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Originally Posted By: MelodyLane
Where's the BEEF??


GAAAAH, the BEEF! I know, I know - DH and I are MAJOR BEEF-ENATORS. However, beef in all of its red meat glory doesn't go well with high (read: HIGH) triglycerides and whatnot.

So we're experimenting with alternatives. Fish, more poultry, goat, bison... Bison's the definite winner so far as a substitute!


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Green leafies are high in Vitamin K. Vitamin K is used to synthesize clotting factors. Increased Vitamin K, increased clotting factors. Most blood thinners work by inhibiting clotting factors.

I had a resident who titrated his green leafies rather than his warfarin under the direction of his physician.

So, no. You don't have to avoid kale if you are on blood thinners. You also shouldn't have a green leafy binge. You should remain consistent in your vitamin K intake so you do not crash your INR values in either direction.

/soapbox


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Originally Posted By: HoldHerHand
So, no. You don't have to avoid kale if you are on blood thinners. You also shouldn't have a green leafy binge. You should remain consistent in your vitamin K intake so you do not crash your INR values in either direction./soapbox


Correct. Your hematologist's preference is that you enjoy precisely the same diet every day, at the same time.

Not usually possible. H does his best to avoid foods that are high in vitamin K because he still eats stuff that is medium K. He had super-steady INR tests for several months until recently. He's back on track as far as we can tell, but we'll need a few more tests to know for sure.

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Originally Posted By: Mrs_Vanilla
Originally Posted By: MelodyLane
Where's the BEEF??


GAAAAH, the BEEF! I know, I know - DH and I are MAJOR BEEF-ENATORS. However, beef in all of its red meat glory doesn't go well with high (read: HIGH) triglycerides and whatnot.


Actually, it helps your triglycerides. I brought my own down from 495 to 61 eating beef, eggs and cutting out junk food. Cutting out sugar worked wonders!


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Originally Posted By: HoldHerHand
Green leafies are high in Vitamin K. Vitamin K is used to synthesize clotting factors. Increased Vitamin K, increased clotting factors. Most blood thinners work by inhibiting clotting factors.

I had a resident who titrated his green leafies rather than his warfarin under the direction of his physician.

So, no. You don't have to avoid kale if you are on blood thinners. You also shouldn't have a green leafy binge. You should remain consistent in your vitamin K intake so you do not crash your INR values in either direction.

/soapbox


You know, I don't think we have ever heard this and he has been on blood thinners for 3 years now. crazy That makes me wonder what else we don't know. Thanks for the feedback!


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted By: curious53

I know I sound like a crazy lady right now, and I apologize for that, but this is a topic I take very seriously. Please research the medication your husband is on. Also, there are new medications coming out now that may not require the same dietary restrictions. Our goal is to transition to the new drug eventually -- not only because my husband won't have to avoid vitamin K, but because some of the other scary risks are lower.


Ohmigosh! I most certainly WILL research it. It never occurred to me that we didn't know everything about his drugs, but we know very little about this one. Thank you so much for posting this.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted By: MelodyLane
Originally Posted By: HoldHerHand
Green leafies are high in Vitamin K. Vitamin K is used to synthesize clotting factors. Increased Vitamin K, increased clotting factors. Most blood thinners work by inhibiting clotting factors.

I had a resident who titrated his green leafies rather than his warfarin under the direction of his physician.

So, no. You don't have to avoid kale if you are on blood thinners. You also shouldn't have a green leafy binge. You should remain consistent in your vitamin K intake so you do not crash your INR values in either direction.

/soapbox


You know, I don't think we have ever heard this and he has been on blood thinners for 3 years now. crazy That makes me wonder what else we don't know. Thanks for the feedback!


I'd like to have a few choice words with either his physician, or his physician's nurse...

doh2


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

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Originally Posted By: HoldHerHand

I'd like to have a few choice words with either his physician, or his physician's nurse...

doh2


You will die when I tell you what the doctor did tell him to eat everyday!! FRUIT!!! [my H is overweight and borderline diabetic crazy] So my DH eats FRUIT COCKTAIL every day. I told him that is not what his doctor meant and he looked at me seriously and said "fruit is fruit, Mel."

