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Originally Posted by StayingStrong32
It's not that I think the forum is to "tough", I just think there's a difference between a support group and a group that laughs at you because they think you're in "denial", redicules you for having any level of trust, attempts to turn you against the marriage you're trying to save, and then insults you if you don't take their advice. Maybe that's the way you long-timers roll. Frankly, I really can't see myself in this forum 5 years down the road ridiculing everyone who is struggling with infidelity, telling them how stupid and gullible they are, and trying to convince them to submit their WS to a polygraph. But, if that's what floats your boat, then so be it. Kindof pathetic if you ask me.

Awww, SS...stick around man...You will eventually see that folks are just trying to look out for you...Most people ARE naive in the early stages - those are just facts...I am a firm believer that you should inspect what you expect...Right now, you can surely see that it would be a fool's mission to place your trust in your wife, right? Look, I'm telling you like it is from the other side of the fence...Trust, but verify...yanno?

And BK? He's not so bad - Mr. W and I know him - he's a good guy, even if he is a Foster's drinkin' Aussie! grin

Settle in, consider all posts - knowing they do have your best interests in mind...really...

Have you thought more about the MB weekend?

Mrs. W


FWW ~ 47 ~ Me
FBH ~ 50 ~ MrWondering
DD ~ 17
Dday ~ 2005 ~ Recovered

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SS,

Something that I hope you will consider...YOU are the least objective poster on this thread...totally understandable...Others are just trying to have your back! wink

Mrs. W


FWW ~ 47 ~ Me
FBH ~ 50 ~ MrWondering
DD ~ 17
Dday ~ 2005 ~ Recovered

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So...you are not going to request that your cheating and lying wife take a polygraph test before you take her back? Do I have that right?

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Originally Posted by StayingStrong32
It's not that I think the forum is to "tough", I just think there's a difference between a support group and a group that laughs at you because they think you're in "denial", redicules you for having any level of trust, attempts to turn you against the marriage you're trying to save, and then insults you if you don't take their advice. Maybe that's the way you long-timers roll. Frankly, I really can't see myself in this forum 5 years down the road ridiculing everyone who is struggling with infidelity, telling them how stupid and gullible they are, and trying to convince them to submit their WS to a polygraph. But, if that's what floats your boat, then so be it. Kindof pathetic if you ask me.

Kill the messenger, not the message. Not everyone has...um, shall we say 'tact'? Read PAST the emotion of the posts and absorb the message. Everyone here is in various stages of dealing with a crushing blow. We have different ways of expressing that. Keep reading.
hug ss


D-Day 2-10-2009
Fully Recovered and Better Than Ever!
Thank you Marriage Builders!

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I don't see how you could have any level of trust whatsoever at this point. Your wife is a serial cheater who was busted and did not confess. You know of two affairs, which means , in many cases, there were more that you do not know of.
What, exactly, is the peoblem with a polygraph? She will not object if she is remorseful and truthful. What is the big deal about verifying the statements of a known liar?

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Originally Posted by maritalbliss
Not everyone has...um, shall we say 'tact'?

Yeah I forgot the sugar coating and don't do sunshine enemas. This guy needs to snap out of it quick.

Last edited by bigkahuna; 01/14/10 06:39 PM. Reason: clarity

Me: 56 (FBS) Wife: 55 (FWW)
D-Day August 2005
Married 11/1982 3 Sons 27,25,23
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Replies to this guy have been polite. He has a thin skin when he does not hear what he wants. Strangely, he is not thin skinned as regards his wife's behavior toward him , their kids , and their marriage. He has a lot of tolerance for abuse and gaslighting. Lots of fear, I expect, which is understandable.

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Originally Posted by StayingStrong32
It's not that I think the forum is to "tough", I just think there's a difference between a support group and a group that laughs at you because they think you're in "denial", redicules you for having any level of trust, attempts to turn you against the marriage you're trying to save, and then insults you if you don't take their advice. Maybe that's the way you long-timers roll. Frankly, I really can't see myself in this forum 5 years down the road ridiculing everyone who is struggling with infidelity, telling them how stupid and gullible they are, and trying to convince them to submit their WS to a polygraph. But, if that's what floats your boat, then so be it. Kindof pathetic if you ask me.
SS, here's the deal. The people who post to you have seen a LOT - A LOT - of people just like you come here, frustrated, scared, wanting to give in or to beg just to keep the wayward home or from straying. But the people who post to you KNOW what works and what doesn't. It really IS like a science. This works; that doesn't.

