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Yes here are some clips of Dr. Harley talking about it.
Radio clip on flooding

Radio clip on flooding


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Originally Posted By: princessmeggy
Yes and that is normal.what to do about it? Reclaim that day as your special day. Plan something special, buy a gift and have up it engraved with something like, August 10, the date we reclaim our marriage and wipe the slate clean. May ever August 10th find us stronger and more in love than the previous year. Or something really special and meaningful to you. Take it back as a day do renewal and recommitment.
Thanks for the great Idea princess m.! I had a heart shaped necklace engraved on the front with the words " love God More" and on the back 08/10/11 and the Latin phrase " you saved my day"
We have decided that this day was not going to be the worst day of our lives any more but the beginning of all the rest of our great days.


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My Fww was sitting beside me this Sunday evening and pulled up the MB site and asked me where I was posting. She told me that she has been reading the post of others dance2I am going to try to get her to start her own thread.
I made it through D-day with no melt downs. All of the advice you guys gave me was so helpful. I was so focused on the details of the date we had planned I did not have time to wander down the dark road in my mind.
I made it as special as I could for her and think she and I both will have fond memory's of this date from here on. For fun I had the restaurant owner write her a note on their special's board for her to see as we got to the front door. When she saw her name and the question it asked her she was very pleased.
Hope is what I was looking for when I found MB. Help with my pain, guidance for my panic is what caused me to post. I found all three here.
Now that the FWW is here also the hope part is really bright!
God is so good, all the time!


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Originally Posted By: BrainHurts
Yes here are some clips of Dr. Harley talking about it.
Radio clip on flooding

Radio clip on flooding
That second clip was spot on for me and will ask FWW to listen also, Thanks BH


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Congrats on the special day. Tell her we would love for her to join the MB family.


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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I'm so glad, WLE, that the day turned out so special for the both of you! The necklace sounds absolutely perfect - great job on that!!!

WLE-Wife - we would very much like you to be part of the MB family! smile

Awesome job to both of you for following the narrow path of recovery. It's worth it.


"The #1 reason why people give up so quickly is because they tend to look at how far they still have to go, rather than how far they've gotten."

Me, FBW(46) H, FWH (43)
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D (20)
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I shudder to think what might have happened if I had not stumbled on to MB while in my blind panic.
I give God the praise for that!
The article I found at the beginning was "Why women leave men" (To much of a novice to link to it, sorry)This article not only opened my eyes to what I was not doing for my W but more importantly introduced me to the MB concepts.
By the time I discovered the A I was able to apply plan A instead of running into a wall repeatedly out of desperation and despair.OK, first the wall for a few days then the plan.
It works people!
FWW was on egg shells waiting for me to yell and scream at her after confronting and exposing her A for several days afterwards. I have to admit I blistered her when I wrote in my journal but held my tongue in the hope of a future recovery.
Once she was able to see that I was willing to meet all of her most important EN she started to come back.
We are learning as we go down this road to recovery that there are off-ramps,pot holes and even speed bumps that must be avoided.
It truly is a narrow path.


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You're right, WLE, it IS a narrow path - but one that is well worth it. Having a plan makes ALL the difference in the world.

You know, I'm not even sure how it is that I came to find the MB site myself, but I don't think it's any accident that I did! smile


"The #1 reason why people give up so quickly is because they tend to look at how far they still have to go, rather than how far they've gotten."

Me, FBW(46) H, FWH (43)
M - 21 yrs & counting
D (20)
S (18)
S (16)
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My Recovery Thread: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538986#Post2538986
My Original Thread: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457141&page=1

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Have been soaking up the responses to other people in recovery and have been taking notes for our MR.
Have not found an answer to what is bothering me now.
I know that there is a fine line between leading and pulling.
To lead my FWW she has to want to follow, and thankfully she does! But at her own pace or it becomes pulling.
I am also learning to avoid LB's when we talk about our plan.The DJ's are always waiting to slip out if I am not careful."I think you..." or " You need to..."
FWW is still in IC and has been reading here on MB. I want her to talk to her about what she is learning, I need to. I did not understand this need until I realized how excited I got when ever she would talk to me about it or I would see her activity working on the MB R plan we are on.
Am I off base here?
I guess what I am really seeking is affirmation. When I can see or hear her actually working on some aspect of our R I feel loved. Maybe even safe?
After learning from her about all the effort she had to put into having her A and keeping it a secret. It is reassuring to me on a deep, deep level that I am worth at least as much effort if not more to her now and that she is willing to make it.
FWW tells me everyday she loves me, she tells me how happy I make her now. Since our day starts at 5:15 am we are in bed by 9pm on a good day, on a very good day 7 wink
What EN is lacking here?
Has anybody felt this way and how did you handle it?


