hear it?