So...we give you the drill. Tell you what works. Commiserate at first and hope you'll man up and fight to save your marriage, despite your fears. But so very often, the BS is TOO SCARED to fight. The WS's ANGER and threats drive everything.

When that happens, the BS has lost control. And will NEVER get the marriage back without fighting the affair. So we gripe. Push. Even intimidate sometimes.

Because we know.

We've seen it all.

And they all act the same. It's called a script for a reason. ALL waywards spout the same crap - no matter how nice they were before they were overtaken by the alien addiction.

Is this a guarantee to get her back? Of course not. But it is THE BEST HOPE YOU HAVE for saving your marriage. And if posters here get under your skin, it's a GOOD BET that there is a REASON why they're getting to you. Best to consider that, and ask yourself what it is about that particular post or poster that bothers you?

Surely it isn't just you're being offended. If that's the truth, well, is that what you do in real life? Leave people who offend you? Leave uncomfortable situations? Or learn from them and improve yourself?

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Seeing as I'm already unpopular with you, I'm going to throw this in as well. There are good reasons for you to get a paternity test. (for both your children)


Me: 56 (FBS) Wife: 55 (FWW)
D-Day August 2005
Married 11/1982 3 Sons 27,25,23
Empty Nesters.
Fully Recovered.
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BK, your insecurities show through in every post. This last one is just laughable. We tried very hard to have both kids, and if you ever had the chance to see pictures you would KNOW they were mine.

So, please, you obviously have been so screwed up by your past, you are really no help. You cannot make such broad, general assumptions about people.


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LOL


Me: 56 (FBS) Wife: 55 (FWW)
D-Day August 2005
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Originally Posted by StayingStrong32
BK, I appreciate all the time you put into responding. I'll be really frank with you. . . .your advice doesn't help. You assume I'm in Denial because YOU were in denial so long. You assume my wife is lying still because YOUR wife lied to you for 3 years. You assume a lot of things, which just aren't true. My wife has been truthful about everything I've asked her about, and I've confirmed everything independantly of her statements. Where she was dishonest was by not telling me stuff when I didn't ask. And I never knew I had to ask in the past. Now I do. So, the "have her take a polygraph" comments are just annoying.

This forum has provided me with some great (and some not so great) guidance. As it now seems that the comments are less supportive and more projections of your own issues, I don't see a need to use this as a source for advice any longer. I will continue to use the MB resources, and I thank every user who has provided emotional support and constructive criticism. God willing, I will never need to post here again.

You have to remember that these people have been in your shoes before. Some of the things they say will hurt you but you have to remember that they have been there and are trying to help you.

I also had a WW and she came clean to me many times and I thought that was it. Then I would uncover more and see things were still going on. These people told me that. I got upset by the posts but didn't post back about it. I just kept telling my story and thought my wife wasn't like theirs.

But in the end all these affairs are the same. The waywards say the same exact things to the BS.

I went through hell for almost 2 years because I slowly took their advice. It wasn't until I said F it and took their advice that my M changed.

Please listen to these people who are trying to help you. Trust me not listening to them will only drag this nightmare out longer.


Me 36
FWW 34
Married 9 years
2 Children 8 and 4 years

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BS32,
I've replied to you once on this thread but feel compeled to do so again.

You totally, out of hand, reject the advise that BK has given to you, in an effort to not believe the truth of your broken M.

Did you catch that= BROKEN MARRIAGE!!!

You allow yourself to be completely gaslighted by your wonderful wife who has had two affairs in the very first five years of your M. The so called "honeymoon" period when such a thing should actually be imposible.

I warned you about the elephant that would reside in your living room and you dismissed that as not possible.

Your WW owes you and your family a GREAT compensation for the damage and harm she has done to you and your family. That's if she is truly repentant and has changed her heart.