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wle2, it is reassuring when you see your spouse working on the marriage. Have you read the posts to 20yearhistory about UA time and its critical importance to recovery? Following the policy of UA will motivate your wife even more and create an intimacy and interdependency that is essential to romance.

If you read the posts of us that are fully recovered, we ALL attest to the importance of getting 15+ hours of UA time. Dr Harley says this program doesn't work without that step and I have found that to be true.

Are you familiar with this policy?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted By: wle2
Have been soaking up the responses to other people in recovery and have been taking notes for our MR.
Have not found an answer to what is bothering me now.
I know that there is a fine line between leading and pulling.
To lead my FWW she has to want to follow, and thankfully she does! But at her own pace or it becomes pulling.
I am also learning to avoid LB's when we talk about our plan.The DJ's are always waiting to slip out if I am not careful."I think you..." or " You need to..."
FWW is still in IC and has been reading here on MB. I want her to talk to her about what she is learning, I need to. I did not understand this need until I realized how excited I got when ever she would talk to me about it or I would see her activity working on the MB R plan we are on.
Am I off base here?
I guess what I am really seeking is affirmation. When I can see or hear her actually working on some aspect of our R I feel loved. Maybe even safe?
After learning from her about all the effort she had to put into having her A and keeping it a secret. It is reassuring to me on a deep, deep level that I am worth at least as much effort if not more to her now and that she is willing to make it.
FWW tells me everyday she loves me, she tells me how happy I make her now. Since our day starts at 5:15 am we are in bed by 9pm on a good day, on a very good day 7 wink
What EN is lacking here?
Has anybody felt this way and how did you handle it?




All of this is ABSOLUTELY normal, WLE! You and the Mrs. are doing a GREAT job.

I think at times we get a little head of ourselves: that if only we do everything right, we can get through the whole pain of what happened more quickly. It just doesn't work that way. I have a habit of telling people to remember that you must go THROUGH this, not around. So, regardless of how well you do in recovery, you are still a human, not a robot - you're going to have feelings that are repercussions of the infidelity. Sometimes those manifest in sadness, sometimes in anger, and sometimes just general "feeling bothered" and can't put your finger on it. It's normal.

In my case, I felt a sense of "high" when H and I were first in recovery. Working on our marriage like we hadn't done in years brought this feeling of euphoria. Like you (and every other FBS I know) I wanted to know my H was giving as much effort to us that he had to the A. That's easy to see in the beginning but harder as all of this becomes the new normal.

Your exceptional marriage can never be compared to the A. It is a totally different animal. It is built on a foundation that is genuine and lasting, not fake puffs of smoke. So, try not to compare your wife's efforts in the A to what she is doing as a wife as long as she's doing the work and keeping those EPs in place. Which, it sounds like she is.

It's perfectly normal that you feel safe when she's doing the work, and need that affirmation. That will continue to be the case for awhile, I imagine. I still need that and we are nearing the 2 year mark in November. I hope you have voiced this need to her.

Are you pulling or leading? It sounds like you are wanting your wife to make a little more effort. Can you be a little more specific about that? You are wise to watch your wording in the "I think you; You need to..." department. Something I've learned is to always make "I" statements and not "You" statements. In fact, on another thread they mention 3 key "I" statements that are fabulous! The proper wording can make all the difference because it's about what you need, not what you are demanding of her. (See next post with some good conversation techniques recommended by Dr. H's daughter, Jennifer Chalmers.)

Without more specifics it's hard to know if she needs to step it up a little or if you just need to be patient. You are not off base at all - just need to pinpoint what needs to happen from here. How much UA time are you all getting? Typically if you get that "bothered" feeling it tends to be that either A: it's not been quite enough or B: a little more and the "bothered" goes away.

