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The Lords Prayer say "Point out your spouse's faults so they will change so you can be happy" or does it say

...forgive us our trespasses,
as we forgive those who trespass against us

Ironic, since you do not sound very forgiving.

In this program, you are supposed to point out each others' faults, so that you can change to make your spouse happy.

Are you doing Marriage Builders?

Also, if you want to get into scripture, the Lord says "Husbands, love your wives as you love your own body." It doesn't say "Husbands, love your wives in a way that is convenient to you, and that requires no changes on your part."


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What to do with an Angry Husband

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The Lords Prayer say "Point out your spouse's faults so they will change so you can be happy" or does it say

...forgive us our trespasses,
as we forgive those who trespass against us
More scripture:
"If your brother or sister sins against you, go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over." Matthew 18:15


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What to do with an Angry Husband

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Below is an Instant Messenger conversation with my wife.
Looking for MBer opinions

Wife (Mar 19 11:12 AM): How do you think our weekend was? together, I mean. How do you feel about it?

Husband (Mar 19 11:12 AM): it was better than average. What do you think?

Wife (Mar 19 11:17 AM): Ya, I agree, it was better than average (considering what average has been for a while now)
I guess...I have some negative feelings that I need to get off my chest. Do you want me to tell you now, or later tonight

Husband (Mar 19 11:17 AM):now is better i think

Wife (Mar 19 11:18 AM): There were some good times...but I feel the good times was when I was putting the majority of the effort forth to meet your needs. There were a few times where I felt you were withdrawn (at the bar) and a few times were I completely disrespected how you acted

Husband (Mar 19 11:19 AM): oh?

Wife (Mar 19 11:21 AM): Does a basketball game (that you are able to pause) really take priority over your hurt nephew?

Husband (Mar 19 11:25 AM):not if you couldn't have helped him

Wife (Mar 19 11:26 AM): How would you feel if I decided that I was too busy talking or dancing with someone to help our hurt family member? That was a weak answer and it kind of disgusts me that you say that. Why would I want to be with someone like that?

Husband (Mar 19 11:27 AM): If someone was hurt and you asked for my help then I would help. At that moment I asked for your help so I could watch the game. Otherwise I would have gone outside to check on nephew. If you were overwhelmed then all you had to do was say no that you could not help and I would have gone outside.

Wife (Mar 19 11:28 AM):I really can't believe you. How could you be so heartless? I was blown away by hearing you say that....I was so blown away by seeing you and your Dad sit on your [censored] doing absolutely nothing to help because you would rather see the basketball game......that you could pause on DVR. I have no respect for that behavior at all.......absolutely none. But you think I should respect you anyway?

Husband (Mar 19 11:34 AM): I think we communicated about the situation and agreed on the course of action.

Wife (Mar 19 11:35 AM): How so? From what I remember....you sat on your [censored] watching the game while I ran out to see how hurt nephew was.....there was no communication what so ever except the obvious disappointed look I gave you as I ran outside to see what happened

ME: After son and niece told us about it I specifically asked you if you could check it out and you said yes

Wife (Mar 19 11:39 AM): If that is how you want to see the situation....then I guess you can see it whatever the way you want. I am letting you know that I was very disappointed in your actions. If you want to continue to excuse yourself as you always do....then go right ahead. But I will continue to have little to no respect for you.

Husband (Mar 19 11:39 AM): Thats not how I see it, that�s what I did. I asked you for your help.

Wife (Mar 19 11:40 AM): In a situation like that, that is NOT an excuse.

Husband (Mar 19 11:39 AM): I am not giving you excuses. If you couldn't help nephew or replied "no" then I would have gone outside.

Wife (Mar 19 11:41 AM): In a situation where I need to let the dog out, or grab something for your parents, or help the kids get a shoe on.....then yes. That is acceptable. But when our son runs in and lets us know nephew is hurt and you do NOTHING......yeah, that is an excuse. Honestly, seeing what you are writing and how you truly feel about this.......I don't even know what to say.... I don't know why I stay with you

Wife signs out of IM in emotional fit. Wife signs back in.

Wife (Mar 19 11:46 AM): Your heart is cold. I respect men who have love in their hearts for other people and animals. I don't see that very often from you.

