What have you done to make your W feel better about you? What have you done to make her feel cared and protected?

What is your plan to make it up to her?

You have said that you have been separated before and that has changed nothing, and that communication is an issue in your marriage. And yet you are again separated. Why?

mr_swole, I have to agree with this.. I feel that going back to church gave me a much needed perspective on my wayward ways. If you truly believe this, it is also a very narrow path to walk. It cannot be piece-mealed. It's an all or nothing approach, and there are no exceptions to any rules. I have found that to be the case with MB principles as well.

So when you feel discouraged, just stay the course. Read the bible, or get on this site and read posts, read the books, go to an extra church service..

Again, stay the course of God and saving your M. Block anything else out of your mind. Continue to try to be a source of happiness for your W, and avoid creating any upset. If your efforts go unnoticed or prove fruitless at the moment, don't give up. Stay the course and remain faithful.

Best of luck to you.

Thanks Grace I needed to hear that!!

Ok, Mr. Swole...

Let me begin by saying that I am not a believe, and in the same breathe, tell you that I totally agree with you.

Now, allow me to explain to you why, based on the scriptural understanding of an "outsider."

God created man.

God created woman.

God created man and woman to be together, and to compliment each other.

To bolster this compliment, God set forth the covenant of marriage. This covenant is made between man and God, woman and God, man and woman, man, woman, and God.

When you exchanged vows, those vows were NOT just unto each other, but also unto God.

In this sense, you are NOT in fact putting your marriage second, as maintaining your marriage is maintaining an oath you made in faith to God.

If you allow your marriage to falter, you are failing to honor that same oath.

So, actually... you cannot POSSIBLY be putting God first, if you put your marriage and the oath you made to Him second. In that sense, you are in fact putting YOURSELF first - before your marriage, and before your oath to God.

Maintain your oath, and you then put God first.

Here's what I think.

You haven't been remorseful enough, humble enough. I understand your need to fix this marriage, but you just can't keep telling her what needs to be done to fix it. This makes her feel worse and resentful.

How would you feel after years of betrayal that you need to communicate better? That is making your affairs some sort of communication fopa not a tragedy as it is.

She is most probably very hurt and angry by what you have done to her. You need to focus on what she needs and how you can heal her pain and stop focusing so much on the issues in marriage. Everybody has issues. You can fix them together after you have shown to her that you can be trusted in this.

Keep asking her out, keep being there all the time just for her. Apologise and listen to what she has to say. Whatever it takes to make it up to her. This is not me-time anymore.

This bears repeating... mr_swole, based on your sig line, you have chosen to stray from the M more than once. This pattern of behavior will not be easy to change, but it must change to save your M and your own conscience.

You will experience set-backs and difficulties, but you can't revert to old behaviors. And in one of your previous posts, you mentioned that you fell "in love" with the OW.. Don't let that fog up your thinking. You fell in love with the feeling, not the woman. There is a difference. I'm still working on this in my situation, but I'm starting to have faith that I can have that "feeling" with my H.

Follow this program and stay the course.

God Bless.

Hey Mr. Swole.

Me again.

Glad you've quit making your wife feel that SHE was the reason for YOUR MANY affairs. That is some progress.

But what you CAN do that I don't hear a bit from you about is TRANSPARENCY. How can you prove to your bw that you aren't going to do this again?

You become transparent. You give her ALL YOUR PASSWORDS to your computers, to your phones, and you do not eat lunch or hang out with or converse with the opposite sex. You tell her each day that you plan to intend to be the best husband SHE could deserve and work towards making her FEEL SAFE IN THE MARRIAGE again or else I can guarantee she won't prob stay.

Marriage is a holy covenant, but anybody who is a minister can tell you that you do not HAVE TO REMAIN MARRIED to a repeat or an unrepentant adulterer. In fact, it's up to the betrayed spouse if they choose to stay or not. Marriage IS NOT AT ALL COSTS.