Ignore experienced posters if you like, it's your life and your M. Don't expect however, the resultant years will be good. These 2 infidelities will eat at your soul till they drive you crazy. They could actually lead you to a place that you never envisioned.

Your WW begs for forgiveness, but doesn't realize that it will not happen unless and until she has determined what is wrong with her, and how to correct it. For you to accept any less is to sell yourself and your family short of what it deserves.

BK is not one who berates for the sake of insults, but rather, instructs from his experience. You can take what he or I say and dismiss it in an instant. Or you could accept some wise counsel from those who have been forced to walk in your shoes long before you ever noticed the neon sign that flashes MB.com.

Your choice, of course, but there are any number of caring folks on this forum who will not blow smoke up your posterior.

Just saying, yanno.

All Blessings,
Jerry


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I have seen my own recovery, and that of many other BS follow predictable steps. The steps or stages may be similar but the timelines are very different. Also, once the full set has been run through, stages can be selected in seemigly random fashion.


1.- Devastation.
Fear, shock, confusion, existential pain. Loss of hopes, dreams and every assumption about God and man.
D-day and just afterwards. Don't want to go there again, ever.

2.- Appeasement.
OK, I've been dealt a cr@p hand, but if she will at least stay home SOME of mt life support systems may at least function a bit.

3.- Indignation.
F'k that ! I'm stronger now and i WILL NOT suck up any more pain than I have to. Still scared, but not settling for crumbs.
This is where MB gets SERIOUSLY assimilated and applied. Turns hatred on OM as being to blame for affair.

4.- Gratitude.
The affair is ended, WS sends NC letter, exposure scares OM into darkness. THANK YOU GOD ! LA LA LA LA LA ! Still suspects FWS motivations for coming home, i.e comfort not love.

5.-"Advising others how to be wonderfully recovered like I am"

We have like SF 3 times a day, and a restored marriage is a decent possibility again and I am so PATHETICALLY grateful to not be in the deepest cr@p imaginable I am hyper-happy. Yessiree, no recovery problems for me !This is it for ever and it only took us x months ! Secretly suspects FWS motivations for coming home, i.e comfort not love.

6.-"Ah, theres an elephant in the sitting room"

So day to day life has been OK for a while now. SF, even maybe some ILYs. Kids are happy. Life is ACTUALLY not happier than for years but it is so much better than during the dark times of the affair and withdrawal that it seems that way. But you start to notice the 'elephant' in the sitting room : the enormous baggage of the affair that the BS has been previously too 'fight or flight' or psychotically happy to address. Suspects FWS motivations for coming home, i.e comfort not love.

7.- "I am angry and I don't need you so why am I here ?"

BS has operated in a loveless and hurt world for so long is now amost completely self sufficient. Is no longer even slightly desperate. Does not NEED FWS as whole life support mechanism has HAD to regrow without her while she betrayed and sulked over the months. Feels indignation at both the insult of the affair AND the insult of FWS not contributing HARD to recovery. Feels like an ATM machine and bodyguard and hugely taken for granted. KNOWS FWS still loves OP.

8. - What about MY needs ?

BS has developed a sense of self worth independent of what others think. Has had to. Thinks he deserves MUCH more affection, admiration respect, gratitude. " I didn't put this amount of effort in just to be nagged at all the time, and never be praised. I deserve MORE than that!." The kids happiness at a stable family quells thoughts of rebellion. realises OP was just an amoral scumbag who made the most of an opportunity FWS offered , 100% of the blame for the A is FWS. This hits hard.

9. - Resignation

The kids are happy, I am not unhappy, FWS is happy, this is just my lot in life. Better get on with it.

10.- make or break drive to get a M the BS deserves.

An effort from BS to challenge the peaceful but unsatisfying status quo in an attempt to get BS needs met.

Where do you reckon you are S ?


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Originally Posted by maritalbliss
Originally Posted by StayingStrong32
It's not that I think the forum is to "tough", I just think there's a difference between a support group and a group that laughs at you because they think you're in "denial", redicules you for having any level of trust, attempts to turn you against the marriage you're trying to save, and then insults you if you don't take their advice. Maybe that's the way you long-timers roll. Frankly, I really can't see myself in this forum 5 years down the road ridiculing everyone who is struggling with infidelity, telling them how stupid and gullible they are, and trying to convince them to submit their WS to a polygraph. But, if that's what floats your boat, then so be it. Kindof pathetic if you ask me.