Husband (Mar 19 11:47 AM): So you don't recall me asking for your help?
Wife (Mar 19 11:48 AM): No, I remember you telling the kids to ask me. My first instinct is to run out to find out about nephew.....not ask YOU to do it. Yours is too tell them to get me so you can watch your STUPID basketball game.

Husband (Mar 19 11:51 AM): I know it was hectic then so you probably don't recall I was out of my chair when we spoke about it.

Wife (Mar 19 11:52 AM): NO YOU WERE NOT!!!!!!!!!!!! YOU didnt move your [censored] off the damn couch. That is why I was SOOO disgusted by you. You are more interested in defending your actions than caring about how little respect I have for you. The bottom line is that it didn't really bother you that nephew was hurt.....it was more important to see the game. You had no way of knowing if nephew was knocked out on the ground outside.....you had no idea....and from what I believe, you didn't care all that much. You are proving that to me by your words and the way you are defending yourself. Most respected men would have not given a [censored] about the game and ran out to make sure that their nephew was ok. No.......not you!

Husband (Mar 19 12:02 PM):I'm sorry I acted disrespectful

Wife (Mar 19 12:03 PM): I want to believe you husband, but history tells me you are not telling me the truth. Its not just the way you acted that bothers me.....its how you really feel. Your lack of true empathy for people and animals.
It is not something that I will ever respect.

Husband (Mar 19 12:08 PM): Was that all you wanted to address?

Wife (Mar 19 12:10 PM): no, but I can tell by your response that you don't mean it. Thanks again for the NO response.
If you choose not to respond to what I said about wanting to believe you, but I don't....... than I have no other choice than to believe that we have made no progress in our marriage in the past few months.

Husband (Mar 19 12:14 PM):What can I say when you said it is something you will never respect?

Wife (Mar 19 12:15 PM):well saying nothing sure helps but you are right.....I can't make you truly care about other people, our family or animals. That has to come within.......and from what I see......you don't really care except about your needs

Wife (Mar 19 12:29 PM): I started this off by saying how I felt about a certain situation. Instead of looking at how you acted....you immediately defend your really crappy actions. A real man would have realized how selfish that looked and would have admitted his mistake. This is why I have very little respect for you. Everyone makes mistakes......everyone. Everyone can at some point can come off looking insensitive. Even me. Instead of trying to understand me, looking at how insensitive that you came off, and letting me know that you see how that looked and NOT wanting to be viewed that way ever again.... you just defend your actions. That is not a sign of a mature man who wants to be the best he can be. That is a sign of a selfish, and self-centered person.......

Husband (Mar 19 12:42 PM): I see what you are saying. Of course I don't want to appear insensitive.

Wife (Mar 19 12:45 PM): I don't want you to appear insensitive, but I also don't want you to BE insensitive. It may not come naturally to you, because you are a man, but you have the ability Chris. I have seen it. It really is whether you want it or you don't.

Husband (Mar 19 12:47 PM): ok thanks for letting me know, I will work on it.

Wife (Mar 19 12:50 PM): That answer would have been very well received in our first minute of this conversation. I hope you can see how all this could have been avoided. I am not saying give me fake responses...but if you would seek to understand how I felt about it, this did not have to get so ugly. I feel beaten down by this ONE issue......


God's goal for marriage: Become ONE! How? MBer methods.
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I think this is one of those situations where you just listen. Don't defend, don't justify. Just find out what she wants. She wants a man who will put people before some basket ball game.

Her delivery is poor, but it's pretty clear what she wants. She wanted you to help your nephew.

You can be 100% correct in your facts, perhaps even win the battle during the conversation. But at what cost?

Time for the POJA. Instead of arguing about who did what and what is in one another heart, negotiate an agreement.

Validate what she's saying. I.E. if I understand what you are saying, you are saying you wanted me to pause the game and check on my nephew. Is that correct?

Once you have the subject correct, then get down to negotiating an agreement. It might be something as simple as the one who notices someone needs help engages the other so you BOTH are responding.

I.E. DW, I don't always think of helping in the same ways you do. So can we agree that if you think I should help, then make a specific invitation, such as, DH, come with me to check on _______.

Focus on the behaviors, not the intentions. If she wants you to help, then she has may have to make a respectful request.

You can tell her she may be right, she probably notices these things more than you do, so you rely on her to bring these situations to your attention and provide good advice.