So you must work as hard as you can possibly work, and FORMULATE A MB PLAN, maybe even get phone counseling or the online counseling here from Dr. Harley to get things going in the right direction. Your bw might not have faith in you at all right now (rightly so) and your job is to re-instill her faith in you. And you gotta work.

Telling me that you didn't communicate with me that great is why you screwed around on me would NOT make me want to remain married to a man who was a serial cheater.

I would say, MS, that your "choice" is fog. For you to have a "choice" she would first have to accept reconciliation and recovery.

Your "choice" is a fantasy.

You had a "choice" before you had multiple affairs. It was at THAT TIME you gave up your choice.

I just cannot believe how incredibly selfish you are. You are in NO POSITION of demanding ANYTHING from your BS, from a person whose married life has been full of lies because of you, yet you are full of arrogance to demand changes in her just so you can enjoy your too short life!

You are just �berfoggy.

Again, until you lose that "I'm right and it's about me" attitude, she will want the divorce and want out.

She's probably MISERABLE too. Miserable. And she hears half nice and reasonable words from you and the other half, TAKER OUT OF CONTROL type words, like the ones highlighted above) and is confused and thinking of running for the hills.

You want to know why you don't have dates with her or you don't have intimate conversations with her??

Want a hint?

YOU BETRAYED AND BROKE THE TRUST SEVERAL TIMES OVER CHEATING.

Her actions speak volumes??? What about yours?

You say that you want help with your M, but are you really committed to making changes (regardless of what results you get at the start)..

You need to go into this expecting nothing in return, because you're climbing out of a huge pit of deception, lies and cheating (multiple times).

Get back to your Christian roots, as you mentioned earlier in this thread. When you look in the mirror, do you like what you see?

No disrepect, mr_swole, but your statements are way out of line of Christian thinking, and they will not help your M, as you claim you wish to do.

I'm just catching up with the thread and someone may have asked this already... Is this about you, her, the kids or the family as a whole?

I'm guessing you're probably in a Christian Church... Let me speak to you from an explicitly "Christian" perspective.

Physical Adultery is a sin. You have drank from another woman's well. You took something that doesn't belong to you, and gave away what rightfully belonged to your wife. Adultery not only constitutes a violation of God's law in sleeping with another woman, but also lying and stealing. I might add that you also are guilty of trying to commit murder as you placed your wife's life in danger by having sex outside of marriage.

It doesn't take a vision from God to know that adultery is wrong. All one had to do is open the Bible, the Christian's guide for faith and life. Likewise, it doesn't take a vision to know that while God hates divorce, your wife is perfectly within her right to file for one.

My friend, you need to sit and do some serious reflection into your own heart. You need to come to grips with the fact that you have grievously sinned against yourself, God, and your family.

Repentance isn't simply being sorry. It is turning from your sin. 180 degrees. It is conforming your mind.

I will post something on biblical repentance in a bit. It jives quite nice with MB, but is rather long.

CV

Mr. Swole,

May I ask what type of church you are in? I don't want the name of it or anything, but are you baptist, presbyterian, non-denom...

Have you considered going before your church leadership as your own accuser, and submitting yourself to them for help? The leaders of your church have been tasked with caring for the flock.

It seems you are struggling with what repentance really is. Let me post this biblical commentary from Corinthians I prepared some time back:


Repentance unto Life: An Exegetical Discourse on II Corinthians 7:9-11 (my apologies if the greek font does not translate well into the post. )


It is long, but it is important to read.

Celtic Voyager

2Co 7:9-11 as it is, I rejoice, not because you were grieved, but because you were grieved into repenting. For you felt a godly grief, so that you suffered no loss through us. (10) For godly grief produces a repentance that leads to salvation without regret, whereas worldly grief produces death. (11) For see what earnestness this godly grief has produced in you, but also what eagerness to clear yourselves, what indignation, what fear, what longing, what zeal, what punishment! At every point you have proved yourselves innocent in the matter.




