Do you know about POJA, rvm? POJA is a much better idea than compromise - with compromises someone (usually both) always ends up miserable. With POJA you have to both be happy with the decision for it to be ok'd. (See basic concepts)

(Your wife going out so much would not be POJA'd, because it makes you unhappy. Ditto if you tried to do the same to her)

However your EPs are not POJA'd, they are fixed in stone and non negotiable. They will keep you safe. They cannot be negotiated any more than your need for oxygen.

If you are with someone who objects to your need for being safe, you are in for death by a thousand cuts.

A truly repentent WS wouldn't mind them at all. You are a reasonable person. Look at the list of the five EPs Mel has spelled out.

If you had cheated and knew that keeping these EPs would get you a great marriage in spite of all you'd done, would YOU agree to them?

Btw, you would also be agreeing to the same EPs as her (so you couldnt have a female friend she disapproved of) so you would not have an unfair level of control.

She needs to get serious and show care for your feelings

Dude, I would slap a keylogger on any PC to which she has access, as well as her cellphones, get her billing records, her credit card records, and stick a GPS tracker in her car. If she hasn't come verifiably clean about whom she used the booty-phone to talk with, then that right there is a red-flag indication that she's not sincerely willing to change.

The snooping is going to be harder for you to do if you are not living together. If I were you, I would seriously consider at least consulting with a professional PI. Yeah, they cost some, but divorce lawyers' retainers cost lots more.

Being used is how I have felt for a very long time. I mean granted, I knew I was marrying someone who is still finishing school and never had a problem with it. I knew what that entailed and was happy to be the sole provider until she finishes her degree. But when she recklessly pushed only her own agenda, putting her wants ahead of me, our family, it made me question how important was I to her. Did she really care? or was she just comfortable...

"without your child" - we've had talks in the past where we both came to the conclusion that I would be the better parent for our son. I even offered to take full responsibility for our son and she can go live her life. Yet she stated that no matter what, she will never give up custody. Knowing my priorities are family and most importantly my son, she has used that button to push on my weakness.

You are absolutely right about the word "controlling" being thrown out there way too often. I have definitely been on the hook way too long.

I am still fairly new to the site but have come across that term and most definitely agree with it. I for one gave up anything that has or might have made her uncomfortable. When she started to question me working a bit late, I simply started to come in a little early so that I can leave on time. I was ready to correct anything that might have bothered her and even took precautionary measures. I stand strong by the rational of, "how would I feel if she did this to me".


Have you ever met a person who had such pride that they couldn't allow themselves to apologize in any instance? I've felt on more then one occasion that there isn't any true repentance. She's more mad about my jealousy, my snooping and getting caught then about what was done.


I've given this SOOOO much thought... If this was me, I wouldn't think twice about it. I would jump right on it and do what's necessary and what's right, to fix the marriage. Then again, this IS what I want and wanted when i said "I do". She on the other hand, told me in the past that prior to marriage she really didn't fully understand what was involved and expected from a wife.

I have put some techie stuff on the computer, which came up with just laughs, giggles and school related work. I have looked at billing records, CC records - nothing stood out. The phone which she tossed is a huge mystery till this day. I mean when I asked, she said she used it to talk to her guy friends from school, didn't want to get into a fight with me. We always had a family plan and both agreed a long time ago that either one of us can feel free to look at the phone bill.

In regards to hiring a PI. What exactly am I trying to accomplish here? I mean even with the tossed phone, the actual phone itself was enough for me to understand that yet again, she did NOT choose me and the family but something/one else.

There is such an incredible amount of material on this site, so much that can be applied. Yet, I still can not even get passed the thought, if she truly wants to be with me or not. For her feelings, for her love, our son - not for the damn convenience.

Of course this bothers you. It bothers all us BSs who are left on the backburner. Waywards are horrible people while they are actively wayward and they love no-one. They think only of themselves and what they can get from people.

The only way she will ever show love is if she manages to free herself from the affair (affairs make people foggy and selfish) shows true repentance and care for you by aggreeing to EPs.

You are not there yet. You need to find the affair before you can kill it.