It may be too much to expect that you'll just automatically get out of your chair, pause the game and go. But if she asks, I think you can be ready to respond, side by side with her.

Focus on solutions, not who has the other's number. Solutions that work for both you and your W.

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Have you two looked into the MB program yet?

This is my opinion on your conversation: I feel like your wife is saying that she wants you to be engaged istead of checked-out and selfish. It was selfish of you to pass along the cry for help to her. I probably feel that way because my H was like that, thought nothing of passing all the work of children onto me so he could enjoy his relaxation time. Women naturally respond to children, as do checked-in men who do not feel entitled to ignore the kids.

What to do now: Start responding yourself to calls for attention that are made to you! Do not pass the buck on to her, you should only inquire for her assistance, not for her to take over and leave you out of it entirely. Tell her it was unfair and unmanly of you to put her in that position, you knew she would rush out there.

I agree with much of what EE says, but I think he missed the part where YOU were the recipient of the original call for help, and you simply sat there and hollared for your wife to answer your call.

Tell your wife to speak up early and often so that you can learn to be less selfish. That's what I had to do with my H, and now he jumps at children requests, even if we're both just lounging around. We are still working on some other things in this area, but I can tell you, effort scores major points to help overcome sporadic shortcomings. What my H did was apologize for not responding, made heroic efforts to be more aware and responsive instead of leaving it all to me, and in turn I quit resenting him for leaving it all to me and began to enjoy 'taking over' to give him relaxation time when he could just veg.


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Let me add that I don't watch tv normally. My wife is the one who consumes Idol, Bachelor/ette, Jersey Shore, Hills, Buffy, Angel, etc.

I was watching this particular game because it was my university alma mater. She knew that. I asked her to watch it with me. I invited my Dad over because he likes college hoops. I am not a sports freak at all. I could care less about 99% of it. I engage our children regularly. I would not leave kid duties to my spouse because I need to veg out. We have a 20 year old, 17 yr old, 10 yr old and a granddaughter and I am active with all of them as a grand/father. So this is not a pattern she is trying to get me to break for the last 10 years. It was a one off incident where I asked her to check on the injured child because this was a special event for me. Not to mention that we were put into this situation by my brother/sister in-law who dropped their children off at my house unbeknownst to me with zero communication to me.

I do laundry, clean kitchen, cook when needed, fix cars, pools, do taxes, etc. This is not about me being selfish or un-caring or insensitive.


God's goal for marriage: Become ONE! How? MBer methods.
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My answer to all of this is, so what?

This is about learning behaviors that will build a strong marriage. Justifying your perspective doesn't accomplish that.

Do you want to defend yourself or build a marriage? You can only choose one.

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She said: you don't really care except about your needs.

You ought to look at that, not from your perspective, but hers.

You threw something at her that you did not feel like responding to, and you knew she would help a kid. You were lazy and selfish. You can't be either in an MB marriage.


So, how much of MB do you know?


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I would also recommend POJAing special events where you want out of anything except being warned of a fire. I do not think, according your W's own words, that you are actually doing enough for her to offer it, so you will have to ask and respect if the answer is no.

I am guessing that since the boy's grandfather was in the room as well, that you come from a line of insensitive oblivious men. Good news is that you can rise above your raising!


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I know 90% of MBers.

I asked her to check on the injured child because this was a special event for me. She agreed. If she needed something otherwise she didn't communicate that. I was doing POJA, not being selfish.


God's goal for marriage: Become ONE! How? MBer methods.
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Are you really looking for 3rd party views, or only 3rd party views that agree with you?

You obviously didn't POJA. She resents the way things turned out.

Of, if I take you at your word and she enthusiastically agreed to this, she no longer agrees and by the POJA, you have to go back and re-negotiate.

So again, are you really looking for 3rd party views, or do you just want someone to agree with you?

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CWMI,
Your sarcasm is not appreciated. Your assumptions about my family heritage are insensitive and rude. Your interpretations of the facts are incorrect. This was my nephew. I am grandfather to another. It was my Dad with me, not the boy's grandfather.

When the children came in with news, I immediately addressed it with my spouse. I didn't ignore anything. I asked her for help. She agreed. If she would have communicated to me some other plan or her need, I would have gladly gone out to help. She didn't communicate verbally, instead she assumed me to be uncaring.


