Thanks CP

Stretch - ever brew any beer? LOL

I just sell it.

What a coincidence, Stretch. I just drink it!

Stretch - LOL - You sell the ingredients and equipment or the finished product? Consuming one of my own right now. Hmmm...much better and much, much cheaper than what they charge around these parts. LOL

Update:

I spent the week on a youth group mission trip with my DS-13 and 30 junior high aged kids. My wife first asked me about going in mid-march. I couldn't even stand to be away from my WW at that time for half a day. I wasn't emotionally stable to even think about going on a trip for a week.

At one of the first parent meetings in April the youth minister made plea for one more male leader. A Dad, an uncle, a granpda... anybody. I told her to keep on asking me and I was a "maybe." Give me some space to decide.

Through the deciding, my WW was confused and assumptive about my feelings. Bad communication.

She told me:
--"I was pretty sure you were adament 'NO' about going..."
--"It was independant behavior to talk to the youth minister about 'maybe' going after you and I talked. I thought you were an adament 'NO'"
--"You are afraid that wife will be fine while you're gone and maybe I will like not having you around."

I never felt any of those things. I am struggling with how much she uses a filter and assumes what I think, what my motivations are.

The truth is, since we first talked about this trip in mid-march which was just about 6 weeks post Exposure and D-Day a lot has happened.

--I stopped crying every day
--I started getting tons of exercise
--She emailed OM and made one-way Contact
--I had a sudden sense of clarity going through that Contact episode with the MC.
--I realized I don't care if I go away for a week and she decides its lovely when I am gone.
--I realized I will be okay if she decides to quit and leave. Maybe she wiil.
--She put her ring back on her finger
--I realized I truly am making all these Stretch 2.0 changes for myself.
--I am thinking so much clearer. Not blaming myself. Able to see the foggy fogbabble and not get upset.
--Maintaining a quiet confidence.

So I really, really enjoyed investing a week in our Church's youth. Great program through YouthWorks. Great group of jr high kids. I was really impressed and very moved.

My wife was pleased as well. FC is her #1 EN. She was so happy about our trip. We texted and talked constantly about what we were doing.

And we had a great homecoming last night. Lots of talking, sharing, and a reconnecting.

She seems like a different person the past few weeks. She hasn't been constantly outwardly angry at me and disconnected. She seems more honest about her confusion and depression. The fogbabble was hard because its like the WW believes adamantly that they have it all figured out. But what they have is a deranged, twisted story to help them explain the immorality to themselves. She seems to be working through this mess with less defensiveness and more honestly, generosity and love.

Now, she goes away on Tuesday for a week long conference.

Right now, I think we need a plan to make a "PLAN" for ensuring we are truly on a recovery path.

Stretch - Sounds like you guys are doing great! Wishing you all the best. You're well on your way.

Stretch (and guys),

My SIL owns a microbrewery. Most of the men I know have told me that they believe this would be the most perfect SIL on the face of the earth


On another note, Stretch,
One of the things I told my husband during his stupid phase addressed his tendency to have his "affair filter" on. He was very much like your wife, with talking about his "knowing" what I really meant, what I was thinking, and what I was feeling. At one point, he "corrected" me, and said, "What you think is this...."

I told him:


"I AM THE WORLD'S SINGULAR EXPERT ON WHAT I THINK."


After that, he realized that he was indeed putting his little spin on my stuff, so he could live with his stuff.


He quit "correcting" me. Hasn't done it again!


SB

Stretch, give yourself some real credit. You and me and all the other guys who stood and fought. Some of us won, are going to win, lost or are going to lose.

Its taken more than any of us thought we had deep down. And no disrespect to anybody, but sometimes I think its easier when they -WW- do leave. If she does you are just fixing you. Not us.

So you keeping breathing, keep fighting. Know that you WILL be alright in this. You're an example for any man.

Reynolds - Great post! In a sense you're right - when WS are done - there's a valley of death and tears to walk through of course - but once you get to the other side, you have an opportunity for a fresh start. There are no affair relationship issues to haunt any new relationship; you're not looking over your shoulder for an AP. I don't think that's disrespectful at all. However, I gotta tell you, I'm still in a place where I want my WW back, as strange as that sounds. All the hurt, the betrayal, the lies and I still want to try and rebuild my marriage. I think that shows the power of love or how stupid I am - one or the other.

You guys keep fighting for your M - it gives the rest of us hope that there's a light at the end of the tunnel (just hope it's not the train's headlight).

PS: What sucks in my case, and the thought has crossed my mind more than once, if the D comes to pass I'll be 46 years old and dipping my toes in the dating pool. Yikes!

Andy still wanting her back is noble not stupid. And to be 46 and dating again? No problem. Women can sense the qualities that brought you here, made you fight, made you strong. Made you a good dad. You best get yourself a smartphone with a good calendar my friend. Your schedules going to be full if it comes to that.

