Watermark moment!

Creed; I don't need to be here, I choose to be here because I want to be here.

I feel this makes a big difference.

Just yesterday while walking in the park, as she has done on several occasions, my W exclaimed to me that she realizes that I could kick her to the curb, leave her, and everyone would know why the M failed...but I CHOOSE to stay committed, recover our M, keep the family intact...that is HUGE to her, "very humbling, and I am blessed you have made that decision, shows your love and committment to me..."

Once she realized that, I feel I became a bit more empowered...

HHH and hfd - I'm about to test that watermark theory. I've turned into a negotiator in our MC session; removing the emotion from the discussion. I made the statement that I want to save this M, but if we're going to do this (D), let's get it over with. We'll see how WW responds. LOL

It is empowering - and can be so for both spouses.

It relieves the fear of failure from the BS, and invokes a sense of urgency in the WS.

My fear of failure is dissapating. I am in control of me. And not responsible or able or desiring to control her. (she doesn't see how she can control her own self right now IMHO. She has a dependance on me being the bad guy. She feels "trapped" and all that nonsense.) Right now she is actually out of control. Something strange is controlling her "urges" and fantasies and reactions to her world.

Enough about diagnosing her. I am just here to support and help her find her way. But I was talking to my PC today and.... I do need to vent somewhere sometimes if I am going to make it through the next few months while she slowly drifts one way or the other. He said, "You are not acting like a chump and blaming yourself anymore. You sound very decent and show a lot of patience." I asked him to help me keep working on me -- he is my therapist / not hers nor our MC. But he has helped me be strong and confident. Its okay to be angry when your wife cannot commit -- cannot commit to her marriage and family, yes... but also cannot commit to removing OM from her life... cannot commit to a clear and simple thing such as never sending him an email again! Yes, angry and frustrated BH is okay. Wouldn't be abnormal to kick her out... some men would. Some have suggested I do so. I won't. But I am okay if that's what she needs.

Meantime, just keep working on me.

Sometimes, we need each other on this forum to vent about WS.
Sometimes, we need each other on this forum to help us improve ourselves.
Sometimes, we need each other to celebrate !

I'm interested to see, Andy.

Be the Alpha.

Well put Stretch! I think you are 100% correct - it's almost like the stages of the grieving process. The WS have already gone through it on some level and they're done with it. We're in catch up mode by definition. It's tough.

The only person you can control is you. Giving up that urge to save/control my WW is one of the best things I've done in this process. I can't control my WW's actions - I don't even really try anymore. I feel pity for her more and more. I will have to endure some short term pain, but I believe she's in for more long term pain than me. After all, she's the one that'll have to face DS's questions about her affair at some point. I can answer open and honestly and look myself in the mirror. I have nothing to be ashamed of, IMVHO. That was/is my goal. My new normal is DS and me - if she comes back, she can probably be a part of it. However, that'll all depend on her level of committment and also where I/we are at. Yes, the clock is ticking for her. I hope you'll continue to work on you and make the best of it for your kids!

HHH - Right now I am the Alpha male. Putting forth the refi as exhibit #1 today. She tried to sidetrack that and I wouldn't let her. It'll be interesting if she balks at signing the quit claim.

I THINK Trip was referring to "Alpha" as the initial functional version of a process (like software) which is usually full of patches and work-arounds. (The "Beta" version is traditionally much more robust, and often is test-installed in real customers' offices in a cooperative-development protocol.)

Sadly, you appear to be the farthest along (of the Winter 2010/11 "class" of BH's) toward reaching a final (if unfortunate) resolution, so you're the "Alpha" in that manner.

NG - LOL - Nope I'm not the lead dog, the scenery doesn't change for me, if you know what I mean - TimB has me beat by a bit. He's officially 'in-divorce' with filed paperwork. Sadly, his and my WW share a lot of the same personality traits. They're both prideful and stubborn. Neither one of us has completely given up hope and we wish they would return, but the reality is looking much different. In my case, I see this as a part of the journey. My WW needs to move and be out on her own, before reality will set in. Once it sets in, there might be a chance at reconciliation. I'm not counting on that mind you. That's just my objective (biased I know) assessment of my situation. This will take some time to play out, probably into the fall/winter, I'm guessing. It'll test the patience of the vets, me and everyone else on this board. LoL.

Was wondering this as well. As my wife has been on just about every anti-D ever made, I can attest that it is largely trial-and-error until they get the "right" combination.

In the meantime, unfortunately, the depression cycle (from the outside-looking-in) can seem self-fulfilling. Your wife seems to be stuck in that loop right now.

On her second AD meds in the past five years. Started with Wellbutrin for a few years. (Helps lose weight btw) But the Wellbutrin she said, had too many conversations and voices in her head. She's been on Zoloft for some time now. Don't know if its working any better. She bonks and gets really tired in the afternoon. My Dad spent ten years getting the right ADs.

I think she may need a better talk therapist. Too much invested in this one in the "bad husband" and figuring out her affair. Doesn't seem to have helped her manage / cope with her own depression for herself ... feels like its much focused on her bad husband as the source. But I don't know that. He could have been much, much worse. Let's see if he helps her turn it around in the next 6 months. But its not all up to him. She has to do it for herself.

I think she needs better support network, things to do everyday, some goals everyday, more exercise, diet, sunny days. And a better husband... which I am working on like crazy. But maybe I've had the throttle on too high making my changes.

Start with exercise (it really helps my wife and, hey, it's good for you, too) even if it's just a quick walk with the kids. Or, you keep the kids, she goes and runs for 1/2 hour or so, come back, eat supper, put the kids down, etc. That's what we do. It helps her a good bit to unwind since she's home with our youngest all day.

I think she should head out the door for a walk in the afternoon before dinner. I can make dinner usually.

Bad memory: she did that all during the affair. But she just needed to get out and cry for half an hour back then. I knew things were bad and ignored it.

Its different now. She needs to get out and away from the noise and kids for 30 mins and come back with me calm from work and the family calm for dinner. After the busses get home until dinner is what we call the bewitching hours. The energy level in the house just goes zany.

I know what you mean, stretch. Until the kids go to bed, it's kind of crazy.

Offer to keep the kids for an hour or so, tell her to go do something for herself--take a walk, go to a bookstore, whatever she wants.

Ditto - I offer to watch DS so that WW can go to the gym. I think it's a good idea.

Not sure if I mentioned it before, but my wife's psychiatrist told us that exercise (even the "fun" kind, wink wink) releases some brain chemical that helps alleviate the chemical imbalances of depression. Or something like that. Point is, it'd probably help your wife's mindset more than you'd think.

Exercise definitely helps depression. I'm living proof.

I used exercise to control both depression and anxiety and still use it today for that purpose. Not to mention it keeps me in shape!

Oh, stretch, when you get a moment, you might drop by my thread as there were some questions posed there for you.

And if I get any messages here at "D-Day 2 hours ago" , let me know, ok?

NW - LMAO! The mods are not going to be happy about this, but a bit of levity helps in times like these.