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I'm sorry if I should be able to find this on another post. I know there's no ONE answer to this question, but how many infidelities can one marriage survive? At what point to you just assume that the wayward spouse is a philanderer and will not stop?
Me: 37 YO married 14 yrs to HS sweetheart who is 38. He had an EA 7 years ago with a coworker for about 3 months; a one night sexual thing with a stranger 5 yrs ago; now had admitted that 3 mos ago agreed to give his cell # to an acquaintance of a coworker that found him attractive. Texted with this person a lot but so far hasn't admitted meeting with her which I don't really believe.
I know we've not met each other's needs throughout this, mainly SF for him. I don't even know whether to consider staying now because he seems to want to take his needs to other people outside our marriage.
Any thoughts on whether there is ever hope for situations like this would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
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Does your H recognize that there is a problem in the M or he just thinks that what he �s doing is normal. Have you talked to him about his behaviour and if so...what does he say?
blessing
atena
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Problem you are not meeting each others needs.
Solution counsel with the Harley's or with ones that use MB type principles.
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Yes he recognizes a problem and knows its unacceptable behavior. We both recognize what needs we don't meet for each other. He didn't do this type of behavior as a younger person so I don't think it's just "who he is". I guess the question is do couples ever go through this many cases of betrayl and actually trust again. Or at some point is it just too many times/too little to late as far as taking care of eac others' needs.
Thank you in advance.
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Nobody can aswer this question but you.
I can tell you my experience. This is my H's 2nd A, he moved out and we are in plan B.I am sure there were more than 2 As in our 20 years, even if I do have proof of only 2. Looking back I can think of 3 occasions where H might have been involved in a EA or a one night stand. So that would make him 5 times a cheater.
If my H was willing to work on the M I would take him back. I love him and believe i would be able to trust him and forgive him provided he were motivated to R the M. But he is not.
The fact that he is not is key to me deciding what to do with this M and I have decided to wait till Oct 2011, giving him 2 years of plan B. If by then he has not returned then I am free to date and move on.
Some other people will not put up with more than one A and will be done right after that giving no chances for the WS to return,
What do you want to do?
blessing
atena
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Yes he recognizes a problem and knows its unacceptable behavior. We both recognize what needs we don't meet for each other. He didn't do this type of behavior as a younger person so I don't think it's just "who he is". I AG2, this has nothing to do with "unmet needs," it has to do with a complete and total lack of boundaries. If you really want to recover, he should change his life so it is so dramatically TRANSPARENT that it would be impossible to carry on an affair. And yes, this is who your husband *IS.* This is not an aberration of character, this is his way of life. Say hello to your future! This will continue to happen until your husband changes his life and starts becoming the keeper of his own boundaries. For me, he would have been given the boot at the 2nd affair.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Freeloader is unwilling to put much effort into the care of his or her partner in a romantic relationship. He or she does only what comes naturally and expects only what comes naturally. It's like a person who tries to live in a house without paying rent or doing anything to improve it unless the person is in the mood to do so.
Renter is willing to provide limited care as long as it's in his or her best interest. The romantic relationship is considered tentative, so the care is viewed as short-term. It's like a person who rents a house and is willing to stay as long as the conditions seem fair, or until he or she finds something better. The person is willing to pay reasonable rent and keep the house clean but is not willing to make repairs or improvements. It's the landlord's job to keep the place attractive enough for the renter to stay and continue paying rent.
Buyer is willing to demonstrate an extraordinary sense of care by making permanent changes in his or her own behavior and lifestyle to make the romantic relationship mutually fulfilling. Solutions to problems are long-term solutions and must work well for both partners because the romantic relationship is viewed as exclusive and permanent. It's like a person who buys a house for life with a willingness to make repairs that accomodate changing needs, painting the walls, installing new carper, replacing the roof, and even doinf some remodeling so that it can be comfortable and useful.
Buyers, Renters, Freeloaders When both spouses fail to meet each other's needs, they are BOTH in the "renter mentality".
This is one of my favorite Harley books.
I strongly recommend you read it.
"Renter mentality" is the reason there is a 50% divorce rate in the United States.
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Well I think it's easy to SAY that one would be done after the second A. You don't know until you're in that person's shoes. I thought that at one time too.
It is a matter of boundaries, BUT it is also DEFINITELY a problem of unmet needs. Mainly SF for him. I'm not minimizing my needs that haven't been met but to tell you the seriousess of this there have been times we've had sex only a few times in a year. Some of this was due to my insecurities after his As but the problem existed before the first A which I'm sure contributed to this starting. There are no physical or mental problems and S is actually great when we have it.
