Also, my H will for SURE request that I have an EP about male friends. I have historically always had male friends. I have male friends that I have known since the day I was born, literally, and a pretty close male friend from my college yrs. Just get along better with boys for the most part. Most of these long term very platonic friendships do not seem to bother H in the least, but I do have some that do bother him. Obviously those need to GO, I am fully prepared for that. Most of the ones that bother him do so for a good reason, as in, some sort of attraction level or XBF status, etc. Should I just rely on him to tell me what friends I have to go NC with? Seriously I have friends from elementary school that I still occasionally talk to, as long as I follow the EP's set above as in not meeting with them without H, never talking about M with them, etc. which should not be hard because these are not close friends by any means, do I need to go NC with them? And if for some reason H ever feels uncomfortable with anyone, go NC no questions asked. Or something like that. I don't want him to feel uncomfortable or have anything further damage trust, of course NONE of those relationships are worth that, but if he doesn't care about some of them then do I need to get rid of them? How do I phrase this whole thing in an EP, or do I ask him how HE wants me to phrase it?

Yes, if you give 100percent, you can leave without regrets. Be careful about venting to your husband about shortcomings, I'm quickly learning it can turn into LB's if to frequent.

TV is an idiot box. Pre-affair I watched 2-3 hours a day, now 2-3 hours a week. Too much stuff to do with family and spouse for tv and I only have one kid.

Thanks for the reminder. I believe I am a HUGE LBer that way. Mostly because I like to 'lay the cards on the table' so if I think it I must say it. Not always in a mean way (sometimes) but more in a matter of fact way I guess. But I do think it makes H feel like there is always something.

This is (almost) the same as Pre-Nup agreement.... except you are already married, so it's Post marriage....

My Post-Nup gave my wife reason to believe and have faith in our marriage again. I agreed, in the event of any future infidelity, that my wife would receive 100% cash value of my/our entire asset portfolio. It set up custody arrangements and alimony for life as some of the highlights..... The wording is very particular and requires good attorneys. This is not necessary in every marriage, but in our case, due to the amount of damage I created, it was a must


YES, you can add these things to your one time list of EP's.


I had moved into a condo during my A, furnished & equipped it completely. Upon reconciling, as advised by dear friends here on the forums, we decided to have some people come in and take everything to Goodwill. We kept nothing! We didn't want anything that could act as a trigger. Sold all the vehicles we owned at that time as well. These decisions, and many other similar ones, saved our marriage.

Well, NG hasn't created a stir on MB in a while, so it's time....

UW, stop being a dilettante in your recovery. You can't "ease" your way into this exercise. Dive in and start working, okay?

Some things that really leap out at me:

Your favorite vs his favorite hobby: If there are impediments in both cases, find a third, or fourth, pasttime.

Date night issues: Grammy and Grampy live too far away? That's why God created babysitters, or even better, cooperative child-care situations (your date-weekend, followed by their date-weekend). Doable in your circle? Don't know, but more pertinently, neither do you.

Your oh-so-innocent male friends: Oh, boy! You KNOW they irritate your W/B-H, you know they have to go, so you're waiting for WHAT, exactly? What we should be reading is "I dumped those impediments weeks ago."

Fix these three, and I'll invest the time to help you with some others.

PS: What's another word for a SAHM Mom who marginally(?) does housework? A major taker!

Oh now NG don't be so harsh on me about this housework thing. I am a stay at home MOM...not stay at home HOUSECLEANER. Just to clarify what SAHM stands for. And, for the record, I suck at the housecleaning part. I am very, very open and honest about that! Everyone has their gifts, housecleaning is not mine, doesn't make me a bad mom, just a bad housekeeper. And I'm not sure how that makes me a major taker, perhaps you can explain that to me.

How am I easing my way in. I am spending hours a day reading through the MB principles and forums and taking notes on a daily basis of my daily 'to do's' and asking for advice from the experts. I am not trying to excuse myself of anything, just get clarity on what needs to change and what doesn't.

I said I would work on getting babysitters (have found one). And plan date nights (already on the calender). And plan lunch dates (I will go and do that RIGHT NOW). I have asked questions and made to do lists and implemented on everything I have been advised here. Not sure why you think I am skirting things.