I say that train better hope thats not us at the end of the tunnel...

Reynolds - thanks for the vote of confidence! Not sure I deserve it, the way I'm feeling right now. All part of the bloody 'coaster.

Hey I said on day one before Marriagebuilders or anything else.

#1 This is the worst thing that ever happened to me.
#2 In eighteen months - one way or the other this is behind me.

Pretty zen for a guy who was just blindsided and watched his whole life ignite.

Andy,
Dating will not be all that scary for you. You are the kind of man that is going to thrive.

I believe I would too. A few months ago I would cry and hyperventilate in anguish at the mere thought. But not anymore. Sure, it would be hard with 4 kids and a needy ex-wife. But I am really learning who I am, who I want to be, what I need/want in a lifge partner, and what I have to offer to women, families, my children, other children (like at the church or at scouts... I could do that for step children too.)

But none of that has to happen. I have fought for our marriage and our family --- and I still believe this may turn out better than ever.

Just not sure if we are 100pct on a Recovery path or if we have a full plan or if we've missed important steps. I'm the kind of guy that feels a need to review what we've been through and feel closed. Some of the important steps happened during gut wrenching emotionally turmultuos days and weeks.

Good stuff on this thread guys. hes right BTW, women care more about character and confidance than anything else, and those just happen to be the things that provide the roof also. Andy will be busy..

I allways wanted to read Zen and the motorcycle mechanic, IDK why, just do.

stretch I understand the 'assumption' dilema. I look at it like Ralph Cramden thinks, "I know that you know that I know that..."

Its part of letting the past die and trust to come in..

I like SBs comment about the "affair filter" also, and wondering if, in the years that I was trying to get W to think about something a different way, and stating stuff to be some kind of backhanded example, was what they call "Passive Agressive".? If it was, then I can understand why its so destructive, because I allways hated myself when I did it.

But people get really frustrated about things that are important that they feel thier mate should find important too, and when simple honesty doesnt get a result, or the other partner doesn't care what you think, we tend to try to bring them around with different point of veiws, to our convictions.

Do we have a list of joint needs, important issues, and do we agree on the priorities? Do/did we discuss them and agree we would follow the list, and then when times are hard, time is short, or moods are influencing either of us,(bad day, sick,), then we agree to "not sweat the small stuff". Its on the list we go over weekly and tweak IF nessesary, but we have agreed to go over everything at least once a week thouroghly, so we know we can bring up small issues then.

Another help in handeling conflict is this. Something really makes one of you angry, and you are afraid to talk about it right now because you are over amped, but you must do SOMETHING about it. You bring it to the other person, and agree that you will talk about it at a specified time soon, but need to calm down and now is not the right time. If you both agree to that, you would be amazed at how many times the angry wasteful words you spout out of fear, will be turned into reasoning power, that you can use to work it out at the appointed time.

I tell this to my children, "Don't let the sun go down on your wrath", is an important tool for your emotional health. If you at least say "I am upset about so-n-so and want to think about it and talk tomorrow, and you both KNOW you WILL, it is a very comforting way to know each others needs are a concern to both of you.

My daughter said when she tried this she found she was not upset the next day, so she did not bring it up at all, because she felt she was overemotional at the time. I said no no, you at least have to explain this so your H understands you are OK now, and so he can comfort you for something that yes, happened in the past, because he cares about you.

But the filters we are discussing, are formed in time to the same filters, as we respect who each other is, and appreciate that also. Constant communication, of a radically honest and deeply personal nature should be nurtured and in time with dedication from both parties we will be able to filter what we are going to say, or not need one, because we are in agreement.

Hang in there stretch.

Insightful as always.

Especially: "Constant communication of a radically honest and deeply personal nature should be nurtured."

yeah its funny how when we are 25, as men SF is right up there in the most important emotional needs, but as we get older, our needs shift.

With woman this is just the same, we don't stay stagnant as we grow, nobody does

To me they are all important, but the needs of both together as a unique couple now have to be recognized if we expect trust and satisfaction to happen and strengthen us.

As an axample:
My wife has listed RC as #9. That being said, she also mentioned how she remembered me as being really fun and the life of the group back when she first met me. And she remembers that we used to have lots of fun together. Then, after marriage, I got all serious.

Familiar story....

But the point is... even EN #9 and #10 are important. And they can shift with time. Just as you say.

Old humorous observation:

The problem with modern marriages is that women marry men hoping they can change them, and they can't,
and men marry women hoping they'll stay the same forever, and they change.

No wonder there's so many correspondents on this site!

I'm not trying to make light of the struggle we're all going through. I just would hope that we can "get the word out" to couples not yet in our situations that marriages are less a recitation of a constant scene from our life-plays, than an ad-libbed performance by a duo, each reacting to feedback from the other, in a real-life improv performance.