Introductory Matters:



Audience:
The opening of the letter states that it was addressed to the church in Corinth and to Christians throughout Achaia (the Roman province comprising all of Greece south of Macedonia).

Date:
Most historians believe that A.D. 55 is a reasonable estimate for the writing of this letter. From 1Co 16:5�8 it may be concluded that 1 Corinthians was written from Ephesus before Pentecost (in the late spring) and that 2 Corinthians may have been written later that same year. 2Co 2:13; 7:5 indicate that it was probably written from Macedonia


Occasion:
Paul had previously written to the church in Corinth concerning several sins that the church had fallen into, moral, ecclesiastical and doctrinal. As the apostle here approaches our section in chapter 7, he begins to make mention of his previous letter to them. It appears that Paul�s letter of chastisement to the Corinthians has been taken to heart and that the Corinthians are truly repentant. It is in this context that Paul begins his discourse in verses 9-11, establishing exactly what godly grief over sin looks like.







Commentary on the text (verses 7-9):


2Co 7:7-8 and not only by his[Titus�] coming but also by the comfort with which he was comforted by you, as he told us of your longing, your mourning, your zeal for me, so that I rejoiced still more. (8) For even if I made you grieve with my letter, I do not regret it--though I did regret it, for I see that that letter grieved you, though only for a while. (9) As it is, I rejoice, not because you were grieved, but because you were grieved into repenting. For you felt a godly grief, so that you suffered no loss through us.



As Paul begins his discourse, it is clear that his attitude was, having dealt with the sinner (1 Cor 5), he sought to bring the congregation itself to a place of repentance , and though he was grieved over the need to speak to them in harsh words, he is glad for the benefits it produced. The letter, though not written in the tone and spirit Paul may have desired, nonetheless produced profitable results for its readers. In essence, Paul is saying that even though he is saddened that he had to write in the manner he did, he rejoices over the fruit that it has borne and this in itself is cause for rejoicing.

It is clear that Paul has discipline in mind as he speaks to the Corinthians. Though he was saddened by the fact he had to admonish and rebuke, he saw the necessity of it as well as the subsequent fruit. Paul�s admonition brought what he describes as, a godly grief and as such says they suffered no loss. That is, no damage was done to their souls as a result of the rebukes. There are two distinct words used by Paul in these verses which must be kept clearly in mind. The word translated as �grief� (lupee) does not, of necessity, carry it with the idea of God-centered repentance (metanoia), a change of heart direction and subsequent actions. In this way �grief� is akin to the actions of Judas Iscariot in Matthew 27:3 who changed his mind without alteration in either his heart or his actions. What Paul is rejoicing in then is what the Puritans refer to as a �true evangelical repentance�, that is a lasting repentance which is for the right reasons, the nature of which he goes on to describe in subsequent verses.

2Co 7:10-11 for godly grief produces a repentance that leads to salvation without regret, whereas worldly grief produces death. (11) For see what earnestness this godly grief has produced in you, but also what eagerness to clear yourselves, what indignation, what fear, what longing, what zeal, what punishment! At every point you have proved yourselves innocent in the matter.


Paul now, after having established what true repentance is, grief borne from the working of the Holy Spirit, he now proceeds to describe what the nature of true repentance looks like. The apostle tells us that godly grief produces in the broader sense, repentance, or turning from sin, that leads to  that is, salvation. This contrast of true and false repentance is first put in the context of salvation versus death, speaking of our eternal state. It is in this context that true Christian repentance is explained. True Christian repentance is repentance without regret as the ESV states. Perhaps a better rendering of verse 10 might be this:

�For sorrow according to God accomplishes a reformation (or repentance) that saves and is irrevocable (without regret), but the grief of the world fashions (or brings) death.�

The true work of God, Paul says is one that does not bring regret, because it is not a false repentance. The apostle describes a repentance that is irrevocable because it is a God-given repentance and thus, we do not have to despair over it. The contrast with a worldly grief, that is a temporary turning from the sin, is in Paul�s understanding a matter of life and death. So true repentance then produces a desire, which may be evidenced visibly in the repentant believer. So as Paul begins his discourse in verse 11, we see the product, or fruit, of what God-given repentance brings.