Male friends. My question was if I have to NC ALL male friends, or just ones that H is uncomfortable with. I am fully prepared to NC male friends that he is uncomfortable with. I will do it NOW in fact.

So if you have more to tell me please do. I am ready to dive.

PS I had to look up 2 words in your post to see what they meant. So thank you for that vocabulary education.

OK I went through my phone and computer and FB and deleted all contact info for male friends who I know H has a problem with, which was really only a couple. One XBF who I haven't spoken to in months. And one other recent friend who H has just never felt right about. I also deleted all contact info for anyone who I really had no reason to contact, or cared if they were gone, or thought that H doesn't know who this is and it might give him cause to wonder. The only males I have contact info now are mutual friends from our hobbies, or contacts for kids friends, neighbors, etc. I will let H go through and see if there is anyone else he would like to delete and have at it though too. And, will ask him how to block people on my phone if there is anyone he would like me to actually block.

What else.

unwritten, only the ones that H is "uncomfortable with"? No, ALL opposite sex friendships (for both of you) must go. This is why you have crossed the line several times...

Have you read Dr Harley's article on this topic? It is under the Articles section of the website.

Be careful NG!

My wife is a SAHM too (MOM being the key word) Not Paid household servant. I take far more than she does in the domestic support arena (if we actually kept score)!

Dr. H has a few thoughts about this subject starting here;
Link to letters about domestic responsibilities

A BAD housekeeper is someone who cannot get the house (dishes, laundry, whatever) clean efficiently. Someone who cannot get the same task done at all, is not bad, just disinterested and uncommitted. (And I know what a SAHM is - our children enjoyed that glorious arrangement for about ten years.) I also would point out that being home provides proximity and immediate access to "short duration" opportunities to address cleaning issues - vacuum a room, mop a floor. So, if DS is on your spouse's EN short-list - your move!

You - today - eliminated the irritant male friends? GOOD!

You're working on child-care solutions? GOOD - when you firm them up, and implement them.

You failed to address the hobby issue.

UW, you have the ability to address these things every day. "Buying in" to the MB practices is doing just that.

But I made you an offer, and stand by it. What is the next (most impervious?) obstruction to your making progress?

Well, stop sucking at it. That is not an acceptable attitude. Part of the deal involved in being SAHM is keeping the environment clean and tidy for your children - it is actually part of taking care of them - and for your H, who supports you financially so that you can stay at home. Make the home hygienic, pleasant and welcoming.

Work out a daily and weekly timetable so that laundry is done, beds are first aired and then made, clutter is picked up and dishes washed. Additionally, you need to vacuum or wash floors, and dust, but not all rooms, and not every day.

I believe the website flylady will give you tips to keep on track. Do something. "I suck" simply is not acceptable.

unwritten, I anticipate that you will be posting that you will "give up" all opposite sex friendships now that it has been suggested

but

what you have written above is alarming to me. This demonstrates that you DO NOT understand how important it is to NOT allow men to meet your ENs, especially intimate conversation. Regardless of whether you or your H deem them a threat or not.

Thanks for your response SQ. I will read it now. I feel like I am going to take heat for having contact with ANY male at any time. Friendships/people I have regular communication with/people I communicate with by phone or text or more personal ways/etc. I completely understand. But I have lots and lots of 'contacts' more or less that I do not do these things with. And mutual friends through our hobbies, phone contact for couples we know, neighbors, ...I understand that because I had EA's these ALL can be threats. But if I deleted every one of these I would have no info for anyone to contact to come over for a bbq, is my kid over there playing... I really am not trying to justify having men in my life I am just saying I have neighbors who I consider friends but I also rely on them to ask them to pick up my mail while I'm gone...do I need to get rid of contact for ALL those people, just because they are men.

OK going to read this article.

Thank you HPB for defending us SAHM's!!! But, I did do some thinking on why exactly this particular NG comment made my blood boil. As much as I cringe to say it there is some TRUTH to it. Food for thought on my part. Darn you NG for that forced self reflection!

You are exagerating it and using qualifiers as a way to... throw a temper tantrum.