You have to do this for your son, so put the other stuff aside for now.

Don't fight with her or do anything to rouse her suspicions. Be Mr Wonderful.

I would Plan A her while you snoop - can you get a PI? Might be best if you live apart.

The 'convenience' of what you do for her is what will help you kill the A in Plan B, should you choose Plan B later on. Wayward wives think they want OM and his admiration and his nonsense conversation, but when the support of a loving husband is withdrawn they see very clearly who meets their needs best.

For all of you who read and commented on my original post - thank you. The advice helped me hold myself together and have some kind of plan. This week, I find myself completely lost yet again.

We have been separated since June, with me staying at my parent's home, and she stayed at our old rented apartment. Both of our parents are very much involved, not because of the situation, but that's just the close relationship we all have. After reading @MelodyLane's recommended steps, we discussed them and mutually agreed to decide by October 1 if we both wish to make it work. I also purchased two copies of His Needs, Her Needs and ask that she finish it by that time as well.

From time to time, I would ask what she thinks, what direction does she feel she's moving towards, and would always hear "Not sure, Don't Know Yet, etc..." At the same time, Her parents would ask bits and pieces as well, she would tell them "Of course I want to. I'll do everything I can, etc...." The parents started to think that I'm no longer interested, until I explained what she's been telling me. Now we're both (her parents and me) are lost..

Since our discussion a few things happened/surfaced, which to me are stronger then any words/promises.

1) Since she is finishing up her last year in school, and I refused to pay for her bills, she got a part-time job, conveniently (in my eyes), working at a lounge. I told her right away that I don't approve of her choice, considering the issues we were having. Both our parents said, "Good, let her do some hard labor, feel reality a bit." My parents also told me, that if she really wants to continue her old ways, she'll manage regardless of where she works.

2) Last week, I accidentally opened an email containing pictures from her work. The ones that stood out: a) Her setting at the bar talking to a guy 2) Four girls (including her), dancing "on top" of the bar. 3) Her dancing alone on the dance floor. Without justifying myself, I txted her and said I want nothing to do with her. I asked her grandmother for advice, who has our family's best interest at hand, not her agenda. Grandmother went over to talk to her, without revealing the photos she saw. At one point, wife voluntarily mentions the photos and shows them to her explaining that it was a birthday party, the place was closed down and that all the guests are ppl who work there.

3) Last night, while using a recover program. I uncovered another email address, which she has been using for over a year. The emails were deleted, but shows one email address in contacts. The history from (2010) shows searches for love poems, long distance relationships, missing you poems, etc... The spam folder had newsletters for tracfone, so I know this is where her mystery phone was registered to, and also fandango, a moving purchase for 2 Adults in August 5.


Now my mind is ALL over the place. The conversation with her grandmother, who is a very "know your facts, before making assumptions" kind of woman, didn't really help. Her opinion is that she is wrong for dancing at her work, but it doesn't mean adultery. Wife told her she will still do everything she can to make it work and plans to have a conversation with me by Oct 1. I have not revealed my last finding (3) to anyone. I'm just torn apart and don't know how to best make my next move.

rvm, please stick to your original thread. Setting up a new thread makes it hard for the posters to know your background.

I went back and found your thread and re-read it. Question:
What have YOU done since she moved out? Okay, she's got a job. What have YOU done? Have you snooped? Hired a PI? Anything?

ETA: Please click the Notify button and ask the moderators to combine this post with your original thread. There is valuable information in it that the posters should know.

Nothing in my life really changed. I still work my 9-6, spend my weekends with our son. I did sign up for some online courses to finish up a degree which I never found the time to do previously.

I haven't hired a PI, but have done snooping, phone/cc bill, email, etc... - which is how I uncovered the things I have.

If you can afford it, get a PI. That can help fill in the gaps as to what evidence you may not have. They can follow where you can't.

Affording it would be a stretch, but I can probably do it. But what am I trying to accomplish here? More dirt then I already have?

I'm dealing with a person who is lieying, downplaying everything, telling her parents one story, me another.

Does anyone have a recommendation in regard to my last findings and chain of events which took place? (Post Link)

Dont know who else to turn to...