Sidenote: I'm curious as to the IC your wife is receiving - why - and how that is going.





"The #1 reason why people give up so quickly is because they tend to look at how far they still have to go, rather than how far they've gotten."

Me, FBW(46) H, FWH (43)
M - 21 yrs & counting
D (20)
S (18)
S (16)
Surviving and Thriving since November 2010 thanks to MB!
My Recovery Thread: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538986#Post2538986
My Original Thread: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457141&page=1

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I'm not the greatest at bringing posts over from other threads. This was on 20Years thread, talking about the BH having to lead recovery, etc... BrainHurts commented and Doormat_No_More replied. His reply has the statements I referred to above. I think you'll benefit from the whole post!


Posted By: BrainHurts
It is frustrating when the BS seems to have to do a lot of the heavy lifting in recovery.


This is Door's Reply:
And yet, it's the most common situation, particularly when the betrayed is male.

Something that really helps us get through the tougher times is to have "something to look forward to". We try to always make sure we're planning some fun family outing, vacation, time away, whatever. Right now, we're planning a trip for a Shakespeare Festival with the family and a tour of Europe starting with ten days in Amsterdam, followed by backpacking for the next week across some tourist spot (just wife & I on that one, no kids). By and large, these aren't "budget-busting" kinds of activities; we plan them VERY cheap, taking advantage of every loophole to keep expenses down.

Part of the learning process is learning what kinds of things your spouse wants or does not want communicated. For instance, we agreed to share everything as well, but my wife is really not interested in my weird habit of timing how long it takes for me to digest things by evaluating the content of my stools, and reporting the results smile So there's a line you don't want to cross, you know? But you have to tell your spouse in the first place to know where that line is, or what kinds of things he/she does not want to know about.

Jennifer Harley Chalmers taught us a few techniques that have helped us HUGELY with our messaging.

"I love it when" statements are for when you want to reinforce a behavior that deposits Love Units. For instance, "I love it when you discuss your conversations during the day with me that night," or "I love it when I get home from long day at work and there's a meal waiting for me," or "I love it when you wake me up in the middle of the night for ((explicit description deleted))."

"I'd love it if" statements are for when you want to gently remind your spouse not to Love Bust. "I'd love it if you would close the shower curtain after you shower," "I'd love it if you'd text me when you're stressed out so that I can help," or "I'd love it if we could use some lube next time we do that."

"I'd like to brainstorm" statements are for when you know that if you used one of the above statements it would be a demand. "I'd like to brainstorm about how to get the lawn cleaned up this week," "I'd like to brainstorm about ways to help us keep in closer touch with one another throughout the day," or "I'd like to brainstorm ways to avoid chafing in uncomfortable areas when we do that thing we did in the middle of the night last night."
_________________________
Doormat_No_More
(Formerly Barnboy)
4 months after D-Day
1 year after D-Day
Two Years Later
Original thread lost in the forum purge of '09.


"The #1 reason why people give up so quickly is because they tend to look at how far they still have to go, rather than how far they've gotten."

Me, FBW(46) H, FWH (43)
M - 21 yrs & counting
D (20)
S (18)
S (16)
Surviving and Thriving since November 2010 thanks to MB!
My Recovery Thread: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538986#Post2538986
My Original Thread: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457141&page=1

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MelodyLane I will start reading those post today, thank you. We are back up to 18 to 20 hours UA now. FWW told me also last night that she sees from her time on MB that we have to start new habits. UA being the biggest.I pour over as many post from you guys as I can thanks for your help!


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Thank you SunnyDin for all your help.
What I mean by leading verses pulling is getting information or feed back from her about how she is feeling,what are her concerns. How well am I meeting her needs am I doing anything she does not like. I am on edge not hearing these things. All I get when I ask is '"Your doing it" That is a good thing I know I guess I need regular updates without having to "pull" it out of her.
I was blind sided by all of this originally and am still too gun shy to go for to long with out hearing how she is.
I don't want to allow her needs to be unmet ever again.
FWW will answer any specific questions with O&H, just never volunteers any thing.
As for her IC she has been going for 6 months and says it is to try and understand how her past shaped her personality.She is happy with what they have been doing.
They are suppose to bring me back when they find the answers. If this is what she needs and it does not cut into our UA I can live with it for a while longer.
I asked about the time line last night and it is about 3 more weeks.
Resent empty nesters UA is up to 18 to 20 hours.


