There is a fundamental difference between a WS who is still actively involved with their affair partner and one who has ended their affair and then disclosed said affair on their own.

And if a BS is having to endure an active WS carrying on their affair from the marital home, I would advise the BS to pressure the WS to move out after 3-6 months of plan A, so that they can implement plan B. If that didn't work, I would advise the BS to file for legal separation so that they can go to plan B. But plan B is only for an active affair. I would not advise an active WS to do anything other than end their affair and establish NC w/ their affair partner.

Actually, I believe the word Dr Harley used was ANY contact.

And there is still contact in this case.

At the risk of continuing to "peck" on this issue, I am very confused. Jim stated that SWS couldn't change his phone # until his work contract ended in a few weeks. But SWS stated he has already left the job.

SWS, I believe you would have the number changed by WED this coming week but then you later stated that you needed to keep the old phone # but you weren't sure if you should let your BW handled the calls/texts.

Can we get this part straightened out? Has the number been changed yet? If this was neede for work purposes and you have left the job, why not? I can say personally if I was in the BW in this case this issue would be very upsetting to me given that the OW is very brazen in this case and hasn't backed down yet...

He has put in his notice. He still has to finish out his contract. He has addressed this.

HHH, I supplied that link mainly in reference to the abuse and how it was defined by Dr. Harley.

I also posted that link as a starting point for reading, not as an ending point.

Maybe you, Jim and any others that want to continue t/jing with this discussion could start a different thread about this subject.

One being that an affair is not abuse...
Two being that a wayward should not respect his wifes request to move out for a cooling off period after an affair.

See how that works out....

So you are saying a BS should be comfortable with a WS saying they need to keep a phone that was used during the affair, that the OP still contacts them on, for an "extended period"?

I'm saying he is required to by his contract and he's already discussed this situation with his BW. It is something he needs to talk to his BW about to POJA a mutually acceptable solution to. I don't think it currently is a big issue for his BW right now. She understands he must be reached by work and cannot control the OW attempting to contact him. Why don't you ask her?

A past affair is not current abuse, nor is it physical abuse.


A man should not move out and abandon his children.

contractually, I am engaged until end of Feb, but I am physically leaving in 24 hours. Somehow, somewhere there will be a link to any number that I have for some time. The OW hasn't attempted any contact since the NC was sent other than an immediate response saying that she received it.

I'm up just going over all the posts from people. I appreciate all the advice and concern and help. I haven't been following my wife's thread, but I'm assuming that ya'll are helping her as well, and we really appreciate it.

I think I have now really separated things in my mind about where to go next.

First, is the personal/individual journey - I have to continue to really work on those weaknesses, and mindsets that led me to dropping my resistance to an affair. Any happiness, whether in, or out of the marriage is contingent on this. This is my journey that I have to do, something I want to do, regardless of what my wife decides for our marriage. An associated part of this is that I need to be ready to help my wife on her personal journey of recovering from the pain I have caused her.

Secondly, is the marriage/relationship journey. How quickly we take that journey, and whether we take that journey or not is my wife's decision. I am going to try and make the case of working on this together, but it is her decision ultimately.

Whether or not to leave the house, I will have to continue to think and pray and talk with my wife about that. I am hopeful that during the brief time that she has already said she is okay with me being in the house, that I can show the intent of my heart through my behavior, and she will feel comfortable that I am not going to be praise-mongering, overbearing, and a "taker".

NC/EPs are not POJA issues.

It is clear that she is unhappy that the OW has continued to contact her H over the past few weeks. Her thread speaks for itself.

Given that she is already unsure if she wants to R, given that he is the head of the company, I would think this would be something he can accomplish.

You are satisfactory with his responses on this issue ~ I guess I am saying I am not.

On the phone issue - here is what I will do tomorrow.

Issue myself a new number. Send an SMS or an email notification to everyone who I think needs to have my new number. Give my old number to my assistant. Have her take messages and email me every day if there is anyone who needs to reach me.

One of the things that I appreciate from all of you, is the feeling that when I think I am doing good enough, you can always push me a bit farther. I'll do anything to show my wife that her well being is more important to me than anything.

Bingo!

I'm realizing more and more why my wife is allowing herself to get so angry...it isn't just the A. It is the fact that when I do the calculation of how my actions will impact others, her and her feelings aren't always the first consideration. Even on this phone issue. Even if there is a chance of contact, or a chance that my wife is uncomfortable, why would I wait even a second to toss the thing.

I knew you could do better. Good job SWS!

Thank God all of you! PLEASE MAKE HIM STOP ALL THE B.S.!

What is so infuriating is HOW HE STILL PERCEIVES the OW, and himself.