Paul in verse eleven gives us seven marks of true repentance. Let�s consider each one in order:

1. Earnestness: Firstly and most generally, there is an earnest desire that becomes a Christian who is truly repentant. This σπουδή (spoude) signifies haste, or a speed that accompanies repentance. I believe that what Paul is trying to get across to his readers is that when the offending party encounters God-given repentance there is a haste or speedy desire to make things right. It is recognition that the offending party desire to make things right before God and his fellow man. Calvin notes in his commentary that this earnest desire �we may understand from what is opposed to it; for so long as there is no apprehension of sin, we lie drowsy and inactive. Hence drowsiness or carelessness, or unconcern, stands opposed to that earnest desire� � This earnestness then is tied to the desire to speedily remedy the wrong done by the sinner.

2. Eagerness: Secondly, there is an eagerness to clear yourself. Literally, to give an apology or defense. Calvin notes that rather than give a defense or excuse for the sin, the word �� (apologion) is used in the sense of asking pardon. The plea, or apology, then is not to excuse the sin, but rather to seek mercy and forgiveness from the one who has been offended . The idea is akin to coming and throwing yourself at the mercy of the court rather than giving a defense of your case to prove your innocence in the particular matter. This signifies a differentiation in attitudes. The person who has not truly been apprehended by God with true repentance seeks to justify or give reason for the sin committed, but the person truly gripped by a godly sorrow has a humble and contrite attitude. They do not seek to give an explanation for why they sinned so much as they seek mercy for their sin, recognizing that they are without excuse.


3. Indignation: This is indignation towards their sin and even against themselves. This is a righteous, godly indignation, which accompanied with the other evidences, does not lead to a morbid introspection, but rather an outcry against the sin committed. The sinner then seems angry at the sin and even at themselves for having engaged in it, knowing that there is only himself to blame for having engaged in that sin. This is more intense than sorrow Calvin says, because it has become the first step towards hating evil . Thomas Watson comments in his treatise on true repentance that our indignation and sorrow for our sin should be of the same measure as the sin committed . He notes that the failure to weep over our sin is directly connected to our view of the riches of Christ�s mercy and grace poured out upon us !

4. Fear: What alarm or terror Paul says was produced as a result of repentance. This alarm, this phobos), derives from a sense of divine judgment. This stems from the knowledge that at the last day, every man must give account for his own actions. Proverbs tells us that fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge.


5. Vehement desire: Paul accompanies fear with vehement desire, or longing. Whereas fear may stem from a natural inclination, according to Calvin, this longing is a more conscious desire rooted in the desire to not commit the sin anymore and thus risk God�s condemnation .

6. Zeal: Paul builds to a climax his exposition of the fruits of repentance. Building off the previous two fruits, fear and longing, Paul adds zeal which is a more intense form in this context of longing. This zeal stems from a desire to make things right as the offender desires to give evidence of his repentance.


7. Revenge: Paul finishes out his discourse on true repentance with revenge. ἐκδίκησις (ekdikesis) means vindication or retribution. True repentance then, also bears the mark of one who wants to vindicate themselves through the demonstration of their repentance. It may be that Paul here has in mind I Corinthians 11:31, where he tells them that if they would judge themselves, they would not be judged by the Lord. Paul here is telling us that if we would judge ourselves, then there would be no need to be chastened by the Lord. Private offenses, says Calvin, need not be handled publicly, but as in the case of the man who was openly sinning by sleeping with his father�s wife, there needed to be a public chastening and also a public repentance on the part of the Corinthians for their tolerance of such a sin .