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Originally Posted By: wle2
Thank you SunnyDin for all your help.
What I mean by leading verses pulling is getting information or feed back from her about how she is feeling,what are her concerns. How well am I meeting her needs am I doing anything she does not like. I am on edge not hearing these things. All I get when I ask is '"Your doing it" That is a good thing I know I guess I need regular updates without having to "pull" it out of her.
I was blind sided by all of this originally and am still too gun shy to go for to long with out hearing how she is.
I don't want to allow her needs to be unmet ever again.
FWW will answer any specific questions with O&H, just never volunteers any thing.
As for her IC she has been going for 6 months and says it is to try and understand how her past shaped her personality.She is happy with what they have been doing.
They are suppose to bring me back when they find the answers. If this is what she needs and it does not cut into our UA I can live with it for a while longer.
I asked about the time line last night and it is about 3 more weeks.
Resent empty nesters UA is up to 18 to 20 hours.


Was your wife one that kept her feelings close to the vest pre-Dday, WLE? Have you told her that you wish for her to speak up rather than you having to ask?

Again, good communication techniques can help here. Your wife needs to understand that it's helpful to you when she reaffirms where you are doing things right. It not only gives you a sense of reassurance but can be a way that she can meet the need of admiration for you. Those "I love it when you..." statements mentioned above should be used from her to you as well as you to her. If she says to you, "I love it when you bring me coffee in the morning," it shows appreciation for your efforts.

I think if your wife can see this as a way to meet your needs, she might open up a bit more. Remember - this need meeting stuff is a two way street. This is what's so great about the MB program: you learn a common language that takes the guesswork out of things.

Before MB, I would try hard to convey my feelings and for H to "get it" and it was hit or miss. Now, because we have these principles and terms to use, I don't have to go into a 15 minute filibuster; I can tell him succinctly, in a way where he knows what actions to take. It's awesome! This is also where all those worksheets come in. You guys have done all the questionnaires, right? It's important that she not only reads here and understands that you need new habits in the marriage, but that she is as committed as you are to making your marriage exceptional.

As for the IC, it's commendable that your wife wants help to figure some things out. What concerns me is that so many times, counselors spend too much time digging around in the past rather than looking for solutions for the present and future. I've been to IC myself and I know what I experienced: there are some really good counselors out there that focus on behavior modification. There are also many who cause more damage than good! Your wife's personality wasn't the cause of the affair, I hope you both know this. The cause was bad boundaries around members of the opposite sex.

Good job on the UA time! Keep it at or above the 20 hour mark when you are feeling uneasy in any way. Find some new things that the two of you can enjoy together.


"The #1 reason why people give up so quickly is because they tend to look at how far they still have to go, rather than how far they've gotten."

Me, FBW(46) H, FWH (43)
M - 21 yrs & counting
D (20)
S (18)
S (16)
Surviving and Thriving since November 2010 thanks to MB!
My Recovery Thread: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538986#Post2538986
My Original Thread: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457141&page=1

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Originally Posted By: SunnyDinTX
[quote=wle2]Thank you SunnyDin for all your help.
What I mean by leading verses pulling is getting information or feed back from her about how she is feeling,what are her concerns. How well am I meeting her needs am I doing anything she does not like. I am on edge not hearing these things. All I get when I ask is '"Your doing it" That is a good thing I know I guess I need regular updates without having to "pull" it out of her.
I was blind sided by all of this originally and am still too gun shy to go for to long with out hearing how she is.
I don't want to allow her needs to be unmet ever again.
FWW will answer any specific questions with O&H, just never volunteers any thing.
As for her IC she has been going for 6 months and says it is to try and understand how her past shaped her personality.She is happy with what they have been doing.
They are suppose to bring me back when they find the answers. If this is what she needs and it does not cut into our UA I can live with it for a while longer.
I asked about the time line last night and it is about 3 more weeks.
Resent empty nesters UA is up to 18 to 20 hours.


Was your wife one that kept her feelings close to the vest pre-Dday, WLE? Have you told her that you wish for her to speak up rather than you having to ask?