I will research this tonight. He has been on Plavix for 3 years and has not watched his diet at all.

HHH, are you a doctor?


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I'm glad you will.

As I said before, the subject is a real trigger for me. So I realize my response is a little out of proportion.

Now that I have my wits about me, I want to stress that my husband is a very happy, healthy man. He has a genetic mutation (Factor V Leiden) that requires him to take blood thinners. But he deals. He works, he takes care of me, he's a good husband. He has to follow a certain regimen to maintain the right level of blood slipperiness (not too much, not too little). And he does.

It's all good.

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Ok, we are safe! He eats none of these foods. There is no vitamin K in fruit cocktail! grin

His favorite vegetables are green beans and the occasional salad. [not with kale] He doesn't drink alcohol or coffee. We use pure coconut oil in our cooking.

How to Control Diet When Taking Blood Thinner

X eHow Health Editor
This article was created by a professional writer and edited by experienced copy editors, both qualified members of the Demand Media Studios community. All articles go through an editorial process that includes subject matter guidelines, plagiarism review, fact-checking, and other steps in an effort to provide reliable information.
By an eHow Contributor updated May 04, 2011

?
. Control Diet When Taking Blood Thinner When taking blood thinners for a heart condition, you must monitor the International Normalized Ratio (INR) and keep it within a certain clotting range. The amount of food you eat containing Vitamin K is the primary reason the INR fluctuates. Blood tests are required weekly to monthly, depending on test variations, and your medication dosage is adjusted accordingly. Keep a consistent diet to reduce the frequency of blood tests and medication dosage changes.

Difficulty:EasyInstructions

1
Limit your consumption of high Vitamin K vegetables to a few ounces per day. Vegetables that are highest in Vitamin K include spinach, kale, parsley, swiss chard, Brussels sprouts, lettuce, broccoli and turnip greens. If you want to eat larger amounts, be consistent day-to-day so that a consistent medication dosage can be established.

2
Select vegetables low in Vitamin K such as corn, carrots, cauliflower, eggplant, onions, green beans, peppers and tomato.

3
Eat other foods low in Vitamin K, including meats, fruits, grains and dairy.

4
Use oils that are low in Vitamin K such as corn oil, sunflower oil, peanut oil and sesame oil. Canola oil and soybean oil have the highest Vitamin K content.

5
Be aware of how caffeine or alcohol affects the INR test result.



Read more: How to Control Diet When Taking Blood Thinner | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/how_2146517_control-diet-taking-blood-thinner.html#ixzz1POgBKWKy


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Originally Posted By: MelodyLane
Originally Posted By: HoldHerHand

I'd like to have a few choice words with either his physician, or his physician's nurse...

doh2


You will die when I tell you what the doctor did tell him to eat everyday!! FRUIT!!! [my H is overweight and borderline diabetic crazy] So my DH eats FRUIT COCKTAIL every day. I told him that is not what his doctor meant and he looked at me seriously and said "fruit is fruit, Mel."

I will research this tonight. He has been on Plavix for 3 years and has not watched his diet at all.

HHH, are you a doctor?



Just a dirt-farming LPN with grandiose ambitions of practitioner (if you're reading Pep, I've really started to feel that is my calling).



If he is on warfarin, he should also be wary of cranberry products.


Aaaaand... fruit. Yeah. Fruit cocktail is kinda on the edge. Fresh fruit is where it's at, as the fiber content is the good portion - the skins on apples, peaches, pears, etc.

Last edited by HoldHerHand; 06/15/11 11:59 PM.

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Tonight's dinner: Kale Crostini. Fry up bacon, add garlic, mix in kale, add chicken broth, cook down, add goat cheese. Toast nice bread, rub with raw garlic, scoop kale mixture over it, drizzle olive oil if mixture is sort of dry.

Awesome.