As far as the freeloader/renter/buyer it's hard for me to classify b/c we've both been committed to staying, but not successful and hard working at meeting each other's needs.
I don't know what I want to do or what I even CAN do. I know a few things that I can't do (i.e. go through this again, get back together with him without some proof of him handling his problems within himself). I asked him not to come home and we'll be living apart for now to do some individual soul searching, healing.
I know everyone has different levels of tolerance and there is no black/white answer. I just don't know if it's foolish to believe that if we truly stop the lovebusters in our marriage that this would stop. The only reason I give it any hope is that we have been together 20 years total and he did NOT do this until 7 years into our marriage. Thank you for listening and any insight you might have to help me decide.
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It is a matter of boundaries, BUT it is also DEFINITELY a problem of unmet needs. Mainly SF for him. I'm not minimizing my needs that haven't been met but to tell you the seriousess of this there have been times we've had sex only a few times in a year. Some of this was due to my insecurities after his As but the problem existed before the first A which I'm sure contributed to this starting. There are no physical or mental problems and S is actually great when we have it. My H and I had good sex and often. I often initiated it and had no problems satisfying his requests. He still cheated. So no matter how you turn it around you can always find something you did that, in your mind, made your H cheat. The real problem with men like our Hs is boundaries. They do not have any. Sure needs are important but ours were not met either and we choose not to cheat. As far as the freeloader/renter/buyer it's hard for me to classify b/c we've both been committed to staying, but not successful and hard working at meeting each other's needs I agree with you here. I find this a little too simplistic and I do not like when people are compared to houses or cars etc... The only reason I give it any hope is that we have been together 20 years total and he did NOT do this until 7 years into our marriage. So he is been doing this for ONLY 13 years. Wow...and you still have your sanity? Do you love yourself? Please ask yourself this question. Would you treat another like your H is treating you? If he answer is NO then you might not love yourself enough. Blessing
atena
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There is such a thing as betrayed spouse FOG. This means you do not have your head screwed on straight. You are looking for excuses instead of reasons.
I agree that he has ONLY been cheating for 13 years. OUCH!
YOU need counseling. I dunno about him, he may just be a serial cheater.
Larry
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I'm sorry I explained the length our our relationship/marriage/As wrong. We dated 7 years and have now been married almost 14. The first A (an EA) was 7 years into our marriage, which was almost 7 years ago now.
There have been many good times, good things about our marriage throughout and the As seem to focus on him getting approval, admiration, and in general being desired by the other person. This is why he didn't even need to see them and could carry on by cell phone/text and still get the need met.
Sorry for the confusion. And yes I do love myself.
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AMG
Again, YOU need counseling.
And the fact is that you don't really, really, know what he was about for the past seven (7) years. Do you, really? You can guess and make excuses, but do you really know?
Larry
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Here's a suggestion. Don't think of it as fixing your old M, think of it as creating a new healthy one using MB principles. It has worked for many couples.
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We go thru so much abuse as BS especially when we are faced with WH who are multiple cheaters. We are so damaged that we think that being treated so disrespectfully is our normal daily life.
I don't know really..but it would be much healtier to find a new life either alone or with someone else who really appreciates us!
just a thought
Blessing
atena
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"Any thoughts on whether there is ever hope for situations like this would be greatly appreciated."
Above, is your question.
I find it interesting that what you are asking for is "hope".
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Imagine the following:
The problem is that you are on a journey, and you are lost.
You stop driving, and ask a group of strangers the following question:
"Any thoughts on whether there is ever any hope for getting un-lost, would be greatly appreciated."
You don't ask for directions.
You don't ask to look at a map.
You only ask; "Is there hope?"
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Your other question is in your thread title:
"How many As can a marriage take?"
I don't suppose there is a set limit.
Our M survived one. We decided to do the research, do the work, and fix our broken marriage, so it wouldn't need to be tested as to "how many As" either of us could stand.
1. Are you on this forum to learn techniques/concepts of building a healthy marriage?
2. Are you willing to read some books and make personal changes that may fall outside your comfort zone?
3. Are you willing to set personal boundaries that protect you from further damage, irregardless of what your WH decides to do?
If you are not, I see no reason to offer hope for improvement.
One of the popular sayings on this forum is:
"Hope is not a plan"
Do you know why "hope" is not a plan?
If one "hopes" to graduate from college, but never picks up a book, or studies .... their "hope" to graduate has no energy to back it up.
Show some energy, willingness to do the work yourself, with that, there is hope for you.