Kill the messenger, not the message. Not everyone has...um, shall we say 'tact'? Read PAST the emotion of the posts and absorb the message. Everyone here is in various stages of dealing with a crushing blow. We have different ways of expressing that. Keep reading.
hug ss

Oy vey. I just re-read my response. Hang on a sec - I'll take care of this myself :::maritalbliss twoxfour :::

Okay. What I should have said better is this:

You are in a new land. It's called Affair Land. In Affair Land the terrain is completely different than any terrain you have ever navigated. And it's going to require you to look at things in very different ways. You've got to keep your mind open and available to a new way of looking at your world. The people on here have been in Affair Land for awhile - some for many years, others for many months. You will do well to listen as we help you navigate this new place. And that's what we're trying to do - HELP you. Sometimes a new arrival doesn't want to hear unpleasant things - hey, you're hurting, we know that. We've got that - we're right there with you. Keep reading. You'll get to know us, know the way we write, and you'll learn a lot. Stay here.


D-Day 2-10-2009
Fully Recovered and Better Than Ever!
Thank you Marriage Builders!

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In your case a DNA test is mandatory. You would not be the first BH not to realise they were not the dad.

You now how many WW's don't use protection with the OM?

From reading here it seems most WW's don't use protection.

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Test your kids DNA.

There are several private and discrete labs that can be contacted online. It's easy to do, non invasive (Just swab there cheek with the supplied swab and put it in the supplied container) and relatively cheap.

Last edited by Gack1; 01/15/10 10:27 AM.

Me 34
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SS32,

In many ways, where you are right now, I have been before.

I knew when I first signed into this website exactly one year ago today that my situation was like no other. A year later, 14 months after D-Day, I now know that what I went through and am going through now is just a new verse in a very old and sad song.

There really is Nothing New Under The Sun. In fact, this is the oldest story in the human saga. Check the Bible -- two chapters for setup and, as Emeril Lagasse says, BAM!

Some people (maybe most if the statistics are accurate) just have to take a bite of the Apple -- it seems to be in our very nature. And those that do find out that the Apple is a Sour Apple, sweet at first but bitter to the taste once the mind comprehends the foul nature of the fruit and the fog clears.

I know this from sad experience myself. Two decades ago, I took a nip from the Damned Thing. It was an ONS and the shame from what I did in that drunken idiocy will haunt me the rest of my life. I hid what I did in abject shame until I got hit over the head with a marital 2x4.

My wife went further and took a solid chomp, an EA/PA that lasted 22 months/18 months. Our D-day was like yours. She confessed that she was having an A.

The fact that she confessed made a great deal of difference. Despite her wails of "I don't KNOW what I want!" I assumed that it was over and it would be clear sailing as we tried to repair the damage.

{Snort} Yeah. Right.

I had hip replacement surgery two weeks to the day of D-Day. We left the next day, went out of town to "reconnect" and had some serious Hysterical Bonding despite my infirmities. Come to find out, she was still texting the POS I refer to as Pond Scum the entire time.

She had promised no contact. And she continued to promise it each of the eight times she broke NC. The ninth time finally took. What made it stick was my exposure to Mrs. Pond Scum.

Pond Scum entered my FWW's life as a co-worker. He told everyone there that he was divorced. In fact, he was living with a girlfriend at the time, so his tale went unchallenged.

I researched and found out that he'd never been divorced. In fact, he moved back in with his undeclared wife about seven months earlier. When my FWW found out that he really was married, she turned white as a sheet and WANTED me to expose.

I found out that Pond Scum had been gaslighting his wife for months, and that she bought it. She detailed some of their conversations, and when my FWW heard about it, NC was established, and WD ended almost immediately.

Given that, you'd figure it was full speed ahead, right?

{Snort} Yeah. Right.