Enjoyed with 2007 version of Beowulf. But I stopped watching when I realized I needed to go back and re-read the poem. I first read Beowulf in 9th grade. If your kids are reading it in school, I encourage you to watch this movie with them.

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Originally Posted By: curious53
I'm glad you will.

As I said before, the subject is a real trigger for me. So I realize my response is a little out of proportion.


No wonder you have a strong reaction, with good reason. How tragic that your FIL passed away over something that might have been prevented.

My H is on blood thinners because of a heart attack 3 years ago. Initially he was told he would have to take them for 6 months but they have kept him on them.


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Plavix is not as scary as the drug my husband is on (Coumadin). It used to be sold as rat poison.

He had suffered blood clots in his legs for years. Then 2 years ago he had blood clots in his lungs (very scary). We eventually figured out he had had blood clots in his lungs on other occasions in the past, but they had been misdiagnosed.

Last edited by curious53; 06/15/11 08:22 PM.
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Originally Posted By: HoldHerHand

If he is on warfarin, he should also be wary of cranberry products.


He is on Plavix, but fortunately, he would never touch a cranberry.

Quote:
Aaaaand... fruit. Yeah. Fruit cocktail is kinda on the edge. Fresh fruit is where it's at, as the fiber content is the good portion - the skins on apples, peaches, pears, etc.


Fruit is fruit, HHH! laugh


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Originally Posted By: curious53
Plavix is not as scary as the drug my husband is on (Coumadin). It used to be sold as rat poison.

He had suffered blood clots in his legs for years. Then 2 years ago he had blood clots in his lungs (very scary). We eventually figured out he had had blood clots in his lungs on other occasions in the past, but they had been misdiagnosed.


Generic name warfarin.

One of the guys I work with has some horror stories about warfarin mismanagement. It's definitely not to be taken lightly.


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Originally Posted By: HoldHerHand
Even as an LPN, though, we need to be up on our medications, as the Docs can be a little... dumb?.. sometimes.


TJ: I find this statement rude and in poor taste. /TJ


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Originally Posted By: MelodyLane
Originally Posted By: Mrs_Vanilla
Originally Posted By: MelodyLane
Where's the BEEF??


GAAAAH, the BEEF! I know, I know - DH and I are MAJOR BEEF-ENATORS. However, beef in all of its red meat glory doesn't go well with high (read: HIGH) triglycerides and whatnot.


Actually, it helps your triglycerides. I brought my own down from 495 to 61 eating beef, eggs and cutting out junk food. Cutting out sugar worked wonders!


I feel foolish - I see how sugar plays an important role re: triglycerides! I thought beef was a contributing factor, too, though - animal fat and dietary cholesterol and all of that?

Our household is worried about familial HIGH triglycerides, as well as okay (not great) HDL and LDL levels. Doc's rec was to cut red meat, overall healthy diet (fruits and veggies), etc.

Hmmm...


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Originally Posted By: Mrs_Vanilla
[
I feel foolish - I see how sugar plays an important role re: triglycerides! I thought beef was a contributing factor, too, though - animal fat and dietary cholesterol and all of that?

Our household is worried about familial HIGH triglycerides, as well as okay (not great) HDL and LDL levels. Doc's rec was to cut red meat, overall healthy diet (fruits and veggies), etc.

Hmmm...


Red meat does not cause high triglycerides or high cholesterol. Unfortunately, most doctors don't study nutrition. My HDL is the highest my doc has seen in his entire career at 103, I have a great lipid profile and I eat tons of beef - and EGGS. Cut out junk food and you will notice a dramatic difference in your trigs fairly quickly. By junk food, I mean sugar, refined flour, starchy veggies, etc. You will see a big difference! If you want to read a really good book about it, check out Good Calories, Bad Calories by Gary Taubes. It is a well researched, well documented book on nutrition. One of the very best I have ever read.


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Originally Posted By: Mrs_Vanilla
Originally Posted By: HoldHerHand
Even as an LPN, though, we need to be up on our medications, as the Docs can be a little... dumb?.. sometimes.


TJ: I find this statement rude and in poor taste. /TJ


Point taken. Comment removed.


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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