1. She f*&*ed him even when he was supposedly saying, "No, I can't." So what does he do? He comforts her after ward because he doesn't want her to feel bad. He tells her he loves her. He thinks it's because he is so f-ing irresistible to him and he gets off on it.

2. He feels he "owes" her something because you don't just f*&* people casually for fun. So HE turns this mistake into an ongoing relationship.

3. He is a shoulder for her to cry on. All the while neglecting his own W because he's tired of her own crying.

4. When he feels he might get his own EN met by his W, he goes for one last f*&^ and then comes home and tells his wife.

5. He tells his wife without having broken up with the OW, deleted her from his phone, FB, skype, anything. No ideas!

6. His wife demands a break-up conversation, and then has to listen to the weepy "I'm so sorry," and the "Is your mom there with you?" (I.e. so you can be comforted through all this pain I'm reluctantly causing you). Never once does he say "I love my wife." Or "I choose my wife." Or "I love my wife more than you." Or "I don't love you." He never gets mean AT ALL.

7. He brings up in an unrelated conversation about how the OW was supposedly hit on by this ruthless guy that he knows. SYMPATHY FOR HER THROUGHOUT.

8. He tells me about how hard her life was and how her father is in jail.

9. He is totally 100% sure we're not going to have any STDs. Why because he knows OW so well, and she is sooooooooooo trustworthy. Hell-f-ing-O!!! I almost wish we had a disease for spite!

9. He blames all the future contact from OW on me and FBing her. He tells me that she is not going to be the type that keeps hanging on. You can see from his last post that she only responded to the NC letter to say "Oh yes, thank you sir, message received." Not exactly. I guess he really knows his AP. Vomit.

10. He hates the idea of her hating him. He gets mad when I call her whore, and says "She's not a bad person."

11. He gets off on the phone calls, and texts, and drama of it all.


Its SWS over everything, his needs over everything, job over everything, OW over everything. If I was on a bus and he saw someone he thought should be sitting, he would literally pick me up and throw me out of my seat.

That is what we are dealing with.

He is only treating this like he would any job related problem. Do the minimum reqs to get the desired result.

NO THANKS! NOT GOOD ENOUGH!

SusieQ - No! You are the one who keeps pushing me to do better....no praise from you! :-)

I apologize if my posts are off topic, but it helps me to describe the thought process I'm going through, and the different layers of realizations I have...

I'm thankful to the WS who have been posting. I see now the common thread...not only did you have a spouse who was willing to recover with you, but you had a serious change of perspective. I keep thinking that I have had a serious change, but every few days, it becomes deeper and deeper. I guess that is natural, but I also realize now why just forgiving and moving on from the side of my dear, dear, sweet wife ( I can't see the keyboard through the tears....), is a diservice to us both. If this marriage is ever going to work, I need to keep peeling back the layers, and come to these deeper realizations of what it means to "cleave unto none other".

I thought I understood it, I really did. I thought I was doing that. Then I fell so deep into something that I had committed over and over to never do. That means somewhere along the line, I either lost what I had, or I never really understood it to start with.

And even now, after some truly amazing revelations and inspirations, whenever I think I am at the level where I need to be, I get moved to an even deeper understanding and realization. Thank you so much to the people pushing me. You all have actually come through to the other side, and I respect you so much for that. I am praying for those who are actively following both mine and seriously's threads that you can be guided to put the right things in our minds for our situation.

And, to think I COULDA HAD A V-8!!!!!


Thank You, HPB!

I'm not sure how to continue. I obviously have a long road ahead of proving what is in my heart...My comments about the OW were all made in the initial emotional first night of me confessing and trying to answer questions about who she was, and what happened...I don't defend her, think she is a good person, nor have any place for her or what we did in my heart. It was terrible, and it was blackness. I get physically ill when I think of it.

I admit that I began placing my needs above those of my wife, and placing the needs of the other people who depended on me above hers. I don't ever remember consciously doing that, but the result is the same. I am understanding more and more how I was doing that as I review the past 8 years. I've begin to look at everything I've done, and apply the worst motives to it.

I actually hate the drama of this. It is the worst thing to ever happen in my life. I know that this isn't the forum for apologizing, but knowing that S is reading, I just have to tell her that I am sorry. I know I've thrown everything away. I knew it the first night. I wish I would have never met her. I wish I could take it all back. There is nothing good to be learned from this. It is all blackness. I wish I could change the past. I can't. I'm trying to change the future. I know you have told me that you don't care about what I do from now on, but I am going to keep trying. I am so sorry.

SERIOUSLY GET OFF OF THIS THREAD.

Scotland - It is fine with me. I need as many people checking the b.s. that I am able to spew as possible. This is one of the few lines of communication that are still open at this point.

SeriouslyWS, it is not uncommon for posters to advise spouses to stay off of each other's threads.

You should stay off of her thread as well.