In some instances, as evidenced in Paul�s description of our 7th point (Revenge), restitution may be in mind. For instance, if a man has taken the goods of another, he may seek to offer repayment for it. This must be a heartfelt restitution. In Luke 19:8, Zacchaeus offers to restore what he stole four-fold. This is a principle which was derived from Numbers 5:7. Important also to note is the fact that this idea was not limited to physical goods (land, money, goods), but extended to false accusations as well. Some sins though, may be so grievous that restitution may never be able to be provided. This must be kept in mind as we cannot separate the doctrine of repentance from Christ our great high priest. It is not possible for us to recompense God for sin against His Holy nature. So how is such a thing accomplished? It is only accomplished in the person and work of our savior, Jesus Christ. Christ has made restitution on our behalf before the Father. He has paid what no man can and has satisfied the righteous requirements of God�s law. Likewise, there may be instances where sin against our brother or sister is so great that restitution may not be possible. It is here also that the grace of God must cover our infirmities. Truthfully, the burden of this rests upon the offended party rather than the offender since it is the offended party who has to provide grace and mercy. Thomas Watson notes that the true child of God seeks the most to be revenged of the sins which have offended God the most . It may be that one of the best ways to avenge the sin is recompensing the one offended.


This may seem like a hard view of repentance, especially in light of the modern evangelical view of sin where grace is cheapened by a �soft repenting�, that is, a repenting that does little introspection does not search the heart and has a view that �God will just forgive whatever I do if I just ask�. Yet, we see David�s words in Psalm 51 regarding how we should view our own sin, where in verse 3, David says �my sin is ever before me�. David�s intent here is not that the threat of God�s judgment is ever before his eyes; rather it is the idea that our hearts should break because our own sin has grieved our comforter. David is saying �my sin is my own fault, and my own sin is before my face� In the Old Testament evidence of true repentance was shown outwardly through various means (shaving one�s head, weeping, sitting in ashes, and clothing one�s self in sackcloth), but in the New Testament Paul shows us a better way. Paul tells us in this passage 1) our repentance must be God-inspired in order to be genuine repentance 2) genuine repentance has genuine fruits 3) real repentance is not short-lived (as evidenced in the nature of the fruits it bears), hence the irrevocable nature of the salvation which leads to repentance.




Concluding remarks:


It is important to note that these outward manifestations are evidences of an inward work of the Holy Spirit, for without the Holy Spirit, no true repentance could take place. Paul saw the evidence of true repentance. Paul�s concluding remarks is that they �proved themselves innocent at every point�. This means that he was able to see the evidences of a true repentance in them as they were spurred on by their zeal to prove it. We see that such repentance is also profitable in that comfort is provided to the truly repentant. This is seen in Paul�s general manner towards the Corinthians as he seeks to encourage them as well as the tone of Paul�s words that Christ provides comfort to those who mourn, and even though their sin has caused them sorrow, their repentance if followed by encouragement from the comforter who brings peace in the midst of our turning.
There also appears to be a difference in humility versus humiliation in this passage. Paul sees their repentance and says in essence �it is enough�. He is not requiring them to go beyond the bounds of what Scripture requires. Paul�s primary concern is that their earnestness, their genuineness is seen by God. This is displayed in verse 12 where he says that he desires that they see their care for them is evident in the sight of God. One of the great treasures of the Gospel is that God grants pardon to us in Christ if we truly seek him in repentance. As the great work of the Holy Spirit grips us and takes hold, peace begins to reign in our life knowing, trusting, and resting in the knowledge that not only has Christ defeated death, but He has also defeated sin. It is a living in the midst of the already/not yet. Knowing that God has already justified us, he has already given His Son, our redemption has already been accomplished, His words of promise have already been written for our instruction, and yet, we still see through a glass darkly. We have not yet seen the fulfillment of the sanctifying work of the Spirit, Christ�s Kingdom has not yet been finally established; death while defeated has not yet been eradicated. It is the knowledge that we are living in the midst of redemptive history and God�s plans are being worked out in and through us, yes even in the midst of our sin, and His glory is displayed in our repentance.