thank you! i called another lawyer and have an appointment!

she does alot of mediation but i can retain her as my lawyer. she also suggested that i ask H consider someone else since he seemed geared up for a fight (he specializes in litigation)

she confirmed we both need our own and explained the basics.

i guess since we thought that we were on the same side this would be easy. like when you do a will. we are working on this as a team and this puts a kinda divide between us and i dont like the feeling. i will discuss with H. go to the meeting and see what she says.

any thoughts on anything pertaining to post nup would be appreciated!

Have you ever thought about emailing Dr. Harley?

i will ask steve his thoughts on our next call. then i can post in the other forum.

i am trying to get a sense from people that have been thru it and what their experiences have been.

Have you read HerPapaBear's thread? They did a post nup.

Another Lawyer chiming in...


I think it's great if you have his lawyer draft the thing and then you look it over independently with your own lawyer. Fixing things if need be but it should be pretty simple. If you ever have to enforce this thing it will bode well for you that HE (and his attorney) got to draft this aggressive egregious (as they will attempt to claim at that time) document.

As Kerala pointed out .... "proof" is a fair question. Which I think the standard should be a preponderance of the evidence and if such evidence is disputed an Arbitrator should decide. You may also get into a bunch of questions about the definition of "Affair". Two lawyers could really blow this up into an expensive proposition which you hope to keep simple. Try not to let them drive the ship into the ground. If you sign a document giving you "everything" he can still cheat and just try to make sure that "everything" is already spent or hidden by the time you catch him. In the end...it's just another piece of paper that MAY help in the future...for now, it's just a demonstration of his remorse and possible dedication to becoming a better, more accountable, husband.



Mr. Wondering

This is not like a will, at all.

This document's ONLY role is in the event that you are NOT on the same side. If a further adultery occurs, but your H is willing to give you everything, the document is perfectly irrelevant. The document only comes into play to FORCE him to do so.

Legally, the two of you are adversaries in the situation covered by the document. It makes absolutely no sense to draw one up otherwise.

ETA: I agree with Mr. Wondering that the document can play a separate role in showing your H's remorse. But, once you involve lawyers, it is difficult to keep things solely at that level.

thank you all for your advice!!

I have read HPB thread, but will go back for specifics on this process.

Ok now I am confused� should I cancel my appointment??- the only reason I made one was because of the experience we had with the other lawyer and my feeling of being on trial. H was not happy with that and thought that if I pursue it I would feel better.

I will think about what defines proof and what defines and �Affair�

�Legally, the two of you are adversaries in the situation covered by the document. It makes absolutely no sense to draw one up otherwise.�

We are on the same side now, but with A�s things can get ugly regardless, so if now he says he is will to give me everything that�s great but when the wayward fog hits, you can never tell.

�I agree with Mr. Wondering that the document can play a separate role in showing your H's remorse. But, once you involve lawyers, it is difficult to keep things solely at that level�

I agree it shows his remorse but completing the document may get ugly, not because we want it to but lawyers can do that� I am feeling like there is no way to do this and not stir the pot with ick, and no way to guarantee my financial future if an A were to happen. the last thing i want to do if H has another A is see him or speak to him and i do not want to be fighting in divorce court, which would get ugly and i dont want to be that.

Walking in circles with this one��

OK I threw this together....I wouldn't use it word for word as it's only worth about what you paid for it (LOL). Just giving you some ideas.

- Mr. W



For purposes of this agreement, the term Extramarital Affair ("EM") shall defined as any expression by Husband of sexual or romantic interest whether in person or online in any person not blood related to Husband.

As a matter of proof, any documentation demonstrating husband in a private room (virtual or real) and/or dwelling, including but not limited to a home, hotel, motel, condo or other living quarters, a porn-site video chat room or even a closed private office or secluded parked auto for more than 5 minutes alone with any woman not blood related shall be presumed sexual in nature and as such, shift the burden of proof to Husband to prove by a preponderance of the evidence that an EM has not taken place.

Accordingly, for the duration of the marriage regardless of any and all state and federal laws, regulations, statutes to the contrary, Husband hereby waives all rights to claims of privacy vis a vis his wife. He agrees to that ALL passwords and email addresses, online persona(s), computers, tablets, emails, texts messages, cell phones, (including work phones and emails to the extent possible), phones and phone numbers, electronic devices are jointly owned and operated and shall be disclosed and shared with wife. Husband waives and notice requirements, if any, and grants wife the right to track him by GPS devices or otherwise and to eavesdrop or otherwise record by video or other listening device(s) at any time and any where he goes, works, resides, talks, etc. The discovery and documentation of secret communication and/or secret communication devices in the possession of Husband shall be an indication of a presumed EM and as such switch the burden of proof to Husband to demonstrate he is NOT having an EM by a preponderance of the evidence.

Finally, for purposes of this agreement an EM shall include a documented failure by Husband to reasonably avoid and resist the romantic and sexual flirtations and advances of any and all actor(s)/actress(es) that may be hired by Wife to test the fidelity/faithfulness of Husband.

Damn! Thank you x100. I know it doesn't look as good in the courts if it begins with me but is it bad if it does. I want this over. Wow thank you I am speachless. To me its worth a lot.

I think because you have been there you know what should be included

Thank you!