Again, good communication techniques can help here. Your wife needs to understand that it's helpful to you when she reaffirms where you are doing things right. It not only gives you a sense of reassurance but can be a way that she can meet the need of admiration for you. Those "I love it when you..." statements mentioned above should be used from her to you as well as you to her. If she says to you, "I love it when you bring me coffee in the morning," it shows appreciation for your efforts.

I think if your wife can see this as a way to meet your needs, she might open up a bit more. Remember - this need meeting stuff is a two way street. This is what's so great about the MB program: you learn a common language that takes the guesswork out of things.

Before MB, I would try hard to convey my feelings and for H to "get it" and it was hit or miss. Now, because we have these principles and terms to use, I don't have to go into a 15 minute filibuster; I can tell him succinctly, in a way where he knows what actions to take. It's awesome! This is also where all those worksheets come in. You guys have done all the questionnaires, right? It's important that she not only reads here and understands that you need new habits in the marriage, but that she is as committed as you are to making your marriage exceptional.

As for the IC, it's commendable that your wife wants help to figure some things out. What concerns me is that so many times, counselors spend too much time digging around in the past rather than looking for solutions for the present and future. I've been to IC myself and I know what I experienced: there are some really good counselors out there that focus on behavior modification. There are also many who cause more damage than good! Your wife's personality wasn't the cause of the affair, I hope you both know this. The cause was bad boundaries around members of the opposite sex.

Good job on the UA time! Keep it at or above the 20 hour mark when you are feeling uneasy in any way. Find some new things that the two of you can enjoy together.
First time FWW let me know how she felt before D-day was the day she told me wanted a divorce. I have tried to rephrase the requests to be more direct.
I fully understand that FWW completely owns her A but the failed M is 50% my fault.It also helps me to work diligently on meeting her EN's so my mind does not fly down dark roads.
FWW has a grasp of the BC of MB and is trying to apply what she has learned so far.
I am her only RC we both had forgotten how much fun we used to have with each other. We are re-datingand it is a lot more fun than the slow death we were trapped in pre D-day!


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Have been re-reading about exposure.
M DD's, FWW's siblings still don't know.
Does the window for non-discussed exposure close?
Think FWW will do it with me if I asked her to.
Tired of caring this burden alone.


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wle2,

Tired of caring this burden alone.

Then expose and relieve yourself! You are not obligated to go through life going along with your WWs lies. That is torture.

And it is true that men have no support when it comes to the pain they suffer from infidelity.

God Bless
Gamma

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Thanks Gamma, I'm going too.
I need the pull no punches advice I get here!
Note to every body...
Follow the plan , DO NOT deviate!
It will slow you down if you don't.
If I could go back in time it wouldn't be to fix my MR mistakes now would it!


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Originally Posted By: wle2
Thanks Gamma, I'm going too.
I need the pull no punches advice I get here!
Note to every body...
Follow the plan , DO NOT deviate!
It will slow you down if you don't.
If I could go back in time it wouldn't be to fix my MR mistakes now would it!


Exactly...and this means BOTH of you need to be following the plan. Take a look at several of the latest posts on OldWarHorse's thread, pages 30-31 in particular.

It's good that your wife gets to know the basics of MB, but it really does take both of you to work it, in detail, for a dozen of reasons. It's been seen here time and time again that when one spouse is doing all the work and the other one is just going along for the ride, it isn't usually successful. You can lead, but both of you should be working diligently at learning what each other needs and what behaviors to avoid. If not, your Taker will not be happy!

As for exposure, yes - it is part of recovery. There has been much discussion on several threads of late how it is not just for busting up an A (which is a primary purpose) but also to garner support for the marriage. It accomplishes that in several ways. Accountability of the WS is a must; in fact, having to face others knowing this info is often the first step towards the WS coming to the state of a repentant heart. The BS needs the personal support as well; it IS a burden that is too heavy to carry alone.


"The #1 reason why people give up so quickly is because they tend to look at how far they still have to go, rather than how far they've gotten."

Me, FBW(46) H, FWH (43)
M - 21 yrs & counting
D (20)
S (18)
S (16)
Surviving and Thriving since November 2010 thanks to MB!
My Recovery Thread: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538986#Post2538986
My Original Thread: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457141&page=1

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