Im not a vet, RM, but i think you need to know the extent of her A's and to then expose them, because she is the mother of your child.

For all you know shes hanging out with people that no judge would allow near a child.

I think a PI could well be in order.

Then expose so hopefuly her parents can either knock some sense into her at least make things difficult for her.

Please correct me if I'm wrong but it seems most plans on this site focus to restore an A which was a slip up, out of character act..etc..

Based on the chain of behavior from the very beginning, I'm stuck wondering if she ever loved me at all? Or was she just comfortable... Most are putting plans together to restore love, I don't know if there was any to begin with on her part...

I am definitely considering getting a PI. @indiegirl, you mentioned the judge. Will the documented (PI) behavior help me at all when/if time comes for the custody?

A PI can help you establish adultery.

There's tons of things that go into custody hearings. The best defense you can have is to be the best dad you can be and make the kids your priority.

You need to educate yourself fast. Get a book called Father's Rights and another one called Custody for Fathers.

A good outcome for a man is 50/50 or shared physical custody.

Courts were once very mom biased, but that has changed a lot in recent years.

Document all the time you spend with the kids. She can't claim you're a bad father when she leaves the kids in your care regularly.

Yes we all think that!! Did they ever love me....I would say follow the plans, because they give her a chance to experience consequences for her actions for the first time ever. If she chooses to grow up and follow your conditions, then great. If she doenst you get out of an unwinnable situation.

The plans also give you the best shot at personal recovery. I am in Plan B and I feel much better than I did before, I am strong and can face either outcome now.

As to the legal sitch, I am in the UK and dont have kids, I was only going by stories I have read on here.

I would however say that knowledge is always power and that you should probably get the best legal advice you can, ASAP.

RMV,

Based on Dr. Harley's 40 years of experience, SAA, and thousands of radio archives ...

Here are the facts about Waywards, Affairs, and how they work.
1) Most waywards are content and happy in their pre-Affair marriages. Yes there are issues of needs not being met, but the greatest factor for the affair is the lack of boundaries. Once the boundary is lowered and the opposite sex comes in to fill the EN's you have the beginning of an affair.

2) Once the EN's start filling up in the wayward, they begin with the contrast effect. The Affair partner begins to look great and the spouse begins to look awful ... this begins the threshold for Romantic love.

a) I haven't been happy for years ... because these new addictive feelings are so great and over power the wayward's previous threshold of happiness. Of course they now see their previous threshold of happiness was much lower because that long term committment cannot and WILL NEVER beable to sustain the level of chemicals in the brain caused by new romantic love.

b) I wish I never married you, and I wanted to leave you for years ... Again the same addictive pattern applies here based on the waywards "Happiness Threshold". The new AP looks 1000x better at the moment than the Spouse, so this is when the next phase happens in the affair. This is when the Approach/Avoidance Conflict begins within the wayward and ULTIMATELY this begins the path of lies and deciet.

My thought is she is highly addicted to the fun of being so young, and is now questioning the choices she made. She sees OM and partying as fun. What she is failing to realize in her addictive state is this is only a temporary fix. Her HIGH from this affair cannot sustain itself because the maturity level of the OM is very questionable.

The best thing you can do is EXPOSE this affair wide and far to kill it. It is the only way to start to kill the HIGH. You are bringing in spectators to watch her take hits off her crack (OM), and what fun is that?

To better your chances in an eventual custody case, isn't it better to move to into your joined home again and move from there? Because is is your home too, you can just walk in and say something like "Honey, I'm home!"
Then, you wouldn't be in the position, that you left your family.
Also, you might be able to have more opportunity to plan A and you can also snoop better if you are actually there. If she had a GPS in her car, than you would know where she is.

The problem is, that in the media, jealousy is seen as a bad thing and as insecurity. Independency is highly valued, especially for young women, who should not be willing to be controlled by their partners. These assumptions and the notion that you should have the right to have opposite sex friends are toxic to many relationships.
She is young and probably has the notion that she is missing out on things with you and child, and feels free with the other man.

God bless,

Happyheart