She continued to spin what had happened. The story kept changing, over and over again. It wasn't until six months ago that she finally vomited out the entire truth. The details had changed just enough each time to keep me on the edge, so R really dates from that final data dump.

So, here's something to remember: WAYWARDS LIE. How can you tell? Their lips are moving. Mine kept lying to me even though she knew she wanted to work things out.

You can't move forward until you KNOW you have the truth. You just can't. Say what you want, you're still going to wonder about things until you KNOW what really happened. It will eat you up.

-- Duty calls. Part 2 to follow soon. --


BH 52
FWW 50
S26 S24
EA 3/07-1/09
PA 5/07-10/08
NC finally established after eight false starts: 1/23/09
Final Version of Events 6/09
In a solid Recovery, and lucky beyond belief.
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Originally Posted by StayingStrong32
BK, your insecurities show through in every post. This last one is just laughable. We tried very hard to have both kids, and if you ever had the chance to see pictures you would KNOW they were mine.

So, please, you obviously have been so screwed up by your past, you are really no help. You cannot make such broad, general assumptions about people.

Yeah, BK. It's not like she had sex with....er, oh , wait. Nevermind.

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-- Part 2 --

When my then-WW kept changing her story, after each iteration, I posted how I thought I finally had the whole story. In fact, I thought I had verified NC the week before I exposed. Each time, I got a flurry of posts telling me that I was wrong, wrong, wrong. And I got angry with them, insisting I was right. Sucked when I wasn't -- nobody likes an "I told you so."

Virtually everyone that posts on this board has either been in our shoes as a BS, or has been on the other side as a WS. Each person posting carries with them the attitudes and experiences from their trials and tribulations.

Some BS's have recovered marriages. Others, not so much. Their ordeals have marked them for life. Some remain optimistic and positive. For others, including one that had their WW try to have a hit put on them, their anger is still understandably palpable. But even those that could be accused of being bitter understand this whole process and can spot b.s. a mile away. Experience is a great teacher -- a painful one perhaps, but the most effective instructor of all.

Some of the posters are, shall we say, less than tactful. I certainly said that to a few, including bigkahuna, who suggested I jump into this discussion. Your nerves are on edge, everything is raw, you feel like you have a sucking chest wound or maybe like you've even been eviscerated and your guts are on the floor. What seem like flip replies can flip you out. I get that. (In fact, you could go back on my original two threads and see me reacting just like you did to the same guy!)

The only good thing is that they cut through the noise and get your attention. Others usually come along and say the same things in a more diplomatic way, and after you've calmed down from the provocateurs and their pummeling, at that point you're more prepared to hear what's said by others. And I will suggest you go back and re-read your thread from the beginning, and do it analytically and without emotion. You'll be amazed.

My take? Do a polygraph at a bare minimum. The chances you've been given the whole story is just about nil. And yes, considering the timing of the A's, a DNA test isn't out of order either.

My FWW was a one-time violator, and she stubbornly refused to give me the whole story until she was forced to. When she did, she said it was that it took her that long to admit to herself what she did, much less admit it to me.

You do have to make yourself a safe haven for a full confession. You can't go ballistic when she starts getting to the nitty gritty. You can't launch, as much as you'd like. If you do, she'll shut down and you may never get the whole story. She'll be too scared.

She knows there will be consequences. She just has to know that any consequences will "fit the crime." Or maybe, she's afraid that they WILL fit the crime.

My FWW said that she fully expected me to walk when I heard the full story. (I literally couldn't do that on D-Day, not after hip replacement surgery. Sometimes I wonder if she told me right then just because of that.) I didn't. We're working it out.

There IS hope. But you have to get the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, or even God won't be able to help you in the long run.

Just stay cool, and stay on these boards. The collective wisdom of the posters here is absolutely amazing.

And every new thread I read now, after a year of posting, confirms that virtually every A is basically the same. It's depressing in that people just don't learn. It's uplifting in that there really IS a way out of this mess, if you do it the right way.


BH 52
FWW 50
S26 S24
EA 3/07-1/09
PA 5/07-10/08
NC finally established after eight false starts: 1/23/09
Final Version of Events 6/09
In a solid Recovery, and lucky beyond belief.
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