Let him come up with the first draft where he "gives you everything if he has an affair" and then you just make the one simple little (lol) change defining the word "Affair".

The egregious part of the document won't be the definition of the word affair....that will be easy as he either is or is not having having one. No...the difficult part of enforcing this post-nup will be the fact that he's giving you EVERYTHING. Judges don't have to honor post-nups. If they don't think it was fairly drawn up and negotiated they can set it aside and do what they want. The fact HIS attorney drafted that "you get everything" clause may bode well for you.


Post nups also require you to list out all your assets. List A is YOUR stuff, List B is his stuff (like personal property, furniture he brought into the marriage or got from his Aunt Sally when she dies and/or inheritances which you've kept separate up till now) and List C is all the marital property. It wouldn't be a bad idea to include as much as you can on List B "his stuff" such that even if he has an "EM" that the document doesn't seem to give you absolutely everything (i.e.- let him take the pool table or big screen tv from the basement something big AND a hassle to move - lol) Another function of this document is to help you get out of there quickly, by making the document a bit more fair seeming may assist it making it incontestable. At that point you'll just want to move on. For example, instead of saying you get 100%, perhaps you say, you get 75%-90% of everything.

Also...if "EVERYTHING" isn't all that much....you and your attorney will need to consider statements about continuing alimony, if it's even possible to predetermine in your state.

Also...in today's day and age...ask your attorney whether a clause about continuing health insurance coverage until you reach medicare age or longer...is necessary.

I didn't say anything about Child Support because, as I recall, you can't set out Child Support in a pre-nup. The court decides that based upon state laws and formulas.

Mr. W

Most of our info is on my wife's thread (sexymamabear)

I do feel that the advise you're receiving covers it all very weel.

thank you so much for all of your help!!!!

sorry for the delay, went to the lawyer and it went much better.

Mr. W thats exactly what she said. she said her job was to make the post nup enforceable. otherwise there is no point to it.
she said at 100% it would seem as unjust. so she said come up with a figure that would satisfy me and not seem unjust.

she also said better to not use adultery in it as you could get into those grey areas and why not just do it in general. and if there was no case of and A and we still wanted to get D then we work from there. but she said but you are not going to get a D so let this sit on a shelf and collect dust.

bottom line was that this has to stick and be upheld otherwise its pointless.

she had some interesting ideas. i really liked her and she got what i was saying. So H and have alot to talk about, and if we move forward with her it requires alot of paperwork.

I'm so glad you're getting some movement on it.

Maybe when you get this ironed out you could start a thread with your experience so we have a reference? Please. I think a post nuptial is a good requirement for recovery.

Ok a snafu� I am trying to be calm and not slash tires or throw all of jerky boy�s things on the yard at this point in time.

Heres the jist, yesterday H got a text from a guy that he sails with saying I am gonna bring a friend and H says no problem, yes I see this because�.. I snoop. � failed #1

H doesn�t tell me this until today an hour before the race.

H tells me friend is bringing a friend a guy who has been on the boat

Side note- there is a no girls allowed rule on the boat- discussed and agreed- it almost happened before

H doesn�t know it�s a guy = why because H never asked he said sure no problem- not well who might your friend bc you know there are no girls allowed� Failed #2

So I think why not go down and see them off, and low and behold the guy�s friend has a long pony tail (unless I am a moron- it�s a human with boobs)

Not this young man�s fault at all � how would he know- unless H told him

Which he obviously did not.

Now H still proceeded to sail off for the race with the unsuspecting boy and his girl and he has still not called to inform me of the situation � Failed # 3

nor did he protect himself by either removing himself from the boat (yes he has no problem lending the boat) or telling young man, that this is not cool I don�t have women on the boat unless my wife is here. Failed # 4

I am at a loss, I really thing how many times and things does one have to put up with no matter how minor.

Also do I say something now- via txt before he even disembarks- it is a race so I know it�s crazy out there, or do I see if he is going to lie- don�t think he will but the above failures must count for something

I cannot believe I am writing this when we were so so far along and going so well, maybe some people cant change.

ok he has acknowledged from the boat that he had poor boundires and did not protect me. i am making a decision to not make a decision tonite. but i am still mad.

Well it may be the friends girlfriend.

I would suggest reminding him of the POJA to not have opposite sex on the boat and complain about it (complain as MB recommends)

Ok, so it's not a deal-breaker, right? But definitely a point against him. He acknowledged what he did was wrong. So I would just keep watch for any other lapses of protection.

it was a friend from work, we did POJA this in the past thats why i am upset.

very bad argument and this may be the turning point, i just think my requirements maybe too much for him. its not supposed to be a marriage at all cost for either spouse and he is obviously unhappy.

i am more disappointed that he had no empathy or emotion to how i could have been feeling. he just said sorry and that was it he closed down.

he is resentful and angry- bc he cant do anything right and i will never be happy and there will always be this thing over his head.

he has cut everything out of his life and that come with a price for me. it like a little kid that gets mad and stomps away.

and i really am tired of the word sorry, i want to hear how you will fix it and how it wont happen again. sorrys dont mean much.

needless to say when he closed down i totally LB- not once did i bring up any A. i am just tired. how these things get turned around onto his feelings i dont know.

Did you ask him "Why not?"

yes i did and really got nothing but a bunch of excuses that he acknowledged mean nothing and are not excuse.