God's goal for marriage: Become ONE! How? MBer methods.
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EE,
How do we go back in time to renegotiate POJA?


God's goal for marriage: Become ONE! How? MBer methods.
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Also,
If she had been watching the season finale of ??? and an emergency arose with children, I would have been happy to take the lead without prompting, no big deal.


God's goal for marriage: Become ONE! How? MBer methods.
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It was your brother's child? Your father is not your brother's father? So not your brother's children's grandfather?

Just trying to figure out the family tree. It is helpful if you include things like 'half-brother' in descriptions so we know if people listed as relatives don't include other listed relatives as family...not that that would be an excuse to ignore a hurting child.


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CWMI, Please don't reply to my thread anymore.


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Originally Posted by bigpicture
Wife (Mar 19 11:21 AM): Does a basketball game (that you are able to pause) really take priority over your hurt nephew?

You should have stopped right there.

She was being mildly disrespectful here, to be sure. But she is also giving you valid information (a complaint), and if you'd take and act on that information, she'd become much happier with you, and you'd have a happier marriage.

Here's Dr. Harley's advice for this situation:

Originally Posted by Dr. Harley
But even though she made an abusive remark, you can end the cycle of abuse before it begins if you don't accelerate negativity (that means, matching her abuse with abuse of your own). What you should do is ignore the abuse on her side, and in your own mind re-translate what she said to be "I would prefer it if you would dry the dishes this way, instead of the way you are drying them."

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5067b_qa.html

So even though your wife was a little disrespectful, she is cluing you in to something extremely important: YOUR BEHAVIOR IS MAKING IT HARD FOR HER TO ADMIRE YOU. Reword her complaint as follows: "When you don't put games on television aside to help with children in the family, it destroys the feelings of admiration I have for you." If you are like most men, admiration is an important emotional need for you, so this is valuable information, because women find it harder to meet men's emotional needs unless men make the circumstances just right. She is telling you how to make the circumstances just right.

If you want a HAPPY marriage, this is what you have to do.

The rest of the conversation is just the escalation of conflict, which is always a great way to make massive love bank withdrawals.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Originally Posted by bigpicture
I know 90% of MBers.

I asked her to check on the injured child because this was a special event for me. She agreed. If she needed something otherwise she didn't communicate that. I was doing POJA, not being selfish.

Okay, so she tried it your way, and found out that that won't work for her. So, from now on, no more arrangements where you can't be interrupted. You now know she doesn't like it, so unless you can think of some new circumstance in which she would be enthusiastic about the idea, don't make the request, or she will feel like you are demanding; she will feel pressure to cave and capitulate to this situation that she clearly doesn't like.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Originally Posted by bigpicture
I know 90% of MBers.

I asked her to check on the injured child because this was a special event for me. She agreed. If she needed something otherwise she didn't communicate that. I was doing POJA, not being selfish.

Have you ever considered using MArriage Builders? It is clear to me that you don't care very much about your wife's complaints and I am sure she rightly sees that too;. When your wife tells you something upsets her it is an opportunity for you to STOP doing the thing that upsets her. Instead, you make excuses and justifications for why it is ok that you did that. THAT APPROACH MISSES THE POINT.

What you are doing is like arguing with the bank who sends you an overdraft notice. What happens if you don't GET the notice? That is what your wife did. She is notifying you of an OVERDRAFT in your bank account. Arguing with her will not resolve the overdraft.

The POINT is that your behavior is very upsetting to her and if you want to stop upsetting her then you need to stop it. I would be just as disgusted if some man sat on his [censored] and watched a stupid game when a child was hurt. It would reflect a very uncaring person. That is how she views it. What you did then caused huge lovebank withdrawals and then your RESPONSE made it even worse when you played dodgeball with her.

Do you want your wife to be in love with you? Or do you care?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by bigpicture
EE,
How do we go back in time to renegotiate POJA?

You don't go back in time. If any person is unhappy with the agreement, the deal is OFF. She told you that deal was off. She explained this to you. She never expected that her nephew was going to get hurt when that deal was made and is expressing her disatisfaction with your behavior.

And all you had to do was LEARN from what she said in order to mitigate the situation, but you didn't. You made the situation worse.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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