Yes, you musn't spend time with ANY male who is not; your husband, your blood relation, or present at any time when your husband is not.

Many a wayward wife has a story that starts with "I always had mostly male friends..."

Protect yourself, protect your marriage. You had mostly male friends because you like men. So did my wife. She had an affair.


I LOVE women. I did NOT have an affair. B-U-T, I discovered that after my wife's infidelity, I was more vulnerable... and so I follow EP's myself. Not to mention, it's the right thing to do for my marriage.


Temper tantrums don't change truth.

Oh goodness...ok you got me I am totally disinterested and uncommitted. Totally. Sheesh just so you all know I'm not sitting in a house from the hoarder show or anything. Just have a tad bit of undiagnosed ADD and have a hard time staying focused. Tad bit disorganized. And for SURE need to get better at holding others accountable, I try to do everything for everyone and not make them responsible for themselves, which overwhelms me. And I guess that kindof is a bad mother trait too.

Hobby issue. I failed to address it because I wasn't seeing this as an issue. I TOTALLY agree with the advice on how to schedule time 1) marriage 2) family 3) self hobbies. Once that is done I don't see the issue. And like I said one of our primary hobbies right now is a shared hobby that should count toward our time and also meet H's RC need. And many of our others are family hobbies. What am I not seeing here.

OK now I have to go look up impervious...OH I guess my next most impervious obstruction is H. Can't really force him to follow through with any of these things. Can serve my EP's to myself, sit at lunch by myself, go to dinner by myself...although he says all the right words he hasn't shown a lot of initiative and cringes every time I say we need to do some of our MB work, etc. So, guess that is my main leftover hurdle.

Although he did log in and read my thread today, which, was shocking to say the least.

You are totally right SC! I need to do better. But for the record, it is like making you a mechanic and when you struggle because you are not mechanical, telling to just stop using that as an excuse. We are all just meant to be good at different things, and I am really just not good at it. If you are familiar with the Fly Lady, who totally gets it because she has been a woman like me, and has many women like me as 'Fly Baby's', you will understand that some of us are just not good at this. I have tried lists, jars, excel spreadsheets, daily and weekly lists, organizers, online calenders, etc etc etc and have been a 'fly baby' for years, to try and be more organized. I have struggled with it for years. Just like I am not good at sending cards at birthdays, it is not my forte. I am old enough to recognize that I have things I am good at and things that I'm not and accept that. But, I can do BETTER. I can INVEST more than I do, that is what I will strive to do.

Thank you SQ. I do understand. I will not lie and say that I have not had a habit of getting those EN's met elsewhere, in all honesty I have had male friends my whole life and have always had IC with them, I really didn't even think of that as any kind of EA any more than I thought of having IC with a girlfriend as an EA. It is only when there was some sort of attraction on either side, or any kind of flirting or sexual content that I thought it inappropriate and went NC. And in 99% of my male relationships that has NEVER been an issue, nor can I believe it to ever be an issue, but I get what you are saying that this is a weakness and I need to not even have the opportunity for it.

I just get along better with men. And I know that is going to sound like I am trying to find a way to keep having men in my life so I can get my needs met by them, its not. I am not. I am just saying that I hung out with boys when I was a kid, have male friends from college, have ALWAYS had more male friendships than female friendships. And 99% of them have been platonic. I will give up whatever I need to, but it will be kindof life changing for me. That is why you see me bucking the system a little here. I want a good marriage, I want my H to be the only man meeting my needs, I know what I need to do to get there. Have no OPPORTUNITY for any other man to meet my needs. Thats what you are saying yes?

Can't really force him to follow through with any of these things.

Okay, YOU'RE here. We'll work on the basis that you're not here simply to escape housework (Smile! Just a joke!).

So, we want to get hubby to get with the program and form a tight marital partnership, right? Well, watch the video below:

[video:youtube][/video]

Not surprisingly, only one of the pair (the taller one) had a vision of what this would eventually look like. Selling the other partner on the desirability of the program was called for.

Tonka enjoyed the liver treat incentives while training. Your hubby - probably not so much! But you have lived with him long enough to understand him. Give him your vision of what the marriage you want holds in store.