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AMG, are you the same AMG who was here a few years ago? here
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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ok, AMG, I went back and read some of your old posts going back to 2003, and I am convinced he is not the problem here. The problem is one of avoidance of reality, avoidance of conflict and self delusion. In every affair, accountability is avoided with your various "excuses", ie: unmet needs, guilt, etc. The real source of the problem is NEVER ADDRESSED, which is that your H has no boundaries and should not be trusted. Because the problem is never addressed, it is never RESOLVED. You have lowered the bar so far down that he has only lived down to your expectations. I would strongly suggest that you read Dr Harley's very timely article about Can't We Just Forgive and Forget? Amg, this is from some of your previous posts on MB over the years: 12/15/03 My H was caught having an EA with a coworker in July 03. Involved many cell phone calls, some 1 hour plus. He says they didn't spend much time together at work (they "didn't have time"). The calls went both ways--from him to her and vice versa. He called her from our vacation numerous times. Two weeks ago I discovered that he had left a bar with someone. Supposedly to "go somewhere else". He says she suggested they go to a hotel. He claims he was surprised but went. Claims that when they got into the room he did kiss her but nothing more. He had been possibly planing to be gone overnight this particular night b/c we were having problems and he had taken some items with him in case he got a hotel (i.e. a radio, his guitar, etc.). I knew about this part of things. He called me early in the evening to say he was NOT going to stay away overnight and he'd be home later. Then he went to the bar and all of this unfolded. He did end up coming home after the "incident".. I'm sure we should go to counseling. However, our counselor who I saw last right after Dday told me he was a philanderer, and that basically I should leave. So this turned me off b/c I think she was harder on him than was even necessary on some issues. now had admitted that 3 mos ago agreed to give his cell # to an acquaintance of a coworker that found him attractive. Texted with this person a lot but so far hasn't admitted meeting with her which I don't really believe. In every case, his behavior is overlooked and excused: I have not met his need for SF sufficiently and I know that's the root of the problems for him. My H had just entered a new career when this happened. I think part of the attraction was that she could "show him the ropes". He was also very enthusiastic about the new job, feeling good about himself, etc. He had never worked in a traditional workplace setting prior to this and our counselor says he wasn't "emotionally prepared" to deal with the situation. . To be honest I totally understand why he did it, what needs weren't being met, etc. I'd be lying if I said otherwise--it's obvious. It is a matter of boundaries, BUT it is also DEFINITELY a problem of unmet needs. Mainly SF for him.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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30 years married, 5 affairs by FWW, (all within a year and occured 21 years ago)...Dday, almost 6 months ago.
Surviving...slowly.
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My answer to you thread question is probably not what anyone would expect.
NONE
The real answer to your question is that. Now how many A's can one BS take? that is a totally different ball of wax my friend. It depends on the limits that any one BS wants to put on their own sanity.
I believe that history repeats itself until and unless we make a CONSCIOUS effort to CHANGE the behaviours that got us to that in the first place.
My Dad has always told me, "The definition of insanity is "Repeating the same series of events over and over again, and expecting a different outcome.""
I hope you find peace.
Last edited by Scotland; 02/14/10 08:51 PM.
BW(Me)aka Scotty:37 DSx2: 10,12 DDAY2(PA)Nov27/09 Plan B Dec18/09 Personal R in works Scotty's THING  Newly Betrayed click herePraying for walls and doors. Thanx MM “Surviving is important. Thriving is elegant.” ? Maya Angelou PROGRESS NOT PERFECTION THANK YOU
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Yes I'm the same AMG. For some reason my old login would not let me see posts so I had to create a new one.
I am going to a counselor again and feel like I'm addressing some very important issues for myself (being reactive, aggressive, love busting). I never really could see these issues in myself clearly until pretty recently even though I had ready a number of Harley books.
As you all probably know it's hard to clearly and concisely convey a situation, person on these posts without them being VERY lengthy. I don't think I'm a complete naive idiot, and I don't think he's a complete philandering jerk. We're good ppl who have hurt eachother deeply over a number of years and now have to decide if we want to/can/should try yet another time. It is very sad actually--both of us so torn up over a situation we've put ourselves into. It's easier to criticize him since he has lied and had the As, but really what person isn't going to look elsewhere if they're getting SF only a few times per year and feeling completely unattractive to their spouse. That's the most baffling part is we have no physical probs and S is really great--but yet we often aren't emotionally close for this to happen or we are for a spurt and then stop again. Lovebusting at it's finest I suppose.
I appreciate everyone's thoughts especially Pepperband with the clarification of the term "hope" versus "hard work" and Verysadtime for pointing out the concept of creating a "new" marriage instead of fixing old one.
I obviously have a lot of thinking and hard work ahead of me either way...so please keep both of us in your prayers.
I appreciate
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